The Maracana Cluster

[DannyelBrazil]

^^No, a way must be sought to get the ceremonies off the Mario Filho and into the athletics venue. A question has been left unanswered, Why was Maracana even chosen as Olympic ceremonies venue, anyway?

Because Maracana is one of the biggest icons of Brazil, one of the most famous stadiums in the world. After Corcovado and Sugar Loaf is the proud of Cariocas and Brazilian. It's a full meaning venue for Brazil and maybe for all South America since many South American great moments of sports were held there.

[Dinhu4ever]

Because Maracana is one of the biggest icons of Brazil, one of the most famous stadiums in the world. After Corcovado and Sugar Loaf is the proud of Cariocas and Brazilian. It's a full meaning venue for Brazil and maybe for all South America since many South American great moments of sports were held there.

Maracanã is also 30,000 seats larger than JHOS and that's a big draw when you're trying to earn money. Given that the ceremonies are the highest priced events in the OG, those seats can generate a much welcomed income. Not that I believe the organizers are expecting to break even, but still. It's also better located and has more transport options than JHOS currently have (to be honest, they simply built the stadium there without improving the transport network around it. Argh, so much for the trouble of bringing it to the neighborhood). I'm not fond of the idea of using Maracanã as the venue for the OC and CC but I can see the logic behind the choice.

[Sir Rols]

Exactly, it's be like London hosting the Olympics and not using Wembley for the ceremonies ... oh, sorry

Anyway, I've got no problem with Maracana. Traditions are fine, but the games also have to be able to evolve, and incorporate new traditions.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Sir Roltel

[Rob2012]

I'm not fond of the idea of using Maracanã as the venue for the OC and CC but I can see the logic behind the choice.

I think that's the position I'm coming round to as well. I'm not fond and never was fond of this idea during the bid, but it's been approved and I'm sure Brazil will do a good job. It'll be intriguing to see how the dynamic between the two stadiums plays out, and which is ultimately remembered more as the "Rio Olympic stadium" in the decades to come. Will it be what happens on the track or during the ceremonies which endures more when we look back on the Games?

Exactly, it's be like London hosting the Olympics and not using Wembley for the ceremonies ... oh, sorry

Not a great comparison. Wembley is only 10,000 seats bigger than the Olympic Stadium in London. Maracanã is, of course, a massive 30,000 seats larger than JHOS. But insofar as debunking the argument that Maracanã should host the ceremonies because of its place in Brazilian sporting history that is indeed a good comparison.

I'm now happy enough to accept the point of view that for logistics and number of spectators, Maracanã is better. I wouldn't really be willing to accept the break in tradition solely because of Maracanã special place in Brazilians' hearts however. That's not a good enough reason by itself for me.

[DannyelBrazil]

I'm now happy enough to accept the point of view that for logistics and number of spectators, Maracanã is better. I wouldn't really be willing to accept the break in tradition solely because of Maracanã special place in Brazilians' hearts however. That's not a good enough reason by itself for me.

I was hopefull about the a new and bigger (maybe big as Maracana) Olympic Stadium in Barra, but IOC DOES NOT want to change a word in Rio bid project for the games. So, it will be Maracana.

Anyway, Rio city can not afford a new huge stadium since, major soccer clubs in city already have where to play.

[OneTimeOnly]

I was hopefull about the a new and bigger (maybe big as Maracana) Olympic Stadium in Barra, but IOC DOES NOT want to change a word in Rio bid project for the games.

That's because the IOC knows how fragile Brazil hosting is anyway. They figure you've already got your hands too full as it is.

Oh excuse me, I should have said "Rio", not Brazil.

[DannyelBrazil]

That's because the IOC knows how fragile Brazil hosting is anyway. They figure you've already got your hands too full as it is.

Oh excuse me, I should have said "Rio", not Brazil.

How old are you? 7?

I saw how IOC thinks Brazil or should I say Rio is fragile: Rio 66 x 32 Rich European capital

Get a life, OTO! LOL

Edited May 23, 2010 by DannyelBrazil

[OneTimeOnly]

Because Maracana is one of the biggest icons of Brazil, one of the most famous stadiums in the world. After Corcovado and Sugar Loaf is the proud of Cariocas and Brazilian. It's a full meaning venue for Brazil and maybe for all South America since many South American great moments of sports were held there.

^^Totally worthless and completely invalid reasons.

Maracanã is also 30,000 seats larger than JHOS and that's a big draw when you're trying to earn money. Given that the ceremonies are the highest priced events in the OG, those seats can generate a much welcomed income. Not that I believe the organizers are expecting to break even, but still. It's also better located and has more transport options than JHOS currently have (to be honest, they simply built the stadium there without improving the transport network around it. Argh, so much for the trouble of bringing it to the neighborhood). I'm not fond of the idea of using Maracanã as the venue for the OC and CC but I can see the logic behind the choice.

