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U.S. Winter Bid for 2022 or 2026


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The reality is that there still is no ideal Winter Games candidate.

SLC too soon, bribery scandal.

Reno too spread out, few venues, unwillng to offer more than minimal outlay.

Denver '76 debacle, transportation to Alpine events.

Anchorage size, location, venue development.

I still see Anchorage and Denver as the best options because I think their hurdles are most surmountable -- assuming theyve got a lot of money to invest and top-drawer leadership, which they may not have.

Salt Lake won't happen and I think Reno would be an unmitigated embarrassment after Sochi, PC and Munich (or whoever lands 2022).

I agree with FYI that Lake Placid is a non-starter.

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But a large part of the budget in Sochi was roads/rail to venues; Reno already has extensive multi-billion dollar superhighways that run all around the city and into the mountains in all directions. I’m guessing the freeways in and around Reno/Tahoe were 40 billion + dollars or more to construct. So if you look at what they already have in place their games investment would be focused primarily on venues, urban renewal and measured airport expansion.


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But a large part of the budget in Sochi was roads/rail to venues; Reno already has extensive multi-billion dollar superhighways that run all around the city and into the mountains in all directions. Im guessing the freeways in and around Reno/Tahoe were 40 billion + dollars or more to construct. So if you look at what they already have in place their games investment would be focused primarily on venues, urban renewal and measured airport expansion.

Except they've made it clear they're proposing mainly cheap temporary venues (in contrast to the guttering new ones people will become accustomed to). They want Sacramento in the plan including the horribly outdated ARCO arena for figure skating because they don't want to build new venues in Reno.

As for the roads, the IOC much prefers trains and has voiced concern about car dependent bids. Reno proper also has no respectable mass transportation.

So what's there to entice the IOC? According to Baron, slot machines. Woo-hoo.

Edit: that was supposed to be "glittering new ones"

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I also think corporate sponsors could play a larger than normal roll in Reno, it’s already a substantially successful tourist hub and could be prime for extensive further development in all markets. That might translate to more NEW venue possibilities than we’re recognizing, and extensive urban investment. An Olympic Games in Reno could be the catalyst for amazing growth and development beyond games-time.


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You're so mean to Reno! :lol:

Well, don't you see some merit to my concerns?

If the city were really proposing to reinvent itself with major infrastructure improvements and building projects, that might be a different story. But the plan seems to be to stage ultra-low-cost economy Olympics in temporary facilities and spread the events out farther than the eye can see while expecting visitors to all rent cars and treat themselves to the cheesy casinos. Sorry, but I just don't see it. There's a reason the USOC has bypassed Reno six times.

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I do see your points and you’re not wrong but you’re especially focused on parts of Reno that you don’t like. I just let San Francisco and talk about tacky, dirty, cheesy, and run-down! All around downtown it is disgusting, 2 steps west of Union Square and it’s crack/meth/heroin/booze hustlers and street trash in every direction…no news there to anyone who knows the city but it’s worse than EVER. Don’t even think of going on Market anywhere around downtown AVOID IT. Even in the Marina the streets were filthy dirty running with mystery liquids and garbage, and the panhandlers and bums were so pervasive I felt I just stepped into a zombie scenes from “World War Z”. I escaped to the Presidio Social Club for dinner with friends but in most areas of the city it’s overrun by decay and depression. I did meet a Greek guy at dinner who had some great stories about 2004 and he got a tear in his eye when I revealed my Olympic passion and love for the 2004 ceremony…. that was worth the trip.

ANYWAY………Reno has good stuff too, and I just feel it’s such a great location and if a games plan can be a catalyst for bumping that city up to the next level that would be my reason to support it. However I am not interested in Sacramento, if Reno can’t produce a great plan then I’ll be the first to toss them to the heap of couldabens…….right on top of Chicago.

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Location Location Location!!!

RenoWinter.jpg

That's a great perspective, Paul. It shows how close everything is -- esp for the athletes, and getting to the slopes for one and all will only be about an hour from the Village at the University. And there's tons of accommodations, lodges, hotels, motels all around the Lake. So again, things are spread out but in absolulely compact way. It's a winner!! I don't see it any other way!!

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I'm also curious what happens in the South Shore!? The convention center foundation "the hole" has been there for 5ish years now and I've heard recently they have been cleared form whatever bankruptcy hold was happening and are moving forward on the retail part of the complex on HWY 50, though the remaining parts of the 1/2billion dollar hotel/convention center complex are still pending. This is an amazing project oportunity for an alpine area with Olympic dreams.

convention-center1.jpg

chataeu3.jpg

chataeu%202.jpg

chateau1.jpg

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That's a great perspective, Paul. It shows how close everything is -- esp for the athletes, and getting to the slopes for one and all will only be about an hour from the Village at the University. And there's tons of accommodations, lodges, hotels, motels all around the Lake. So again, things are spread out but in absolulely compact way. It's a winner!! I don't see it any other way!!

