stevie Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Well after we have got the negatives out of our systems let’s be positive and look at the good things about the world cup coming down here. Hmmm well finally a decent stadia infrastructure. With Eden Park being boosted to 60,000 and Jade Stadium to 55,000 we won’t have to be embarrassed during the Tri-Nations to see matches being held in Ellis and Telstra then a mangled mess of a stadium like Carisbrook. I still can’t get over the idea of having two 50k+ in NZ. Jade Stadium will be one of the largest stadium Australasia. I guess Jade Stadium will go from looking like this: To thiss: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Well after we have got the negatives out of our systems let’s be positive and look at the good things about the world cup coming down here. Hmmm well finally a decent stadia infrastructure. With Eden Park being boosted to 60,000 and Jade Stadium to 55,000 we won’t have to be embarrassed during the Tri-Nations to see matches being held in Ellis and Telstra then a mangled mess of a stadium like Carisbrook. I still can’t get over the idea of having two 50k+ in NZ. Jade Stadium will be one of the largest stadium Australasia. But I like the shopping better in Tokyo! But honestly, on a purely selfish level, of course It'll make it easier for me to duck over and catch a game (and I'm not above taking advantage of contacts on the Rugby Old Boys network to get a freebie to a game). And, of course, upgrading the stadiums will make the next NZ Commonwealth Games (or my dream, a NZ WOG) all the more closer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 But I like the shopping better in Tokyo! There is no where else in the world that can compete with Tokyo Shopping. Not even Sydney *gasp* :grinning: Now that we will have a nice new shiny (oooh shiny) stadium in Christchurch, we have to get the winter games. Now we just need to teach anyone above the equator that Yes! it does snow down here during thier sumer *shock horror* and its not really a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexjc Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Well after we have got the negatives out of our systems let’s be positive and look at the good things about the world cup coming down here. Hmmm well finally a decent stadia infrastructure. With Eden Park being boosted to 60,000 and Jade Stadium to 55,000 we won’t have to be embarrassed during the Tri-Nations to see matches being held in Ellis and Telstra then a mangled mess of a stadium like Carisbrook. I still can’t get over the idea of having two 50k+ in NZ. Jade Stadium will be one of the largest stadium Australasia. Gosh Steve, I've got a picture of Lancaster Park during the Lion's 1950something tour, 57k packed in standing room only. You can see fish & chip and icecream carts dotted around the ground, awesome catering. There were probibly only a handfull of policemen around the ground and even they will be watching the game. Gosh the care free days of no OSH department! I'd rather be seated comfortably in a 55k seater stadium. Bring on the builders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 By the way guys, I just want to add that I'm glad that you'te hosting alone in your own right. That's gotta be sweeter than acting as sub-hosts to us (see there WAS a bright spot to come out of being dumped from sub-hosting 2003 _ you wouldn't have got this one if the original 2003 plan had happened!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 By the way guys, I just want to add that I'm glad that you'te hosting alone in your own right. That's gotta be sweeter than acting as sub-hosts to us (see there WAS a bright spot to come out of being dumped from sub-hosting 2003 _ you wouldn't have got this one if the original 2003 plan had happened!) NZ’s dumping of sub-hosting 2003 was the catalyst for this bid. Tt's were going alone but I hope Fiji gets some matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexjc Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Another positive about RWC11 is the local residents around Eden Park are all for the rebuilding of the southern stand and Panasonic stand. This will remove alot of sound and light pollution from the area, a far better option than adding another terrace on the western stand. Ground two will be used as basic car parking and the ARC is looking to make access to Kingsland station easier for patrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwebb Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 handing out the crown jewel of rugby to the minnows isn’t the way to do it. It would be like placing a bowling ball on top of a house of cards. We need to go into these countries and grow the game at grass roots level. The idea of rugby become a global game isn’t just about the world cup, it’s about growing that gross roots passion for rugby like we have in NZ world wide” That just sounds incredibly patronising to me. Japan has twice as many rugby clubs as New Zealand and South Africa collectively. There is clearly enthusiasm for the game there and hosting the World Cup would have given the sport an even greater shot in the arm that would hopefully have inspired more Japanese to take up the game and increase the standard of the national team. We