Toronto?

[dave199]

And they are spreading a lot of lies lol. Quite pathetic if you ask me.

Fact is the following Pan Am Venues are good enough to be used:

-Caledon

-BMX

-Mountain biking

-Aquatics center (for synchro/diving)

-Pan Am Fields (field hockey)

-Rogers Center (can be split into two and used for two different arena sports)

-Velodrome (makes sense with Agenda 2020)

Probably the only new permanent build needed is the main stadium.

The seating capacity for the Aquatics venue and the Veledrome needs to expand. Both venues will need to be retrofitted to fit the new seating capacities. And is that possible?

Edited September 8, 2015 by dave199

[intoronto]

The seating capacity for the Aquatics venue and the Veledrome needs to expand. Both venues will need to be retrofitted to fit the new seating capacities.

Which at the end of the day will cost much less then rebuilding venues (Noto2024 has been fear mongering that new venues need to be built).

[LatinXTC]

-Rogers Center (can be split into two and used for two different arena sports)

Yea, that's probably not happening. The Blue Jays continued to play during the Pan American games and I don't envision them staying away from the stadium for too long for the Olympics either. They'll have to probably play away from home for the entire month depending on how long it would actually take to set up the stadium to be split in half for two events, if the IOC is even ok with such an outdated idea. The Blue Jays wouldn't go for it, and their fans would probably be furious at the decision.

[intoronto]

Yea, that's probably not happening. The Blue Jays continued to play during the Pan American games and I don't envision them staying away from the stadium for too long for the Olympics either. They'll have to probably play away from home for the entire month depending on how long it would actually take to set up the stadium to be split in half for two events, if the IOC is even ok with such an outdated idea. The Blue Jays wouldn't go for it, and their fans would probably be furious at the decision.

The Jays had one series during the Pan Ams at the Rogers Center.

[LatinXTC]

The Jays had one series during the Pan Ams at the Rogers Center.

Yes, they played during the Pan Am Games. That's what I just said.

[intoronto]

Yes, they played during the Pan Am Games. That's what I just said.

Point being if Rogers ends up supporting the games I don't see why moving the Jays for an extra series will cause too much problems.

[dave199]

Some information I'm getting from urbantoronto. One of the guys is quite trustworthy. And he's one of the people who mentioned that the bid would be announced Tuesday

Who told you about the Tuesday announcement?

With a brand new administration, it's taken me almost a year to gain new contacts. I'm sure you'll understand that I'll provide news to UrbanToronto without outing who's tipping it. You're free to question whether those tips are trustworthy or not. Go back a few pages and you'll find that I laid out the timeline which is now coming to fruition.

and someone else from UT. Seems to talk like he/she knows what's going down.

This is just like the night before nominations cut off for the mayoral race. We all knew what Ford was going to do but the press played it like a bombshell...

The bid letter needs to be signed by four people: Aubut (yes), Tory (yes), Wynne(?) and feds (can't until after Oct 19 so will get a pass). Therefore the announcement tomorrow is either that bid is a go, or that Wynne would support a bid should the city choose to proceed (and then have a formal celebration announcement later this week). There's no way that the press conference will be anything other than on the bid, so if there is a non-Olympic reason given expect a placed question from the press that lets her signal approval.

Expect more of the "just an expression of interest" language etc...

Don't forget that this is really Bob Richardson's bid - he was the man behind telling Tory to run for mayor and is a major internal force in the Liberal party. He's the guy who recruited Kouvalis to the Tory team, and who has been leading the TO2024 bid since 2011. What you have here is a master class in politics played by grownups.

Edited September 8, 2015 by dave199

[intoronto]

Venue plan just off the top of my head:

Aquatics
Diving/water polo = Pan Am Aquatics Center

Swimming/Synchro Swimming - Rogers Center

Archery - Varsity Stadium

Athletics - Olympic Stadium (NEW)

Badminton - Ryerson Athletic Center

Basketball - Air Canada Center

Boxing - Direct Energy Center Hall C

Canoeing sprint -Ashbridges Bay race course (NEW)

Canoe slalom - Minden

Cycling BMX - Centennial Park

Cycling Track - Milton Velodrome

Cycling Road - Toronto

Cycling Mountain bike - Hardwood

Equestrian - Caledon Equestrian Park

Fencing - Pan AM Field house

Field hockey - Pan Am Fields

Football - Ottawa, Hamilton, Olympic Stadium, BMO Field (later parts of the tournament), Montreal, Winnipeg

Golf - Any golf course in Toronto

Gymnastics - Direct Energy Center Hall A

Handball - Ricoh Coliseum

Judo - Metro Toronto Convention Center

Modern Pentathlon - Pan Am Aquatics Center and field house.

