baron-pierreIV Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) I would've scored Tess-Scott #1; the Russians #2, and agree with Davis-White (3) and Belbin-Agosto #4. I actually guessed Tanith-Ben's score at 40 and Scott & Tess' at 42. I think it'll be down to the Russkies, Virtue-Moir & Davis-White. I am really sorry that Belbin-Agosto have deteriorated with the change of coaches. Apparently Shpilband-Zueva were better than Linichuk-Karpnosov (who seem to be favoring fellow-Russians Domina-& partner) over Belbin-Agosto. Of all the men, Moir really cuts a nice figure even tho he's not that tall. He's even more supple than Schoenfelder or Shiliband. We'll see how the Original Dance plays out on Sunday. [Was most surprised by the Georgian Ice dancing couple. Did you guys see them? For those of you who didn't, the "Georgian" woman is a sister of the American-Japanese brother & sister duo (the Reeds) who compete for Japan. She is a very mature 15-year old. My neighbors upstairs are also called Reed but they are boors compared to this ice-dancing family.) Edited February 20, 2010 by baron-pierreIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I think the judging in figure skating will be always an issue - I wasn't really a fan of Plushenkos free programme in Vancouver, but he raised a very interesting question... How should be there a progress in the skating techniques, when the quadruple jumps are not relatively counted in the judging system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 How should be there a progress in the skating techniques, when the quadruple jumps are not relatively counted in the judging system? No; the quad was counted but OVERALL, Lysacek just delivered a better performance than Yevgeny. Yevgeny & the Russkies are just being poor losers. And as Lysacek said in an interview, the performance ISN'T based on ONE move. It's a 4-1/2 minute performance where you have to present a whole package and BE JUDGED for it. And apparently now, the skaters and their coaches & federations can ask for the scoresheets and look over the scores themselves. The ISU will have to guard vs. a lot of harrassment in 4 years' time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) like I have said I didn't like Plushenkos' free programme and I think Lysacek is the deserved Olympic Champion, but I think it is always important to challenge a judging system - when we recocnise in four/six years that there are no changes in the technique level in figure skating or even a regress then we should think about the judging system... Edited February 20, 2010 by Citius Altius Fortius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldvideos Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I think the judging in figure skating will be always an issue - I wasn't really a fan of Plushenkos free programme in Vancouver, but he raised a very interesting question... How should be there a progress in the skating techniques, when the quadruple jumps are not relatively counted in the judging system? I think there is progress in skating. For 50 years or more the ISU has been giving lip service to the idea that figure skating includes both spins and footwork as well as jumps. We used to see skaters win with simply terrible spins and no footwork. One of the good thing about this scoring system is it finally puts some teeth in the need for an overall performance. It's so nice to see real effort put into the other elements of skating. At one point several years ago, I wondered if spins and footwork would start to disappear. So the pendulum has swung in one direction. With the comments of Plushenko and Stojko, it may start to swing back the other way. Great. Finally, Lysacek and Plushenko skated under the same scoring system. Evan (and Frank Carroll) paid attention to gaining points. Plushenko (and Mishin) thought he didn't have to pay as much attention. He was wrong. He could have garnered more points - especially in the second half of the program. He didn't. Evan won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Inspire~ Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 How should be there a progress in the skating techniques, when the quadruple jumps are not relatively counted in the judging system? I think the quad is good to have, but its not the most important thing. As Evan proved, with the new scoring system, everything is rewarded in your routine, use of your edges, transitions, etc - and that is why Evan won. He presented the best overall routine to the judges and he was rewarded for that. With the old scoring system I think the quad was more of a prestige thing, and the judging was a lot more subjective then, so without a quad the judges wouldn't even give you a second look or even consider giving you top marks, if you didn't have that 4 rotation jump. That being said there are some excellent skaters in the world that are still young. After these Olympics, I would like to see skaters like Patrick Chan (Canada) start to work on a quad, because as Evgeni pointed out it is the future of the sport, and some people need to push the envelope for the sport to grow. 4 years, is a good amount of time to work on developping a new skill, without neglecting artistry, footwork or any of the other skills that the top skaters need to have. I would be disappointed if Patrick Chan, Evan Lysachek, etc who have proven they can be at the top of the world without the quad, chose not to work on the skill, because then it would appear that