Toronto?

[walei]

Found this unofficial site, mostly using info from the 2008 bid:

Toronto 2020

I think 2020 is too soon for Canada, and a Summer Games probably won't have the same effect as the Winter one in terms of bringing Canadians to rally together because Canada is not a powerhouse or even showing a lot of interests in summer sports comparing to winter ones like hockey.

But I do think Canada's next Olympic games should be a summer one and Toronto will be an inevitable host. I just wish I will still be young enough to do fist pumps. Hope it will happen before 2028...

Also, that logo on the official grassroots site is very 'meh'

[Soaring]

I think Toronto should bid sometime in the 2020's, but 2020 is definitely not optimal (even though we don't know the competition yet). The only reason why they should feel compelled to throw their hat in so soon, is for the simple reason that the U.S. will not be in the race.

[olympian]

One of the major advantages of a North American Olympics is that the local sports teams can plan accordingly when those Olympics actually come. And they have seven years to do so.

I believe the same situation came up during the Vancouver Olympics. The Canucks were on the road the opening weekend of the Olympics. In 1996, Baseball's Atlanta Braves were on the road for two weeks, in 2002, the NBA's Utah Jazz were also nomads for two weeks. I would guess that same applied to Dodgers and Angels in 1984. In Toronto's case, the Blue Jays would be on the road for two weeks.

If Toronto was to make a bid for the Winter Olympics, then the Maple Leafs and Raptors would be nomads.

Canucks were on the road for six weeks. longest road trip in NHL. that's what was reported.

[SkiFreak]

Also, that logo on the official grassroots site is very 'meh'

It's not bad. The tower might serve as inspiration for a plunger-style torch ala Calgary.

[mattperiolat]

I've seen some speculation that the Vancouver Games means it's unlikely for Toronto to be considered for 2020.

I respectfully disagree.

The SOG haven't been in Canada since 1976 for one and I would think that given what great hosts the Canadians were for Vancouver that that would be a plus for a potential Toronto bid. Plus, the bid plan for 2008 was very solid and, actually, one I favored, just JAS decided the Chinese were due.

I need to see who else is deciding to seriously bid, but I am at least interested in seeing the Olympics in Toronto, sooner rather than later.

[FYI]

Of course Toronto could be 'considered' for 2020 if the COC decides to place a bid. Whether they would get the Games, is a whole other story. Especially when Rio 2016 takes care of the Americas' for the next cycle, & Rome (one of only 2 confirmed bidders for 2020 thus far) is an early favorite to clench the 2020 Games.

[walei]

The bid process for 2020 starts in 2012 correct? That is just two years after Vancouver. Canadians need to be hyped up as early as the bid process to get public support, and I don't think in two years time Canada will be in the "we want it bad" mentality so close after Vancouver.

I would definitely be THRILLED if Toronto bids and win 2020 though!

[Guardian]

Well, Toronto does have the 2015 Pan American Games to prepare. If they play their cards right, it could repeat what Rio de Janeiro did, in winning the bid for the 2016 Olympic Games. It hosted the 2007 Pan American Games and it will use most or all the venues used for those Games to host the Olympic Games. 2020 may be a bit much to consider, but 2024 is a possibility.

[Lachie]

If Canada made a bid, would that cause USOC to bid to, knowing that if Canada wins, it would further delay the US of hosting a SGs for another few cycles...

[Soaring]

If Canada made a bid, would that cause USOC to bid to, knowing that if Canada wins, it would further delay the US of hosting a SGs for another few cycles...

It most certainly would change the dynamics of any race with the USA, but I don't think we would jump on the bidding band wagon if Toronto placed a bid for 2020. After two races each with less than 20 votes, the USOC seems to not be in the mood to lose three times in row. It is also going to be hard to convince a top tier city to throw their hats (and wallets) into another bid for 2020.

I think the best chances for Toronto or a U.S. bid is to wait it out until 2028. My opinion can change depending on how 2020 shapes up. The only thing that would cause me to consider a 2024 bid is if a European city won for 2020, and no South African city places a bid for 2024.

[rjmac]

I keep saying this and I keep hearing the same arguements. Toronto has as much of a chance to win 2020 if they choose to bid for it!!! Arguements about that it would be too close to Vancouver 2010 or the PanAms in 2015 don't really make that much sense based on previous bid winners. In fact, one post actually mentioned that 2020 will be in Europe because the European IOC voters expect the games every ten years... absurd.

IF and I say "if" Toronto were to bid for 2020? This bid would resemble what they put forth for the 2008 bid (close to the waterfront, near the downtown core and quite accessible to Public Transit and Hotels). This land has barely been touch and has "Olympics" written all over it! In fact, none of this area is being used for the 2015 PanAM Games.