"Spread out in a compact way" Ok....

But every visitor has to have a car if they're going to stay in those lodges or motels almost all of which are 1 star facilities, if that. They certainly aren't the three-star accommodations the IOC looks for.

Plus, there's one major thing missing from that map: VENUES. Who cares if these little places are close to each other if there aren't venues there?

Finally, Paul, I'm happy to imagine that Reno is paradise on earth for the sake of argument. The infrastructure, venues, transportation and accommodations are still worlds away from being Olympic material. As near as we can tell, Reno wants to do little more than the bare minimum in the way of preparation and investment. This is a huge problem.

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I think accommodations in the Tahoe Lake region are unparalleled in any other true alpine environment in the US. Every level of hotel/resort/lodge/residence exists in abundance now. I still think there is room to develop a ski jump somewhere just east of Horizon and Harrah’s parking lots. This could be a ceremony stadium as well.....what a view!

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You are stating opinion as fact again. Who in the USOC said they didn't like Anchorage? When?

I assume you're referring back to the 80's, but lets not forget the USOC nominated Anchorage twice back then so saying they don't like it seems pretty far-fetched.

As for facilities, they're in better shape than your beloved Reno.

Except they've made it clear they're proposing mainly cheap temporary venues (in contrast to the guttering new ones people will become accustomed to). They want Sacramento in the plan including the horribly outdated ARCO arena for figure skating because they don't want to build new venues in Reno.

But every visitor has to have a car if they're going to stay in those lodges or motels almost all of which are 1 star facilities, if that. They certainly aren't the three-star accommodations the IOC looks for.

Do you understand why people here (and 1 in particular) accuse you of being unfairly biased against Reno? What is your basis that Anchorage has better facilities than Reno (which I don't believe to be true? Where have they "made it clear" they're proposing cheap venues? And please, go on any hotel website and count up how many listings there are in Tahoe that are 1 star. That is blatantly false information and if that's what you're offering as an argument against Reno, you're not helping your cause there. It either means you don't know what you're talking about and/or you've let your bias convince yourself of facts that aren't true.

That you'd go back to 3 years ago to find the "it is what it is" line.. sure, baron was offering some insight from RTWGC members. But you ran with that 1 line and are now accepting that line of thinking as gospel. This was well before the USOC was seriously entertaining Winter bids, so if you're still looking back at that as what Reno-Tahoe has to offer, you're being unfair to them. You're the one who always tells us not to rush to judgment because "we don't really know." That's exactly what's happening with you here. Give the Reno-Tahoe folks the opportunity to present what they're going to offer (when it counts, not when anything and everything we get from them is heresay, especially when it's passed on through baron). I'm with you that I get the wrong vibe from them, but I don't want to see what they've got. If at that point you're unimpressed, then tell us all how unelectable Reno is. But how about we let them paint the picture for us.. the ACTUAL picture, and then decide whether or not they've got a chance.

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To a few other things here..

My preference is Lake Placid, for the primary reasons of the legacy of 1980, the potential to involve the region, a scaled back village type games and the chance to be 3rd time hosts.

No. Stop. Please. It's a nice thought for a village of 4,500 people to host an Olympics, but if you have to tell us about the high school hosting the world's press again, I might lose my lunch. The is no scenario that exists where the IOC will accept that.

Reno Events Center - curling (6,000 capacity)

New Reno Arena - ice hockey (10,000 capacity)

Reno Livestock Events Center - ice hockey (5-6,000 capacity)

Temporary arena - figure skating/short track (12,000 capacity, dismantled afterwards)

South Tahoe Convention Center - speed skating (10,000 capacity)

A couple of things here.. the listed capacity for Reno Events Center is 7,000 and I've seen the number as high as 7,500 for basketball. I believe for arena football, the number is closer to 5,000, so I imagine that's the max for an Olympics, and that's probably before you factor in press and broadcasters. Definitely could be a viable venue, but I don't know the capacity would be high enough even for a secondary ice hockey venue.

The Livestock Events Center is listed as having 3,800 permanent seats plus bleachers that could add another 1,600. Maximum seating at just under 6,200, but that's largely based on a arena floor of 150x300 feet. So they could probably figure out a way to make that work with minimal renovation. Also worth noting.. you have the Rodeo Arena next door that seats 9,000. Add some temporary seats there and you may just have your medals plaza.

As for the South Tahoe Convention Center, from what I've read online, that project stalled out a few years ago and was described for awhile as "a hole in the ground." My understanding is that they're trying to jump-start that project as retail space, so not sure that would be the solution for a larger scale venue.

