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Toronto has lost 2 bids already. We aren't going to enter anything unless we have some assurances we will be taken seriously.

Yeah, it is a lot of money and commitment to keep going and you can understand that any twice losing bid city wants to have some confidence before it tries again.

But really. Toronto bidded for a games 20 years after Montreal (and we talk about the 1992-2020+ gap being too small for Spain), and then for a year it was clear to most that Beijing would have to have invaded Taiwan on the eve of the vote to lose. The COCs timing was flawed on both, how ever good the quality of the bids. They have themselves as much to blame.

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Yeah, it is a lot of money and commitment to keep going and you can understand that any twice losing bid city wants to have some confidence before it tries again.

But really. Toronto bidded for a games 20 years after Montreal (and we talk about the 1992-2020+ gap being too small for Spain), and then for a year it was clear to most that Beijing would have to have invaded Taiwan on the eve of the vote to lose. The COCs timing was flawed on both, how ever good the quality of the bids. They have themselves as much to blame.

Testify brother...testify!

Makes you wonder a little about the 'People's Prince Pound' in whether or not during the setting up of the two bids he had strong enough clout to get the COC to understand it was dreaming about both bids, or dare I say this actually thought that Toronto was a goer. He must have been fully aware of the potential problems with the 96 bid, with Montreal's stench still part of the furniture at the IOC bunker (and for all our Quebecoise friends, Montreal was bad for the IOC...not Munich bad but damn close behind and up their with Moscow bad). Then, with his avowed support for Beijing in 2000 what was he thinking re 2008?

So, let's say Toronto 2024 is a goer or maybe 2028...what then of our cleanskin IOC idol? If he is around will he be willing to push the barrow another time, will he be listened to or will he just say 'Twice bitten guys...find someone else this time around'.

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Dick's not backwards in telling the COC (or other NOCs) home truths. He basically did tell Quebec City that they were dreaming in going up against SLC for 2002. I'm sure he spelled out the grim reality for Toronto for 2008 (he was certainly no shrinking violet in his support for Beijing 2000 - for reasons I actually respected). Read his "Inside The Olympics" book - IMHO the essential primer for anyone interested in bids, thinking of mounting a bid, or just anyone who wants a pretty open glimpse of how the IOC works. It's no gloss job - like him, it's straight talking and frank.

I still think he's one of the integrity men of the IOC. And I do think there's far more of his ilk than cynics give credit for.

He'll know TO's chances - and advise them as such. And i think it's chances are as good as anyone else's within the coming decade(s).

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It's funny how so many OC's have that sentiment in throwing in another bid. The IOC can't promise a piece of cake to everyone...

I said taken seriously, not winning. We aren't the Chinese. We don't want to enter another race like 2008 or 2016. Its a waste of time and money.

Rols, Toronto was the other alternative to Athens, but the money promised from going to the US was the swaying factor for Atlanta to be the last English city left.

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Rols, Toronto was the other alternative to Athens, but the money promised from going to the US was the swaying factor for Atlanta to be the last English city left.

Melbourne thought it was a strong alternative as well.

Anyway, I still say the proximity of Montreal can't have helped Toronto. If Montreal had been a bit more distant, Toronto may well have been the winner of the Nth American contenders in that one.

I'll admit, though, the same could be said of LA '84-Atlanta. But the US is always a different case.

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Vancouver has staged successful Winter Games, there does not seem any desire to bid within the USOC, and the continental rotation will beg for Games in North America sometimes in the 2020s. If Quebec City's ambitions for the WOG are kept under control, I do think that a lot of stars are aligned for a successful Toronto bid in 2024 or 2028...

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Well I think we might know a little more about Toronto's intentions this upcoming week. I expect there to be a news article published in the Toronto Star or Globe & Mail talking about a possible Toronto bid considering Vancouver is coming to an end.

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I think it depends on the mayoral elections. Hopefully its someone with a little more vision than Dickhead Miller

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I agree with you Faster. Miller wasn't the best. I just wish we get a mayor with greater ambition to get things done here.

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Toronto, put your Olympic dreams aside for now and focus on making the most of the 2015 Pan Am Games. You're not winning an Olympic bid for at least 10-15 years. The Pan Am Games and the Vancouver Games are huge factors that both helps and hinders you.

