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The lakefront setting was the best Chicago could go with. Spreading the venues out over the neighborhoods would've actually been a detriment. The IOC wants a compact games as has been the recent trend. I do like the idea of a San Francisco games set against the bay. Regarding NYC, I wouldn't mind seeing them give it another go. Don't knoiw where they'd put the Olympic Stadium though.

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1. The IOC wants a compact games as has been the recent trend.

2. Regarding NYC, I wouldn't mind seeing them give it another go. Don't knoiw where they'd put the Olympic Stadium though.

3. I do like the idea of a San Francisco games set against the bay.

1. Really? Rio was about as spread out as Juliana Paes' legs.

2. As I said in another post, use the new Giants stadium in the Meadowlands. If it's going to be good enough for a US-WC 2022 finals, then it's good enough for an Olympic Stadium. Also, place the Olympic VIllage on that side of the Hudson as well. And to overcome the intra-state juridictional problem, let New Jersey cede the Meadowlands area to NYC/New York for those 2 weeks, and then after the Gmaes, it reverts to being New Jersey territory. Simple.

3. Not good news for a San Francisco Games. City budget is short $483 million for fiscal year 2010-11. And a $1.5 billion shortfall is projected until 2013. So we may not see another SF bid until about 2015 which may make it ready for a 2024 or 2028 run.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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As I said in another post, use the new Giants stadium in the Meadowlands. If it's going to be good enough for a US-WC 2022 finals, then it's good enough for an Olympic Stadium.

I think this stadium is fantastic from the photos I've seen of it and would make a good Olympic Stadium. You've said a couple of times it could be an Olympic stadium now. Is there an element of wishful thinking there, or is it possible to lay a track and turn this from an NFL stadium into an athletcis stadium?

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I think this stadium is fantastic from the photos I've seen of it and would make a good Olympic Stadium. You've said a couple of times it could be an Olympic stadium now. Is there an element of wishful thinking there, or is it possible to lay a track and turn this from an NFL stadium into an athletcis stadium?

That's been one of the main issues with an American bid, where to put the Athletics. The crown jewel of any Olympics is the Olympic Stadium, which in major American cities is usually an NFL Stadium. If they use the NFL stadium for something other then The opening and closing ceremonies, medals and athletics, they will build a separate stadium for that and use the NFL stadium for soccer, with the hopes that the Olympic Stadium would be used later on. In Atlanta, Olympic Stadium became Turner Field, the current home of the baseball Braves. I believe the Georgia Dome was used for Soccer.

Athletic events are held at Ichan Stadium in Long Island, but I don't know if that stadium was in the plans during the 2012 bid. It's also a 20,000 seat stadium. Any future New York bid (or American bid for that matter) would have to find a way to fit in Athletics in a large stadium. There's a reason the United States has never hosted a World Championships in Athletics: because there aren't any suitable venues in the United States for track and field. Oh sure, there's the University of Washington which seats 72,000, but the track there surrounds the football field and the World Championships are usually in Late August, which is around the time that football stadiums get ready for the upcoming season.

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There's a reason the United States has never hosted a World Championships in Athletics: because there aren't any suitable venues in the United States for track and field.

There are but because they are usually university stadia either (1) they fall short of the 55,000 the IAAF requires for their World Champs; (2) there is not enough money tp upgrade them to super-duper status; or (3) they are not situated near a major metropolis.

BTW, Texas, the soccer finals for both men & women in the SF 2016 plan was for those to be held at the Olympic/49ers Stadium. So there are ways of accommodating some events in the same evenue.

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I think Flushing Meadows in Queens screams more Olympic Park than the Meadowlands. And indeed, if the 2012 had been won, Flushing Meadows would of acted as a as a traditional Olympic Park, hosting Athletics, the Ceremonies, Tennis, Archery, Rowing, White Water Canoe Kayak, and Water Polo.

That Water Polo pool intended for 2012 has since been built. And barring the USTA's approval / scheduling with the US Open, I think it may be possible to retrofit some of the outdoor and indoor facilities at the National Tennis Center to host other sports as well as Tennis. Archery would still be a temporary venue and Rowing / Canoe and Kayak would have to be built as per the 2012 bid (redeveloping an adjacent lake and fountain respectively).

That leaves the Olympic Stadium. I've always said if New York would ever try again, the London model should be fallowed here; a mostly temporary venue at Flusing Meadows that after the Games, could possibly replace Ichan Stadium on Randall's Island (which was going to be a training venue for 2012).

Since the 2012 bid, the site of the Olympic Village on the East River across from the UN has since been developed, so that's out. Not 100% on this, but I also think the Harlem River waterfront area next to Yankee Stadium where new venues would have been built for 2012 has also been developed.

Which brings me to say if any future NY bid wants to be successful, with local support at least, it should be very outer-borough legacy heavy and anchored. The city is now currently in the process of making NY more of a "harbor city" by greening up waterfronts and whatnot. As the NYTimes recently said, this may very well be the most important legacy of mayor Bloomberg. A future NY Olympic bid should echo these efforts across the city, as well as London's - that is, urban regeneration where it is needed.