^^Reasons that have logic behind them, even though I despise the idea.

It'll be intriguing to see how the dynamic between the two stadiums plays out, and which is ultimately remembered more as the "Rio Olympic stadium" in the decades to come. Will it be what happens on the track or during the ceremonies which endures more when we look back on the Games?

Neither. Rio has muddled it, but that was their own doing. It will be known as the games that didn't really have a true Olympic stadium.

But insofar as debunking the argument that Maracanã should host the ceremonies because of its place in Brazilian sporting history that is indeed a good comparison.

<snip>

I wouldn't really be willing to accept the break in tradition solely because of Maracanã special place in Brazilians' hearts however. That's not a good enough reason by itself for me.

I agree with RobH.

[DannyelBrazil]

Neither. Rio has muddled it, but that was their own doing. It will be known as the games that didn't really have a true Olympic stadium.

You're funny, OTO, I have to say it... At least, you're funny...

A city with two big stadiums taking part of the Olympic Games will be known as the host city without a true Olympic Stadium??? LOL

And even if this happen (maybe only few newyorkers living in San Francisco will think like it) it ways better than being known by having a Terrorist Attack in the Olympic Park...

Edited May 23, 2010 by DannyelBrazil

[OneTimeOnly]

You're funny, OTO, I have to say it... At least, you're funny...

A city with two big stadiums taking part of the Olympic Games will be known as the host city without a true Olympic Stadium??? LOL

And even if this happen (maybe only few newyorkers living in San Francisco will think like it) it ways better than being known by having a Terrorist Attack in the Olympic Park...

Atlanta was complete ****, you're absolutely right. But hey, imagine how Munich must feel then.

Just remember, you brought that up, not me.

P.S. I don't live in San Francisco.

P.P.S. When you have ONE stadium hosting all of the Athletics competitions and the OC's and CC's and is also the home of the cauldron, then you will have a true Olympic Stadium.

[DannyelBrazil]

Atlanta was complete ****, you're absolutely right. But hey, imagine how Munich must feel then.

Just remember, you brought that up, not me.

P.S. I don't live in San Francisco.

P.P.S. When you have ONE stadium hosting all of the Athletics competitions and the OC's and CC's and is also the home of the cauldron, then you will have a true Olympic Stadium.

I'm almost sure it's not up to you to state that some stadium is truly Olympic or not... Almost sure...

Sometime I think your biggest dream is to be the IOC president... But, wake up, the nearest you can get from this is run the NY Marathon

About, SF, whatever... You have a pic of SF, which indeed is beautiful, so you probably like the city, maybe the only thing you like in the entire universe...

Edited May 23, 2010 by DannyelBrazil

[OneTimeOnly]

Sometime I think your biggest dream is to be the IOC president...

That is Baron's dream. Not mine.

[DannyelBrazil]

That is Baron's dream. Not mine.

Well, he's much better prepared to handle it than you... Imagine a press conference with you!!! LOL

A press interview with Baron would be sarcastic, at least.

[OneTimeOnly]

Well, he's much better prepared to handle it than you... Imagine a press conference with you!!! LOL

A press interview with Baron would be sarcastic, at least.

Yeah, uh, I don't want it.

[DannyelBrazil]

Yeah, uh, I don't want it.

Ok, good talking for today, as always (sarcastic mode one) it was a pleasure to talk to you (sarcastic mode off).

Now time to be something more usefull...

Take care, go see the sunset in the window, maybe seeing it, you can be less bitter.

[OneTimeOnly]

About, SF, whatever... You have a pic of SF, which indeed is beautiful, so you probably like the city, maybe the only thing you like in the entire universe...

Yeah I like San Francisco. The local city politics there are horrible, though.

I like the Birds Nest.

I like the water cube.

I like Beijings OC's.

I liked Athens' OC.

I like the medal ceremony music from L.A. '84 (now an Olympic classic)

I like Cadbury chocolate.

I Like Bossa Nova.

I like Ocean Liners/Cruise Ships.

I like train travel.

I love Apple/Macs.

I love Central Park.

I like riding the subway.

I love California (and miss it).

I like Tahiti, Moorea, and Bora Bora.

I like Polynesian Tropical Islands.

I love swimming.

I love the aquatic sports.

I love Disneyland, Disneyland Paris, Tokyo Disney Sea.

I love the Polynesian Resort at WDW (though it's way overpriced).

I love restaurants and food.