all know the history and tradition of New Zealand. What the game needed more than anything else in my view was to be visionary and spread its message to the widest possible audience. The opportunity has been spurned and the game as a whole will regret it. And another thing. To hear Jock Hobbs talking about inspiring a new generation of New Zealand youngsters was laughable. As if the kids wouldn't want to play for the All Blacks if they didn't get 2011. Barmy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexjc Posted November 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 ...And another thing. To hear Jock Hobbs talking about inspiring a new generation of New Zealand youngsters was laughable. As if the kids wouldn't want to play for the All Blacks if they didn't get 2011. Barmy! :cool: Surprise! Rugby IS being eroded away, slowly but surely by a poliferation of other sports that New Zealand does well in. Thanks to a pro-sports supporting Government that is encouraging kids to try anything. In NZ there are more kids playing soccer between the ages of 5-14 that Union players, due to the fact that parents don't like the idea of their kids getting hurt. It's only in the High Schools where the "1st XV are gods" attitude still remain, which is where the NZRU concentrates all it's recruting resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 That just sounds incredibly patronising to me. Japan has twice as many rugby clubs as New Zealand and South Africa collectively. There is clearly enthusiasm for the game there and hosting the World Cup would have given the sport an even greater shot in the arm that would hopefully have inspired more Japanese to take up the game and increase the standard of the national team.We all know the history and tradition of New Zealand. What the game needed more than anything else in my view was to be visionary and spread its message to the widest possible audience. The opportunity has been spurned and the game as a whole will regret it. And another thing. To hear Jock Hobbs talking about inspiring a new generation of New Zealand youngsters was laughable. As if the kids wouldn't want to play for the All Blacks if they didn't get 2011. Barmy! I’m not trying to patronize Japan at all. Yes they have a large number of clubs and about the same number of players than New Zealand. But that’s reflect the following and support for the sport in Japan? No, it doesn’t. The 2011 World Cup in Japan could have gone totally unnoticed in Japan. Do you think most Japanese are going to care about the Rugby World Cup? I really hope Japan gets the World Cup someday because I’m sure Japanese rugby fans will be over the moon. But I’d prefer to see other new frontier countries like Argentina or Italy host before Japan. Japan should be congratulated for being the first country outside of the traditional countries to bid. But New Zealand won, New Zealand won because they put forward an excellent bid and they presented it in a smart way. They spoke to the hearts of the IRB members. The Japanese walked in for the first time ever and believed they had it in the bag. Sometimes you have to loss the first time to get it next time and that is something New Zealand knows about extremely well. And of course the 2011 World Cup is going to inspire young kiwis. Just like the 2012 Olympic Games will inspire young britons. I could not think of a greater honour than to play for the All Blacks, At the World Cup, In New Zealand. This World Cup is going to lift up the nation, it gives us something to look forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 I’m not trying to patronize Japan at all. Yes they have a large number of clubs and about the same number of players than New Zealand. But that’s reflect the following and support for the sport in Japan? No, it doesn’t. The 2011 World Cup in Japan could have gone totally unnoticed in Japan. Do you think most Japanese are going to care about the Rugby World Cup? I really hope Japan gets the World Cup someday because I’m sure Japanese rugby fans will be over the moon. But I’d prefer to see other new frontier countries like Argentina or Italy host before Japan. Japan should be congratulated for being the first country outside of the traditional countries to bid. I was going to lay off this topic today, but ... It's a World Cup! That's the incentive that would have got the Japanese crowds to matches (not to mention the leagues of Aussie, Brit, Kiwi, Frog and Yaarpie Rugby fans who would have travelled to Japan to help make up the numbers in the stadium). People will go to see the best of the best, and a World Cup, with all the associated hype, advertising, press coverage etc would have drawn people in to see what all the hype is about. Something like a World Cup does not go unnoticed, whatever country it is in. In fact, I'd guess a WC would possibly even draw more crowds in Japan than Argentina or Italy, which despite the fact they have a Rugby history, are still far and away more soccer-insane nations than Rugby countries. In the absence of a World Cup, what else is there that will drive crowd numbers up in Japan? (Actually, a good start just might be to admit Japan, and maybe a composite Islands team, to an expanded Aust-NZ-SA Tri-nations tournament) Anyway, look at Australia. Besides