Vancouver helps because Canada delivered a successful Olympic Games. Hinders because Canada delivered those Games. Pan Ams help because it gives Toronto a big multi-sport event to gain experience from, but it hinders because they are not going to mount a successful bid for 2020 at the same time they two years out from delivering said multi-sport event. Rio tried that for 2012 and they were quickly cut from the list.

The numbers don't favour it either.

If Toronto were to bid for the 2020 Games, that would mean in the 50 year period between Montreal's Olympic victory in 1970 and Toronto's potential hosting in 2020, Canada would have had four Olympic Games. A country of just over 30 million that falls somewhere between 15th and 20th in all time medal counts and only has two cities capable of hosting the Summer Games getting that many games in that short a time is just not happening that soon. Even if the timing seems right to go up against a blank slate from the United States, you just know that will be ammunition against Toronto by any other city bidding for the Games. With no games ever hosted in Africa, with Hungary, Poland, and Romania having big medal hauls but never hosted, with France and Sweden a century from their last hosting, with Germany, Japan and Italy half a century away, how can they go back to Canada so soon? And even though their Olympic record is weak, India, the Arab World and South East Asia have large populations and big interests in getting involved in the international community. Toronto, my dear, you have a lot going for you, but so much against you.

That goes for you, too, Quebec City.

So I think it is time for us Canadians to rest on our Vancouver laurels, pay off the bills, execute excellent Pan Ams for Toronto 2015, invest in our summer athletes, and then hedge our bids for nothing earlier than 2028.

And that will also give Quebec City 30 years to pile 30 meters of rock on top of Le Massif.

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There`s some pretty good points you brought up Kendegra. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the city mounts a bid. John Bitove is salivating at the chance of it.

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After going from bad press to eventually closing out the games with good press, I think we showed the world our games were the most "human" in recent years (borrowing a line from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan ;) ). I think the IOC realized this as well. I think this could work in Toronto's favour now and Toronto should continue persuing the summer games, and Quebec City should take a stab at a future winter games too.

There were some rumblings online that Quebec City was looking at building a new hockey arena to entice the NHL to come back and also to be part of a future bid for the winter games. This was fairly recent (within the past year), when all the Phoenix Coyotes stuff was going on.

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Well, Miller's surprise 2 year budget could well be an attempt to keep city money away from an Olympics bid, or so I've heard. BTW... the primary reason seems to be keep the unions safe from privatization for the immediate future.

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You've echoed my thoughts almost to a tee Sir..and I'd go so far as to say the IOC should go with Toronto as the next North American SOG host simply because the USOC and the various bids they've cobbled together since Atlanta have been duds.

Chicago may have been voted out in the first round, but their bid was not a dud.

Now if in the fortuitous circumstance a major US city such as NY, Chicago, Philadelphia or maybe even San Francisco or Seattle come at the task with a better constructed bid that has a more solid public/private partnership than previous bid models (and Atlanta's flawed games) then perhaps the race could be closer.

Forget Philadelphia. Booooorrrrring (and second rate). And "maybe even" San Francisco? San Francisco > Philadelphia (or even Boston). Seattle I could see, as it has a spectacular setting. But Philly is a second string city and has no sexy setting or aura about it. I think the next bid from the U.S. is likely either to be Chicago again, or San Francisco (if SF can get their sh*t together). Of course there is L.A.'s always standing-at-the-ready bid, but I don't think the IOC really wants to go back to L.A. (despite the financial success and salvation of the Olympic Movement.). The IOC really didn't want to go to L.A. in 1984 either. They just had no other choice. Plus L.A. city itself, is frankly, really ugly and does not provide a really attractive setting for an Olympic Games. As for NYC, the majority of New Yorkers could care less whether the city ever hosts an Olympic Games. As far as they are concerned, New York is already the center of the world.

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I still don't understand the comments from many that say Toronto is a NO for 2020? Why not? Some would argue that it is too close to Vancouver 2010 and most of that argument was based on the situation before those games began....and what a games it was!!!! Everything was completed, sure there were some changes to the schedules, but most winter games have had to do this. I didn't hear too many complaints from athletes that said "I lost today because of the schedule".

There has not been a North American city to host the SOG since 1996 (Atlanta) and this being said, it will be quite likely that a North American city should win the 2020 bid. If the US can host 1996 in Atlanta and then again in 2002 in Salt Lake (6 years apart), why can't Canada host 2010 in Vancouver and 2020 in Toronto (10 years apart)?