I love wine: Pinot Noir, Merlot, and Syrah, in that order, are my favorites.

...and more.

There are lots of things I like.

[DannyelBrazil]

Yeah I like San Francisco. The local city politics there are horrible, though.

I like the Birds Nest.

(...)

...and more.

There are lots of things I like.

You'd be surprised if I say I like 70%+ the things you said you like in your post...

What I don't like is the way you point your opinion here... This is a common thought between the members here. You could be a interesting participant of this forum, since you behave better.

Have you already noticed that you fight with me but we have the very same opinion about the ceremonies in Rio???

Make a reflection about your behaviour here... You can make it better.

Anyway, it's up to you.

[Jim856796]

Because Maracana is one of the biggest icons of Brazil, one of the most famous stadiums in the world. After Corcovado and Sugar Loaf is the proud of Cariocas and Brazilian. It's a full meaning venue for Brazil and maybe for all South America since many South American great moments of sports were held there.

I don't care how big of an icon the Mario Filho is. The Mario Filho hosts ceremonies, then the 2016 Olympics will go down in history as the worst Summer Olympics ever. If the Joao Havelange hosts the ceremonies (exclusive venue for Athletics my foot), we'd all be very happy. If not, then an undisputed main Olympic Stadium in Rio de Janeiro is meaningless. It's like Barcelona using Camp Nou for the ceremonies instead of the Montjuic Stadium in 1992. The same goes for the Paralympics, but instead of leaving the Maracana empty-handed, let it host the medal ceremonies. (it may apply for the Olympics as well). And no, a newly-built Olympic Stadium will not be in the Barra cluster.

Rio and Barcelona (and Rio and Mexico City as well) could possibly have many similarities.

[DannyelBrazil]

I don't care how big of an icon the Mario Filho is. The Mario Filho hosts ceremonies, then the 2016 Olympics will go down in history as the worst Summer Olympics ever. If the Joao Havelange hosts the ceremonies (exclusive venue for Athletics my foot), we'd all be very happy. If not, then an undisputed main Olympic Stadium in Rio de Janeiro is meaningless. It's like Barcelona using Camp Nou for the ceremonies instead of the Montjuic Stadium in 1992. The same goes for the Paralympics, but instead of leaving the Maracana empty-handed, let it host the medal ceremonies. (it may apply for the Olympics as well). And no, a newly-built Olympic Stadium will not be in the Barra cluster.

Rio and Barcelona (and Rio and Mexico City as well) could possibly have many similarities.

The thing we don't know is that Maracana issue can open a precedent for future host cities make two stadiums logistic as Rio will do.

If we see it by other perspective, Vancouver (even being an Winter Games) did it first... I don't know how much IOC is interested in a stadium exclusively for ceremonies.

Anyway, Rio will be test for this new way of doing things. I agree with you that if Maracana-two-stadium-thing won't work well, this will be never repeated and Rio will go down in history as the worst ever, but think otherwise, if logistics works well... Maybe a new standard can be set.

[DannyelBrazil]

To everybody here.

Maybe I took the icon thing of Maracana too deeply.

Many other Brazilians posted here other reasons for choosing Maracana as ceremonies stadiums, and some agreed with those arguments even our beloved "friend" OTO.

I do prefer a traditional Olympic way of doing things. I prefer ceremonies in Joao Havelange Olympic Stadium. Period.

But it's not up to me this decision and IOC already made theirs.

I'm so tired of reading a lot of bullshit about this issue here. Please!

You guys need to see a Rio map, read a little about Maracana, and better informed, so you guys will see that Maracana have other atributes we never discussed here and other things about Rio discussed here are totally out of line...

Let's focus in Maracana:

For TV broadcasting, Maracana is nearby Corcovado Mt. and many takes of Christ and the stadium can be done live, for the entire world, it's a dream for broadcasters. For those from nations mad for soccer (admitedely, the biggest part of the world), Maracana is a meaningful stadium, many newspapers around the world every single time calls Maracana as mythic. And probably it can be, somehow.

I understand that many people here are against Maracana hosting the ceremonies (believe me) me included. But this way of "worst host ever", "a stupid mistake", "Brazis are thinking they can change the traditions" is a too radical way to discuss this issue.

First of all: IOC approved, as told it here many times, this idea come from IAAF that always wished a exclusive venue for athletics. Rio made a economic-worthÿ proposal since Athletics itself don't attract the same public as the ceremonies attracts.

The proposal was accepted by IOC during bid process, otherwise, probably Rio would change its ceremonies to JH OS, since the "iconic" Maracana is for sure less important than Rio's bid.

