Toronto?

[LuigiVercotti]

So, let's assume that the rabid pack dogs of the British media settle down and at the closing ceremony of Vancouver 2010 JR gets up (after Neil Young has serenaded the IOC membership with 'Rocking in the Free World') and says these have been a successful Olympics, then goes and has a quiet word to COC prez Marcel Aubut and says 'Allors mes ami, how aboot another bid from Toronto'? Will...

• Toronto think about bidding again (say for 2024 or later)
  
• Be a better potential bid than say a return to Montreal
  
• Have a chance of winning after a couple of bids have gone awry
  
• Be an alternate for those elements in the IOC that certain Chicago boosters think has it in for the US, hence could be a North American compormise host
  

Cheers

[Sir Rols]

I think you'll find, Seb, that with our large Canadian contingent at GB, this is one topic that gets regularly done to death. I guess it's the mainstay of the board since it was founded for Toronto 2008.

It's fair enough to say, I suppose, that it's a race between the US and Canada for who gets the next Summer Games in the Western Hemisphere. And like any race, it'll all be about timing (something Toronto never has been mixed in with its previous bids - 1996 might have been worth a shot, but 2008 against Beijing?? I guess they were just hoping for it to get shot down and them left to pick up the pieces). Rio's made it that more difficult for our North American dreamers to get too excited about 2020, so I guess we're looking 2024 onwards.

The whole US side of the equation is open and gets dealt with all over the place here. I'm sure we can expect a Summer or a Winter games (or both) from the US in the next decade or two.

For Canada, I think Montreal's out. After the legendary Big Owe, I can't see the stomach for it, and then there's the freshness value of a repeat host versus a shiny new Toronto hosting. It looks like Franco-Canadian ambitions are aiming towards a Quebec City winter games.

Which really for Canada only leaves Toronto itself. Definitely I can see it. It's one of those potential hosts that has a certain air of inevitability about it eventually. When, is anyone's guess. I probably expect the Pan-Ams (which stymie any immediate chances of a bid) to in the long-term lay the foundations for facilities and desire for a summer bid. I expect a lot of people will be half hoping and waiting for them to go for it anytime from 2024 onwards. Their chances depend on who their up against, and what enthusiasm they can muster domestically. Could they beat a US candidate? You bet! Especially if the US gets a WOGs soon, and depending on the US contender.

Stay tuned. If Toronto even breathes of a bid, you'll hear breathlessly about it here first!

[LuigiVercotti]

I think you'll find, Seb, that with our large Canadian contingent at GB, this is one topic that gets regularly done to death. I guess it's the mainstay of the board since it was founded for Toronto 2008.

It's fair enough to say, I suppose, that it's a race between the US and Canada for who gets the next Summer Games in the Western Hemisphere. And like any race, it'll all be about timing (something Toronto never has been mixed in with its previous bids - 1996 might have been worth a shot, but 2008 against Beijing?? I guess they were just hoping for it to get shot down and them left to pick up the pieces). Rio's made it that more difficult for our North American dreamers to get too excited about 2020, so I guess we're looking 2024 onwards.

The whole US side of the equation is open and gets dealt with all over the place here. I'm sure we can expect a Summer or a Winter games (or both) from the US in the next decade or two.

For Canada, I think Montreal's out. After the legendary Big Owe, I can't see the stomach for it, and then there's the freshness value of a repeat host versus a shiny new Toronto hosting. It looks like Franco-Canadian ambitions are aiming towards a Quebec City winter games.

Which really for Canada only leaves Toronto itself. Definitely I can see it. It's one of those potential hosts that has a certain air of inevitability about it eventually. When, is anyone's guess. I probably expect the Pan-Ams (which stymie any immediate chances of a bid) to in the long-term lay the foundations for facilities and desire for a summer bid. I expect a lot of people will be half hoping and waiting for them to go for it anytime from 2024 onwards. Their chances depend on who their up against, and what enthusiasm they can muster domestically. Could they beat a US candidate? You bet! Especially if the US gets a WOGs soon, and depending on the US contender.

Stay tuned. If Toronto even breathes of a bid, you'll hear breathlessly about it here first!

You've echoed my thoughts almost to a tee Sir..and I'd go so far as to say the IOC should go with Toronto as the next North American SOG host simply because the USOC and the various bids they've cobbled together since Atlanta have been duds. Now if in the fortuitous circumstance a major US city such as NY, Chicago, Philadelphia or maybe even San Francisco or Seattle come at the task with a better constructed bid that has a more solid public/private partnership than previous bid models (and Atlanta's flawed games) then perhaps the race could be closer. But in my opinion that's as likely as VANOC getting a pass mark from the British media.

