Brilliant Day in Vancouver

[LuigiVercotti]

It doesn't get much better than today...

• Torah Bright wins gold for Australia
  
• Norway wins their 100th then the 101st winter gold medal in history, becoming the first nation to achieve this level of success
  
• 'Aussie' Christine Nesbitt wins gold for Canada
  

You little trimmer...these are the days it's good to be an Olympic addict

Edited February 19, 2010 by eusebius65

[LuigiVercotti]

Oh, and another gold to Germany in the super combined with Maria Riesch

Edited February 19, 2010 by eusebius65

[Sir Rols]

And don't forget we've got a Blue Riband men's figure skating final coming to its climax!

... With the USA's Lysacek taking the honours.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Sir Roltel

[canuckfan]

And no glitch that we know of today

[Sir Rols]

And no glitch that we know of today

May the Gods of Olympus be taking pity?

Edited February 19, 2010 by Sir Roltel

[stir.ts]

.....other than all the people who didn't get to go to the pipe due to ticket cancellations. I can't imagine how disappointing that must be to so many peoples plans.

[ard72]

And no glitch that we know of today

Skeleton was delayed for more than an hour because of the sun shining on the ice

[Olympian2004]

• Norway wins their 100th then the 101st winter gold medal in history, becoming the first nation to achieve this level of success
  

That's not quite true -- if you count the GDR medals in (which is the somewhat official counting method), Germany has already won 122 Winter Olympic gold medals.

[LuigiVercotti]

That's not quite true -- if you count the GDR medals in (which is the somewhat official counting method), Germany has already won 122 Winter Olympic gold medals.

Nahhhh Olympian...as much as I love Deutschland (und Haribo, eisbein und DAB) there's no such thing as 'somewhat official', plus gold medals are awarded to athletes representing the NOCs of countries (or in the case of Palestine, Hong Kong, Pueto Rico etc autonomous territories). The DDR had its own NOC, its own government and was a separate political and Olympic entity. Hence Norway gets that honour, not Germany.

Now if you argued that Germans have won more than 100 gold medals, that's different. And in that light us Aussies can claim that we've actually won 4 gold, 1 silver and 4 bronze at the Winter Games (thanks to Freddie McEvoy, an Australian who captained the British bobsled team at the 1936 Garmish Partenkirchen Games).

Edited February 19, 2010 by eusebius65

[Citius Altius Fortius]

Nahhhh Olympian...as much as I love Deutschland (und Haribo, eisbein und DAB) there's no such thing as 'somewhat official', plus gold medals are awarded to athletes representing the NOCs of countries (or in the case of Palestine, Hong Kong, Pueto Rico etc autonomous territories). The DDR had its own NOC, its own government and was a separate political and Olympic entity.

How many times has Germany hosted Olympic Games so far? Two times or three times?

Edited February 20, 2010 by Citius Altius Fortius

[Returning Moose]

That's not quite true -- if you count the GDR medals in (which is the somewhat official counting method), Germany has already won 122 Winter Olympic gold medals.

If I were German, I would distance myself from the muddy medals of GDR/DDR as much as possible. Their sports program was ethical outrageous and a disgrace for the olympics. I wonder how many more medals countries like Norway and Sweden could have won during the "black" 70s and 80s and even during the 90s if their athletes did not meet "athletes" from countries with organized doping programs like GDR (not 90s in that case), Soviet Union / Russia and Finland. For instance, from 1968 to well into the 80s the by far best skier in the world cup was Oddvar Brå of Norway, but at each championship he suprisingly lost the medals to athletes from the afore mentioned countries who had not been high up on the lists before. Now we know why.

Germany don't need the GDR medals anyway, a couple of decades ahead I am sure they will pass Norway on the medal tally, at least if the current trend continues.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

If I were German, I would distance myself from the muddy medals of GDR/DDR as much as possible.

You are right there was doping in the GDR, but you should be aware that there is and was doping everywhere...

[Returning Moose]

Oh, by the way, the last couple of days have indeed been brilliant for Norway, and in particular for my own home region:

Trøndelag kicks butt!

Norway has (temporaliy, I believe) passed Germany on the medal tally with 5 golds. As discussed by the above article, Trøndelag alone, which includes Trondheim, has taken 4 golds and 7 medals total, enough to place them at third place in the medal tally if they were a country of their own! And still the largest medal hope, cross country skier Petter Northug, has not really started, and we have the potential of winning many more medals in the week to come....