they are being complacent. Once you do have excellent skating skills, jumps do play a role and just like skaters should strive to earn level 4s for their footwork sequences, they should also develop their jumping skills. Good point, about having a separate event for jumping if that is what people want to see. It's like in freestyle skiing. In the areils event, you only really have to be a good jumper, whereas in moguls you have to be a good, fast skier, and a good jumper as well. The figure skater needs to train to have the entire package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 The figure skater needs to train to have the entire package. I totally agree and therewith I think it is totally fair that Evan won! Plushenkos' might be based on the fact that he is a sore looser, but I am sure, too, that he knows how the figure skating world works and therefore I take his remark seriously - the judging system should enforce the entire package - artistique as well as techniques as well as jumps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Inspire~ Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I totally agree and therewith I think it is totally fair that Evan won! It is fair that Evan won - perhaps fairness in figure skating is something Evgeni is not used to, with the new scoring system and all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 It is fair that Evan won - perhaps fairness in figure skating is something Evgeni is not used to, with the new scoring system and all? sorry ~inspire~, I forgot to welcome you here on the boards - it is great to have another Canadian here! I do not know him personally and therewith I do not know if he is fair or not - I just think that he knows the figure skating world quite good and therewith you should take his critic seriously as you should take other opinions seriously (it is quite difficult to explain what I think, since english isn't my first language) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 The ISU will have to guard vs. a lot of harrassment in 4 years' time. Which is/should be concerning, cuz you know those vexing Russians are going to want to take home as many winter Olympic medals on their home turf as possible. Sochi could very well be a competition nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) Which is/should be concerning, cuz you know those vexing Russians are going to want to take home as many winter Olympic medals on their home turf as possible. Wouldn't have wanted the USA the same, if there had been in the same situation? Edited February 20, 2010 by Citius Altius Fortius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nykfan845 Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 Wouldn't have wanted the USA the same, if there had been in the same situation? I think he's implying that the Russian will use some "unconventional means", if you catch my drift. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I think he's implying that the Russian will use some "unconventional means", if you catch my drift. LOL. ahh, o.k. - I got it now... (but I suppose Sochi is too late for Jewgeni) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) Wouldn't have wanted the USA the same, if there had been in the same situation? M, what FYI is saying (as I was) is that the reaction & comments from the Russians now...seems to foreshadow what will happen in 4 years' time in Sochi when if the hosts DON'T agree with the results, they will make it difficult for the federations and the IOC...just as those resentful South Koreans did in a boxing match in Seoul 1988. Except for the final men's basketball match in 1972 (which was obviously skewed towards the USSR), the U.S. pretty much abides by the outcomes, whether they are fair or not. Edited February 20, 2010 by baron-pierreIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 M, what FYI is saying (as I was) is that the reaction & comments from the Russians now...seems to foreshadow what will happen in 4 years' time in Sochi when the hosts DON'T agree with the results...they will make it very difficult for the federations and the IOC...just as those resentful South Koreans did in a boxing match in Seoul 1988. Except for the final men's basketball match in 1972 (which was obviously skewed towards the USSR), the U.S. pretty much abides by the outcomes, whether they are fair or not. yeah - I didn't get the thing between the lines first, but then I understood what he meant: of course Russia has huge influence, but I believe the ISU will trade off the different approaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Inspire~ Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 sorry ~inspire~, I forgot to welcome you here on the boards - it is great to have another Canadian here! I do not know him personally and therewith I do not know if he is fair or not - I just think that he knows the figure skating world quite good and therewith you should take his critic seriously as you should take other opinions seriously (it is quite difficult to explain what I think, since english isn't my first language) Thanks for the welcome, I think I'll like it here. I should clarify though, I didn't mean to imply that Evgeni is unfair, but to say that perhaps Evgeni's attitude is a reminant from the old 6.0 judging system, which had its flaws, and was somewhat biased and unfair at time. It was more a knock (perhaps a cheap shot) at the old judging system, rather then Evgeni himself! But you are right, Evgeni does