ttwe Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 London being the last. London is in a different league though. It's like a Top 2 World City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 London being the last. London is in a different league though. It's like a Top 2 World City. So? History shows there is nothing stopping Durban from walking in and cleaning up 2024, leaving the likes of Chicago, Toronto and Paris in its wake. From all we've heard from Paris, it seems that they might even sit their own centennial year out. They of all know that the IOC owes them nothing on history (Athens 1996), will turn them down at their best (2012) and will choose a second-tier upstart over them (1992). Paris of all cities will be the most wary of South Africa's third largest city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 So? History shows there is nothing stopping Durban from walking in and cleaning up 2024, leaving the likes of Chicago, Toronto and Paris in its wake. From all we've heard from Paris, it seems that they might even sit their own centennial year out. They of all know that the IOC owes them nothing on history (Athens 1996), will turn them down at their best (2012) and will choose a second-tier upstart over them (1992). Paris of all cities will be the most wary of South Africa's third largest city. Then again we can't forget the Finnish food debacle and JAS's influence of the 1992 elections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Then again we can't forget the Finnish food debacle and JAS's influence of the 1992 elections True. But I'd say JAS influence on 1992 is comparable to the sentimental power of an African Olympics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttwe Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 So? History shows there is nothing stopping Durban from walking in and cleaning up 2024, leaving the likes of Chicago, Toronto and Paris in its wake. From all we've heard from Paris, it seems that they might even sit their own centennial year out. They of all know that the IOC owes them nothing on history (Athens 1996), will turn them down at their best (2012) and will choose a second-tier upstart over them (1992). Paris of all cities will be the most wary of South Africa's third largest city. With high profile cities bidding in 2024, I just can't see a city like Durban beating any of them out. It's a new frontier which carries a big amount of risk. They already took that risk with Rio. It should be atleast another decade before another new frontier like Africa is given a chance. Plus, there are much more pressing issues in Africa, an impoverished poor continent which has massive amounts of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord David Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Yes, but all Durban has for itself is a main stadium, main arena and perhaps a couple of scattered venues throughout the city. The recent IOC session there will help, but I doubt a first time bidder (2nd time country bidder) like Durban will make any dent on a refined past bidder. It all comes down to the bid, if the stadium and surroundings can be transformed into an Olympic Park, as opposed to just a small cluster and if the overall venue plan is neat, compact and could work, then maybe, but I still cast my doubts. Then again we can't forget the Finnish food debacle and JAS's influence of the 1992 elections Don't forget the British food debacle! Was it Silvio or Jacques or both who quipped that the 2nd worst food to Finnish cuisine is British food. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 And Rio, Sochi, & Beijing didn't carry "risk"?! Yet the IOC voted for them by a landslide, particularly Beijing & Rio. And voted for Sochi when they had no facilities whatsoever. And again, a Durban win would be all about an AFRICAN Olympics, not about being a "high profile" city. If that were SOLELY the case, then Africa should just put their tail between their legs now & call it a day, since there really isn't a top 10 global city on the continent as it is! Yes, but all Durban has for itself is a main stadium, And yet this is the main piece that most cities struggle with, & Durban already has it. Go figure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gucci Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 It's nice to read the pro's some of you've listed in Durban's defense such as the stadium being compatible for T&F, sport facilities, and the climate. But what else does it offer? Is spending billions on an Olympics a top priority for an African city? No one has really answered my previous question. I should rephrase it. What significance does Durban have in the world now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Yes, but all Durban has for itself is a main stadium, main arena and perhaps a couple of scattered venues throughout the city. The recent IOC session there will help, but I doubt a first time bidder (2nd time country bidder) like Durban will make any dent on a refined past bidder. It all comes down to the bid, if the stadium and surroundings can be transformed into an Olympic Park, as opposed to just a small cluster and if the overall venue plan is neat, compact and could work, then maybe, but I still cast my doubts. All they have to do is make the short list. If they can achieve that, sentiment then plays a far bigger part than venue plan. Just ask Rio. Don't forget the British food debacle! Was it