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Uh London 2012 happensd only one Games after Athens 2004. So how could an extra four years out this time not qualify Europe?! More roads point to Europe this time for 2024 than they did for 2012.

Not to mention, the IOC has never gone more than two Summer Games without returning to Europe. And clearly, the IOC has the options to pick from.

Good points, FYI. I'll have to research more before posting in future. :)

I still think Toronto will take itself out of the running. The City may end up indicating it's intention to bid with a letter to the IOC by September 15th, but could withdraw before January 2016 when the proposal is due. The media has reported that this would be a viable strategy because it permits Toronto to keep the door open, then take then next 4 months to make a final decision.

Edited by Alan

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Hard to make a case to return to Europe after London 2012 - that will put the Games back there just 2 Games after London.

I think the IOC may have issues with the USOC's handling of the 2024 bids.

Having said this, I'm 95% convinced that once the "glow" from the PanAms has disappeared in a few weeks, the reality of governments spending at least $4billion -- minimum -- for a 2024 Games may kill the bid. Today's poll in the Toronto Star shows support at about 61% -- and that poll was taken 48 hours after the PanAms closed. Give it a few weeks and see if the support is still there. I don't think it is.

Funny when I basically said the same thing, everyone called me a troll....as for newspaper comments, just check any paper, the Star, the Sun, the Globe, whatever, there is unanimous anomisty towards the possibility of the 2024 Olympic bid. Bids only work when you have some public support to work with, even though I was in my early teens when Toronto lost the bid in 2001, there was general positivity towards the games happening in 2008. Methinks that the support today would be virtually non-existant. As we all know, we have a rather precarious situation on Friday, two bids for the 2022 games, from Kazakhstan and China of all places. Oslo and Krakow's bid died because of fierce opposition, Boston's also died for 2024 due to fierce opposition. Seriously, don't ask people with any affiliation to this site, ask people in the real world what they honestly think of bidding for the 2024 games, and please tell me the response you get.

The IOC is going to have to make some serious changes if we are going to even see the Olympic movement continue as we know it. Although this is just a personal opinion, I honestly think the best option now is to permanently stage the games in Athens every time, this way you eliminate all corruption, and you have a city which built nearly all permanent venues that can be used time and time again.

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Some new information given out in this article.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/supporters-of-toronto-olympic-bid-face-tight-deadline/article25729142/

Supporters of Toronto Olympic bid face tight deadline

JANE TABER, OLIVER MOORE AND OLIVER SACHGAU

TORONTO — The Globe and Mail

Published

Tuesday, Jul. 28, 2015 3:00AM EDT

Last updated

Tuesday, Jul. 28, 2015 4:56AM EDT

John Bitove and Bob Richardson had breakfast at the Park Hyatt Toronto last Thursday. Few in the hotel’s tony restaurant would have realized the significance of the meeting between the two well-connected and civic-minded businessmen just as the successful Pan Am Games were coming to a close.

But it was a sure sign of the serious thinking taking place about Toronto possibly launching a bid for the 2024 Olympics.

Mr. Bitove was the CEO of Toronto’s unsuccessful bid for the 2008 Olympics, which were awarded to Beijing. Mr. Richardson was also a key member of that bid and more recently played a major role in bringing the Pan Am Games to the city. He is also close to Toronto Mayor John Tory, having co-chaired his successful mayoralty campaign.

The triumph of the Pan Am Games – a record medal haul for Canada, better-than-expected ticket sales, great sports venues, fabulous weather and not-so-much gridlock – has provided the impetus for renewed talk of Toronto trying to land the biggest sporting event in the world.

But the timelines are tight. Mr. Tory must submit a letter of interest to the International Olympic Committee by Sept. 15, as must the Canadian Olympic Committee.

The COC’s Marcel Aubut has said he is behind a Toronto bid.

Meanwhile, some IOC members are already familiar with Toronto’s facilities and the city’s ability to run an international event. Between 12 and 15 IOC members from the Americas and Europe attended the Pan Am Games and were “extremely impressed,” according to a source – one of the key players supporting the bid. IOC president Thomas Bach was in Toronto twice for the Games, where he attended the opening ceremony, toured the new aquatic site and was “effusive” about the athletes village, the source said.