Rowing - Ashbridges Bay race course (NEW)

Rugby sevens - BMO Field

Sailing - Royal Canadian Yacht Club

Shooting - New Temporary shooting center (NEW, temporary) Portlands

Table tennis - Metro Toronto Convention Center

Taekwondo - Direct Energy Center Hall D

Tennis - Rexall Center

Triathlon - Ontario Place

Volleyball Indoor - Direct Energy Center Hall B

Volleyball Beach - Ashbridges Bay or CNE grounds (like Pan Am, temporary)

Weightlifting - Molson Ampitheatre

Wrestling - Direct Energy Center Hall D

4 new venues (two temporary). 3 venues outside the city limits (minus football).

[LatinXTC]

Ok, no on your plan for Rogers Centre. I don't know how long it took for Kazan to renovate Kazan Arena for this past World Aquatics Championships, but the current football league team that's supposed to be the permanent tenants of the stadium, haven't been able to use it since December, and won't be able to go back in there until March. I doubt that the Blue Jays would have to wait that long to use Rogers Centre again in that scenario, but no way in hell will two swimming pool setups take a couple of weeks to put up and then another couple of weeks to take apart. You're gonna have to come up with a more reasonable conversion than that, like a gymnastics/boxing setup. But either way, I don't envision Rogers Centre being used during the Olympics other than to hold Olympic baseball if it's ever re-instated.

[Nacre]

I see two issues.

1) You've mostly listed the easy venues. I can make a comparable list for cities like Stockholm or Minneapolis that are simply too small to ever host the current bloated version of the Olympics. The issues Toronto hasn't figured out are the most important ones; the athletics stadium, aquatics center, a second big arena for gymnastics (I seriously doubt you could fit a 15,000 capacity arena in the convention center), etc.

2) The sporting federations are going to raise hell about the size and facilities of many of the Pan-American venues. The velodrome in Milton, for example, would likely be the smallest in the history of the Olympics. (I can't find data for all of the early Olympic velodromes.) Toronto is going to have a hard time convincing the sporting federations to vote for them with small venues in its suburbs.

I want the IOC to vote for a modest plan in a democratic, international city like Toronto. I just don't think they will. A project with 1) many temporary venues, and 2) many venues half the size of those in Beijing, London and Rio would seem to have little chance of winning a highly contested race.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Nacre

[dave199]

I see two issues.

1) You've mostly listed the easy venues. I can make a comparable list for cities like Stockholm or Minneapolis that are simply too small to ever host the current bloated version of the Olympics. The issues Toronto hasn't figured out are the most important ones; the athletics stadium, aquatics center, a second big arena for gymnastics (I seriously doubt you could fit a 15,000 capacity arena in the convention center), etc.

2) The sporting federations are going to raise hell about the size and facilities of many of the Pan-American venues. The velodrome in Milton, for example, would likely be the smallest in the history of the Olympics. (I can't find data for all of the early Olympic velodromes.) Toronto is going to have a hard time convincing the sporting federations to vote for them with small venues in its suburbs.

I want the IOC to vote for a modest plan in a democratic, international city like Toronto. I just don't think they will. A project with 1) many temporary venues, and 2) many venues half the size of those in Beijing, London and Rio would seem to have little chance of winning a highly contested race.

Looking at the 2008 bid, Gymnastics was supposed to be in the Direct Energy Centre. I doubt things would change this time around. As for the seating capacity of some of the Pan Am facilities, I agree with you it will be a hard sell if they're kept at the current capacities. As I've mentioned earlier, the veledrome and Aquatics centre would need to be retrofitted. Realistically, I see another new Aquatic centre as part of this bid. The Scarborough Aquatic centre will be used for Water polo.

Edited September 8, 2015 by dave199

[LatinXTC]

I see two issues.

1) You've mostly listed the easy venues. I can make a comparable list for cities like Stockholm or Minneapolis that are simply too small to ever host the current bloated version of the Olympics. The issues Toronto hasn't figured out are the most important ones; the athletics stadium, aquatics center, a second big arena for gymnastics (I seriously doubt you could fit a 15,000 capacity arena in the convention center), etc.

2) The sporting federations are going to raise hell about the size and facilities of many of the Pan-American venues. The velodrome in Milton, for example, would likely be the smallest in the history of the Olympics. (I can't find data for all of the early Olympic velodromes.) Toronto is going to have a hard time convincing the sporting federations to vote for them with small venues in its suburbs.

