Athensfan Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 I dunno about the importance of compactness. Yes, it differentiated the 2008 bid -- something for which Toronto is quite rightly remembered. However, I'm not so sure that a little more space would be a bad thing. There's something to be said for not having everybody on top of each other. Of course, Im not the IOC, I'm just me, but after Rio's spread out plan, I think they might be open to a little more breathing room. Quote
intoronto Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 I dunno about the importance of compactness. Yes, it differentiated the 2008 bid -- something for which Toronto is quite rightly remembered. However, I'm not so sure that a little more space would be a bad thing. There's something to be said for not having everybody on top of each other. Of course, Im not the IOC, I'm just me, but after Rio's spread out plan, I think they might be open to a little more breathing room. We will see in 2016 if the plan was effective and it will likely influence the 2017 decision. Quote
FYI Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 While Rio's venues are spread out, & were the most spread out from their competition, however, all of the venues are still going to be within the city limits. Toronto's PanAm plans are not. They're far more widespread than Rio Olympics plans are, & would need some overhaul to be competetive with anyone else's. Quote
Athensfan Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 I'm not necessarily saying Toronto should use the exact PanAm template, but nor am I convinced they have to jettison it completely. Rio's topography demanded spread out Games. I think that transportation time is a bigger concern than distance. Toronto may have longer distances, but I suspect Rio's travel times will be one of the weak points of those Games. Quote
Sir Rols Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 Personally, I think the notion of a “compact games” is given far too much credence than the evidence suggests or it warrants. It makes for a great sounding marketing byte by a bid campaign, but at the end of the day I don't think any host decision has turned on whether it's plan was the “most compact” or not. I mean, does it really make a difference or sway votes if one bid's plan has an archery venue or an IBC or whatever 200m closer than a rival's plan? And even those hosts who have fairly centralised Olympic Parks have always had various venues and facilities spread out further anyway. Sydney sold a 'compact” games, yet still managed to have major venues from the seafront at Bondi to the foot of the Blue Mountains. Quote
FYI Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 Isn't the whole point of the Olympic Games to have the world come together in one place? Isn't that what makes the Games special? Hasn't it been discussed on here before that if you spread things too far out, that the Olympics then become nothing more than just several world championships going on at the same time. While, naturally, in a lot of cases, you just can't have "everything" together, doesn't the Olympics, however, warrant to at least have all, if not most of the key venues, in one centralized location? That's what I think about when I hear 'Olympics', & that would be the vibe I would want to feel when visiting an 'Olympic City'. Quote
Athensfan Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 I personally wouldn't want to deal with the traffic jam resulting from "the whole world in one place." The Games have a great spirit of international camaraderie no matter what. What's so bad about having some venues 45 minutes or even an hour from the main hub? I'm not suggesting a World Cup format, I just think that a little space is fine. Everything does not have to be within a 15 minute radius for it to feel as though the world is coming together. Quote
Sir Rols Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 There's widespread and there's widespread. I'm not saying (just for illustration purposes) that A NYC bid, for example could get away with Gymnastics in Albany, beach volleyball in Atlantic City and cycling and weightlifting in Syracuse, or that Toronto could get by on the widespread "golden horseshoe" they originally pushed for the Pan-Ams. But there's a limit to just how logistically you can pack into one centralised area (maybe only a Doha could do it), and I don't think anyone's ever managed to hold an entire games in a single central Olympic Park. The usual formula would be a central core hub as a focal point for some of the more high profile sports, then a fair few venues spread throughout the metropolitan area to make the city at large feel part of the games, and then the usual suspects (especially football but also including the likes of sailing and equestrian) farmed out throughout the country so the OCOG can claim these are the games for the nation, not just the city). To me, the 'compact" factor is akin to "legacy" plans using lots of existing facilities, or "renewal" plans requiring a whole new set of gleaming new venues. They can all be made to sound good in pitches, but at the end of the day I don't think any of these would be the overriding factors that sway a majority of IOCers' votes. Quote
FYI Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 The usual formula would be a central core hub as a focal point for some of the more high profile sports, then a fair few venues spread throughout the metropolitan area to make the city at large feel part of the games, and then the usual suspects (especially football but also including the likes of sailing and equestrian) farmed out throughout the country so the OCOG can claim these are the games for the nation, not just the city). Well, this is precisely what I'm trying to say. I think this the most balanced view of it all. While I understand that not everything can be in one place, anything else deviated from the 'usual formula', at least to a great degree would IMHO, delude what the Olympic Games are suppose to be about. Quote
intoronto Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 While Rio's venues are spread out, & were the most spread out from their competition, however, all of the venues are still going to be within the city limits. Toronto's PanAm plans are not. They're far more widespread than Rio Olympics plans are, & would need some overhaul to be competetive with anyone else's. Those are for the Pan Am's even with the spread out plan Toronto was the far better bid then Bogota or Lima. I believe it was Faster who posted that the behind the scenes talk had the secret leaders stress to the government that the venue plan had to be much more compact then for the Pan Am Games. Quote