Who will be the likely candidates from North America for the 2020 race? The COC has already started the wheels for Toronto to bid for these games. I would think that the Americans will put up a candidate as well? Most likely recycling New York and Chicago, and possibly adding San Francisco. All the other talk from the US that includes Tulsa, etc. is just a joke!!!

What the US and Canada need to worry about is a bid from Mexico and/or the Caribbean countries. Jamaica and Cuba could host and would certainly benefit MORE than the other 2!!! Jamaica hosted a Commonwealth games, Cuba hosted a Pan Ams...so why not either of these two?

Toronto will be a strong competitor if they chose to bid for 2020. (city elections are coming up this year) So we will have to see if the new Mayor will promote this endeavour.

just a thought

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(city elections are coming up this year) So we will have to see if the new Mayor will promote this endeavour.

right, and canada had an onlympics this yr as well, too soon it still feels fresh. itd be stupid if toronto is awarded the 20s olympics b4 hosting the PAGs, so i dont think itll happen. =\

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It's not just Vancouver 2010. It's the fact that a Toronto bid would be underway in 2013, a mere 2 years from Toronto 2015, in which they would have to propose a 80,000 seater stadium for the 2020 games.

Sure, there's plenty of you out there that say the Pan Ams for Toronto is irrelevant, that Toronto didn't host such a thing prior to bidding for 1996 or 2008, nor do they need to do so in order to get such valuable experience or sporting infrastructure. But it seems silly to be proposing such a stadium when you aren't using one of such size for the 2015 Pan Ams. Ok so Hamilton needs a new stadium, there could have easily been 2 proposals, a new stadium for Toronto in hosting large scale Football and CFL (say at 40,000 or so, upgradable) and a new stadium in Hamilton for the their CFL side. It would cost more, but justify a 2020 bid in 2013 (comparable to Rio's bid for 2012 in 2015, 2 years before Rio 2007, where venues to be constructed or upgraded for the 2007 Rio Pan Ams, would have been further upgraded before a 2012 Olympics).

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And that will also give Quebec City 30 years to pile 30 meters of rock on top of Le Massif.

Le Massif doesn't need to be capped. It can host Women's Downhill and such.

It didn't take Quebec 30 years to cap the existing Le Massif for that 700 meters or so vertical now did it? :)

It's the undeveloped Cap du Salut that would be capped to have a minimum of 800 meters vertical drop for Men's Downhill. It can happen within the span of 7 years or so.

Edited by Lord David

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I still don't understand the comments from many that say Toronto is a NO for 2020?

It isn't just Vancouver 2010, for me Rio 2016 puts more of a damper on a North American 2020 bid. It is a time zone thing. The IOC probably won't vote for a consecutive SOG in Asia and Oceania anytime soon either. My guess is that 2020 is really between Europe, Asia and Africa.

I don't understand why Toronto would want to rush into a bid. The only reason would be getting in a race where the U.S. is not a competitor.

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It isn't just Vancouver 2010, for me Rio 2016 puts more of a damper on a North American 2020 bid. It is a time zone thing. The IOC probably won't vote for a consecutive SOG in Asia and Oceania anytime soon either. My guess is that 2020 is really between Europe, Asia and Africa.

I don't understand why Toronto would want to rush into a bid. The only reason would be getting in a race where the U.S. is not a competitor.

I agree. I don't think 2020 in impossible for Toronto, but it's dubious in terms of timing - more so than having to face a US competitor in the future. Toronto will always have to stand on its merits anyway - and i think always could be more than able to measure up against a rival US competitor.

Toronto, in the past, has seemed to be discouraged after losing their previous bids. Yo me it would also seem to be a bit of a pity if they went for 2020, missed out, then were disappointed and discouraged and sat out a better chance for themselves in 2024.

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I'm very curious about a Canada Summer Olympics bid:

- Do you guys have the same problem as the USOC in where to put the track and field events in your Olympic plan?

I would assume that Athletics took place at Olympic Stadium during the Montreal Games.

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I think wherever they plan to hold T&F for the Pan Ams, they should keep in mind a future summer bid using the same venue. Pan Am preps helped Rio tremendously, and it could help Toronto too.

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