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LuigiVercotti

Toronto?

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I think it is dumb for Toronto to bid. Unless they take lessons from what Tokyo did, but I just cannot see it being a useful endeavor. It will be 10 years since Europe last hosted, 12 years since Western Europe, 32 years since France last hosted and 100 years since France last hosted a Summer Games, where they do significantly better then Canada.

Hosting the Pan Ams has also created some issues. A new velodrome won't be built because of the one in Milton. That is 45 minutes from Downtown Toronto. The stadium question still lingers and the Olympics are a much bigger and more disruptive event.

I think some of the CBC commentators that have suggested Toronto go after major-minor events; like the 2021 Fina World Championships, the 2020 or 2022 Track Cycling World Championships, hosting a Rugby Sevens Tour stop, should be the priority. Become a common destination for many sporting events and get some of the major IFs like FINA, UCI, World Rugby, ITF etc behind you and build from that into a 2028 bid. Build relationships over the next 4 years, get the full support of the Americas behind you and go after 2028 when it would have been 34 years since the Summer Games have come to North America.

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I think it is dumb for Toronto to bid. Unless they take lessons from what Tokyo did

You mean promise the IOC the world and then completely change your plan around? That's just good advice for any bid city! :D

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You mean promise the IOC the world and then completely change your plan around? That's just good advice for any bid city! :D

Tokyo's bid was never the most extravagant, and the 2020 initiative has certainly helped.

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I do hope Toronto is prepared to lose & willing to go again for 2028 if they do. With the disarray their southern neighbours are in, it's Europe that's their problem for 2024. With them out for 2028, Toronto should definitely have a really strong chance, so long as they don't lose interest on losing 2024.

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So the European votes will essentially be split, Toronto will be the only candidate for the Americas. Who do you think the various European candidates will use their sizable diplomatic muscle to campaign against---->that's right, Paris. I agree, Paris is by far the biggest BIGGEST threat, a shoe-in for these olympics, are you listening Hamburg? Budapest? Rome? :)

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Yes but in a hypotetical Toronto vs Europe final round all those European votes will have only one choice from their continent.

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And, Richard W. Pound, a member of both the Canadian Olympic Committee and the International Olympic Committee, told the Globe that he too believes Toronto would be a strong competitor globally for the 2024 Games.


“It would stack up against any of the ones in the race now,” he said in a phone interview Monday.


Pound is the same one who warned Toronto to not bid for 2008 because of Beijing. Maybe this is a sign?


Source


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You just to have look at the Rio bid for an idea of a sole America's bid. The Rio pan am's really rallied the troops in the America's, and once Chicago was out it was Rio's to loose. if Chicago had pulled through instead we would be looking at a Chicago 2016 scenairo. It could be a similiar case here, PASO will push hard for co-operation. Also, way back many many years ago a Toronto 2012 bid was considered the bid to beat - right here on these forums - ahead of the Paris 2012 bid until Vancouver killed it. I just dont see a majority of the german or italy votes going to Paris. That, and I bet that French arrogance is going to crop up again. It will be a case of co-favourites - Toronto and Paris, which is fine by me as I live in Toronto but spend a few weeks every year in Paris.

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You just to have look at the Rio bid for an idea of a sole America's bid. The Rio pan am's really rallied the troops in the America's, and once Chicago was out it was Rio's to loose. if Chicago had pulled through instead we would be looking at a Chicago 2016 scenairo. It could be a similiar case here, PASO will push hard for co-operation. Also, way back many many years ago a Toronto 2012 bid was considered the bid to beat - right here on these forums - ahead of the Paris 2012 bid until Vancouver killed it. I just dont see a majority of the german or italy votes going to Paris. That, and I bet that French arrogance is going to crop up again. It will be a case of co-favourites - Toronto and Paris, which is fine by me as I live in Toronto but spend a few weeks every year in Paris.

And you think that after Rio 2016, then Tokyo 2020, the IOC will dance to a Toronto 2024 tune?? :rolleyes: (I know you said you do Paris, too.)

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Yes but in a hypotetical Toronto vs Europe final round all those European votes will have only one choice from their continent.

That, and also in such a final round, you could have the four US members of the IOC voting for Europe, to keep open a US shot at 2028.

I do hope Toronto is prepared to lose & willing to go again for 2028 if they do. With the disarray their southern neighbours are in, it's Europe that's their problem for 2024. With them out for 2028, Toronto should definitely have a really strong chance, so long as they don't lose interest on losing 2024.

Agreed. Denver 2026 / Toronto 2028.

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That, and also in such a final round, you could have the four US members of the IOC voting for Europe, to keep open a US shot at 2028.

Agreed. Denver 2026 / Toronto 2028.

Nah I prefer the idea of Reno. Sure Denver is more developed for the indoor events, but the distance from the city to the ski resorts are less convenient than the distance of Reno to the Taho ski resorts.

But either way, as Salt Lake City showed in 2002 there is money to be made in hosting the WOGs! The US should not pass that up! Plus hosting another WOGs would encourage more people to participate in winter sports.

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I just dont see a majority of the german or italy votes going to Paris.

And I don't see any of the U.S. votes going to Toronto, so they can keep 2028 open for themselves. So it's all a wash really, & only some of you are making a big deal about that so you can look at this through your partial glasses.

