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British group plan bid to arrest the Pope


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Some clarification:

Needless to say, I did NOT say "I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI" or anything so personally grandiloquent. You have to remember that The Sunday Times is a Murdoch newspaper, and that all newspapers follow the odd custom of entrusting headlines to a sub-editor, not the author of the article itself.

What I DID say to Marc Horne when he telephoned me out of the blue, and I repeat it here, is that I am whole-heartedly behind the initiative by Geoffrey Robertson and Mark Stephens to mount a legal challenge to the Pope's proposed visit to Britain. Beyond that, I declined to comment to Marc Horme, other than to refer him to my 'Ratzinger is the Perfect Pope' article here: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5341

Here is what really happened. Christopher Hitchens first proposed the legal challenge idea to me on March 14th. I responded enthusiastically, and suggested the name of a high profile human rights lawyer whom I know. I had lost her address, however, and set about tracking her down. Meanwhile, Christopher made the brilliant suggestion of Geoffrey Robertson. He approached him, and Mr Robertson's subsequent 'Put the Pope in the Dock' article in The Guardian shows him to be ideal:

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5366

The case is obviously in good hands, with him and Mark Stephens. I am especially intrigued by the proposed challenge to the legality of the Vatican as a sovereign state whose head can claim diplomatic immunity.

Even if the Pope doesn't end up in the dock, and even if the Vatican doesn't cancel the visit, I am optimistic that we shall raise public consciousness to the point where the British government will find it very awkward indeed to go ahead with the Pope's visit, let alone pay for it.

Richard

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5415

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In other words it's more of a ploy to highlight the Pope's visit, the fact that the UK taxpayer is paying for it (not the Vatican or the Church), and all of this is going on as if the Pope is not embroiled in a series of scandals, as if he is above the law, as if he is an elected head of state who deserves the same treatment as Obama or Merkel or whoever.

It won't ever get as far as an arrest. If it becomes clear that that's the plan (which I don't think it will) the Pope will not visit (which itself will be something of a feather in Dawkins' cap). If, as it seems, the plan is just to make things awkward for the government and the Church leading up to the Pope's visit then that's fine by me. It'll be interesting to see what conclusions Dawkins and his lawyers come to and whether the Church or the government will react.

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In other words it's more of a ploy to highlight the Pope's visit, the fact that the UK taxpayer is paying for it (not the Vatican or the Church), and all of this is going on as if the Pope is not embroiled in a series of scandals, as if he is above the law, as if he is an elected head of state who deserves the same treatment as Obama or Merkel or whoever.

Well,actually he IS an elected Head of State.100 odd cardinals voted him into office nearly 5 years ago.

It won't ever get as far as an arrest. If it becomes clear that that's the plan (which I don't think it will) the Pope will not visit (which itself will be something of a feather in Dawkins' cap). If, as it seems, the plan is just to make things awkward for the government and the Church leading up to the Pope's visit then that's fine by me. It'll be interesting to see what conclusions Dawkins and his lawyers come to and whether the Church or the government will react.

Dawkins is a well-known militant atheist so I think his motives for doing this are going to be perceived as a tad suspect.In other words is he just riding on the bandwagon of the abuses scandal in order to promote his own hatred of organized religion and their leaders?

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I love how the word "militant" has a completely different magnitude when applied to non-religious people.

A militant religious person is someone who blows up a bus. A militant atheist is someone who puts mildly contraversial adverts on the side of them.

Yeah, so Dawkins has an agenda? But to be honest, given the fact that the Pope feels he can influence our equality bill by putting pressure on Bishops in the House of Lords to vote it down, a secularist agenda to counter this doesn't seem a bad thing to me.

And "riding the bandwagon of the abuses scandal" is an interesting way of putting it. It seems to me the Church is doing very well in keeping that particular bandwagon going without Dawkins' help, and the supposed cover up will do nothing but reinforce Dawkins' views on organised religion and where its collective conscious lies.

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I love how the word "militant" has a completely different magnitude when applied to non-religious people.A militant religious person is someone who blows up a bus. A militant atheist is someone who puts mildly contraversial adverts on the side of them.

I used 'militant' in the sense of being aggressive and pugnacious which Dawkins is.I wan't trying to imply he's about to bomb anyone.

Yeah, so Dawkins has an agenda? But to be honest, given the fact that the Pope feels he can influence our equality bill by putting pressure on Bishops in the House of Lords to vote it down, a secularist agenda to counter this doesn't seem a bad thing to me.

How can the pope put pressure on bishops in the House of Lords? They're all members of the Church of England,a religious body that ceased to accept any pressure from the Bishop of Rome about 4 and a half centuries ago!

And "riding the bandwagon of the abuses scandal" is an interesting way of putting it. It seems to me the Church is doing very well in keeping that particular bandwagon going without Dawkins' help, and the supposed cover up will do nothing but reinforce Dawkins' views on organised religion and where its collective conscious lies.

Exactly,it doesn't need Dawkins' help at all.I wonder if Dawkins has bothered to ask the 5 million Catholics of the UK for their views on whether their spiritual leader should be allowed to visit them or not? I'll bet he hasn't although I'm sure they're all touched by his concern for those of them who have suffered from abuses!

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I am honestly not sure how this issue is ever going to be resolved with Pope Benedict at the helm. He has been seriously damaged by the recent scandals, and I think the time has come for new leadership in the Vatican. I think if there are any questions on whether the pope could be arrested in England, the Vatican would seek urgent clarification that no arrest warrant would be issued, or cancel said trip. These are desperately sad times for the Catholic church.. I hope they can be resolved, one way or another.

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