I want the IOC to vote for a modest plan in a democratic, international city like Toronto. I just don't think they will. A project with 1) many temporary venues, and 2) many venues half the size of those in Beijing, London and Rio would seem to have little chance of winning a highly contested race.

When I first saw the list of Pan American Games venues I noticed two things. One, the plan was surprisingly way more spread out than it should have been, and it would never work for an Olympics. And another major thing is that if Toronto was ever serious about hosting the SOG, these facilities are way too small to ever hold most of the events and that I hope they took into consideration building them to be able to get a capacity increase. I highly doubt that most of them could be expanded to accommodate Olympic capacity requirements. Toronto would have to build quite a bit from scratch, similar to Rio for 2016. I don't doubt the ability of Toronto to do so, but I don't believe that the public would support the Olympics with all the necessary construction needed to be done. And right now, the IOC is taking consideration bringing down cost more than ever.

[dave199]

I highly doubt that most of them could be expanded to accommodate Olympic capacity requirements. Toronto would have to build quite a bit from scratch, similar to Rio for 2016. I don't doubt the ability of Toronto to do so, but I don't believe that the public would support the Olympics with all the necessary construction needed to be done. And right now, the IOC is taking consideration bringing down cost more than ever.

This article doesn't specify how much the Aquatic Centre can be expanded to but it does confirm it can be expanded from its 6,000 seat capacity.

Quote from a news article. The Aquatic Centre capacity can be expanded.

The shiny new Pan Am/Parapan Am Aquatic Centre and Field House is world-class and can expand its 6,000-seat capacity.

[LatinXTC]

This article doesn't specify how much the Aquatic Centre can be expanded to but it does confirm it can be expanded from its 6,000 seat capacity.

Quote from a news article. The Aquatic Centre capacity can be expanded.

The shiny new Pan Am/Parapan Am Aquatic Centre and Field House is world-class and can expand its 6,000-seat capacity.

And looking at the Aquatic facilities in London and Rio, they both have a capacity of 17.5k and 18k respectively. There's no details on how big the one in Tokyo will be. Surprisingly, those are bigger than the one that was used in Beijing. So unless Toronto will perform some engineering miracle and triple the seating capacity of that aquatic centre, that facility is a huge no for regular swimming and diving.

[GBModerator]

I'm just saying what I've been told and what I'm hearing through others who are getting information. I previously said there would be an announcement September 8th. Today I then find out from people in the press, a Press Conference has been called by John Tory and Kathleen Wynne, Both have had many meetings since the Pan Am Games finished about TO2024. Tory has had quite the busy week with his consultations and meetings with city councillors, business leaders, union leaders and many others to help with his decision. How much longer will he take? Will he announce right on September 15th? Or will he announce a week before the deadline? Anyways, the point I'm making is he's already made up his mind, he's great with his poker face but we all know if he wasn't going to sign off on the letter he would have made that public already.

I am quite certain from a very close source that there will be no bid announcement today.

Fern Hill. Not many are following them anyways. Their petition doesn't have a lot of signatures.

No, it's not Fern Hill - she told me so directly. She does not lead NoTO2024. Like I said, the movement is in the shadows.

[stryker]

I would think gymnastics, at least artistic and trampoline, would be held in the Air Canada Centre along with basketball. Keep rhythmic gymnastics in the Direct Energy Centre. The biggest problem though venue wise is going to be the main stadium. What team needs an 80,000+ stadium in Toronto? Forget about the NFL too, that is unless the Buffalo Bills or Jacksonville Jaguars decide to pack up and move though with the new Bills ownership there's a renewed commitment to keeping them in Buffalo.

[intoronto]

Nothing new, the mayor met the premier about the bid. The premier sounds like she is interested.

[dave199]

I'm done believing these people who say they know everything. Lol. I honestly thought they would announce their decision today. Sorry everyone for posting rumors that didn't come to fruition.

[mistercorporate]

To be fair Dave, you did say that there would be an announcement today and it would relate to the bid. The fact that the Premier is involved and it's still not a 'no' is still progress. Good to see they're actively working to get the business case developed.

[dave199]

Video of CBC interview with Marcel Aubut: Will Toronto make a bid to host 2024 Olympics?

Marcel Aubut, president of the Canadian Olympic Committee, speaks with CBC News Heather Hiscox, as the deadline looms

Edited September 9, 2015 by dave199

[intoronto]

"talk of the town during the IOC session" bodes well

[dave199]

I would think gymnastics, at least artistic and trampoline, would be held in the Air Canada Centre along with basketball. Keep rhythmic gymnastics in the Direct Energy Centre. The biggest problem though venue wise is going to be the main stadium. What team needs an 80,000+ stadium in Toronto? Forget about the NFL too, that is unless the Buffalo Bills or Jacksonville Jaguars decide to pack up and move though with the new Bills ownership there's a renewed commitment to keeping them in Buffalo.

