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Toronto?


LuigiVercotti
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Whilst New York and Chicago might offer a vow factor, Los Angeles may need to work hard to come up with an imaginative new twist ..... unlike London whose 1948 austerity games bailed out the IOC, a 3rd games in LA would be a genuine 3rd selection.

I agree that Toronto might spell trouble for the US, but only if the USOC goes for 2022 or 2026 or if they fail to nurture relationships with the IOC as needed. If the political groundwork is laid properly, it would be tough for Toronto to triumph over a US bid. If the US sits out the race, however, it gets dicier.

In point of fact, LA '84 was also a "bailout". No one else bid for those Games and the Olympucs were in serious trouble because they no longer appeared financially viable. I wouldn't consider election by default to be a "true selection" -- although the "bailout" proved successful beyond anyone's expectations.

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There will be government funding unlike the US and this is something that the IOC will like.

Philadelphia and Dallas have made noises but can they genuinely put together as compact a bid as Toronto?

Yeah, but the State & City would still come forward. And the Feds, as before, will flip the bill on security.

I think "compact" bids R blown out of proportion on these forums. Certainly for 2016, Madrid & Tokyo were the most compact, but yet the most spread out venue plan won those Games hands down. N for 2020, we pretty much have the same scenario. The 3 cities that made the short-list, Madrid & Tokyo have the compactness again, but yet Istanbul's plan is spread ou N they still were included to compete for these Games.

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Yeah, but the State & City would still come forward. And the Feds, as before, will flip the bill on security.

I think "compact" bids R blown out of proportion on these forums. Certainly for 2016, Madrid & Tokyo were the most compact, but yet the most spread out venue plan won those Games hands down. N for 2020, we pretty much have the same scenario. The 3 cities that made the short-list, Madrid & Tokyo have the compactness again, but yet Istanbul's plan is spread ou N they still were included to compete for these Games.

yes but also Rio and maybe Istanbul offer a true uniqueness in their bids - first games in South America, first Muslim games etc - whilst a city which has already held the games twice won't have that PLUS to outweigh the MINUS of a spread out bid.

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yes but also Rio and maybe Istanbul offer a true uniqueness in their bids - first games in South America, first Muslim games etc - whilst a city which has already held the games twice won't have that PLUS to outweigh the MINUS of a spread out bid.

Perhaps. But I'd still venture to say that a "compact" bid alone isn't going to win you the Games. Plus, we still don't know what a new hypothetical L.A. bid might look like to say this early on that it would be a "minus", let alone who else would be in the running that could skew a lot of things. Not to mention that the new revenew deal has been reached, much to the IOC's favor, & the U.S. already having two recent summer bid losses under their Olympic campaign belt.

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I think "compact" works if say the other cities are too spread-out, "iffy" and not particularly 'exotic' settings. But between a bland Chicago setting and a sexy, never-been-there Rio, "compact" just goes out the door. Just as another 'compact' Toronto, Chicago or Berlin bid will not match up to a virginal Durban bid, no matter how not-ready Durban will be. But I think Durban and RSA have studied this whole Olympic bidding business enough (what with Ramsamy (sp?) on the Exec Board for a number of years now), and I think they will have enough to mount a credible 2024 Durban bid.

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Perhaps. But I'd still venture to say that a "compact" bid alone isn't going to win you the Games. Plus, we still don't know what a new hypothetical L.A. bid might look like to say this early on that it would be a "minus", let alone who else would be in the running that could skew a lot of things. Not to mention that the new revenew deal has been reached, much to the IOC's favor, & the U.S. already having two recent summer bid losses under their Olympic campaign belt.

Thanks for your openness to that possibility. I mean it sincerely.

Baron, how can you possibly say Chicago is BLAND???!!! Do you know the city at all? It's fantastic. I have no doubt the rest of the world would think so if they had an opportunity to experience the Games there.

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Baron, how can you possibly say Chicago is BLAND???!!!

I've lived in NYC and San Francisco; I've visited Chicago. Have a cousin there who loves it altho she's beginning to hate the winters and think So. Cal. C's a bustling, large, modern American city but, for me, it just doesn't quite have the real, international cache of NYC and/or the incomparable beauty of SF (coupled w/ SF's more Asian influences) which has a more moderate climate year-round. (And obviously, only 18 IOC'ers thought so as well.)