Toronto will build a NEW Athletics Facility that will be used for Track and Field, Opening/Closing Ceremonies and the Football (soccer) Final (the PanAM facility will not be used except for soccer and maybe Field Hockey). They will build a NEW Aquatic Centre that will host Swimming and Diving. (the new UofT Centre will host synchro and Water Polo events) Toronto will not need a Veledrome since a new one is being built in Hamilton. (Keep in mind that Hamilton is close to Toronto.... and in 1976, the Sailing events were not held in Montreal!!! They were held in Kingston, Ontario.

Rio won the 2016 Games based on two facts... the continent had never hosted a SOG and they had the facilities built after they hosted the PanAM Games in 2007. Toronto has hosted several World Class Triathlons on the Lake Ontario Waterfront so I can see Ontario Place running this (as well as Beach Vball)

As for the other events needed... Toronto has pretty much everything in place to do this (or will have these facilities completed) well before the IOC makes their visits to inspect the projects that will be needed for a successfull games. As for Finances, you can see it anyway you want? Canada is practically the only country in the World that didn't really suffer over the recession of 2009-10. (we saw few to none forclosures on houses because of ridiculous banks lending money to people who couldn't afford it)

Lastly... to those people who mentioned spending the money on those less fortunate instead of "wasting" money on this bid effort or establishing the games if they are actually won.... I have to note the buses of the homeless moved out of Atlanta and Beijing before the games began (so that foreign visitors would not feel uncomfortable) How much money did that cost???

Based on the Cities that have expressed an interest in bidding, it seems that Toronto will have a very good shot at winning. Look at the Toronto bid book from 2008's bid and discuss the "flaws"? Even though the IOC stated they had the best "compact" bid for 2008!!! (and were approached by many IOC members with the sentiment that they should come back VERY soon) 2020 is VERY soon!!!

2008's bid was bad timing for Toronto (or any other city) with Beijings bid. It was time that the IOC went to the most populous country in the world for 2008. With that being said, it was with the same sentiment that Rio is hosting 2016 (time to go to South America). With that being said, some might argue that Africa will be the next move? I cannot see this before the 2030's or before the Continent is at least even close to the financial viability as South America (not just one or two countries)

That is my opinion and it seems quite logical. Winning a bid for an Olympic Games is almost always a popularity contest. The best bid doesn't always win and the IOC is very unpredictable!!! (ask Paris) You cannot win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket!!! This IS a lottery!!! You might have the most ticket (or votes) but the numbers change and just when you think you have it "in the bag" you lose!!! (ask Paris... or even Athens in 1996)

So state your opinions based on facts... not just "it's this continents time"? Look at the positives for each potential bid and weigh them against the other bids. Then come to your conclusions

[walei]

So Toronto supporters, what would be the most likely scenario for the upcoming Winter/Summer bids that will allow a Toronto win for the SOG ASAP?

My idea:

2018: Pyeong Chang

2020: Durban

2022: Europe

2024: Toronto

[Soaring]

If a non-European city wins 2020, 2024 is likely to go to Europe regardless of who wins the Winter Games. The IOC has never gone more than two cycles without returning to Europe.

I think the best scenario for a Toronto bid would be for Europe to win 2020, and no African or U.S. city bids for 2024. But there could still be tough competition from Japan for 2024 (especially if they lose a bid in 2020).

[Triffle]

If the IOC decide not to award consecutive games to developing nations (say South Africa, India or Turkey) then I think Tokyo will have to be the favourite for 2020.

Just assuming its a battle between developed cities, I honestly cannot imagine a strong reason as to why the IOC would and should award Toronto the Olympics over Tokyo.

i'll expand later

[Triffle]

Consider that Tokyo trumps Toronto in terms of:

Population

- the Tokyo Metropolitan Area's population is more than 6 times the size of Greater Toronto

- Japan's population is more than 3 times the size of Canada's

Economy

- Tokyo was described by Saskia Sassen as one of the three command cities of the world economy

- Tokyo is ranked by PriceWaterCooperHouse as the world's richest city by total GDP; while Toronto is No.22

- Japan has the world's third largest GDP, compared with Canada at 10

- Japanese citizens are marginally wealthier than Canadians

Influence

- Tokyo is the capital city of one of the world's most powerful nations (3 largest economy, 10th largest population)

- Tokyo was ranked No.3 among global cities by "Foreign Policy" while Toronto was 14

Sport

- Japan has historically performed better at the Summer Olympics than Canada (123 gold vs 58)

- Tokyo has hosted the 1964 Olympics and co-hosted the 2002 FIFA World Cup; while the biggest event Toronto has hosted was the Pan American Games

Infrastructure

- Tokyo has probably the best public transport system in the world; while Toronto is very much a car dependant metropolis

- Tokyo's existing stadia is already better than Toronto's

- Additional stadia will be less likely to become "white elephants" in the world's largest city than Toronto

- Tokyo must be considered more reliable than Toronto in delivering facilities on schedule

Timezone

- 2020 would be 12 years since another Olympics was hosted in a similar timezone to Tokyo's; while it would be just 4 years for Toronto

Drought

- Japan's drought for hosting Summer Olympic Games is 12 years longer than Canada's

- Japan's drought for hosting any Olympic Games is also 12 years longer

[walei]

Thanks for the comparison Triffle, so how would you or others compare the Tokyo 2016 bid to Toronto 2008 bid?

