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U.S. Winter Bid for 2022 or 2026


Soaring
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I totally understand the "Denver blew it" argument and at this point the notion of a bid doesn't seem to be creating much enthusiasm anyway

BUT....

Isn't there SOME point where the IOC will be willing to overlook '76? I mean, we're talking about 2022 -- 46 years later. Particularly when one considers the financial burden that the Olympics posed during that time (Montreal anyone?) -- the fear of having to pay for horrendous cost overruns doesn't seem totally unfounded. With a 2022 bid, Denver would have different organizers, different voters and a different attitude. I see that history presents a hurdle, but it seems awfully extreme to say, "What Denver did is unforgivable. They shall be punished unto the 3rd and 4th generations." If the bid were to really set itself apart from the past and even other recent U.S. bids w/ a very gracious IOC-sensitive approach, I don't think success would be totally inconceivable. Maybe 2022 is still too soon, but at some point I think the IOC will overlook the past.

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I totally understand the "Denver blew it" argument and at this point the notion of a bid doesn't seem to be creating much enthusiasm anyway

BUT....

Isn't there SOME point where the IOC will be willing to overlook '76? I mean, we're talking about 2022 -- 46 years later. Particularly when one considers the financial burden that the Olympics posed during that time (Montreal anyone?) -- the fear of having to pay for horrendous cost overruns doesn't seem totally unfounded. With a 2022 bid, Denver would have different organizers, different voters and a different attitude. I see that history presents a hurdle, but it seems awfully extreme to say, "What Denver did is unforgivable. They shall be punished unto the 3rd and 4th generations." If the bid were to really set itself apart from the past and even other recent U.S. bids w/ a very gracious IOC-sensitive approach, I don't think success would be totally inconceivable. Maybe 2022 is still too soon, but at some point I think the IOC will overlook the past.

I agree. 2022 may be too soon, but most in the IOC from the 1970's will be long gone in the next 10-20 years. If Japan can be forgiven of atrocities 20 years after WW2, Denver can be forgiven 50 years after voters (most of whom would be dead) botched their hosting.

Now, if Denver wants to actually bid, they need to show an attitude adjustment. I am not quite convinced that they want to host just yet.

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Didn't Stir-the-Soul, a frequent Denver visitor already just say that he has felt no great desire for a WOG in that city on his many visits? I mean despite arguments to the fact that the 1972-76 batch will be long gone, etc., etc., do you really think the IOC is so stupid and without pride to totally draw a blank on the events of 1972-76? (Oh yeah, our gift to America's Bicentennial, did somebody mislay that?) People misjudge the IOC if they don't think that it's a proud organization totally mindful of (its) history.

What's to stop Denver from pulling the same sh*t again? NOTHING. And is Denver the only city capable of hosting a WOG? Of course, not. There are others (around the world) equally capable and who REALLY WANT IT.

Therefore, why should the USOC and the IOC give that stupid city the prize again...bypassing other qualified bids?? What was 1972--just a schoolground prank? :blink: They had their chance which comes but once in a century...and those mountain hicks blew it.

And for a 116-year-old organization which keeps records very anally, has governments and kings jumping to do their every whim, they will go back, hat in hand, tail tucked in-between their legs to a city that threw them out? Get real.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Absolutely concur, Baron.

I always love that counter-argument, "well, most who were in the IOC at that time won't be there in the future, blah, blah". Like if the new set of IOC members are then just going to be absolutely oblivious of what happened. It's in the history books what Denver did. It's not that hard to figure out.

And throwing Japan around is a new one. All I can say to that is, Japan didn't "screw over" *the IOC*, like Colorado did big time.

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Absolutely concur, Baron.

I always love that counter-argument, "well, most who were in the IOC at that time won't be there in the future, blah, blah". Like if the new set of IOC members are then just going to be absolutely oblivious of what happened. It's in the history books what Denver did. It's not that hard to figure out.

And throwing Japan around is a new one. All I can say to that is, Japan didn't "screw over" *the IOC*, like Colorado did big time.