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/\ See...here's the thing though which even the 2012 plan couldn't solve. The Village and the Olympic Stadium were in diff. boroughs and transporting the athletes to he main venue was a very big problem for the IOC. Therefore since there is NO likely plot for an OV near Flushing Meadows, then why not build the OV on the Jersey side near the Meadowlands? I am sure a new community there with probably great subway/bridge access to Manhattan would sell very well after the Games and at the same time overcome that problematic Main Stadium-OV site dichotomy which the 2012 plan could not resolve. I agree that all other venues should stay in Flushing Meadows.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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The stadium issue is a big deal for any host. It seems like many host have struggled to make use of their stadiums -- most recently Athens and Beijing. London is having hot debates about the future of their stadium and are trying to make sure it can be both a major athletics venue and a football arena.

As many have noted, the big trouble in the U.S. is that NFL teams want more compact stadiums because it creates more energy and a better atmosphere. It's also more cost effective. If you leave room for a track around the outside, you lose that. Hence, the difficulty for many U.S. cities.

I really like London's plan for a stadium that can be downsized after the Games. I thought Chicago's plan was viable too.

In terms of hosting IAAF championships, is there some reason why a track couldn't be installed at the Coliseum in LA. Possibly cost prohibitive, but in terms of square footage, it's obviously doable -- and it's a major city.

I actually think the stadium issue is a big point in favor of LA. There's always buzz about trying to woo an NFL team back to the city. An Olympics could be a great excuse to spruce up the Coliseum and would be especially justifiable if the prospect attracted a football team. The trick would be finding a genius architect who can manage to make the venue desirable as an Olympic venue AND as a football stadium. Still, all in all, I think LA might have an easier time finding a stadium solution than New York or any other American city.

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There are but because they are usually university stadia either (1) they fall short of the 55,000 the IAAF requires for their World Champs; (2) there is not enough money tp upgrade them to super-duper status; or (3) they are not situated near a major metropolis.

BTW, Texas, the soccer finals for both men & women in the SF 2016 plan was for those to be held at the Olympic/49ers Stadium. So there are ways of accommodating some events in the same evenue.

University of Washington would fit into category 2. It seats 72,000 and is located in Seattle.

Yep. A lot of NFL Stadiums can also host soccer. Every single NFL stadium either has hosted a major soccer game between two European powerhouses or have the ability to host soccer, which is why a FIFA World Cup bid is more likely at this point. So I have no doubts that a planned Olympic/49ers Stadium in SF would host soccer. 17 NFL Stadiums are proposed for the USA Bid for 2018/2022 World Cup.

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An Olympics could be a great excuse to spruce up the Coliseum and would be especially justifiable if the prospect attracted a football team. The trick would be finding a genius architect who can manage to make the venue desirable as an Olympic venue AND as a football stadium.

L.A. already has stand-by plans for a *new* stadium in the City of Industry, called "Los Angeles Stadium" if they can attract an NFL team there. All they're waiting for is the "committment" of a team so they can start building the stadium. So the Coliseum wouldn't be a player in that aspect.

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The stadium issue is a big deal for any host. It seems like many host have struggled to make use of their stadiums -- most recently Athens and Beijing. London is having hot debates about the future of their stadium and are trying to make sure it can be both a major athletics venue and a football arena.

As many have noted, the big trouble in the U.S. is that NFL teams want more compact stadiums because it creates more energy and a better atmosphere. It's also more cost effective. If you leave room for a track around the outside, you lose that. Hence, the difficulty for many U.S. cities.

I really like London's plan for a stadium that can be downsized after the Games. I thought Chicago's plan was viable too.

In terms of hosting IAAF championships, is there some reason why a track couldn't be installed at the Coliseum in LA. Possibly cost prohibitive, but in terms of square footage, it's obviously doable -- and it's a major city.

I actually think the stadium issue is a big point in favor of LA. There's always buzz about trying to woo an NFL team back to the city. An Olympics could be a great excuse to spruce up the Coliseum and would be especially justifiable if the prospect attracted a football team. The trick would be finding a genius architect who can manage to make the venue desirable as an Olympic venue AND as a football stadium. Still, all in all, I think LA might have an easier time finding a stadium solution than New York or any other American city.

There's really NO problem with the LA Coliseum (altho they did drop the infield some 11 feet like in 1995 to be able to add more seats. So they would have to raise the infield again to accommodate a track (again).

Re a Village, an LA plan offers a converted UCLA scenario again. Is that good enough for the IOC? OR would they go with a more ambitious urban renewal plan from other cities?

LA's problem is that...overall...with all its other venues as far away as Long Beach, etc., will it really sell vs. more compact bids that have NOT hosted yet?? LA's ability is NOT in question, it's its cache for a 3rd round vis-a-vis other candidates.