The Jays come to mind as permanent tenants of the new stadium. It's well known they want a new home, baseball purpose stadium with grass. It will obviously have to be re-purposed for baseball afterwards.

[dave199]

Aubut confirms commitment to Toronto. The COC is pursuing a Summer Olympics and won't allow a Calgary or Quebec City Winter Olympic bid interfere.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/09/08/questions-linger-as-clock-ticks-down-on-toronto-2024-olympic-bid

TORONTO SHOULD HAVE SPOTLIGHT ALONE

Should Toronto decide to bid for the 2024 Summer Games, Marcel Aubut says other Canadian cities interested in hosting a Winter Olympic Games should take a step back for the greater good.

Both Quebec City and Calgary are rumoured to be considering bids for 2026.

“It’s not possible anymore to have two cities bidding — one for summer and one for winter,” the Canadian Olympic Committee president said Tuesday. “This is just impossible. This is crazy. We have to get 100% focus on one. Not only the organizing committee, or the bid committee, but everybody in the country should be focused on one.”

If Canada splits time, energy and resources by going after two Olympic Games, Aubut warns it risks losing out on both.

“You don’t beat them with two cities — one in winter and one in summer trying to get the best of all of it,” he said. “You will never get anything ... It’s not only Toronto but it’s Canada, bidding for getting the Summer Games. We’ve had two Winter (Games) before. It’s time for the east part of the country and time for Toronto and time for summer sport.”

Montreal is the last Canadian city to host a Summer Olympics in 1976. Canada hosted the Winter Olympics in Calgary (1988) and Vancouver (2010.

[monorail]

Marcel Aubut was apart of creating Agenda 2020? Didn't know that!

Aubut confirms commitment to Toronto. The COC is pursuing a Summer Olympics and won't allow a Calgary or Quebec City Winter Olympic bid interfere.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/09/08/questions-linger-as-clock-ticks-down-on-toronto-2024-olympic-bid

TORONTO SHOULD HAVE SPOTLIGHT ALONE

Should Toronto decide to bid for the 2024 Summer Games, Marcel Aubut says other Canadian cities interested in hosting a Winter Olympic Games should take a step back for the greater good.

Both Quebec City and Calgary are rumoured to be considering bids for 2026.

“It’s not possible anymore to have two cities bidding — one for summer and one for winter,” the Canadian Olympic Committee president said Tuesday. “This is just impossible. This is crazy. We have to get 100% focus on one. Not only the organizing committee, or the bid committee, but everybody in the country should be focused on one.”

If Canada splits time, energy and resources by going after two Olympic Games, Aubut warns it risks losing out on both.

“You don’t beat them with two cities — one in winter and one in summer trying to get the best of all of it,” he said. “You will never get anything ... It’s not only Toronto but it’s Canada, bidding for getting the Summer Games. We’ve had two Winter (Games) before. It’s time for the east part of the country and time for Toronto and time for summer sport.”

Montreal is the last Canadian city to host a Summer Olympics in 1976. Canada hosted the Winter Olympics in Calgary (1988) and Vancouver (2010.

Well atleast we know that if we do bid, that a Winter Olympic bid won't go on at the same time like Vancouver. Great news

"talk of the town during the IOC session" bodes well

Yes supposedly!

Speaking with CP24 on Tuesday afternoon, Canadian Olympic President Marcel Aubut said he is nonetheless confident that the city can follow the path of Rio de Janeiro and use a strong Pan American Games as a launching pad for a successful Olympic bid.

The final cost of the Pan Am Games have yet to be released, however Aubut predicted that they will be a success financially.

“I just arrived from Malaysia for the general assembly of the IOC and everybody was talking about the success of the Pan Am Games. It’s a huge card we have to play,” he said. “We could win this.”

Aubut, who has previously promised to throw the full power of his office behind a Toronto bid, added that he is “convinced” that changes to IOC rules will make hosting the games more affordable.

Among other changes, the IOC has shortened the bidding period and removed some of the restrictions on candidate cities to make the process more accessible.

“This is a moment where you can dream about having a huge profit on the operation and not spend unnecessarily,” Aubut said.

[monorail]

However, we all know there will be extremely positive things coming out of Aubut's mouth now since he wants this to happen.