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Baron, please. Stop being so disingenuous. Only 18 members voted for Chicago, n the rest of them didn't, not bcuz they share your "bland" for of the city, but bcuz there was a much bigger picture involved of not so great relationships where it counted. If that's the case, then New York is also "bland" considering only 19 IOC members voted for them in their respective race. N what would that bold for Reno then! :-P

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I've lived in NYC and San Francisco; I've visited Chicago. Have a cousin there who loves it altho she's beginning to hate the winters and think So. Cal. C's a bustling, large, modern American city but, for me, it just doesn't quite have the real, international cache of NYC and/or the incomparable beauty of SF (coupled w/ SF's more Asian influences) which has a more moderate climate year-round. (And obviously, only 18 IOC'ers thought so as well.)

I didn't hear anyone say that Chicago lost because it is "bland" and I don't think that vote is at all indicative of Chicago's Olympic potential. As you well know, the bid really never had a chance due to a variety of circumstances totally unrelated to the character of the city.

I lived in a Chicago suburb for years and I do know the city pretty well. It is a fascinating vibrant place that I strongly prefer to NYC or SF. I do like SF, but it's really tough for me to imagine the bureaucrats pulling together all the necessary pieces. For me, NYC is just too big and too busy for the Olympics.

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Should Toronto had put forward a bid for 2020? Who knows now. If Toronto does go for 2024, get ready for an American competition a la 1996.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/olympics/winter-olympics/2022-winter-olympics/17547-us-set-to-bid-for-2024-olympics-after-ruling-out-campaign-for-2022-winter-games

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U Toronto boosters are suffering from the same Madrid-itis. By itself, Toronto and Madrid would seem to be strong, solid possible host cities. But their selection is played against a larger canvas of who's bidding...PLUS the clout and size of their respective countries. Spain and Canada (population-wise and sports-strength-wise) are middling countries. As I wrote in another post, Canada now equals Italy and Japan (a country of about 127 million people, #3 economy in the world) in terms of Olympic hostings (1 summer and 2 winters a piece). Only the US and France are ahead. Just because Spain had some clout within the inner corridors of the IOC, the Madrilenos seem to think 60% of the IOC loves them unequivocably. :wacko:Hola??

I mean, Russia and Germany are due for a 2nd Summer Games sometime soon. China, with 1.3 billion vs. Canada's 35 mil?) is due for a Winter soon (which they may get in 2030 now, I guess).

Ur next shot is maybe like a dozen years after the next US hosting (whichever that may be) and perhaps a 30-year spacing between 2010. Actually, pray and support a US 2026 winter bid and that will hasten Toronto's chances.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Expect to hear more rumblings once London 2012 kicks off.

Let's say something were to happen like it did with the 2020 bid cycle. Rome was touted as a favourite and they withdrew their bid. Istanbul has a very good chance at winning it now. I'm pretty sure people thought Istanbul was a pipedream even before the application process for 2020 became official? You never know what the future holds. You can throw all the "this country has hosted this "X" amount of games" which I understand where your coming from but once a city gets shortlisted they have an equal chance at winning the games. That's just my pov. Toronto will arguably put forth the best bid once again but obviously that isn't enough to win. That takes place after the shortlisting. Basically what I'm trying to say is Toronto will be a very strong competitor regardless. I wouldn't discount them.

I'm starting to think 2024 will be a showdown in the Americas again. I can see Mexico joining in on the fun.

I'm thinking these will be the bidders:

Toronto

Chicago

Durban

Doha

Baku

Paris

Guadalajara

Dubai

Losers from 2020

Shortlisted

Toronto

Chicago

Paris

Durban

Loser from 2020

That is one very stacked up line of contenders. It will be very exciting to watch for sure!

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I'm thinking these will be the bidders:

Toronto

Chicago

Durban

Doha

Baku

Paris

Guadalajara

Dubai

Losers from 2020

Shortlisted

Toronto

Chicago

Paris

Durban

Loser from 2020

That is one very stacked up line of contenders. It will be very exciting to watch for sure!

That shortlist is certainly a credible hypothesis, but I suspect it may subscribe too closely to the conventional wisdom. We had some huge surprises in the 2020 race. I think we could be in for more. At least one (and perhaps more) of the obvious contenders may not come to play.

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Expect to hear more rumblings once London 2012 kicks off.

Let's say something were to happen like it did with the 2020 bid cycle. Rome was touted as a favourite and they withdrew their bid. Istanbul has a very good chance at winning it now. I'm pretty sure people thought Istanbul was a pipedream even before the application process for 2020 became official? You never know what the future holds. You can throw all the "this country has hosted this "X" amount of games" which I understand where your coming from but once a city gets shortlisted they have an equal chance at winning the games. That's just my pov. Toronto will arguably put forth the best bid once again but obviously that isn't enough to win. That takes place after the shortlisting. Basically what I'm trying to say is Toronto will be a very strong competitor regardless. I wouldn't discount them.