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But the Meadowlands is in NEW JERSEY. :blink:

The IOC would have to change it's Charter for that to be an option, which they wouldn't do anyway.

I think the charter only requires that the opening and closing ceremonies be held in the host city. All the rest is up to negotiation with the IOC.

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But the Meadowlands is in NEW JERSEY. :blink:

The IOC would have to change it's Charter for that to be an option, which they wouldn't do anyway.

If it were up to me, I would make a deal with New Jersey. I would ask them to cede that Meadowlands area to NYC jurisidction for those 4 weeks, throw in all the infrastructure (give them 2 more venues), and then after those 4 weeks, the land reverts back to New Jersey. I mean this is all just paperwork. The States of NY and NJ have cooperated on many, mnay porjects before...like the Port Authority of NY and NJ which originally owned the World Trade Center, for example...so a simple matter of "honorary" or temporary title transfer shouldn't be rocket science.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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L.A. already has stand-by plans for a *new* stadium in the City of Industry, called "Los Angeles Stadium" if they can attract an NFL team there. All they're waiting for is the "committment" of a team so they can start building the stadium. So the Coliseum wouldn't be a player in that aspect.

I'm aware of those plans, but there are several problems.

A.) The City of Industry is nowheresville. There is no there there. It's not a viable site for an Olympic stadium because there are no other venues near it -- in fact there's really not much near it at all. It's around an hour from downtown LA if there's no traffic. If there's traffic it can be 2 hours. It's even farther from the airport.

B.) I have heard nothing about designing that stadium with an Olympics in mind. So there would probably be no track and no option of adding one.

C.) The "if" you mention is pretty significant. So far nobody has bitten. Why would they? IT'S THE CITY OF INDUSTRY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

If LA were to host again, the best site for the stadium is the Coliseum. If the Industry stadium comes to fruition, then the Coliseum would probably lose the opportunity to attract an NFL team (although LA did have both the Rams and the Raiders for quite a while -- so two teams may be very unlikely, but not impossible). Worst case scenario, money has to be found to make improvements to the Coliseum with no promise of an NFL team. This is not a totally impossible situation, though I admit it's a heck of a lot less desirable.

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I think the charter only requires that the opening and closing ceremonies be held in the host city. All the rest is up to negotiation with the IOC.

Precisely.

Which would be the 'Olympic' Stadium that some people here are proposing in Meadowlands.

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I'm aware of those plans, but there are several problems.

A.) The City of Industry is nowheresville. There is no there there. It's not a viable site for an Olympic stadium because there are no other venues near it -- in fact there's really not much near it at all. It's around an hour from downtown LA if there's no traffic. If there's traffic it can be 2 hours. It's even farther from the airport.

B.) I have heard nothing about designing that stadium with an Olympics in mind. So there would probably be no track and no option of adding one.

I never said that it was an option for an Olympic stadium. Just mentioning what the new stadium would be used for, an NFL team, since you were talking about the Coliseum in that respect.

I'm aware that the IOC would never go with such a plan so far away from the city.

Not even. I believe Athens' OAKA was in a suburb..therefore a diff. municipality. The IOC bends these rules whne it suits them.

Exactly.

When it "suits" them.

I don't think the IOC is willing to 'bend the rules' for the U.S. at the moment or the forseeable future.

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When it "suits" them.

I don't think the IOC is willing to 'bend the rules' for the U.S. at the moment or the forseeable future.

I don't believe they're too much of a stickler where local jurisdictions are involved. I think they just leave that to the locals to deal with. what's the difference between a state, a prefecture, a province, a canton, an admin region? I mean when there was this whole Torch/women's volleyball venue in Cobb County fracas in 1996, they didn't get involved. They let ACOG resolve that.

Where they put their foot down are the transnational or the combined national bids because those really create a lot of problems. But something between U.S. states, I think they would let the would-be hosts resolve that issue.

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I mean when there was this whole Torch/women's volleyball venue in Cobb County fracas in 1996, they didn't get involved. They let ACOG resolve that.

Where talking about the pinnacle of the Olympic Games, 'the Olympic Stadium', not some women's volleyball venue.

I think the IOC would like to have a lot of say of where their key-event is to be at. And New Jersey just doesn't seem to fit well. Yeah, the new stadium is going to be beautiful, but by the time NYC does (or if it does) come around to want to place another long, exhaustive bid campaign, that stadium is going to be an old relic by those finicky, hard to please IOC standards.

I'm much more in line with NY20??, that a future NYC bid should be an outer-borough one. One that embosses urban rejuvenation & legacy (ala London), that's surely to capture the imagination of those old, fastidious Lausaunne Hogies.

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Is there any room at Flushing for an Olympic Stadium?

Not unless you drop one or 2 of the other venues. And then Shea Stadium (or whatever it's called) is right there across the freeway. So it would look really dumb to have these 2 behemoths (sitting empty for most of the year) within a 1/4 mile of each other. They should just a major overhaul on Shea.

But then again, you have the problem of where do you put an Olympic Village close by? Queens is pretty much all built out.

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