know the figure skating world very well, and I definitely see his point with regards to the quad jump. Should be interesting going into 2014, that is for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the welcome, I think I'll like it here. I should clarify though, I didn't mean to imply that Evgeni is unfair, but to say that perhaps Evgeni's attitude is a reminant from the old 6.0 judging system, which had its flaws, and was somewhat biased and unfair at time. It was more a knock (perhaps a cheap shot) at the old judging system, rather then Evgeni himself! But you are right, Evgeni does know the figure skating world very well, and I definitely see his point with regards to the quad jump. Should be interesting going into 2014, that is for sure. yeah - It is fantastic board!!! I hope we will never return to the old 6.0 judging system - the only thing what I really don't like on the new one is that you just see the added up poinst - you can't see anymore how the different judges voted Edited February 20, 2010 by Citius Altius Fortius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Inspire~ Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I hope we will never return to the old 6.0 judging system - the only thing what I really don't like on the new one is that you just see the added up poinst - you can't see anymore how the different judges voted I agree - I wish we could see how different elements were upgraded or downgraded, and how different judges votes. I suppose that would take too long, but it would provide some justification for the results, rather then just watching someone skating, and then seeing a number on the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) I agree - I wish we could see how different elements were upgraded or downgraded, and how different judges votes. I suppose that would take too long, but it would provide some justification for the results, rather then just watching someone skating, and then seeing a number on the screen. yeah - you can't see how the judges from the different countries voted for their athletes resp. for the other athletes... Edited February 20, 2010 by Citius Altius Fortius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I agree - I wish we could see how different elements were upgraded or downgraded, and how different judges votes. I suppose that would take too long, but it would provide some justification for the results, rather then just watching someone skating, and then seeing a number on the screen. The scoresheets are available to the various athletes and their coaches...But it can't be something that would be shared with the outside world. It would just be too long...and I think there are enough chex-&-balances and safesguards to prevent the skewing that went before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Inspire~ Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 The scoresheets are available to the various athletes and their coaches...But it can't be something that would be shared with the outside world. It would just be too long...and I think there are enough chex-&-balances and safesguards to prevent the skewing that went before. Yes, and I've heard broadcasters refer to athletes getting upgraded or downgraded on particular elements, so these are available - I do realize though that is simply isn't practical to release all of it to the outside world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 (edited) M., are these lists oberserved by ISU? I mean do the federation control that the judges are fair? Edited February 20, 2010 by Citius Altius Fortius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox334 Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 M., are these lists oberserved by ISU? I mean do the federation control that the judges are fair? Apparently they are built-in computer programs that detect unusual judging patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Skater Rochette's mother dies of heart attack Therese Rochette had arrived in Vancouver just the day before Last Updated: Sunday, February 21, 2010 CBC Sports http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/figureskating/story/2010/02/21/spo-rochette.html Joannie Rochette practises in Vancouver for the Olympic Games last week. The Canadian star's mother died early on Sunday morning. (Amy Sancetta/Associated Press)Joannie Rochette's Winter Olympic hopes have taken a tragic turn. Therese Rochette, 55, mother of the Canadian figure skater, reportedly died overnight, two days before her daughter was to take the ice in the women's singles competition. Rochette’s mother had arrived in Vancouver on Saturday with her husband, Normand, according to information from a Skate Canada news conference at the Vancouver Games on Sunday. She apparently passed away suddenly early in the morning of a heart attack. Officials said the skater will stay in the competition Wednesday and Friday but will not speak to the media until it is over. The Canadian national champion is considered a strong medal threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoNutz Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Are the announcers in the Pacific Coliseum live, or some recording or a computer? Watching the figure skating and the ice dancing, and the way she says "Scores please?", and "currently in...First place" sounds very mechanical and exactly the same each time. Me and my roommate had about a 10 minute debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts