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Toronto?


LuigiVercotti
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If you seriously want to host, you can't worry too much about 'timing" and the opposition, just give it your all, bid, and be prepared to bid again if you miss out. Which of course probably sounds easier than it is - the probs with bid races is there's only one winner, with everyone else being left to feel various degrees of bitterness after daring to raise their hopes.

I wouldn't mind seeing Toronto bid. It would fire up the board here.

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Why not Canada. People like them.

So what? People also like France, Italy, Germany, Russia, Japan, Turkey, etc. So what makes Canada so special then with all things being equal. And besides, it's not the "people" that vote, it's the fastidious IOC members that do.

Αt the same logic Japan had winter Olympics in 1998 so spain is greater favorite if you equalize winter with summer olympics.

Japan's economy isn't in turmoil like Spain's is. Plus, Tokyo is a major, global city that's also the capital of the 3rd largest economy in the world.

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Toronto got beat by Atlanta, lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Toronto needs Istanbul to win 2020 to have a chance at 2024. If 2020 goes to Tokyo, 2024 is heading to Europe/Africa and 2028 is in Africa/Europe. Leaving it until 2032. By than the IOC would be ready to pick Birmingham, Alabama to get back into the USA.

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Toronto got beat by Atlanta, lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Toronto needs Istanbul to win 2020 to have a chance at 2024. If 2020 goes to Tokyo, 2024 is heading to Europe/Africa and 2028 is in Africa/Europe. Leaving it until 2032. By than the IOC would be ready to pick Birmingham, Alabama to get back into the USA.

Meaning the USA turns its focus to 2026 a bid it would likely win.

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The United States wasn't even mentioned here. The U.S. would be the least of Toronto's problems since they wouldn't be competing solely against them. Even taking the U.S. out of the equation there's a number of other countries that could make a more compelling case. And even including the U.S. in the scenario, they also would have to face off with these more compelling options. So I don't see how "Americans are concerned with their choice", since even many non-Americans here have the same POV. We're able to see the much bigger picture versus solely being blinded by complete bias over our "favorite" cities.

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Spilled the true tea I see? Lol

How about this for true tea: The IOC has a huge variety of scapegoats to avoid Toronto in 2024 - no matter how slick a bid it puts forward. All it would take is rustling from a more substantial US city for 2028 for it to completely avoid TO in favour of a potential Africa/Asia or Europe in 2024 - which is almost a guarantee. Hence - my original point that they're probably better off waiting for 2032. Of course, every city has a right to bid. Just ask Madrid. Being a great city and wanting it with a great plan will only get you so far.

More true tea? The little problem of 1988 and 2010. They won't go away, and they won't be ignored. Toronto should be very careful about playing the "we've waited since 1976" card - it will easily backfire.

As for whoever compared Canada's situation to Australia's 1956 to 2000 rotation - we got lucky, BOTH times. 1956 was won by 1 vote, and 2000 by 2. It wouldn't be at all unreasonable to picture a situation where Australia has only hosted once, and we're a major Summer nation.

Edited by runningrings
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I disagree with your sentiament that the IOC would avoid a bid in the present because of something vague for the future. Things can fall apart for a bid rather quickly (ask Rome) and the IOC is not going to turn down what is in front of them for a vague promise of what is to come.

That said, if Istanbul wins 2020 (or Madrid for that matter) you will have Europe and South America unlikely to win 2024. Tokyo will not bid again and the IOC won't be giving the Games back to China 16 years after Beijing. This situation would be the most favourable for Toronto. Other than this, I do not see a point in bidding.

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How about this for true tea: The IOC has a huge variety of scapegoats to avoid Toronto in 2024 - no matter how slick a bid it puts forward. All it would take is rustling from a more substantial US city for 2028 for it to completely avoid TO in favour of a potential Africa/Asia or Europe in 2024 - which is almost a guarantee. Hence - my original point that they're probably better off waiting for 2032. Of course, every city has a right to bid. Just ask Madrid. Being a great city and wanting it with a great plan will only get you so far.

More true tea? The little problem of 1988 and 2010. They won't go away, and they won't be ignored. Toronto should be very careful about playing the "we've waited since 1976" card - it will easily backfire.