NSW and Qld, there isn't really much of a Rugby culture in any of the other Aussie Rules states (look at Aaronaugi here. Like most non NSW and Qld people, he's pretty vague on the differences between Rugby Union and League). In normal circumstances, a Rugby match outside of a hyped Bledisloe Cup would be lucky to draw more than a few dozen expats in Melbourne. But in 2003, Melbourne managed to draw huge crowds to its matches _ they're always ready to watch elite sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Look, I'm just pointing out the weakness in the Japanese bid and you have to admit it does go against Japan. But the Japanese bid also had a shitload of good things about it. But NZ won, can’t we just be happy with that? Japan will get it next time. It’s just 4 years to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Look, I'm just pointing out the weakness in the Japanese bid and you have to admit it does go against Japan. But Japan did have also have a shitload of good things about it. But NZ one, can’t we just be happy with that? Japan will get it next time. It’s just 4 years to wait. Exactly _ I'm with you all the way on that. It's done, it's gone and 2011 is going to be a great tournament! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 (Actually, a good start just might be to admit Japan, and maybe a composite Islands team, to an expanded Aust-NZ-SA Tri-nations tournament) They have, A new competition between Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Japan, Australia A and New Zealand A has just been set up. Its looking like South Africa will ditch NZ and Australia once their SANZA contract runs out in 2010. I see that as a perfect chance to expand the Tri-Nations. I would love to see a New Zealand, Australia, Argentina, Pacific Islands and Japan competition. Hopefully Japanese rugby will have improved by then and this new competition will hopefully improve the Japanese team’s performance. This bid has given Japanese rugby a lot of attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwebb Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 The 2011 World Cup in Japan could have gone totally unnoticed in Japan. Are you having a laugh? That is absolutely ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwebb Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 ...And another thing. To hear Jock Hobbs talking about inspiring a new generation of New Zealand youngsters was laughable. As if the kids wouldn't want to play for the All Blacks if they didn't get 2011. Barmy! :cool: Surprise! Rugby IS being eroded away, slowly but surely by a poliferation of other sports that New Zealand does well in. Thanks to a pro-sports supporting Government that is encouraging kids to try anything. In NZ there are more kids playing soccer between the ages of 5-14 that Union players, due to the fact that parents don't like the idea of their kids getting hurt. It's only in the High Schools where the "1st XV are gods" attitude still remain, which is where the NZRU concentrates all it's recruting resources. I cannot seriously believe that kids don't dream of playing for the All Blacks any more and that is what I am talking about. That is why I found Jock Hobbs so laughable. If parents don't want to see their little darlings get hurt, why do they ley them play sport at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 The 2011 World Cup in Japan could have gone totally unnoticed in Japan. Are you having a laugh? That is absolutely ridiculous. I know your bitter that Japan lost but just lay off it would ya? 2011 will polarize New Zealand; it is going to stop the nation. It will probably be one of the greatest and most defining moments in our history. The World Cup wouldn’t grip Japan like it would NZ. Arwebb, I know you were set on seeing the world cup go to Japan, But it didn’t. In my (bias of course) opinion, NZ put forward the best bid and we really deserved the world cup. You obviously thought other wise, which is fine, I respect that. Japan is bound to get the world cup sooner or latter so lets just look forward to 2007 and 2011, their both going to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwebb Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Lay off it? No chance. It is absolutely preposterous to suggest that the World Cup would go "unnoticed" in Japan. Let's face it, the football World Cup didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Lay off it? No chance. It is absolutely preposterous to suggest that the World Cup would go "unnoticed" in Japan. Let's face it, the football World Cup didn't. There is no way you can compare the following soccer has in Japan to that of rugby. It was an obvious exaggeration and was not meant to be taking seriously. All I’m pointing out is that the following of rugby in Japan is equal to the following of soccer in NZ, the main stream population don’t pay much attention to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwebb Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Again, ridiculous. The Japanese people are hardly going to ignore a World Cup happening on their own doorstep, are they? If you are concerned about developing the appeal of rugby in Japan and elsewhere, the best way of developing it is to give them the opportunity of hosting