[Mainad]

If I were German, I would distance myself from the muddy medals of GDR/DDR as much as possible. Their sports program was ethical outrageous and a disgrace for the olympics. I wonder how many more medals countries like Norway and Sweden could have won during the "black" 70s and 80s and even during the 90s if their athletes did not meet "athletes" from countries with organized doping programs like GDR (not 90s in that case), Soviet Union / Russia and Finland. For instance, from 1968 to well into the 80s the by far best skier in the world cup was Oddvar Brå of Norway, but at each championship he suprisingly lost the medals to athletes from the afore mentioned countries who had not been high up on the lists before. Now we know why.

Germany don't need the GDR medals anyway, a couple of decades ahead I am sure they will pass Norway on the medal tally, at least if the current trend continues.

I fully agree with this.Germany should forget all about the DDR and its disgraceful legacy. It doesn't need their tarnished reputation when it has so many excellent athletes of its own who did it the proper way!

[Citius Altius Fortius]

For instance, from 1968 to well into the 80s the by far best skier in the world cup was Oddvar Brå of Norway, but at each championship he suprisingly lost the medals to athletes from the afore mentioned countries who had not been high up on the lists before. Now we know why.

Surprises can happen every time - yes, Björndalen had been a great athlete, but nobody expected that he wins all the gold medals in Salt Lake City - that was a surprise

I fully agree with this.Germany should forget all about the DDR and its disgraceful legacy. It doesn't need their tarnished reputation when it has so many excellent athletes of its own who did it the proper way!

That is really a difficult issue and I would prefer to use German - but that is not possible here...

I just can say that the east wasn't the only ones who used drugs in sports - and therewith the IOC was well advised not to change the results

Edited February 20, 2010 by Citius Altius Fortius

[Returning Moose]

You are right there was doping in the GDR, but you should be aware that there is and was doping everywhere...

In every sports, yes, but not anywhere. I am not naive, but the possibility to hide it is much greater if doping is organized at a national level. That has clearly ever been the case in for instance Norway / Sweden, and , afaik, the only winter sports athlete from Norway / Sweden that was ever busted for doping was a Norwegian ski jumper a couple of years ago who was busted for THC /cannabis (clearly not making him a better ski jumper, the guy has had some serious personal issues).

For not many years ago there was hardly any control in many countries, and none what so ever regarding blood doping. Hopefully the more aggressive WADA and some signs that the Russians finally start taking this (a bit) more seriously means that the sport is now cleaner than it has been for decades.

However, I would be more confident if lifelong bans for first offence would be introduced. It is really irritating to see dopers jump back into a competition after just two years suspension.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

you are right - I just can ask for understanding,

the problem with the GDR-FRG-Germany medals for us at the moment is, that all people, who grew up in the GDR and in the FRG are Germans - how would you react as a Norwegian, who grew up in a fictious East-Communist-Norway, who was proud that your athletes won many medals, are not counted as Norwegian medals anymore after a fictious reunification...

... that is really difficult to explain in a foreign language...

What is with all the athletes, who participtated for an East-German team and next time for a German team - they won a gold medal in Seoul or in Calgary and next time in Albertville and Barcelona and the medals in Seoul and Calgary are not to called "German medals" anymore

I suppose not many will understand this here on the boards, since it is really a unique situation

[Returning Moose]

Surprises can happen every time - yes, Björndalen had been a great athlete, but nobody expected that he wins all the gold medals in Salt Lake City - that was a surprise

xx

When Bjørndalen does not win it is usually because hi makes mistake in the shooting. He has consistently been the best skier among the biathlon skiers save perhaps Berger (who almost always shoot badly).

But yeah, surprises happens, that's why we care to watch. But when it come to the afore mentioned countries, organized doping in the past has been proved beyond doubt, and in the case of GDR and Finland at least, confessed. That is something different.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

When Bjørndalen does not win it is usually because hi makes mistake in the shooting. He has consistently been the best skier among the biathlon skiers save perhaps Berger (who almost always shoot badly).

But yeah, surprises happens, that's why we care to watch. But when it come to the afore mentioned countries, organized doping in the past has been proved beyond doubt, and in the case of GDR and Finland at least, confessed. That is something different.

you are right that Bjørndalen is a great athlete - I just wanted to point out that surprises can always happen and not all favourites win - e.g. Cuche in downhill - that could have happened to Oddvar Brå, too

[Returning Moose]

I am not sure what we are discussing anymore. DDR in particular, but also other east block countries including the Soviet Union had doping programs for their athletes. Some other countries and sports also have had serious doping problems, like Finland in cross country skiing and professional cycling in general. Of course this was not a fact that was pleasant to digest for some Germans, but hopefully most Germans now agree that medals won under such circumstances are nothing to be proud of. Even the Russians now at least officially try to phase out the "everybody else does it" argument (but a bit disturbing that EPO-doped and busted Jevgenij Dementjev were still training with the national team last summer). Everybody else did not and does not do it.

