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LuigiVercotti
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  • 2 weeks later...

I am going to use the "wait and see" approach here. First of all, Rob Ford wants all the cost-cutting done under his first term as mayor. Second, he has been reported by an American magazine as "a Canadianized Tea Party member", with little positive news about him in it. Also, how he is going to deal with the upgrading and construction of all the venues needed for the 2015 Pan-American Games? Will they be downgraded? Will they be temporary? Would some venues have to be shelved for economic reasons? How would a possible 2024 Olympic bid would look like, once the Pan American Games are concluded? Obviously, Rio's venues was good enough for the IOC to give them the 2016 Olympic Games. Could Toronto repeat that performance in 2017, which happens to be Canada's 150th anniversary year?

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I would see this as an exploratory phase. It takes a long time, a lot of resources, a lot of community consultations and a lot of politicking to get a project like this off the ground in a country like Canada. Vancouver began its 2010 bid sometime between 1996 and 1998 - a full 14-12 years before the Games. That's a similar timeline to what is happening now in Toronto.

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I am going to use the "wait and see" approach here. First of all, Rob Ford wants all the cost-cutting done under his first term as mayor. Second, he has been reported by an American magazine as "a Canadianized Tea Party member", with little positive news about him in it. Also, how he is going to deal with the upgrading and construction of all the venues needed for the 2015 Pan-American Games? Will they be downgraded? Will they be temporary? Would some venues have to be shelved for economic reasons? How would a possible 2024 Olympic bid would look like, once the Pan American Games are concluded? Obviously, Rio's venues was good enough for the IOC to give them the 2016 Olympic Games. Could Toronto repeat that performance in 2017, which happens to be Canada's 150th anniversary year?

Some venues have been downgraded in terms of seats, the aquatic center, athletics stadium, field house, velodrome etc.

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I don't think Ford will be a factor in future bids, the goof has ruined the small chance he had to get re-elected.

Just as long as Canada is not going to the Chinese to fund a possible Olympic bid, unlike certain countries bidding for 2020 at the moment.

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Well a 3 billion dollar project is going to get the greenlight for Markham including a 19,500 arena. Add in a new arena in Brampton too. So extra venues are falling into place. Pretty much every event could be held within Metro Toronto.

Explain? Or you hypothesizing or is it happening?

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Part of Markham's Downtown Master Plan is a 3 billion dollar development (similar to what Mississagua did but a little less concrete) which includes a 19,500 arena.

19,500? Thats almost the same size of the ACC. What would it be used for?

Besides it is too far from Toronto. The plan needs to be more compact.

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19,500? Thats almost the same size of the ACC. What would it be used for?

Besides it is too far from Toronto. The plan needs to be more compact.

Live Nation wants another concert venue within the MGTA and there are already feasibility studies that said the venue could be viable without a major tenant.

Sydney's area is over 12,000 square kilometers, the Urban area of Toronto is still 5000 less, which includes all of Peel, Toronto, York, Durham, and Hamilton. Sydney had venues all over the entire region. Toronto could do something similar. Any bid would have focal points at Downsview and Lakeshore. Plus venues in and around Toronto. Any distance is easily covered within the entire urban area using existing public transportation. For instance the new venue in Markham (which would be good for things like boxing) has direct transportation from Downtown Toronto. The Go Network will be hugely important to any bid. You can get from most places to most places within Urban Toronto in about an hour, hour and a half. Add in the new transportation planned for the city, having venues up to an hour away from downtown would be fine. Major venues would be concentrated within downtown Toronto, but rhythmic gymnastics, boxing etc could be farmed out to venues like this one in Markham, the Hershey Center in Mississagua etc. I wouldn't go as far as Hamilton (as the 2008 plan did) but I wouldn't rule out using existing venues to save money and create a more sustainable impact.

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Live Nation wants another concert venue within the MGTA and there are already feasibility studies that said the venue could be viable without a major tenant.

Sydney's area is over 12,000 square kilometers, the Urban area of Toronto is still 5000 less, which includes all of Peel, Toronto, York, Durham, and Hamilton. Sydney had venues all over the entire region. Toronto could do something similar. Any bid would have focal points at Downsview and Lakeshore. Plus venues in and around Toronto. Any distance is easily covered within the entire urban area using existing public transportation. For instance the new venue in Markham (which would be good for things like boxing) has direct transportation from Downtown Toronto. The Go Network will be hugely important to any bid. You can get from most places to most places within Urban Toronto in about an hour, hour and a half. Add in the new transportation planned for the city, having venues up to an hour away from downtown would be fine. Major venues would be concentrated within downtown Toronto, but rhythmic gymnastics, boxing etc could be farmed out to venues like this one in Markham, the Hershey Center in Mississagua etc. I wouldn't go as far as Hamilton (as the 2008 plan did) but I wouldn't rule out using existing venues to save money and create a more sustainable impact.

I agree, when I proposed a plan back, there was hardly any venues being built. Mostly were existing and were all in and around the downtown core.

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A Toronto 2024 bid seems imminent. Is it too early to start a new Toronto 2024 thread?

Why not? There's been a Toronto thread - or multiple threads - for every bid race since 2008's, whether Toronto's been in it or not.

What's wrong with this generic "Toronto?" thread though?