IOC, maybe, is trying something new, as London tried a weird-crazy logo and mascot. And as we seen, the simplicity of London's logo is now a rule inside the Olympic Movement (I don't like it either, but I can live with it). Rio made a proposal that can be done, as Baron (a guy who worked in OC Atlanta 96) pointed many times.

About the behaviours:

I prefered a new host for 2012, like Madrid, Istambul or, of course, Rio, but London was chosen and I don't need to be a radical against London because of it.

Indeed, now I'm happy they won. It's a world class city, it seems it will be great games, full of british charm.

I don't like the mascots for 2012 either, they have only one eye... But, maybe it's a reference for the ferris wheel in Downtown London, the big eye (I don't remember the exact name).

We should know better a city to discuss about it.

So, can we discuss here in better way? Without offensive statements?

Edited May 24, 2010 by DannyelBrazil

[OneTimeOnly]

this idea come from IAAF that always wished a exclusive venue for athletics. Rio made a economic-worthÿ proposal since Athletics itself don't attract the same public as the ceremonies attracts.

Since when and why would the IAAF not care for the fact that the ceremonies were held in the same stadium as the Athletics competitions?

[OneTimeOnly]

The thing we don't know is that Maracana issue can open a precedent for future host cities make two stadiums logistic as Rio will do.

Let's hope not.

If we see it by other perspective, Vancouver (even being an Winter Games) did it first... I don't know how much IOC is interested in a stadium exclusively for ceremonies.

What do you mean "Vancouver did it first"? There was only one stadium.

if logistics works well... Maybe a new standard can be set.

Once again, let's hope not.

[DannyelBrazil]

Since when and why would the IAAF not care for the fact that the ceremonies were held in the same stadium as the Athletics competitions?

Already said here. IAAF always complains that many things should be done in a short period time after the ceremonies and before the athletics competitions itself. Don't you remember the "swimming pool" (they used in OC) issue in Athens 2004???

What do you mean "Vancouver did it first"? There was only one stadium.

But two cauldrons in two different places. The first time they used a indoor stadium for the ceremonies (IOC approved too!!!!)

Let's hope not... But it's not up to us this decision. And if logistics works well, this have serious chance to be done again in a future host...

The main subject here is: IOC will change the traditions every single time they want or they agree with some host city. Rio is not the first one and will be not the last one, OTO, and you know that.

Edited May 24, 2010 by DannyelBrazil

[OneTimeOnly]

Already said here. IAAF always complains that many things should be done in a short period time after the ceremonies and before the athletics competitions itself. Don't you remember the "swimming pool" (they used in OC) issue in Athens 2004???

But two cauldrons in two different places. The first time they used a indoor stadium for the ceremonies (IOC approved too!!!!)

Let's hope not... But it's not up to us this decision. And if logistics works well, this have serious chance to be done again in a future host...

The main subject here is: IOC will change the traditions every single time they want or they agree with some host city. Rio is not the first one and will be not the last one, OTO, and you know that.

Well first of all, Vancouver had no choice, they only had one indoor stadium. Secondly, you think the IOC "agreed" with Rio and "wanted" to change things. I think they "went along" with Rio, and the reasons are multi-faceted. I also think if any other city in the world proposed the idea, like Chicago, or New York, or London or Paris etc etc, it would never have passed muster. In essence, Rio has been "allowed" to bend the traditions while the IOC willfully looks the other way.

P.S. Vancouver was only the first time an indoor stadium was used for OC's. Sapporo, Japan, used an outdoor stadium for OC's and an indoor stadium for CC's. Also remember that the Winter Games do A LOT of things differently, from the medals, to the medal ceremonies. SOG are much more rigid in tradition, as they are the original games.

[DannyelBrazil]

Secondly, you think the IOC "agreed" with Rio and "wanted" to change things. I think they "went along" with Rio, and the reasons are multi-faceted.

OTO, you're wrong, sorry, baby!!!

If IOC wanted Rio to do the things "traditionally", IOC would require it! Simple like that!

Or at least IOC would never choose Rio (that crazy-people-that-want-to-change-our-Loolapalooza-festival) by voting 66-32 in final round, OTO!

Take the Port Area change as example, Rio mayor asked (without support from Rio 2016 committee) and received a huge NO from Gilbert Felli and Nawal El Moutawakel live on national TV!

If IOC doesn't want something, simply, they will not approve.

It has been like this for more than a century!!!

Your arguments are flawed, and sometimes, childish!

PS: About winter games. I will not discuss this with you since I'm not used to winter games and/or Vancouver. So, whatever I say from this point will be pure "opinion based on no accurate info".

Edited May 24, 2010 by DannyelBrazil