the sport's greatest event, providing they have the ability to do so and there is no doubt that Japan have proved their ability in that field. I am not criticising New Zealand here. My dispute is with the IRB voters who have let a golden opportunity to develop the global appeal of the game slip through their fingers. They can forget rugby becoming an Olympic sport any time soon now for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattygs Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 I don't know why I am bothering, but it's true, you can't compare football and rugby in Japan. If rugby is so popular, why on earth do they get bugger all people to their premier competitions? Much less, the poor interest for their national team. At the end of the day, the notion that by simply handing the hosting rights of a world cup tournament, to an emerging nation, somehow gives the sport validation in the eyes of the IOC is just silly. A tournament who can be run extremely efficiently by the Japanese, yes, of course they can. They have the stadiums, the infrastructure etc etc. But so what? How does that make the sport more global? By simply taking an AFL match to Dubai, does that mean Aussie Rules all of a sudden has gone international? Or what about taking the V8 Supercar event to Shanghai, all of a sudden, are we supposed to believe that China is all go with Australasia's major local motor sport product? Of course not. What Japan needs to look at, is trying to increase its local competitions, perhaps trying to get into the Super 14. The only way to prove to the IOC that rugby is increasingly global, is by presenting to them an ever improving Japanese (or wherever) national team record - not by pointing to a nice looking stadium and say that it will host a World Cup. How bout Japan going for some of the other World Cup's too, like the under 19s, under 21s, womens etc etc. That would be a good stepping stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwebb Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Why should Japan do what the "old unions" tell them they should do? If the IRB were serious about globalising rugby, they bottled it last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattygs Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 I don't think it's a case of Japan having to do what the *old unions* tell them to do. The fact of the matter is, that like in every single sport around the world and their governing body - there are nations or groupings of nations who have an *edge* in the running of the sport. This is for various reasons, but most of the time, is because of their particular history or performance in that sport. I mean, look at FIFA and the dominance that UEFA has. We have a situation where despite the fact that say Australia has never hosted a world cup - there is still a definite feeling that 2018 is *Europe's turn* to host a World Cup again after going to South Africa and then Brazil in the two previous world cups. We have the IOC, which people say is Eurocentric, sometimes heavily influenced by the USA - but also thinking of the Southern Hemisphere as a poor cousin. This goes on and on. It just so happens that rugby is a sport, who has a history, which means that the *old unions* are the ones which are dominant - that is just how it is has worked out in rugby - due to the fact that those are the nations which took to the game. They will always have a heavy influence around the board table, no different to any other sports organisation. And like these other sports organisations, when bidding for events, they will have far more sway than a minnow nation. Just seems to me that a good idea is to develop the Japanese game, as a priority, instead of just chucking a World Cup at them to host. Not saying that it shouldnt be on the cards at some stage, but surely things like the Olympic Solidarity project show that there are other ways to develop the Game in that country aswell. Something hasnt clicked, they need to look at why that is. They aren't exactly new on the scene, but they really havent developed - I dont know why that is. But I think it's something that the JRU need to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arwebb Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Giving Japan the opportunity to stage the Rugby World Cup, something everyone knows they could do extremely well, would be the best way to develop the game over there. At the moment, all the IRB's talk about globalising the game is just that. It is partly a question of control but it is also a question of following through on words with meaningful actions, and on that front, the IRB appear to have been taking lessons from FIFA President Sepp Blatter in utter failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suit U Sir !!! Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 How bout Japan going for some of the other World Cup's too, like the under 19s, under 21s, womens etc etc.That would be a good stepping stone. But wouldn't the awarding of the 2011 Rugby world cup have been a "stepping stone" towards making more and more people in Japan (and the rest of the far east region) more interested in Rugby as a sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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