...I was just saying that time changes things. Sure, it was a stupid comparison, but I do not retract it. Am I aware of the IOC holding grudges against Denver? Yes. I, as well as many others feel that if Denver were to enter the race for a future winter games (2022 or beyond), it would not be the end all, be all scenario some of you are predicting.

Denver would have to address the past, no doubt, but if the city seemed enthusiastic and committed, I think that they can go beyond their history. I mean, did the IOC even take public support polls in 1969? Wouldn't most of us consider the 1970's and 80's as tumultuous times for the Olympic movement?

If the IOC was sooooo concerned about American cities hosting their "gift", then clearly 1980, 1984, 1996 and 2002 would have relieved those concerns. In the end, if Denver ever were to put in a bid (a big question mark to begin with), it would have to show that it wanted redemption for their past sins... <_<

Anyway, I guess that I am a bit of a dreamer when it comes to a Denver Games. I just think it offers more than most other U.S. cities for a OWG, but sadly its lack of public support and jaded history would make it difficult (not impossible or implausible) for a future bid 20+ years down the road.

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Good grief. I'm not saying that Denver is the greatest bid city ever and I acknowledged that 2022 might be too soon for them. If there isn't considerable enthusiasm for the Games, then of course they shouldn't host. I'm just saying that I don't think the case against them is strong enough to eliminate the possibility of them hosting the Olympics for all eternity. Evidently, some feel they permanently belong on the IOC's blacklist. It would be interesting to know what IOC members think on the subject...

I think Soaring's point is well made. The history of very successful Games that followed immediately on Denver's '76 debacle must do something to allay concerns.

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The history of very successful Games that followed immediately on Denver's '76 debacle must do something to allay concerns.

That's the thing. Those other parties LIVED UP to their contract. Denver RENEGED on their award; so they were already at the starting gate when they did a 180 and booted out the IOC. I mean this is all water under the bridge and it's good to re-examine history but one can't compare the successive US hostings 1980-2002 with what Denver did. Denver turned them inside out.

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Yes, Denver backed out of the deal. They should've had their plebiscite much earlier. But that didn't stop the IOC from coming back to the U.S. We're talking about many decades later. Different economy, different voters, different Denver, different IOC. I just think it's really odd to say, "That city can never host the Olympics because the organizers of the bid (who are now mostly dead) and the citizens who opposed it (who are now mostly dead) offended many IOC members (who are now mostly dead)." It just seems really over-the-top to me -- even for the IOC. Maybe not for 2022, but I'm not willing to say that Denver is a non-starter forever and ever, amen.

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It just seems really over-the-top to me -- even for the IOC. Maybe not for 2022, but I'm not willing to say that Denver is a non-starter forever and ever, amen.

I'd say 80 years. But let them wait their turn again.

And then...for whatever good it'll do, the USOC must obviously do its homework again. It just can't risk an at-least $50 million bid based on "...hopefully the IOC'ers will have forgotten..." raison d'etre. :rolleyes: If that homework failed for Chicago last year, can you imagine if they went into this on PURE guesswork? And then of course, they'd have to send the bill to Denver since they started it all.

As for Denver falling in line again, it's just NOT fair to move them to the front of the line when there are OTHERS who legitimately want it and haven't ahd a crack at it because of those Mile-High doofuses.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Denver doesn't seem too interested anyway. So that says to me that it's not a very much "different Denver" from 40 years ago who would have very much "different voters".

What's really "odd & over-the-top", is thinking just because most of the people that were involved back then aren't around now, that somehow HISTORY is simply just going to be "forgotten" about.

And nobody is saying really that Denver should be barred "eternally", but definitely at least for the next few cycles. There's no reason why they should jump the line now over much more interested cities that would bend over backwards for the IOC anyway, over a city that just simply gave up the opportunity to shine in the spotlight because they realized AFTER the fact that it was gonna cost them some money. And it's been said many times already as well, what's to stop from doing that again anyway.

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At the risk of sounding like a broken record, here are my views again on the matter...

2022 is probably too soon for Denver to bid, but I prefer the concept of Denver over Reno for a Winter Games. I do contend that certain conditions must be met for Denver to have a successful bid though.