Tokyo will be a strong contender, so for those of us rooting for Toronto it's also probably better for Toronto that if Pyeong Chang wins in 2018. I don't see the IOC give 2020 to Asia again if Asia gets 2018.

[Triffle]

I think they both had similarities don't you think? Both were strong technical bids but with unfortunate timing. Beijing was always going to win 2008, while it appears the IOC, particularly after FIFA 's continental rotation, was determined to send the Olympics to a "new frontier"; and with Rio de Janeiro presenting a strong bid, this desire was met while a former host in Tokyo had little chance.

i don't really see Pyeongchang possibly hosting the 2018 winter olympics as being a big issue; certainly no bigger issue than Canada hosting a winter and then summer Olympics just 10 years apart. Especially considering Brazil will host the 2014 World Cup yet was still successful in its Olympic bid; the 2004/2006 Olympics' were both in Europe as are 2012/2014. Also considering that East Asia is the most populous region in the world and consequently has the largest television market; a market that may not be as lucrative as the USA or Europe currently, but will be in 20 years as the national economies continue to surge. And surely the IOC would want to capitalise and strength the Olympic product in this region for the future. Asia has also been severely overlooked in hosting Olympic Games; just 5 Games in a region accounting for 55% of humanity; so a rare winter/summer games double shouldn't be a concern.

[walei]

I don't think you can compare East Asia to Europe though because realistically there are only three countries that are capable of hosting Olympics (China/Japan/Korea). It doesn't matter if Asia counts as 55% of the human population when only three countries compare to about a dozen European countries could host. Regarding Brazil for WC/OG, I don't really think IOC cares that much.

At the same time I don't think COC will even bid for 2020 because like I said before, the bid process will start in 2012 and I don't see the Canadian public want it bad enough so soon after Vancouver. 2024 however is very possible. If Rome can be considered a strong threat to win in 2020, 14 years after Torino, so can Toronto.

But I am interested in knowing how Tokyo's bid and Toronto's bid would compare facing one another 'technically', geopolitics and bid timing aside (the Beijing - Rio screw over ).

[FYI]

If Rome can be considered a strong threat to win in 2020, 14 years after Torino, so can Toronto.

Canada, though, doesn't have FIVE IOC members on it's roster, like Italy does (the most of any other country). And one of them, Mario Pescante, being very powerful & influential.

Canada only has half the population of Italy. Canada last hosted the Summer Olympics 20 years AFTER Italy hosted it's last Summer Games.

Canada doesn't do as well as Italy does at the Summer Games. And Canada, for a country of it's smaller size, has had a very good share of the Olympic spotlight.

So trying to compare the 2 scenarios is apples & oranges.

[Detroit]

To just put this out there, people say its going to Africa because its never been there. What about the Middle East?(Yes I know some of Africa is in the Middle east) One place that would satisfy both is Cairo, with the river. Or Alexandria because its on the coast. Algiers could also do it. viable?

[Sir Rols]

One place that would satisfy both is Cairo, with the river. Or Alexandria because its on the coast. Algiers could also do it. viable?

Viable? No, no and no.

[FYI]

Cairo MAYBE, N that's a big maybe. But Algiers, no fricken way.

Besides, I would consider an African Olympics to be a Sub-Saharan one, simply for the reason you cited, because North Africa would be more Middle Eastern than "African".

[CanisMinor]

Cairo MAYBE, N that's a big maybe. But Algiers, no fricken way.

Besides, I would consider an African Olympics to be a Sub-Saharan one, simply for the reason you cited, because North Africa would be more Middle Eastern than "African".

There is no way that Cairo can do this. No way at all.

Also agree with you that an African Olympics will really only be viewed as "done" when it gets to Sub-Saharan Africa. Any North-African Olympics will look like a Middle-East Olympics, in which case the IOC would likely go to Dubai or Doha than take the massive, massive risk of sending it to Cairo.

[Techno Dragon]

nope - I tend to get the feeling any Toronto bid would have to come with a commitment of zero or near zero dollars with Ford in house, which would put a 2020 bid likely out of reach. Toronto is about to get the ride of its life over the next 4 years...

[walei]

nope - I tend to get the feeling any Toronto bid would have to come with a commitment of zero or near zero dollars with Ford in house, which would put a 2020 bid likely out of reach. Toronto is about to get the ride of its life over the next 4 years...

Unfortunately I agree with you... I don't see the new Mayor supporting an Olympic. Toronto should go for 2024 anyways so hope Ford won't do too much damage to the city in the next four years.