Of course the more vital piece in the jigsaw is domestic support. How bid weary are Toronto's good burghers, and how much economic and political will would there be in Canada to go for a SOG with Vancouver a relatively short term memory (and maybe a slightly unhappy one at that if 'own the podium' goes awry and other issues emerge). How would you feel as a local Toronto tax payer being asked by some local big nobs that 'Hey, we didn't get em in 96 when we should have, we didn't get them in 08 when those Commie bastards bribed the IOC...so how about a third shot?'.

[Lord David]

Another Montreal won't happen for a long time.

Even if they reverted the stadium to 1976 Olympic capacity, it would still hold at most 58,500, 1,500 short of 60,000, about 20,000 short of what you expect from a Modern North American Olympic Stadium. Yes, 60,000 is the minimum capacity, but for a first rate city like Montreal, it's a little low.

Not to mention that the Aquatic Center might want to be reverted to at least 5,000 for hosting of some aquatic events, with a new Aquatics hall built for the games. The Velodrome is gone, so it would mean a new facility, and I suppose to tackle the other indoor sports, a new exhibition building might be considered.

All in all, Montreal wouldn't want the needless expense of building new venues just because much of the 1976 venues have been altered.

Oh and one more thing, the roof won't retract, a thing it should have done during the 1976 Olympics, particularly during the Opening or Closing Ceremonies.

Toronto would be the first choice should the COC want a Summer Games again, but can the likes of Edmonton, Vancouver or even my somewhat crazy Quebec City bid, be considered should Toronto not make the mark?

[Sir Rols]

Toronto would be the first choice should the COC want a Summer Games again, but can the likes of Edmonton, Vancouver or even my somewhat crazy Quebec City bid, be considered should Toronto not make the mark?

No

[Faster]

I think Vancouver has pretty much ruined any chance of a Toronto bid or success in a long time. I don't see another Canadian games until the 2040's now.

[LuigiVercotti]

I think Vancouver has pretty much ruined any chance of a Toronto bid or success in a long time. I don't see another Canadian games until the 2040's now.

How so Faster? The rep of the 2010 Games? Money? Political unwillingness?

[Lord David]

No

But Edmonton has an Olympic size stadium that could be upgraded to well over 70,000 and can be roofed (for the stands). Then you got the potential of a new arena and perhaps even an exhibition center to boost the bid.

[Sir Rols]

But Edmonton has an Olympic size stadium that could be upgraded to well over 70,000 and can be roofed (for the stands). Then you got the potential of a new arena and perhaps even an exhibition center to boost the bid.

Yeah, but it's a boring town in the middle of nowhere.

[Lord David]

No

But Edmonton has an Olympic size stadium that could be upgraded to well over 70,000 and can be roofed (for the stands). Then you got the potential of a new arena and perhaps even an exhibition center to boost the bid.

[Techno Dragon]

We'll find out soon. I fully expect this question of Olympic bid support to be brought up in one of the Debates later this year... I'm, and a couple friends are working hard on this. Its known the COC wants a 2020 and/or a 2024 bid, and its working hard on the inside on this. This city is close to getting a NFL team... the issue that keeps being brought is a stadium, and an olympic bid could quell this problem. The question marks are how the 2015 Pan Ams could impact a 2020 bid. Vancouver will have a small impact... I dont believe this will have as large as effect as some people believe. So in short, come January 2011 we'll have a lot better idea.

[Sir Rols]

We'll find out soon. I fully expect this question of Olympic bid support to be brought up in one of the Debates later this year... I'm, and a couple friends are working hard on this. Its known the COC wants a 2020 and/or a 2024 bid, and its working hard on the inside on this. This city is close to getting a NFL team... the issue that keeps being brought is a stadium, and an olympic bid could quell this problem. The question marks are how the 2015 Pan Ams could impact a 2020 bid. Vancouver will have a small impact... I dont believe this will have as large as effect as some people believe. So in short, come January 2011 we'll have a lot better idea.

How would this fit in with such plans?

City picks west harbour site for Pan Am stadium

February 18, 2010

Emma Reilly

The Hamilton Spectator

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/723814

The city has approved the West Harbour as the future site of the Pan Am Games stadium.

The motion passed 10-5 with Councillors Bob Bratina, Brad Clark, Margaret McCarthy, Brian McHattie, and Sam Merulla voting against the location. Councillor David Mitchell was absent.

The city is still waiting to hear what the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and other private partners can bring to the table to build a larger, 25,000-seat, $150-million version of the stadium as the new home for the Ticats.

The Pan Am plan calls for a 15,000-seat, $102-million stadium to stage track and field, the premier sport of the Games.