Mr. Tory, however, is cautious. “Nobody’s being stampeded into anything here,” he said Monday. “This is a serious, rational decision that has to be made.”

The letter of interest could be withdrawn before a more formal bid is sent to the IOC in January. The formal bid requires support from the federal and provincial governments, and Mr. Tory would need to put it to a vote at city council.

All levels of government endorsed Vancouver’s bid for the 2010 Winter Olympics and did the same for the Pan Am Games. So the framework is there, but “if governments don’t want to do it, then it’s not going anywhere,” the source said.

Although the provincial government is focused on the upcoming Parapan Am Games (Aug. 7-15) and not commenting on a potential Olympic bid, Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne embraced the Pan Am Games. She adjusted her schedule to attend events – including water polo, swimming, beach volleyball and rhythmic gymnastics – with her grandchildren, visited athletes and awarded medals.

As for the federal government, PMO spokesman Stephen Lecce said his office had not received any proposals but would review them on their merits if it did.

Toronto would be bidding against Rome, Hamburg, Budapest and Paris. The real competition could be Los Angeles, said the source. Boston’s bid was dropped by the U.S. Olympic Committee Monday, paving the way for a bid from the California city, which is considered a very serious contender by Toronto officials.

The winner will be selected in 2017.

The price tag for a Toronto Olympics could be high. A formal bid costs $50-million to $60-million, and the Games could cost $3.3-billion to $6.9-billion, according to a January, 2014, City of Toronto feasibility study.

But that price was calculated before the IOC announced a series of reforms late last year to make bids more affordable after some cities dropped their bids for the 2022 Winter Games because of the high costs.

“This is not what we experienced before – not at all,” Mr. Aubut said in a news conference Sunday, referring to the reforms. “It’s totally new. … We will be the first player to use this [new system]. They are looking for a two-third reduction in bidding.”

Despite the new sports venues for the Pan Am Games, more buildings would have to be constructed for the Olympics. For example, a new, bigger athletes village would have to be built – the Pan Am village is being converted into condos, and more than 10,000 athletes participated in the 2012 Olympics in London, compared with about 6,000 at the Toronto 2015 Games.

The source said a new stadium would also be needed to accommodate 100,000 spectators for the opening ceremony and for the track events. Under the reforms, however, it may be possible to erect a temporary stadium that would not cost millions of dollars.

There is more land available around Ontario Place – on the waterfront – and possibly around Downsview in the north end, said the source.

Also, some of the events could be consolidated on the grounds of the Canadian National Exhibition. The IOC prefers a more compact footprint because it lowers security and transportation costs, according to the source.

Edited by dave199

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Toronto Sun: "We're Dumber than Boston"

"Now, long before the final bill is in — the Parapan Ams haven’t even started — many who stand to gain political prestige or jobs from a Toronto Olympic bid are yapping that we only have until Sept. 15 to tell the International Olympic Committee if we’re interested in staging the 2024 Summer Games.

We’re being spun, people. If that’s true, why didn’t we start debating Toronto’s sixth bid for the summer Olympics — following failures in 1960, 1964, 1976, 1996 and 2008 — months ago?"

Click the link for the complete article.

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Hamburg is the 3rd choice out of the 3 European candidates. Do you honestly see it getting past the 2nd round?

I actually see hamburg as 2nd in the European choices over Rome (mainly bcuz of Italy's financial woes). And I absolutely do see Hamburg getting pass the second round. You really think the biggest economic powerhouse in Europe, with a population 2-1/2 times that of Canada, that's also a powerhouse at the Summer Olympics (& hasn't hosted an Olympics since Canada last did), is going to be so easily overlooked?! "Yeah, okay!" I see Paris & Hamburg at the final round, & that's IF there's multiple rounds in the first place.

And another Olympics in Los Angeles, last one being in 1984, yeah ok! LA will be the first to be dropped especially after this fiasco with the USOC and their selection of Boston.