As for whoever compared Canada's situation to Australia's 1956 to 2000 rotation - we got lucky, BOTH times. 1956 was won by 1 vote, and 2000 by 2. It wouldn't be at all unreasonable to picture a situation where Australia has only hosted once, and we're a major Summer nation.

The USA option is either Chicago or NYC or it ain't happening for 2024 (then again Atlanta did win)

Madrid's case is odd. Barcelona was held the year I was born and I am 20 years old, so while other European powers wait Spain won't be getting the games any time soon. North America is the only other continent (besides Africa) not to host this century, so Toronto might be able to squeeze in but all the marbles need to fall into place. I agree with a Tokyo win we won't be seeing a Toronto 2024 bid, as it will be just a waste of money. This is likely why the report has been delayed to after the IOC's decision so they can analyze a potential 2024 field.

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Could a well-run Pan Am Games in Toronto be the key for the city in terms of winning an Olympic bid in the future?

Sisneiga pointed to Rio as a perfect example of just that.

“Rio 2007 Pan Am Games, 2016 Olympic Games so certainly it prepares the human resources,” he said. "Not all the facilities that they’re preparing for the Pan Am Games [in Toronto] will be at Olympic level, but if you can have an almost perfect Pan Am Games it certainly can open the door for the Olympic Games as long as the financial backing is there.”

-Financial backing should be there as both governments will be deficit free by 2018

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Could a well-run Pan Am Games in Toronto be the key for the city in terms of winning an Olympic bid in the future?

Sisneiga pointed to Rio as a perfect example of just that.

“Rio 2007 Pan Am Games, 2016 Olympic Games so certainly it prepares the human resources,” he said. "Not all the facilities that they’re preparing for the Pan Am Games [in Toronto] will be at Olympic level, but if you can have an almost perfect Pan Am Games it certainly can open the door for the Olympic Games as long as the financial backing is there.”

Uhmm, not really. I mean Guadalajara 2011 couldn't even qualify for the YOGs. Havana, Sto. Domingo certainly have NOT become aggressive, very attractive would-be Olympic host cities after their turns with the PanAms. The PanAms for Rio was just an added touch but (1) Brazil's booming economy; (2) South America not having hosted yet; (3) Rio being a beautiful city; and (4) possibly the 2014 WC, all contributed to Rio winning 2016. (As a matter of fact if truth be told, Rio 2007 had so many minor glitches...which the IOC Evaluation Reports brought out.) But the IOC was determined not to be outdone by FIFA, so Rio had to have the 2016 Summer Games.

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Uhmm, not really. I mean Guadalajara 2011 couldn't even qualify for the YOGs. Havana, Sto. Domingo certainly have NOT become aggressive, very attractive would-be Olympic host cities after their turns with the PanAms. The PanAms for Rio was just an added touch but (1) Brazil's booming economy; (2) South America not having hosted yet; (3) Rio being a beautiful city; and (4) possibly the 2014 WC, all contributed to Rio winning 2016. (As a matter of fact if truth be told, Rio 2007 had so many minor glitches...which the IOC Evaluation Reports brought out.) But the IOC was determined not to be outdone by FIFA, so Rio had to have the 2016 Summer Games.

Yea but you can't discount the Pan Ams as being an advantage to a Toronto bid.

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Yes and no. Atlanta didn't have any regional Games. London even turned down those 2005 IAAF's, yet they won 2012 in the same year. Possibly.

Correct, but did Paris, Madrid or NYC do so? Moscow had the Olympics already.

Melbourne, Toronto and Belgrade did not in 96. Athens had already hosted.

Hosting a major multi-sporting event will always show that a city is ready. It certainly is a benefit.

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Uhmm, not really. I mean Guadalajara 2011 couldn't even qualify for the YOGs. Havana, Sto. Domingo certainly have NOT become aggressive, very attractive would-be Olympic host cities after their turns with the PanAms. The PanAms for Rio was just an added touch but (1) Brazil's booming economy; (2) South America not having hosted yet; (3) Rio being a beautiful city; and (4) possibly the 2014 WC, all contributed to Rio winning 2016. (As a matter of fact if truth be told, Rio 2007 had so many minor glitches...which the IOC Evaluation Reports brought out.) But the IOC was determined not to be outdone by FIFA, so Rio had to have the 2016 Summer Games.