#1 - Denver needs to show clear public and government support.

#2 - The bid committee needs to leave no doubt in the minds of IOC voters about Denver's commitment to the Games.

#3 - The USOC must improve relations with the IOC

If either of these are not met, I would pass on Denver hosting. If Reno shows more commitment, support and enthusiasm, and no other cities seem viable, I would support Reno.

In the end, none of us know what the future holds. Conditions will change in the months and years ahead. I by no means am closed minded on a 2022 Reno Games, but I still need some convincing about that being the best we can offer. I just think that we are not in an era of the U.S. hosting a Games every 12 years or less, so it is important that we put forth a bid/city that we all can be proud of.

What would my ideal preference be? Cape Town wins 2020, Paris wins 2024, a 1st or 2nd tier U.S. city wins 2028, Denver receives much public and local government support, and Denver throws in their hat for 2038. I admit that this is by no means a probable outcome. It is just my preference. I respect your views that differ from mine...

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#1 - Denver needs to show clear public and government support.

#2 - The bid committee needs to leave no doubt in the minds of IOC voters about Denver's commitment to the Games.

#3 - The USOC must improve relations with the IOC

And this would be the Achilles Heel to any Denver prospect.

In the event that they'd had the slimmest chance of consideration, the State of Colorado would have to come up with a 'financial guarantee' package for them to have any chance 'to leave no doubt' in the minds of IOC voters about Denver's committment.

Which I very much don't see the voters & the State of Colorado doing at all.

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I just think that we are not in an era of the U.S. hosting a Games every 12 years or less, so it is important that we put forth a bid/city that we all can be proud of.

No...but just as the Olympic years ending in "8" seem to fall to Asian cities, the U.S. so far has Winter-hosted in the last three 20-year winter cycles (60, 80, 02). And this is because there are only about a dozen countries that can do it. So 2022 just seems to be about the right time for the next North American winter hosting.

Further, I really don't get this fatal fascination with a city that has "LOSER" written all over it. I mean..."Presenting the best..." The USOC already did that with New York and Chicago, and IOC turned them down flat. What more a city that blatantly insulted the IOC by returning the privilege? :blink: I mean how stupid and/or naive can one get??

And this...maybe they will have forgotten by then mantra...I mean, c'mon...what are the IOC'ers? 16-year old Valley girls? I mean these are important people, leaders of industry, finance, sport, etc., who juggle their valuable time to perform the functions of the IOC, set aside that time for once-a-year pow-wows to fulfill important IOC tasks and that rendering of mind you...UNPAID...duty should be brushed off so lightly with an...oh maybe they will forget?? :blink:

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Wars have been fought over what some dude did to another dude centuries after the fact. Some cultures have long memories and don't forgive or forget insults lightly.

ummm, OK? At least Denver didn't draw some offensive cartoons of IOC presidents or something...

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I by no means am closed minded on a 2022 Reno Games, but I still need some convincing about that being the best we can offer. I just think that we are not in an era of the U.S. hosting a Games every 12 years or less, so it is important that we put forth a bid/city that we all can be proud of.

Very diplomatically phrased. I totally agree.

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It's one of the most beautiful regions in the states, the city center is not a sophisticated metropolis (thank god) but it's got location location location and in winter that's more inportant than glamour. Reno is bigger than you think and with sergical development it can become a games focused perfect party base to winter sports paradise!

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What Denver did to the IOC was pretty much just as bad as such, if not worse.

I am sure some in the IOC would never in their lifetime vote for Denver because of that. But I will declare this specific topic to be a dead horse, so let's not continue to beat it...

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"Their lifetime"? How many people hold grudges against other people simply because those people's ancestors did something "bad" to their ancestors? Plenty.

So I don't see how that would be any different with plenty in the IOC. Revenge is a typical human characteristic no matter what the situation. Especially if you have plenty of other candidates willing to do whatever you want from them.

And I agree that this is a 'dead horse' topic, but it's the "IOC will forget since most weren't around back then" crew that continue to beat it.

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