I didn't say that Los Angeles would win. Only pointing out that L.A. being in there throws a wrench into any type of momentum that Toronto might have by not being the sole North American 2024 entrant.

Toronto has the most recent experience out of all the candidates hosting a large scale multi-sport event. They will say, "Listen, we just pulled off the most successful Pan Am's in its history, these games ran very smoothly, no major problems. We dealt and overcame any traffic issues, we know what to do logistical wise. It's all in the city's planning books going forward now. The city also has never hosted the games. Support is here.

That's all nice & dandy for you guys. But that doesn't mean that any of the other candidates, barring Budapest & Baku, can't do it simply bcuz they don't have the most "recent" multi-sport hosting experience, especially Paris & L.A. Before the Pan Ams, Toronto didn't have it either. Not to mention, that really isn't a compelling narrative whatsoever to try & sell to the IOC anyway.

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And then there's this, from the Toronto Star:

Toronto still discussing possible Expo 2025 bid

The article indicates that the cost of staging Expo 2025 is much larger than the Olympics. I don't quite get that.

Experts suggest that Expo would be a better bid for Toronto, attracting as many as 40,000,000 visitors to the event, which lasts 6 months. The payoff is greater and the chances of a successful bid are much higher.

I tend to agree on this one. Expos have really brought change to host cities, such as Vancouver, Montreal and now, Milan.

Edited by Alan

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I actually see hamburg as 2nd in the European choices over Rome (mainly bcuz of Italy's financial woes). And I absolutely do see Hamburg getting pass the second round. You really think the biggest economic powerhouse in Europe, with a population 2-1/2 times that of Canada, that's also a powerhouse at the Summer Olympics (& hasn't hosted an Olympics since Canada last did), is going to be so easily overlooked?! "Yeah, okay!" I see Paris & Hamburg at the final round, & that's IF there's multiple rounds in the first place.

Yes I too see Hamburg as 2nd as far as the European bids go. I don't know how people could put Rome 2nd with its economy, especially considering everyone put Madrid dead last because of Spain's economy. Not to mention, a lot of people on here have mentioned what a nightmare Rome is as far as public transportation and city plan goes.

Berlin would have been a stronger contender. Regardless, at the end of the day, Paris is the cream of the crop out of the European cities.

Yes but they would have suffered the same fate as Boston, which decreasing public support. The public was very vocal about not wanting it.

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I actually see hamburg as 2nd in the European choices over Rome (mainly bcuz of Italy's financial woes). And I absolutely do see Hamburg getting pass the second round. You really think the biggest economic powerhouse in Europe, with a population 2-1/2 times that of Canada, that's also a powerhouse at the Summer Olympics (& hasn't hosted an Olympics since Canada last did), is going to be so easily overlooked?! "Yeah, okay!" I see Paris & Hamburg at the final round, & that's IF there's multiple rounds in the first place.

I didn't say that Los Angeles would win. Only pointing out that L.A. being in there throws a wrench into any type of momentum that Toronto might have by not being the sole North American 2024 entrant.

That's all nice & dandy for you guys. But that doesn't mean that any of the other candidates, barring Budapest & Baku, can't do it simply bcuz they don't have the most "recent" multi-sport hosting experience, especially Paris & L.A. Before the Pan Ams, Toronto didn't have it either. Not to mention, that really isn't a compelling narrative whatsoever to try & sell to the IOC anyway.

Well considering Hamburg is going up against two other European candidates may lead to early vote splitting which could leave it off the ballot after the 2nd round. I'm not saying that Hamburg deserves to be overlooked, it could easily be Rome that suffers a 2nd round exit. But with the way the race is shaping one automatically gravitates towards Paris and Rome before Hamburg.

I agree that Los Angeles can throw a wrench into this especially for Toronto. But I firmly believe LA would be the first city dropped for the reasons I've listed earlier.