Exactly, the Pan Ams for Rio were just an extra layer of confidence that the IOC needed for a large, developing country like Brazil, that they don't necessarily need for countries like the U.S., Canada, Australia, Spain & France, which are all established & proven locations already. Any other outlook on this is mere black-&-white & partial mentality for ones preferred outcome. Could it be a 'benefit', yes. Is it going to be a big part of the final outcome, no.

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Exactly, the Pan Ams for Rio were just an extra layer of confidence that the IOC needed for a large, developing country like Brazil, that they don't necessarily need for countries like the U.S., Canada, Australia, Spain & France, which are all established & proven locations already. Any other outlook on this is mere black-&-white & partial mentality for ones preferred outcome. Could it be a 'benefit', yes. Is it going to be a big part of the final outcome, no.

And especially in a case like Toronto.. it's a country that has hosted 3 Olympics, including 1 very recently. It's a city that has bid twice before (albeit not all that recently). It's not like they need that confidence boost. Comparing their Pan Ams to what it did for Rio is a stretch. Who knows how much of an effect the 2007 Pan Ams had on Rio's win for 2016, but they did miss the shortlist for 2012, so it certainly didn't hurt. The 2015 Pan Ams certainly can't hurt Toronto if they go well, but when it comes down to it, I don't think it'll make a huge difference one way or the other.

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Uhmm, not really. I mean Guadalajara 2011 couldn't even qualify for the YOGs. Havana, Sto. Domingo certainly have NOT become aggressive, very attractive would-be Olympic host cities after their turns with the PanAms. The PanAms for Rio was just an added touch but (1) Brazil's booming economy; (2) South America not having hosted yet; (3) Rio being a beautiful city; and (4) possibly the 2014 WC, all contributed to Rio winning 2016. (As a matter of fact if truth be told, Rio 2007 had so many minor glitches...which the IOC Evaluation Reports brought out.) But the IOC was determined not to be outdone by FIFA, so Rio had to have the 2016 Summer Games.

Uh, why are we comparing Canada to Cuba and the Dominican?

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And especially in a case like Toronto.. it's a country that has hosted 3 Olympics, including 1 very recently. It's a city that has bid twice before (albeit not all that recently). It's not like they need that confidence boost. Comparing their Pan Ams to what it did for Rio is a stretch. Who knows how much of an effect the 2007 Pan Ams had on Rio's win for 2016, but they did miss the shortlist for 2012, so it certainly didn't hurt. The 2015 Pan Ams certainly can't hurt Toronto if they go well, but when it comes down to it, I don't think it'll make a huge difference one way or the other.

Well it shouldn't make a huge difference, because the city should be short-listed. But what it does is shows of the city to current IOC members that Toronto is ready and capable of hosting the Olympics. This also allows the city to build relationships with IOC members etc. which in the end is extremely valuable when it comes to voting time.

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  • 2 weeks later...

And especially in a case like Toronto.. it's a country that has hosted 3 Olympics, including 1 very recently. It's a city that has bid twice before (albeit not all that recently). It's not like they need that confidence boost. Comparing their Pan Ams to what it did for Rio is a stretch. Who knows how much of an effect the 2007 Pan Ams had on Rio's win for 2016, but they did miss the shortlist for 2012, so it certainly didn't hurt. The 2015 Pan Ams certainly can't hurt Toronto if they go well, but when it comes down to it, I don't think it'll make a huge difference one way or the other.

The shortlist for 2012 was in 2004 before the Rio PanAm games. The shortlist for 2016 came 1 year after the 2007 games and therefore Rio was able to use it as 'proof' that they could host a multi sports event

The shortlist for 2024 will probably be in 2016 a year after Toronto has strutt its stuff - this is the better comparison

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The shortlist for 2012 was in 2004 before the Rio PanAm games. The shortlist for 2016 came 1 year after the 2007 games and therefore Rio was able to use it as 'proof' that they could host a multi sports event

The shortlist for 2024 will probably be in 2016 a year after Toronto has strutt its stuff - this is the better comparison

The Pan Ams are more so to reaffirm Toronto's ability to host.

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