U.S. Winter Bid for 2022 or 2026

[paul]

Should you factor in SFO?

[Quaker2001]

Should you factor in SFO?

You could, but at that distance, you might as well fly from there to Reno rather than making a 4-hour drive. As history tells us, 1 of the complaints with the 1994 World Cup in the United States was the difficulty in getting between cities. Not that that's a big issue with an Olympics, but as opposed to Europe where cities are linked up very well by rail (case in point with Germany 2006), the United States is not. If I'm an international visitor, I'm going to want to get as close by air as I can to where I'm going rather than resorting to renting a car. DEN and SLC don't need to rely on alternate airports because they can handle enough passengers on their own. Again, it's different in Europe where alternate destinations can be reached by train. Obviously in the United States, that's a tougher sell

[zekekelso]

Giid grief, I think some of you are going out of your way to try and find problems.

With SFO, LAX and LAS you've got a massive number of domestic/international flights, with connections to just about anywhere. And it's much easier to get from SFL/LAX/LAS to Reno than from NRT to Nagano, ICN to Pyeongchang, OSL to Lillehammer, anywhere to Albertville, Lake Placid, Innsbruck, Grenoble, etc.

If SLC, with it's one flight overseas a day, is good enough, RNO is fine too. Most overseas traverlers aren't taking a direct flight to either.

You could, but at that distance, you might as well fly from there to Reno rather than making a 4-hour drive.

Exactly. So what's wrong with flying to Reno? As I said above, it's still easier than getting to most WOG host cities.

[gromit]

It certainly is not difficult to get from Oslo to Lillehammer as it is on the main domestic rail line. Nor Nagano from Tokyo with the fantastic domestic netweok. Nor Albertville which is extremely well connected with both Lyon and Geneva international airports within easy driving distance.

By comparison, Reno's airport is by all account mediocre.

And the comparisons with Turin's Caselle Airport are extremely wide of the mark. Caselle was heavily renovated for Italy 1990 and has won awards as Europe's best airport for its size, something I don't think Reno has achieved - I don't think Reno has any flights east of Chicago

[Quaker2001]

Exactly. So what's wrong with flying to Reno? As I said above, it's still easier than getting to most WOG host cities.

Which city is going to be the hardest of the 3 to get to.. Denver, Salt Lake, or Reno? Is it not unfair to say that's a knock against Reno? Just for curiousity's sake, I put all 3 into a flight search website and did a roundtrip from London in December with pretty flexible parameters. To Salt Lake, the cheapest flights are 575 pounds. To Denver it's 595 pounds (721 if you want to fly direct). To Reno it's 651 pounds. I know that's hardly a big margin, but considering there are fewer flights into RNO than there are into DEN and SLC (by a pretty wide margin), how much do you think the airlines will jack up the prices of those flights knowing they'll be in high demand with only a limited supply with which you can add. And again, without a rail network that makes some of the other trips potentially more cost effective (always better to have options), that's the issue with RNO that we're bringing up other airports. Like I said, it's not a dealbreaker, but would it be a wise investment for Reno to upgrade their airport and current sports venues to bring them on par with what Denver and Salt Lake can offer? Plus, be careful when you bring up older Olympic hosts, especially pre-1998 where there were fewer sports and fewer venues that the host city needs to support.

[baron-pierreIV]

You could, but at that distance, you might as well fly from there to Reno rather than making a 4-hour drive. As history tells us, 1 of the complaints with the 1994 World Cup in the United States was the difficulty in getting between cities. Not that that's a big issue with an Olympics, but as opposed to Europe where cities are linked up very well by rail (case in point with Germany 2006), the United States is not. If I'm an international visitor, I'm going to want to get as close by air as I can to where I'm going rather than resorting to renting a car. DEN and SLC don't need to rely on alternate airports because they can handle enough passengers on their own. Again, it's different in Europe where alternate destinations can be reached by train. Obviously in the United States, that's a tougher sell

If foreign visitors found it tough in 1994 (with the widest domestic air network availalbe in the world), wait until they get to Russia 2018. Fly Aeroflot or take 2-day train rides. Pick your poison.

For a possible Reno 2026, guests coming in from Europe (unless it's a straight flight to SFO) could go thru NYC and Chicago and then take local flights. Asians would be coming in thru Seattle, CHicago or directly into SFO/Sacramento. Buses can pick them up in SACTO. They DON'T have to drive. Oceanics will probably come in thru LA; transfer to a Reno flight. Latins can come in thru Houston, Dallas, Miami and transfer to local Reno flights. If Reno were to win the Games, of course, they would upgrade nearly everything they will have to use, within their reasonable limits.

I mean how did people fly into St. Moritz and Albertville, FGS. I came in from Geneva (in the summer). People will find ways to get to their destination. Hotels & lodges could get creative in picking up their guests even as far as Sacramento or Carson City, if that were the case. I am sure Amtrak will run extra trains during that period as well. THere are solutions available.