Toronto was able to prove they are able to host an extremely successful hassle free games for the athletes and the citizens of Toronto. This was something that was lacking on their resume the last time they bid. They built new sports venues in time and under budget. The games have just concluded to great fanfare and positive reviews from high ranking sport officials and IOC members. This is something that Toronto will utilize to its benefit. I'm not saying Paris and Rome can't do it. I'm just saying these games are very recent and will work in Toronto's favour. They're the city with the most recent experience. Toronto would be a safe choice (as would Paris), a city that will push forward Agenda 2020 in a region that is somewhat skeptical of the IOC's practices, capable of planning and constructing venues and other related projects on time and budget. Toronto is a world city and will ultimately move up to the next tier. They will definitely offer an urbanized waterfront games that would transform a large section of under utilized land (brownfields) in downtown Toronto and help propel this city to that next level.

Can the city compete toe-to-toe with the declared big guns here? Yes! That doesn't mean I'm going to go all fanatic and claim Toronto is above and beyond the rest and will win this easily. Nor will I settle for comments stating there's no chance.

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And then there's this, from the Toronto Star:

Toronto still discussing possible Expo 2025 bid

The article indicates that the cost of staging Expo 2025 is much larger than the Olympics. I don't quite get that.

Experts suggest that Expo would be a better bid for Toronto, attracting as many as 40,000,000 visitors to the event, which lasts 6 months. The payoff is greater and the chances of a successful bid are much higher.

I tend to agree on this one. Expos have really brought change to host cities, such as Vancouver, Montreal and now, Milan.

Expos are nice to have, but does a city like Toronto need it to bring change to its city? Toronto is pretty well established and I think it's perfect the way it is, and any changes should happen gradually rather than drastically from an event like this. Still, I wouldn't mind if they got the right to host it I would definitely make the trip to go visit Toronto again just for this.

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An Expo bid would be dead in the water, a non-starter. The reason being the Canadian government removed its membership from the BIE

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Would that dumb twat Wong-Tam please shut up about the expo.

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Toronto was able to prove they are able to host an extremely successful hassle free games for the athletes and the citizens of Toronto. This was something that was lacking on their resume the last time they bid. They built new sports venues in time and under budget. The games have just concluded to great fanfare and positive reviews from high ranking sport officials and IOC members. This is something that Toronto will utilize to its benefit. I'm not saying Paris and Rome can't do it. I'm just saying these games are very recent and will work in Toronto's favour. They're the city with the most recent experience. Toronto would be a safe choice (as would Paris), a city that will push forward Agenda 2020 in a region that is somewhat skeptical of the IOC's practices, capable of planning and constructing venues and other related projects on time and budget.

It's already been stated that what Toronto has used for the Pan Ams can NOT be combined, or used to be built on for an Olympic bid. It's too spread out & the venues are still not up to Olympic capacities. And if we wanna bring agenda 2020 into this, Hamburg & Toronto (barring Budapest & Baku, bcuz really) are actually the two cities that wouldn't fall in line with that. The two cities that do are actually Paris & Los Angeles. So that's not in your cities benefit. You guys would still need to build a lot.

Can the city compete toe-to-toe with the declared big guns here? Yes! That doesn't mean I'm going to go all fanatic and claim Toronto is above and beyond the rest and will win this easily. Nor will I settle for comments stating there's no chance.

I really don't think it's a matter of people saying that there's "no chance", but rather that the odds are not really in your favor. Europe in this cycle is your biggest mountain to overcome, with a very uphill climb. The odds would be much better once they were outta the way.

But if there are some people saying that, then no, you don't necessarily have to 'settle' for those comments. But that doesn't mean that some of us can't refute the hyperhole, home-bias pep rally talk, either. Hindsight is always 20/20, & back in 2001, we heard many of the same stuff in the 2008 race here on these boards. Many times history does have a way of repeating itself.

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Toronto was able to prove they are able to host an extremely successful hassle free games for the athletes and the citizens of Toronto. This was something that was lacking on their resume the last time they bid. They built new sports venues in time and under budget.

*Ahem* the 1984 games (even though that was 31 years ago lol :-P)

The games have just concluded to great fanfare and positive reviews from high ranking sport officials and IOC members. This is something that Toronto will utilize to its benefit. I'm not saying Paris and Rome can't do it. I'm just saying these games are very recent and will work in Toronto's favour. They're the city with the most recent experience.