I also wouldn't take anything Dick Pound has to say as sacred either. Sure, he's saying now that Toronto would make a viable candidate, when he advised against it for 2008 against Beijing. But what else is he suppose to say now? Go on record twice not to bid?

Plus, after the debacle that the 2022 race was/is, the IOC I'm sure wants to see as many bids as possible for the grand-daddy of them all, the Summer Olympic Games. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Bach is behind telling representatives of respective NOC's to encourage them as much as possible to place a bid, so they can say; "look at how many cities still want us!"

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Well, by that logic, if the US is not voting along with the region then there's no reason why Europe will vote along with their region either and they have far more sway in terms of votes than North America. Which means they'll probably vote for Toronto vs a European rival candidate, it's in their NOC's interests to do so. So basically, the Caribbean, Europe and most Muslim countries would probably vote for Toronto in a showdown with Paris. Australia, Latin America (leaning towards Canada) and Africa (50-50 split) will be a toss up, the Commonwealth and Muslim aspect vs the Francophonie aspect could sway votes there either way. Most of the Francophonie countries are Muslim so that could work against Paris as delegates there would likely be pretty furious about the burqa ban in Paris and the divisive debate associated with it. Meanwhile, Toronto is welcoming and comfortable to all religious views.


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I'm not the one who brought up the region voting TBW. All I said was it's all a wash really, bcuz if that's the case, then more than just one group will do it anyway.

But of all that is just wishful thinking, tailor making arguments TBH. People have been on here before throwing their "theories" around before why for example, a lot of people wouldn't vote for Tokyo & wouldn't vote for PyeongChang, etc, etc bcuz of this & bcuz of that, & that the Chinese, Koreans & Japanese will all lobby against one another when it's time to vote for their respective cities. Well, needless to say, none of that stuff ever came to fruition. And I'll take this with a grain of salt as well.

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So basically you're saying that there's no way to know or predict which way the votes will go? I ask this with genuine curiousity as someone who hasn't been on this board for more than 3 years (unlike some of you frequent posters), 2 of those years posting and 1 year just lurking and observing. Someone posted on one thread I commented on that Gamesbid regulars correctly predicted most of the past few Olympic game host selections. If that's the case, what was the criteria if not prediction of votes? Is this to say most IOC delegates will vote rationally for the best rational technical candidate from a continent that hasn't recently hosted? What was the criteria for these super-accurate predictions other than gut instinct?

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Of course there's a way to know or try to predict which way the vote will go. But you're putting too much emphasize on outside factors that really have nothing to do here.

The fact that Europe pretty much bailed out on 2022, & the fact it'll be 12 years since Europe last hosted the Summer Games by 2024, has more of an effect on the situation here than some PC related subject that doesn't really affect the IOC directly. The fact that Europe said "no thanks" to 2022 does.

The IOC I'm sure wants to gain support back very quickly in their home continent before venturing off somewhere else, so they don't have another 2022 debacle on their hands. And three unprecedented consecutive Olympics in Asia surely helps Europe moreso than anyone else at this point. And this is just for starters. The rest is all over these boards in other threads.

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But see, this is where it gets confusing, that line of thinking is not evidence based and rather anecdotal, at best. It all sounds like gut instincts and conjecture. How is my gut anecdotal evidence and conjecture any less feasible?

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Bcuz it's more of the general consensus versus the extreme partiality you're basing your "gut anecdotal evidence" on. The only people going on & on about Toronto's "chances" are mainly you Canadians. Everyone else is looking at this from a neutral afar. It's no different when the extremely bias Madrid 2020 camp was doing the same here a couple of years ago.

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You're right about that, the fact that it's mainly Canadians stating Toronto has a strong chance. That would sway my thinking if not for the fact those saying Toronto doesn't have a chance vs Paris are either from the USA, Sydney, or France, people I would expect to poo-poo Toronto's chances for reasons of competition/rivalry. I haven't seen any continental Europeans outside France speaking Toronto's bid looking dubious. Those would definitely be people I would love to hear from, they may have already posted on one of these forums but my participation here has been on and off so until I see it I still see Toronto's chances as better than hopeless.

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Actually there have been, from some Brits & a couple of Germans. And the Brits certainly don't have any vested interest since they've already had their Games. But I'm not saying Toronto doesn't have a chance simply so they don't scupper the U.S. chances. All I'm saying is that in THIS ROUND I don't see it very likely at all. Not with the 2024 line-up that's emerging.

Once Europe is outta the way, could I see North America's chances improve. And I could see in that scenario Toronto being competitive against a U.S. (as long as it's not New York). And like some of our European friends have pointed out before, Rio is seen as an "American continent" Games. Whether right or wrong, that seems to be their view. And it could also be the view of some the Euro-centric IOC members as well.

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You may be right, that being said there's still hope, however small and it's only $50 million. Worst case scenario it would be a fantastic branding exercise for this city and would help develop a vision for our sporting and pedestrian infrastructure and waterfront more elaborate and polished than anything we currently have. The Pan Am games have been fantastic for injecting civic pride to the masses in this region and respect in our country beyond the regular local boosters such as myself. Even if we lose I think this will be a win for us, though I rally hope we win! :D

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