Silvio or Jacques or both who quipped that the 2nd worst food to Finnish cuisine is British food. Not, just Chirac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord David Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Sochi was different, the IOC probably acknowledged Russia's time to host a Winter Olympics, having not done so before, as well as the failed Moscow 2012 bid. Not to mentioned that they were certainly wowed by the refined compact bid in the candidature, as opposed to "everything but the kitchen sink" approach of the applicant bid. Rio was boosted from past bid experiences and more importantly hosting of the 2007 Pan American Games. Beijing was more about Samaranch's legacy, as it was clearly IMO weaker than Toronto's bid in every way (even capacity wise). That being said, I still think a first time bidder like Durban will win, especially if another new frontier like Istanbul gets 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 But what else does it offer? Is spending billions on an Olympics a top priority for an African city? Is it a "top priority" for ANY city? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 No one has really answered my previous question. I should rephrase it. What significance does Durban have in the world now? It lets the IOC take the games to Africa, which they'd love to do. Is spending billions on an Olympics a top priority for an African city? Is it a priority for a Canadian city? There's be plenty of Torontans who'd argue the point I'm sure (as they did in Sydney, London, Chicago etc) that education, health and so on are more important even there than a games. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 No one has really answered my previous question. I should rephrase it. What significance does Durban have in the world now? Actually, plenty have answered your question. You're just refusing to accept the answers that have been given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gucci Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Is it a "top priority" for ANY city? Well with all the socio-economic problems in Africa, you'd think spending it on an Olympics would be the last thing on the list. And that's not even close to scrapping the bottom of the barrel with Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Sochi was different, the IOC probably acknowledged Russia's time to host a Winter Olympics, having not done so before, as well as the failed Moscow 2012 bid. Precisely the point. So why can't this parallel be applied to Durban & South Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 It's nice to read the pro's some of you've listed in Durban's defense such as the stadium being compatible for T&F, sport facilities, and the climate. But what else does it offer? Is spending billions on an Olympics a top priority for an African city? No one has really answered my previous question. I should rephrase it. What significance does Durban have in the world now? No need to rephrase anything, you don't seem to understand. Durban isn't as significant as Toronto on a global scale, true. Is that want you want us to concede? This isn't going to win Toronto the Olympics. Nor will "the best and most compact bid plan". History shows the IOC will turn this down in favour of a compelling story that can be marketed. Furthermore, global significance isn't the be-all-end-all. If that were the case Tokyo or Chicago would have had 2016, Rome would have taken 2004, and certainly Barcelona would not have pipped Paris for 1992. "Is spending billions a top priority for an African city" - this reeks of ignorance. Firstly, Durban is in South Africa, a relatively wealthy country and arguably the nation with the highest standard of living on the continent. Africa has its share of issues, but it can afford to stage the Olympics, if planned well. Sure it is a risk, but a Durban Olympics would an iconic, landmark Olympic Games, that would propel the city into the global sphere, and give meaning to its name. This is the significance of a Durban Olympic Games. It is a similar significance to a certain post-industrial, Spanish underdog the hosted 1992. It is these smaller cities that are changed the most from the Olympic Games. Now I'll ask you - what is so significant about Toronto? Aside from the capabilities it has inherited as a result of being in a wealthy, western country, what does Toronto have over Chicago, NYC, Paris, etc... and why Canada, again? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gucci Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Actually, plenty have answered your question. You're just refusing to accept the answers that have been given. I'm talking about the city's significance on the world stage? Who's looking out for Durban? I never hear about this city unless its discussed about here on these boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Well with all the socio-economic problems in Africa, you'd think spending it on an Olympics would be the last thing on the list. And that's not even close to scrapping the bottom of the barrel with Africa. The same could have,and was, said about the 2010 World Cup. When it comes to an Olympics (or a WC), the thing is there's a lot of symbolism in them beyond the mere fact it's a sports event. To many, many people, including the type of people who post here or get involved in the IOC or bid committees or OCOGs, moving them around the world is VERY important. The