LA is hosting the 2015 Special Olympics *World* Games, the largest sports and humanitarian event in world - with 165 nations and 6,500 athletes, at this moment as I type this. In addition, most of the venues being used are existing and ready to be converted for Olympic use, if not already in Olympic-ready conditions. I'm sure this and LA's deep rooted Olympic history (the coliseum is literally the result of previous Olympics for crying out loud) can also pull some strings with voters in terms of Agenda 2020's sustainability thing, no?

Toronto would be a safe choice (as would Paris), a city that will push forward Agenda 2020 in a region that is somewhat skeptical of the IOC's practices, capable of planning and constructing venues and other related projects on time and budget. Toronto is a world city and will ultimately move up to the next tier. They will definitely offer an urbanized waterfront games that would transform a large section of under utilized land (brownfields) in downtown Toronto and help propel this city to that next level.

LA's prelim plans also seem push forward Agenda 2020, no doubt. The games will be aligned with the city's transportation needs, serving as a catalyst for growth, all the while taking full use of LA's new developments and growths. The concrete wasteland that is suppose to be the LA River will house the athletes' village, boosting the river use and revitalization plans, while also providing seriously needed affordable housing the city needs in the midst of its housing crisis.

I'm not saying that LA is better than Toronto or Toronto is better than LA, I'm just sayin' that the (possible) competition will also have something that can match with Toronto in terms of planning and numbers.

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An Expo bid would be dead in the water, a non-starter. The reason being the Canadian government removed its membership from the BIE

Times are different. We're in a pre-election phase right now and the Conservatives could use a promise to fund an Expo in Toronto to buy votes. I still think an Expo would be a better investment for Toronto simply because the focus on the city lasts half a year and the security concerns are much smaller. No need to shuffle people around and Expos do attract a much larger tourism market than an Olympics does.

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The expos are a consolation prize, the SOG are a game changer, everyone knows that. I couldnt name more than one expo host outside my own country without looking it up. I can think of every SOG host over the past 20+ years and images from those events, images burned into my memory as a child growing up.

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Is just me or people are still confusing the essence of Agenda 2020?

We're not confusing it, we just know that in the end it means absolute squat.

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Is just me or people are still confusing the essence of Agenda 2020?

It's just such a loose term, anything related to not-becoming-Sochi-2.0 is pretty much it.

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We're not confusing it, we just know that in the end it means absolute squat.

And yet it was a Toronto booster who brought it up in the last page to try & fit it into their argument. Go figure.

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Toronto put on a great Pan Am Games so naturally there's the itch to bid for 2024, but IMO it would be best for Toronto to sit this one out and go for 2028. The 2024 race is shaping up to be similar to the 2008 race where a very heavy favorite is in (Paris 2024, Beijing 2008). Toronto could put forth a great bid, probably one that tops the field in technicalities (didn't the IOC evaluation in 2008 have Toronto ahead of Beijing?) but that's not going to be enough to overcome geopolitics (the Eurocentric IOC has never gone three consecutive SOGs outside of Europe) not to mention you a Paris bid in the race that appears to have learned from its past mistakes (much like Beijing did in the 2008 race). Add it all up and Toronto should save the time and money and wait until 2028 when both Asia and Europe are out of the picture.

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(didn't the IOC evaluation in 2008 have Toronto ahead of Beijing?)

The 2008 Final Evaluation Report didn't necessarily rank which city was better. Only paraphrasing that "Beijing, Paris & Toronto could all host excellent Games" (or something along those lines). So in other words, just paving the way for Beijing.

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The 2008 Final Evaluation Report didn't necessarily rank which city was better. Only paraphrasing that "Beijing, Paris & Toronto could all host excellent Games" (or something along those lines). So in other words, just paving the way for Beijing.

Maybe they mean the IOC Working Group table which shows that Toronto scores higher than Beijing in the majority of the criteria?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bids_for_the_2008_Summer_Olympics

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