As for Oddvar Brå, he participated in 6 WOGs, and his best placement was a fourth place (with skating technique!) in his last WOG in Calgary. It has to be said that he, as many cross country skiers, was asthmatic at least in the latter part of his career, but neither that fact or luck explains all his problems in championships.

Oh, I got to watch Northug win the 5th gold for Trøndelag...

[Sir Rols]

you are right - I just can ask for understanding,

the problem with the GDR-FRG-Germany medals for us at the moment is, that all people, who grew up in the GDR and in the FRG are Germans - how would you react as a Norwegian, who grew up in a fictious East-Communist-Norway, who was proud that your athletes won many medals, are not counted as Norwegian medals anymore after a fictious reunification...

... that is really difficult to explain in a foreign language...

What is with all the athletes, who participtated for an East-German team and next time for a German team - they won a gold medal in Seoul or in Calgary and next time in Albertville and Barcelona and the medals in Seoul and Calgary are not to called "German medals" anymore

I suppose not many will understand this here on the boards, since it is really a unique situation

I'd never thought of it that CAF, and I can see your point.

Sigh! The trouble is with the debate on GDR medals is that while, yes, many are suspect and tainted, one can't say every GDR medal was not deserved. Is Germany not to be proud of a Katerina Witt, for example, for her achievements?

[Citius Altius Fortius]

I'd never thought of it that CAF, and I can see your point.

Sigh! The trouble is with the debate on GDR medals is that while, yes, many are suspect and tainted, one can't say every GDR medal was not deserved. Is Germany not to be proud of a Katerina Witt, for example, for her achievements?

thanks roland - glad you got what I meant - it is really a difficult situation - it is very important not to put all athletes, who grew up by accident in the GDR, under general suspicion - there are athletes who won medals for the GDR wihout using drugs and one Olympic Games later they won medals for the German team without using drugs... (every singe misuse of drugs has to be proved)

Furthermore a medal table which is based on teams is totally unfair for Germany, due Germany participated in the Olympic history in five different teams, that is really a unique situation - no other country has this in its olympic history - terewith such medal tables doesn't reflect the performance of German athletes at all

Edited February 20, 2010 by Citius Altius Fortius

[Sir Rols]

Furthermore a medal table which is based on teams is totally unfair for Germany, due Germany participated in the Olympic history in five different teams, that is really a unique situation - no other country has this in its olympic history - terewith such medal tables doesn't reflect the performance of German athletes at all

Well, there's also the whole USSR and successor states kerfuffle - and Jugoslavia of course as well. Even down here we have the problem of a unifid Australasian team in the early days of the games, and Australians who've competed for GB in. It's really an almost impossible task to sort out historical medal table discrepancies.

[Citius Altius Fortius]

Well, there's also the whole USSR and successor states kerfuffle - and Jugoslavia of course as well. Even down here we have the problem of a unifid Australasian team in the early days of the games, and Australians who've competed for GB in. It's really an almost impossible task to sort out historical medal table discrepancies.

You are right - these countries were multiethnic states, which Germany is not - furthermore when you look into the olympic almanachs you will recognised that behind the athltest the soviet republich or jugoslav republic is mentioned (even in the team sports the ethnics are given)

http://www.gbrathletics.com/ic/ogm.htm

e.g. 1972 100 m olmypic champion - UKR

[Sir Rols]

You are right - these countries were multiethnic states, which Germany is not - furthermore when you look into the olympic almanachs you will recognised that behind the athltest the soviet republich or jugoslav republic is mentioned (even in the team sports the ethnics are given)

http://www.gbrathletics.com/ic/ogm.htm

e.g. 1972 100 m olmypic champion - UKR

I haven't noticed that being done in almanacs yet, at least not the ones I have to hand. But still, then there's the problem of mixed ethnicities in team sports for those countries.

I understand the bitterness of some of the attitudes to GDR medals. We in Australia also have grudges against the GDR for, say, one of our greatest runners - Raelene Boyle - never getting a Gold she deserved, as well as some of our swimmers. But I agree with you, you cannot condemn a whole team history for the sins of some (even if many). I'd be happy to see medals tables adjusted on proof on a case-by-case basis, but not a blanket dismissal of every GDR medal.