Edited by Sir Rols
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Why not? There's been a Toronto thread for every bid race since 2008's, whether Toronto's been in it or not.

What's wrong with this generic "Toronto?" thread though?

;)

We atleast know this time the city will likely be in this race.

What's wrong with this thread? Well I just thought it would be nice to start fresh for the future bid. There is no "?" mark this time around.

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;)

We atleast know this time the city will likely be in this race.

What's wrong with this thread? Well I just thought it would be nice to start fresh for the future bid. There is no "?" mark this time around.

Likely is not, yet, official. Everyone assumed Durban would bid for 2020 and look where that went. Surely it would be better to wait until there's an official bid launched ... or indeed the official 2024 race starts at all. As far as I know, the IOC hasn't even set up its timetable for the 2024 race yet.

Why clog up the place with too many Toronto threads?

Edited by Sir Rols
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Likely is not, yet, official. Everyone assumed Durban would bid for 2020 and look where that went. Surely it would be better to wait until there's an official bid launched ... or indeed the official 2024 race starts at all. As far as I know, the IOC hasn't even set up its timetable for the 2024 race yet.

Why clog up the place with too many Toronto threads?

Exactly leave it as for now.

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Fair enough. Just thought it would be polite to ask. :P

This was a piece from Toronto Star that I've read not too long ago.

Another Toronto Olympic bid (this time 2024); maybe third time is the charm?

I try to stick to travel on my travel blog (what a concept). But sometimes I can't help delving into other topics for a bit, especially when it's something as global and political and fascinating as the Olympics.

I headed up the Star's coverage of Toronto's 1996 bid against Atlanta, et al..., and also our coverage of the 2008 bid against Beijing. Both, as I recall, were losing efforts on Toronto's part. I also covered Vancouver's bid Toronto1996for the 2010 Winter Games, which had a happier ending.

It is, therefore, with great interest that I see yet another bid in the making. Bob Richardson, the chief operating officer for the 2008 Toronto bid and an unabashed Olympic junkie, is talking up a bid for the 2024 Summer Olympics.

He'll have to get the okay from Mayor Rob Ford, and probably from the province and also from the feds. First up would be the city, without which nothing happens.

Mayor Ford's team turned away Richardson's effort to drum up support for a 2020 bid, saying the city's financial situation didn't allow for such things. It's a fair point, but in August Councillor Doug Ford - the mayor's brother and sometimes political spokesman - said he'd be open to a bid at a future date.

There was talk of a Quebec City bid for the 2022 Winter Games, which would've put Toronto on ice. But Quebec's mayor ruled out a bid a couple months ago, clearing the decks for a Canadian entry for 2024, at least in theory.

There's still a huge need for better amateur sporting facilities in Canada, especially of the summer variety and most notably in our most populous province. The Pan Am Games would help, but the Olympics are a star of a much greater intensity and would, if handled properly from a financial standpoint, bring in that much more.

I don't know if the security costs are worth it these days, but if you don't mind a billion dollars or two in federal/provincial/local money for fences and x-ray machines and police overtime it could work.

The issue becomes, of course, whether 2024 is winnable. Toronto 1996 bid leader Paul Henderson was right when he said Athens wasn't guaranteed the 1996 Games, notwithstanding it was the 100th anniversary of the birth of the modern Olympics, held in Athens in 1896. He was right, but it was Atlanta that elbowed its way into the winners circle for the 1996 Games.

The Toronto folks knew they were up against it for 2008, when they took on the behemoth Beijing bid.IMG_1332 They shot themselves in the foot with Mayor Mel Lastman's talk about cannibals in Africa, but they were never going to win the 2008 Games unless China did something really stupid on the international front. They didn't, and they ran a very good Games, albeit one lacking in soul (see photo of the famous Birds Nest stadium in Beijing).

So now we come to 2011. The last Olympics in North America were the largely forgettable 2002 Winter Games in Salt Lake City, Utah. The last Summer Games - and the IOC tends to think of their two babies as separate entities - on our continent were the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta.

Here's how the Games have gone since Atlanta: Nagano, Sydney, Salt Lake, Athens, Turin, Beijing. Vancouver. Next: London, Sochi (Russia), Rio de Janeiro and Pyeongchang, South Korea (the 2018 Winter Olympics).

Those bidding for the 2020 Summer Games? Doha (Qatar), Rome, Madrid, Istanbul, Tokyo and Baku, Azerbaijan. The short list comes out next May and the vote will be in 2013.

None of those cities are in North America, of course. But there’s talk of Denver or Reno-Lake Tahoe for 2022, as well as Munich and Norway (a sentimental favourite given the now-legendary status of the Lillehammer Winter Olympics).

The IOC and the United States Olympic Committee still aren’t on the best of terms given disputes over television money and other issues, but there’s at least a possibility of a North American winner. That might scupper a Toronto bid, but, given the vagaries and outright unpredictability at times of the International Olympic Committee, it might not.

Either way, 2024 appears at this early stage to be a lot more winnable than the 2008 effort.

Is it worth doing? I don’t quite know yet. Is it worth watching? Absolutely.

http://thestar.blogs.com/travel/2011/11/another-toronto-olympic-bid-this-time-2024-maybe-third-time-is-the-charm.html

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