symbolism of taking Olympism to the last continent, Africa, is an intoxicating brew for many. And South Africa is the only one that is close to being able to do it - and they have expressed their ambitions to do so eventually, while the IOC has encouraged them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) This is going to be one of the reasons if and when Toronto wins. If not then it won't win. Nor will "the best and most compact bid plan". Edited January 3, 2013 by intoronto1125 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I'm talking about the city's significance on the world stage? Who's looking out for Durban? I never hear about this city unless its discussed about here on these boards. Then you must have a pretty limited knowledge of the world at large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 This is going to be one of the reasons why Toronto win. If not then it won't win. runningrings, on 03 Jan 2013 - 16:11, said: Nor will "the best and most compact bid plan". Name me a city that has won primarily because of a "compact bid plan". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) This is going to be one of the reasons why Toronto win. If not then it won't win. It wasn't enough in 2008, against Beijing. Why will be be enough in 2024 or 2028 against the potential likes of an African city, Paris, Chicago/NYC, Istanbul, Tokyo - all of which carry weight behind them that are comparable to what Beijing had in 2008. Furthermore, Toronto has 2010 to deal with, which it didn't have when it was bidding for 2008. Edited January 3, 2013 by runningrings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Is it a priority for a Canadian city? There's be plenty of Torontans who'd argue the point I'm sure (as they did in Sydney, London, Chicago etc) that education, health and so on are more important even there than a games. The Olympics are never a priority of any city. But there comes a point in time for many cities to host mega events to elevate the city to the next level. For the proposed Toronto 2020 Olympic bid when the city was mired in financial problems and 89% of people said they would support a bid. "In a survey conducted by Ipsos Reid for Global News, 89 per cent in the GTA support an Olympic bid led by a non-governmental group of business and community leaders." It wasn't enough in 2008, against Beijing. Why will be be enough in 2024 or 2028 against the potential likes of an African city, Paris, Chicago/NYC, Istanbul, Tokyo - all of which carry weight behind them that are comparable to what Beijing had in 2008. Furthermore, Toronto has 2010 to deal with, which it didn't have when it was bidding for 2008. Vancouver will definitely be a potential weakness for a potential Toronto bid. It might even be a strength due to the overwhelming success of them. But keeping in mind Summer and Winter Olympics are different events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) The Olympics are never a priority of any city. But there comes a point in time for many cities to host mega events to elevate the city to the next level. For the proposed Toronto 2020 Olympic bid when the city was mired in financial problems and 89% of people said they would support a bid. "In a survey conducted by Ipsos Reid for Global News, 89 per cent in the GTA support an Olympic bid led by a non-governmental group of business and community leaders." I'm sure 89% of Sydneysiders would support a bid for 2028 - doesn't mean it should happen, or if it did, that it should expect to be successful. This goes for Melbourne too. You want talk about compact bid plans -there is a city that could give Toronto a run for its money. Australians seem to be able to accept we've had our share of the cake, the fact that Canadian authorities are making vigorous plans to go ahead with another Olympic bid in the wake of 1976, 1988 and 2010 astounds me. Edited January 3, 2013 by runningrings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gucci Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 It wasn't enough in 2008, against Beijing. Why will be be enough in 2024 or 2028 against the potential likes of an African city, Paris, Chicago/NYC, Tokyo - all of which carry weight behind them that are comparable to what Beijing had in 2008. Furthermore, Toronto has the 2010 to deal with, which it didn't have when it was bidding for 2008. That's one thing that Toronto's bidding team would need to work hard on. Coming up with a compelling argument as to why the city should be awarded the games besides it probably having the best bid out of the bunch of candidates which in reality will probably be true. After all, the majority of votes is based on political b.s.. I will agree that will be difficult for the bid team to work on. I never did say Toronto would win 2024. I'm here as a supporter. The city has publicly made its intentions known that they're pursuing a bid for 2024. This is fact. Hence, why I'm here to discuss that. Maybe there is an ignorance toward Durban. I'm just being real, that's all and you guys definitely are informing me of things about the city that I didn't know..so yeah, it is ignorance. I still don't think Durban will be the far away favourite just because its Africa. Going to a new frontier so soon after Rio and potentially Istanbul seems very iffy to me. That view of mine won't change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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