I'm starting to think 2024 will be a showdown in the Americas again. I can see Mexico joining in on the fun.

I'm thinking these will be the bidders:

Toronto

Chicago

Durban

Doha

Baku

Paris

Guadalajara

Dubai

Losers from 2020

Shortlisted

Toronto

Chicago

Paris

Durban

Loser from 2020

That is one very stacked up line of contenders. It will be very exciting to watch for sure!

]

Wrong and wrong.

To my knowledge alot of people doubted Rome with the finance problem and were not seen as the favourite and when Istanbul bid it wasn't a pipe dream many tipped them as the winners or definitely shortlisted. Baku and Doha were the pipe dreams...

Mexico is bidding for the youth games which i think is sufficient enough for them right now even though they will lose to Glasgow probably.

If Madrid loses 2020 which is a high possibility i don't think they will bid for 2024. Losing 2012, 2016 and then 2020 will definitely leave a mark. Not bitter like the USOC but i think they'll realise that they have no chance in hell, to go up against Africa country thats never hosted, USA who has waited almost as long as Spain has even though USA is a much bigger powerhouse for the games and IOC. Paris will be a big bid. Tokyo i don't know they may or may not bid i feel if they lose 2020 people will be pissed that more money went to waste and they want to bid again but who knows

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The issue Toronto might have is possible backlash from the rest of the country if they come out and say we need say a billion dollars from the feds and Ontario not to long after the pan am games i can't see the rest of the country taking that very well and more or less say you want the games fine you have to fund it 100% on your own.

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]

Wrong and wrong.

To my knowledge alot of people doubted Rome with the finance problem and were not seen as the favourite and when Istanbul bid it wasn't a pipe dream many tipped them as the winners or definitely shortlisted. Baku and Doha were the pipe dreams...

Mexico is bidding for the youth games which i think is sufficient enough for them right now even though they will lose to Glasgow probably.

If Madrid loses 2020 which is a high possibility i don't think they will bid for 2024. Losing 2012, 2016 and then 2020 will definitely leave a mark. Not bitter like the USOC but i think they'll realise that they have no chance in hell, to go up against Africa country thats never hosted, USA who has waited almost as long as Spain has even though USA is a much bigger powerhouse for the games and IOC. Paris will be a big bid. Tokyo i don't know they may or may not bid i feel if they lose 2020 people will be pissed that more money went to waste and they want to bid again but who knows

How can somenone's opinion be wrong. Its like saying your opinion of Brisbane one day hosting is wrong.

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Expect to hear more rumblings once London 2012 kicks off.

Let's say something were to happen like it did with the 2020 bid cycle. Rome was touted as a favourite and they withdrew their bid. Istanbul has a very good chance at winning it now. I'm pretty sure people thought Istanbul was a pipedream even before the application process for 2020 became official? You never know what the future holds. You can throw all the "this country has hosted this "X" amount of games" which I understand where your coming from but once a city gets shortlisted they have an equal chance at winning the games. That's just my pov. Toronto will arguably put forth the best bid once again but obviously that isn't enough to win. That takes place after the shortlisting. Basically what I'm trying to say is Toronto will be a very strong competitor regardless. I wouldn't discount them.

I'm starting to think 2024 will be a showdown in the Americas again. I can see Mexico joining in on the fun.

I'm thinking these will be the bidders:

Toronto

Chicago

Durban

Doha

Baku

Paris

Guadalajara

Dubai

Losers from 2020

Shortlisted

Toronto

Chicago

Paris

Durban

Loser from 2020

That is one very stacked up line of contenders. It will be very exciting to watch for sure!

That's an awful lot of bidders there. I'd be surprised if we see all of them, especially after this past cycle where we only saw 6 bid cities.

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It's not an awful list. I don't agree with the list of applicants (Guadalajara?), but there's a certain rationale to the list of candidates.

Toronto -- ok, there's some buzz.

Paris -- not far-fetched.

Chicago (or other American city) -- possible.

Durban -- can't be ignored.

2020 loser -- Istanbul or Tokyo -- not sure I agree here.

It's not totally crazy. As I said in my earlier post, I think it confirms too closely to expectation. I think there will be surprises. Toronto and the 2020 loser seem the most doubtful to me. But I can imagine up to 2 of the big 3 not showing up as well (big 3 being Paris, Durban, US).

I agree that at this point a 5 city shortlist seems a bit optimistic. I'm expecting 3 or 4.

I'm sorry, Quaker. I misread your post. You said "an awful lot of bidders" not "awful list of bidders". My apologies. In that sense I agree with you.

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