Gold Coast Lions Posted January 21, 2012 Report Posted January 21, 2012 I see Toronto Ontario Canada as the strongest Bid city for the 2024 Olympics Games for one that they are hosting the 2015 Pan American and Parapan American Games which for one will be really good and the planning for them games are really good so far despite a venue or two with Hamilton and Toronto is a alpha world city that never hosted the Olympics Games and by 2024 it will have been 48 years since that Canada hosted a Summer Olympics Games. Other 2024 bidding cities if a city like Istanbul Turkey wins the 2020 Olympics Games Bid then it will take out both Europe and Asia for 2024 and maybe 2028 from hosting the Olympics Games, Which will come into fit with North America and if Reno - Lake Tahoe USA gets the 2022 Winter Olympics Games which I am hoping for it will take out the USA from bidding for the 2024 Olympics the and Africa is not ready for the Olympics Games which the head of the African Olympic Committee agrees that Africa is not read for the Games and the Australian Olympic Committee said that they are not bidding for the 2024 Olympics so that just leaves Lima Peru or Guadalajara Mexico to go up against Toronto Canada for the 2024 Olympics Bid. 1 Quote
intoronto Posted January 21, 2012 Report Posted January 21, 2012 I see Toronto Ontario Canada as the strongest Bid city for the 2024 Olympics Games for one that they are hosting the 2015 Pan American and Parapan American Games which for one will be really good and the planning for them games are really good so far despite a venue or two with Hamilton and Toronto is a alpha world city that never hosted the Olympics Games and by 2024 it will have been 48 years since that Canada hosted a Summer Olympics Games. Other 2024 bidding cities if a city like Istanbul Turkey wins the 2020 Olympics Games Bid then it will take out both Europe and Asia for 2024 and maybe 2028 from hosting the Olympics Games, Which will come into fit with North America and if Reno - Lake Tahoe USA gets the 2022 Winter Olympics Games which I am hoping for it will take out the USA from bidding for the 2024 Olympics the and Africa is not ready for the Olympics Games which the head of the African Olympic Committee agrees that Africa is not read for the Games and the Australian Olympic Committee said that they are not bidding for the 2024 Olympics so that just leaves Lima Peru or Guadalajara Mexico to go up against Toronto Canada for the 2024 Olympics Bid. I don't see USA winning 2022. So there is a chance but far from certain. Quote
intoronto Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 Interesting that more Canadians wanted a SOG in Toronto then a WOG in Vancouver bodes well for a future Toronto SOG http://www.compas.ca/data/010619-GlobalOnOlympics-PC.pdf Quote
dave199 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 Interesting that more Canadians wanted a SOG in Toronto then a WOG in Vancouver bodes well for a future Toronto SOG http://www.compas.ca...Olympics-PC.pdf Lol...I knew it would be an East vs. West thing. West Coasters supported the 2010 Vancouver bid in droves, same with the East with Toronto. Anyways, this was done in 2001. I would say the support for Toronto 2024 would have increased on the West coast now. Quote
intoronto Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 I hope so hoping for a 2024 Toronto bid! Quote
dave199 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 I hope so hoping for a 2024 Toronto bid! Well that's the plan and you already know it Quote
intoronto Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 Well that's the plan and you already know it LOL I am pretty sure Toronto bids no matter who wins 2020. So hopefully third time is a charm. Toronto needs to propose all venues minus tennis and football preliminaries for the downtown and surrounding area. Quote
dave199 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 LOL I am pretty sure Toronto bids no matter who wins 2020. So hopefully third time is a charm. Toronto needs to propose all venues minus tennis and football preliminaries for the downtown and surrounding area. Yes, I also believe Toronto will bid regardless of who wins 2020. I'm just wondering but which city do you believe Toronto would prefer to win the 2020 race? My guess would be either Rome, Madrid or Istanbul. Quote
Sir Rols Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 Yes, I also believe Toronto will bid regardless of who wins 2020. I'm just wondering but which city do you believe Toronto would prefer to win the 2020 race? My guess would be either Rome, Madrid or Istanbul. I think Istanbul would tick all the boxes best - it would knock out, or at least hamper, both Europe and Asia. There's the pesky South Africans to watch out for, though. Quote
dave199 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 I think Istanbul would tick all the boxes best - it would knock out, or at least hamper, both Europe and Asia. There's the pesky South Africans to watch out for, though. I think Istanbul would tick all the boxes best - it would knock out, or at least hamper, both Europe and Asia. There's the pesky South Africans to watch out for, though. Would it be considered a "new frontier"? Probably not on the same scale as a "Rio" right? Quote
intoronto Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 Would it be considered a "new frontier"? Probably not on the same scale as a "Rio" right? It would be a new frontier, and with Rio Pyeonchang, and if Istanbul wins three straight new frontiers might hamper a new frontier in 2024. Quote
dave199 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 I wonder how much of the Portlands will be in the re-development phase by 2015 when this race officially begins. Now with the West Donlands currently being developed, a Toronto 2024 bid will have to make some notable changes compared to its 2008 bid. The IBC was supposed to occupy these lands according to the 2008 plans. Quote
intoronto Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 I wonder how much of the Portlands will be in the re-development phase by 2015 when this race officially begins. Now with the West Donlands currently being developed, a Toronto 2024 bid will have to make some notable changes compared to its 2008 bid. The IBC was supposed to occupy these lands according to the 2008 plans. I don't think the Portlands will be developed before 2015. The IBC can easily move to the MTCC. Quote
dave199 Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 I don't think the Portlands will be developed before 2015. The IBC can easily move to the MTCC. Who knows! Residential development projects are popping out of every crack of the city especially on the waterfront like its going out of style. I wouldn't be surprised. Quote
intoronto Posted February 7, 2012 Report Posted February 7, 2012 Who knows! Residential development projects are popping out of every crack of the city especially on the waterfront like its going out of style. I wouldn't be surprised. It was supposed to be developed since the 70's and nothing yet. Possibly the backers of the bid have probably told the city of their intentions etc. Quote
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