[gromit]

Zurich is about 100miles from St Moritz on the road, Geneva even closer to Albertville with the additional access point of Lyon

[baron-pierreIV]

Zurich is about 100miles from St Moritz on the road, Geneva even closer to Albertville with the additional access point of Lyon

Those are NOT too relevant to this thread. It is about a prospective US bid.

[gromit]

Those are NOT too relevant to this thread. It is about a prospective US bid.

You compared getting to Reno with getting to Albertville or St Moritz. Considering the fantastic rail and road networks in France and Switzerland it is unfair comparison for Reno.

[baron-pierreIV]

You compared getting to Reno with getting to Albertville or St Moritz. Considering the fantastic rail and road networks in France and Switzerland it is unfair comparison for Reno.

True. I just made the comparison that some Winter host cities too had barely a mega-airport and there are other ways of getting to and from. You just have to be creative. It's NOT like it's on an island where flying in is the only option.

[paul]

Giid grief, I think some of you are going out of your way to try and find problems.

With SFO, LAX and LAS you've got a massive number of domestic/international flights, with connections to just about anywhere. And it's much easier to get from SFL/LAX/LAS to Reno than from NRT to Nagano, ICN to Pyeongchang, OSL to Lillehammer, anywhere to Albertville, Lake Placid, Innsbruck, Grenoble, etc.

If SLC, with it's one flight overseas a day, is good enough, RNO is fine too. Most overseas traverlers aren't taking a direct flight to either.

Exactly. So what's wrong with flying to Reno? As I said above, it's still easier than getting to most WOG host cities.

Amen, and the choir sang.

[zekekelso]

Which city is going to be the hardest of the 3 to get to.. Denver, Salt Lake, or Reno? Is it not unfair to say that's a knock against Reno? Just for curiousity's sake, I put all 3 into a flight search website and did a roundtrip from London in December with pretty flexible parameters. To Salt Lake, the cheapest flights are 575 pounds. To Denver it's 595 pounds (721 if you want to fly direct). To Reno it's 651 pounds.

I think there are roughly equally easy to get to... Reno a little less equal than the others. But that's not the question. The question is whether or not Reno is *so* much harder to get to that it should be a major influence on it's bid. Reno's a connecting flight for international traverlers, as will be SLC and Denver for most. Reno costs 56 pounds more. So if you must rank the 3, put Reno last. But that 56 pound different isn't a major anything. Who cares?

, but would it be a wise investment for Reno to upgrade their airport

Reno's airport is fine. Maybe you add more flights during the games. Very easy to do.

[zekekelso]

You compared getting to Reno with getting to Albertville or St Moritz. Considering the fantastic rail and road networks in France and Switzerland it is unfair comparison for Reno.

I think it's a fair comparison. But which is easier. Getting to Albertville from GVA, or getting to Reno from SFO?

[baron-pierreIV]

Reno costs 56 pounds more. So if you must rank the 3, put Reno last. But that 56 pound different isn't a major anything. Who cares?

And UNited, or whomever the Official Airline will be then...will throw in perks or extra flights from Chicago, their home base, or SFO, to serve that tight period. It's NOT a deal-breaker for a Winter Games as it would be for a SOGs.

[George_D]

Seattle could host winter olympics?

[Quaker2001]

Reno's airport is fine. Maybe you add more flights during the games. Very easy to do.

Again, this is my point. Do you want the airport that's "fine" or the one that's better than "fine"? Do you want the airport that's served by a grand total of 6 airlines with 15 non-stop destinations or the one served by 18 including nonstops to several cities in Europe? Do you not think it'll make a slight difference that RNO just spent $5 million on a renovation of the baggage claim area or the one that's about to spend $1.8 billion on a complete remodel?

I don't buy this logic that Reno's bid has to just be as good as what a European bid can offer and that makes them adequate. Again, this is a competition and they're not up against Albertville or Innsbruck or Lillehammer. Reno's technical short-comings (the airport, among others) are not deal-breakers, but if it comes to choosing them over Denver or Salt Lake, they're going to come into play, especially if their organizers are limited on just how much money they can throw at the situation to make it better

[zekekelso]

Again, this is my point. Do you want the airport that's "fine" or the one that's better than "fine"?

As long as they can get people there, fine is good enough with me. There are easily 30-40 more important factors to me. But if two cities are exactly tied after looking at the important stuff, sure... take the city that is "better than fine."

Now if a city doesn't have an airport or other transportation that will work, that could be a knockout factor. But it's totally absurd to suggest that RNO can't do the job and knocks Reno/Tahoe out of the running.

[zekekelso]

Seattle could host winter olympics?

Seattle doens't have great ski options. There is only has one realistic location to host the big alpine events. It's nowhere near Seattle and would be a big traffic headache.