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^^ You expand the High School to meet capacity that's how. If the School can be expanded to 5 floors and with a new auditorium and/or gym then it might be feasible. 20,000 sqm or so should do the trick. The nearby Skating Oval won't be used for competitions, so could serve as auxiliary space if needed. Sure, you could use a proposed temporary Main Media Center (which would be a temporary International Broadcast Center anyways), but the idea is to recapture the home-style, nostalgic village feel of the 1980 Winter Olympics.

Hey, they did it for 1980, when they could have easily used their proposed IBC (in an expanded format of course). So why couldn't it be used again when it already has partial setup to meet the needs of the world's press? There's individual rooms for major news companies/organizations. An existing cafeteria for dining (which like in 1980 would use some larger rooms for additional food services), a potential new auditorium to potentially seat well over 1,500 for conferences, a new main working room in a new gym for 1,000 work spaces. Give it some planning and it could work. So go ahead lose your lunch. It's a cost effective approach that provides a legacy for the school.

Who said anything about a village of 4,500? It would be the Tri-Lakes region with Saranac Lake (which would get a new ski resort development), Tupper Lake and Lake Placid hosting most of the events.

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^^ You expand the High School to meet capacity that's how. If the School can be expanded to 5 floors and with a new auditorium and/or gym then it might be feasible. 20,000 sqm or so should do the trick. The nearby Skating Oval won't be used for competitions, so could serve as auxiliary space if needed. Sure, you could use a proposed temporary Main Media Center (which would be a temporary International Broadcast Center anyways), but the idea is to recapture the home-style, nostalgic village feel of the 1980 Winter Olympics.

Hey, they did it for 1980, when they could have easily used their proposed IBC (in an expanded format of course). So why couldn't it be used again when it already has partial setup to meet the needs of the world's press? There's individual rooms for major news companies/organizations. An existing cafeteria for dining (which like in 1980 would use some larger rooms for additional food services), a potential new auditorium to potentially seat well over 1,500 for conferences, a new main working room in a new gym for 1,000 work spaces. Give it some planning and it could work. So go ahead lose your lunch. It's a cost effective approach that provides a legacy for the school.

Who said anything about a village of 4,500? It would be the Tri-Lakes region with Saranac Lake (which would get a new ski resort development), Tupper Lake and Lake Placid hosting most of the events.

OMFG, you actually just went there.. again! You CANNOT use a high school as your press/broadcast center. Salt Palace was 47,000 square meters. Vancouver convention center is 43,000. There's no way you're finding 20,000 square meters out of a freaking high school, let alone that television studios probably require more ceiling height than you can squeeze into 5 floors of a high school. There are a LOT more press and broadcasters now than there were in 1980, that's the difference. The IOC isn't going to go with a cost-effective approach that discourages press from attending the games and makes it harder for broadcasters to do their jobs. This all is such a non-starter, I'm embarrassed I need to explain it to you again. There is no way this all could possibly be made into an effective bid. It borders on trolling for you to suggest otherwise.

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Who said anything about Broadcasters? They will get their own facility of well over base capacity. Something along the lines of 50,000 sqm and over. You propose the High School, then if that's not feasible add 20,000 sqm to the IBC to form an MMC. 70,000sqm of space for IBC and MPC is more than adequate and well over supposed minimal requirements, it will mostly be temporary indoor space anyways. I'm simply proposing the High School to bring back memories of the 1980 games and give it a more village type feel. It's clear that Broadcasters need more than sufficient space so you build that temporary large workspace building with well over the minimal height requirements, on a single level.

The Salt Lake City Palace was a combined Main Media Center, as was the Vancouver Convention Centre (the original bid was to propose no expansion to the Convention Centre and use that solely for MPC whilst a new site at Richmond would have served IBC).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Palace_Convention_Center

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_Convention_Centre

It could work.

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Who said anything about Broadcasters? They will get their own facility of well over base capacity. Something along the lines of 50,000 sqm and over. You propose the High School, then if that's not feasible add 20,000 sqm to the IBC to form an MMC. 70,000sqm of space for IBC and MPC should be possible.

I see.. and where are we going to house all these thousands of broadcasters and press, in addition to the athletes and officials. And then maybe have a little something left over for spectators? How is everyone going to move around the region? Do you realize how ridiculously illogical this all is? You want to build 70,000 square meters of convention space in the middle of a state-protected park with historical landmark status in rural New York? Yea, Lake Placid pulled it off in 1980.. barely. That Olympics wasn't without some moderate to severe transportation problems that would only be magnified on the scale of a future Olympics. Again, it is boggling my mind right now that this needs to be explained to you. This pipe dream of yours has an infinitesimally small chance of coming to fruition.

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Convention space? It's a temporary building that would be removed post Olympics, more in the warehouse style of things.

The transport problems will be solved, in the form of existing roads serving bus and taxi routes, new roads to link venues and the possible use of the railway track serving it's winter time use, as a snowmobile route.