[LuigiVercotti]

We'll find out soon. I fully expect this question of Olympic bid support to be brought up in one of the Debates later this year... I'm, and a couple friends are working hard on this. Its known the COC wants a 2020 and/or a 2024 bid, and its working hard on the inside on this. This city is close to getting a NFL team... the issue that keeps being brought is a stadium, and an olympic bid could quell this problem. The question marks are how the 2015 Pan Ams could impact a 2020 bid. Vancouver will have a small impact... I dont believe this will have as large as effect as some people believe. So in short, come January 2011 we'll have a lot better idea.

What's the mood vis-a-vis 1996/2008, insofar as 'why do we want to give the IOC more money/attention etc?' amongst your average Toronto folk? Is there such a drive to get the games as per some of the other multiple bid cities, where it's arguably a quixotic obsession (Manchester anyone?), or something being pumped by a small cadre of boosters?

[dave199]

The only benefits Toronto will get out of hosting the Pan Am games is the brand new Aquatic facility on University of Toronto's Scarbourough Campus, improvements to transportation infrastructure, and a whole bunch of venues that would be used for training during an Olympics. Toronto will still need to build a lot of new venues when they bid for an Olympics including a Stadium, Veledrome and I'm pretty sure they'll build a brand new Aquatic Centre for the games as well and use the Scarbourough location as a training venue. Overall, the best thing Toronto can get out of the 2015 Pan American Games is the experience in hosting an International Multi Sporting event. That will look good on its resume.

With that said, I think Toronto will opt out of 2020 and put forth its candidacy for 2024. I actually wouldn't be surprised if they tried for 2020 but I think it would be more wise and wait for 2024. I don't think the USA are bidding for 2020 so Toronto won't be shut out from entering for 2024.

[dave199]

What's the mood vis-a-vis 1996/2008, insofar as 'why do we want to give the IOC more money/attention etc?' amongst your average Toronto folk? Is there such a drive to get the games as per some of the other multiple bid cities, where it's arguably a quixotic obsession (Manchester anyone?), or something being pumped by a small cadre of boosters?

I would say there is a big group of supports of a Toronto Olympics then like any other city you have your NIMBYS that keep bringing up the same arguments about how expensive hosting the games are, that it's a waste of money and the money should be used to help the poor and bums off the street, etc.

Overall, Toronto has had strong support in its past bid so I don't see it being any different.

[Apple]

Toronto will still need to build a lot of new venues when they bid for an Olympics including a Stadium, Veledrome and I'm pretty sure they'll build a brand new Aquatic Centre for the games as well and use the Scarbourough location as a training venue.

Think Toronto will need a Velodrome after they build one in Hamilton? There's only one international size Velodrome in North America and it's in LA, soon they'll be two with Hamilton's. Hamilton has been building itself up as a cycling centre for Canada, with road cycling (thanks to the Niagara Escarpment) and now a Velodrome.

[dave199]

Toronto wants their own Veledrome

[cslopes54]

y would Toronto be chosen over many other major cities that do want to host the games as well? or ones that havent in a long time. from 2010-2020 that would be 3 major sporting events in such a short time. and the 2020 sog awarding will take place in 2013, Toronto wont even be done for 2015 and vancouver 2010 is fresh. 2010-WOG, 2013-SOG AWARDING, 2015-PAG, all this happening in 5 yrs , Isnt canada having too much?

[FYI]

But Edmonton has an Olympic size stadium that could be upgraded to well over 70,000 and can be roofed (for the stands). Then you got the potential of a new arena and perhaps even an exhibition center to boost the bid.

Why do you always bolster such mediocre (at best) cities that would virtually have no chance in the international arena (Baku, Edmonton)?

Toronto (since Montreal already hosted) is really Canada's only option now for a Summer Bid.

The Edmonton's & Baku's of the world fall perfectly in-line with the Seville's, Leipzig's, Birmingham's, Manchester's, Minneapolis', Tulsa's & Lille's of the landscape. No chances whatsoever.

[stryker]

WIth the U.S. out of the running for 2020, the time for Toronto to give it a another go around would be now.

[dave199]

WIth the U.S. out of the running for 2020, the time for Toronto to give it a another go around would be now.

Who knows what's really going to happen. I still think Toronto will wait to bid for 2024 though.

[Sir Rols]

WIth the U.S. out of the running for 2020, the time for Toronto to give it a another go around would be now.

Dunno. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but I don't think 2020 would be advantageous for an Americas candidate, even if it was north to Rio's south. And I wouldn't wanna see Toronto lose and be discrouraged from persevering again.

[dave199]

When is the deadline for cities to let their intentions to bid for 2020 be known to the IOC?

[dave199]

Just putting this question out there.

What are the opinions of the members here? Would Toronto stand a good chance? Should the city even waste its time, money and resources for a 2020 bid?

[NY20??]

When is the deadline for cities to let their intentions to bid for 2020 be known to the IOC?

Wouldn't it be soon after the 2018 decision? So sometime towards the latter end of 2011 I think.