It would also be very tough to justify building jumping and sledding tracks so near Vancouver. If they day comes where the IOC is fine with those being held at remote locations, I could see Seattle. But if we get that, I'd expect to see Montreal or Quebec / Lake Placid before Seattle / Vancouver.

[Quaker2001]

Now if a city doesn't have an airport or other transportation that will work, that could be a knockout factor. But it's totally absurd to suggest that RNO can't do the job and knocks Reno/Tahoe out of the running.

I agree. It would be totally absurd to suggest that. But I've never suggested that. I'm saying it's a hinderance, especially in a competition against other cities. And I also agree that there are more important factors, not to mention plenty of intangibles that we probably can't even account for here. But I can think of plenty of other areas (how about venues.. that's kinda important) where Reno is lacking and well behind the curve up against Denver and Salt Lake.

[zekekelso]

But I've never suggested that.

Of course you didn't. Sorry if you thought I was referring to you there.

[Quaker2001]

Of course you didn't. Sorry if you thought I was referring to you there.

I figured you weren't and also had an inkling that comment wasn't entirely directed at me

[Athensfan]

Again, this is my point. Do you want the airport that's "fine" or the one that's better than "fine"? Do you want the airport that's served by a grand total of 6 airlines with 15 non-stop destinations or the one served by 18 including nonstops to several cities in Europe? Do you not think it'll make a slight difference that RNO just spent $5 million on a renovation of the baggage claim area or the one that's about to spend $1.8 billion on a complete remodel?

I don't buy this logic that Reno's bid has to just be as good as what a European bid can offer and that makes them adequate. Again, this is a competition and they're not up against Albertville or Innsbruck or Lillehammer. Reno's technical short-comings (the airport, among others) are not deal-breakers, but if it comes to choosing them over Denver or Salt Lake, they're going to come into play, especially if their organizers are limited on just how much money they can throw at the situation to make it better

Totally agree with this. The airport is not a deal-breaker. It's just one more weakness that adds to an overall impression.

But it's totally absurd to suggest that RNO can't do the job and knocks Reno/Tahoe out of the running.

That would be absurd. That's not what I've argued though.

[baron-pierreIV]

. That's not what I've argued though.

No; you've been arguing against Reno purely on an aesthetic basis. I mean Salt Lake City is no stunner either (as I hear Gangneun is); but they dressed SLC up well. Once a city gets picked, all those 5-ringed banners already make it photogenic and Olympic enuf. Yeah, it's on the wild side; but hey, so was Calgary -- an oil-rush town as well.

[Athensfan]

But you DON'T know that. But you are the only one always saying -- if we disagree with you: "...well,we don't know that." Of course, we don't know that. But this board is for postulating and guessing possible bids...on likely scenarios that may move forward. I really wonder why you even come here because the discussion always ends with "...we don't know that." With that therefore, the discussion always redounds to... we DON'T KNOW anything. If all of us were to end up with that conclusion, then Rob might as well close shop and we all say goodbye. I mean what's there to discuss UNTIL something concrete happens? Makes one wonder how this board has lasted this long.

As usual, you are polarizing the conversation.

I'm not someone who argues that absolutely nothing is knowable. I simply draw clear lines around the things that are facts vs. the things that are conjecture. I can see why that would be irksome to someone who prefers to blur the two.

The reality is that it may actually be best for the USOC to forego both 2024 and 2026. That is a very legitimate possibility and one that hasn't gotten enough consideration on these boards, in my opinion.

I am not pushing for a Summer bid at any cost. Nor would I say that a highly qualified winter bid should be on ice (ha ha) until a decent summer candidate comes along. If we had a super classy winter city waiting in the wings, it would be stupid to hold them back. The truth is we don't.

There are three questionable winter hopefuls who all have big strikes against them. It's possible that there are no summer hopefuls at all. It's also possible that the only summer hopefuls have no chance of winning. We don't know. That's a fact. It's not an invalidation of all of Gamesbids (much as you might try to extrapolate it into one).

I am in favor of a high quality bid that will result in high quality Games that represent the United States in the best possible light. In this case, I do not subscribe to the idea that "something is better than nothing."

[baron-pierreIV]

I am in favor of a high quality bid that will result in high quality Games that represent the United States in the best possible light. In this case, I do not subscribe to the idea that "something is better than nothing."

And what exactly is 'high quality'? I mean once they've been vetted by the USOC, already presumably the most active, lucrative NOC in the world, and having been advised by the best consultants, etc., that money can buy, it would already be a 'top quality' bid of the moment. I mean that goes without saying. And if its up against equally so-so bids from Europe, then exactly what does your 'high quality' concept involve? I mean there are ONLY 3 viable options 7/14 years ahead of the event. Or are you going to say, ...we don't know that...and hold out for an ideal, flawless Winter bid that will somehow emerge from the mists and be everything that Denver, Reno and SLC aren't?