You accommodate the Media by a dedicated Media Village of course, which could be designed as such that it can be relocated elsewhere since there's no sufficient demand in the region for additional housing. The same could be for the Olympic Village too.

You don't need to explain anything, I know that such an Olympics is out of the scale that Lake Placid could work with, but it's not entirely impossible. Do you believe in miracles? Well you clearly don't. ;) That being said, it's still less far fetched than little culture Reno! :P

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Well if we are looking at it that way then I'm saying let's do the whole damn thing in Tahoe! :lol:

That’s probably more comparable to Lake Placid.

Population

Lake Tahoe : 53,000 year round (300,000 peak season days)

Lake PLacid: 4,500

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Convention space? It's a temporary building that would be removed post Olympics, more in the warehouse style of things.

The transport problems will be solved, in the form of existing roads serving bus and taxi routes, new roads to link venues and the possible use of the railway track serving it's winter time use, as a snowmobile route.

You accommodate the Media by a dedicated Media Village of course, which could be designed as such that it can be relocated elsewhere since there's no sufficient demand in the region for additional housing. The same could be for the Olympic Village too.

You don't need to explain anything, I know that such an Olympics is out of the scale that Lake Placid could work with, but it's not entirely impossible. Do you believe in miracles? Well you clearly don't. ;) That being said, it's still less far fetched than little culture Reno! :P

Even with the tongue sticking out emoticon, that might be the dumbest statement I've ever seen here. Please tell me you don't actually believe that? If you do, I'm guessing you also believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny?

So basically, you want pretty much all the infrastructure needed to be temporary and then to move it elsewhere? Just to bring the world to Lake Placid for old time's sake? I've spent plenty of summers in the Adirondacks, so I happen to love the region, but this is pretty darn close to impossible. I do believe in miracles.. Lake Placid saw 1. They're not seeing this one.

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This is alI really know about Lake Placid. I don't really remember 1980, + I'm from the west, we make fun of snow east of Denver. But I like to dream too and I'd like to know more about Lake Placid. It's cool they had 2 winter games.

lp15.jpg

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Even with the tongue sticking out emoticon, that might be the dumbest statement I've ever seen here. Please tell me you don't actually believe that? If you do, I'm guessing you also believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny?

So basically, you want pretty much all the infrastructure needed to be temporary and then to move it elsewhere? Just to bring the world to Lake Placid for old time's sake? I've spent plenty of summers in the Adirondacks, so I happen to love the region, but this is pretty darn close to impossible. I do believe in miracles.. Lake Placid saw 1. They're not seeing this one.

Who said all the infrastructure was temporary? The primary reasons to pick Lake Placid is what's already there. A 7,700 seat arena, the Ski Jumps, Biathlon/Cross Country Course, Sliding Center and of course Whiteface mountain. No worries about building Ski Jumps and a Sliding Track for a mere 2 week event, it's already there. A new Speed Skating oval could be permanent. Saranac Lake could serve Ice Hockey II at 4,000 or so. Tupper Lake would host Curling at a 3,000 seat permanent venue.

And yes, I stick to my Reno remark, aside from Casino culture (which will always be 2nd rate to Las Vegas) and the fact that any alpine/winter culture will mostly be associated with Lake Tahoe, what else is there? They don't even have an arena capable of having an ice rink, let alone skating/hockey culture. How will they market the Ski Jumps and Sliding Track? Surely that would be a permanent feature that's not necessary for the region and offering them as Temporary would question the costs.

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Do you understand why people here (and 1 in particular) accuse you of being unfairly biased against Reno? What is your basis that Anchorage has better facilities than Reno (which I don't believe to be true? Where have they "made it clear" they're proposing cheap venues? And please, go on any hotel website and count up how many listings there are in Tahoe that are 1 star. That is blatantly false information and if that's what you're offering as an argument against Reno, you're not helping your cause there. It either means you don't know what you're talking about and/or you've let your bias convince yourself of facts that aren't true.

That you'd go back to 3 years ago to find the "it is what it is" line.. sure, baron was offering some insight from RTWGC members. But you ran with that 1 line and are now accepting that line of thinking as gospel. This was well before the USOC was seriously entertaining Winter bids, so if you're still looking back at that as what Reno-Tahoe has to offer, you're being unfair to them. You're the one who always tells us not to rush to judgment because "we don't really know." That's exactly what's happening with you here. Give the Reno-Tahoe folks the opportunity to present what they're going to offer (when it counts, not when anything and everything we get from them is heresay, especially when it's passed on through baron). I'm with you that I get the wrong vibe from them, but I don't want to see what they've got. If at that point you're unimpressed, then tell us all how unelectable Reno is. But how about we let them paint the picture for us.. the ACTUAL picture, and then decide whether or not they've got a chance.

Asked and answered. Go back and read this thread. Quaker, your opinion affects me least of all.

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