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Boris's Tower On The Olympic Park


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...It isn't even completed yet... :mellow:

It doesn't matter. Right now, some people think the tower looks ugly. Right now, some people like the tower. C'est la vie. We know what the tower will look like so whilst it might be polite to say "I'll reserve judgement until it's built", ultimately, people are allowed to dislike it. There's nothing wrong with disliking it or liking it for that matter. It's just opinions.

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You seem confused, and seem to have got yourself into a muddle. I've already said in another post I take your dislike of this as being sincere and completely valid, even though I don't share it. A sha

The problem is, I just can't take you seriously Rob. You have hardly shown yourself to be impartial, when it comes to anything London related. Of course, you are from London, naturally you defend your

/\/\/\/\/\ lol 1. People are allowed to dislike this tower. You're not the thought-police.You may think you are but you're not. You're just an angry wee man with internet rage over someone else's co

Adrianme, Oaky is right mate.

There's nothing wrong with people saying they think it's hideous - it's an opinion on aesthetic, not a judgement on function, or against your community or against London. There's no need to call people philistines for holding that opinion or to get quite so angry.

On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with telling people it looks better in real life and explaining why this is the case. I saw it a few weeks ago and even back then I could see that its sense of scale and sense of 3-dimensions doesn't come acorss very well in photos. That's not to say I like it; I'm still very ambivilent about it. I want to see it completed in real-life and maybe get a chance to go up the thing before I make up my mind.

Lots of art is like that. You see photos of Rothco paintings and you think they're a load of rubbish. See them in the Tate Modern and the paint is thick and lush on the canvas, parts of the works change colour as you look at them and walk around them. They're quite intruiging. Context and space also matters. Organ music sounds much better in the context of a large cathedral than through a pair of stereo speakers when it sounds like death warmed up. I suspect being able to walk around this tower and see the angles changes adds a different dimension to it also.

So no, there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying people are only getting half the experience from looking at the photos, and nor is there anything wrong with treating those opinions with less-weight than the opinions of those who've actually seen it (as you would with someone judging a Rothco from a photograph). If this really is the case - if the Orbit really does depend a huge amount on seeing it in real-life before it comes alive - you do wonder whether it was the right piece of art for a park which will be seen by hundreds of millions on flat TV screens. Only time will decide, and let's not forget the thing's not completed yet.

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Absolutley nothing is wrong with opinion, but why go out of your own way and express such a strong opinion and argue over a structure which you have only seen in pictures or incomplete with your own eyes..? No need...

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/\ Thanks, Rob. As usual, a balanced, well-reasoned post.

Here's the rub though: someone, OK me, since I can only speak for myself...am already repelled by it in photos...and I'm expected to withhold opinion until I see it on site? ARE U NUTZ? :blink: WHy should I NOT keep my opinion of a publicly-on-view sculpture to myself? Not unless you (adrienne or kapoor or whomever) are going to pay my fare and expenses so I can get there and view it in situ, then yes, I could deliver my verdict (which would probably not change) in person.

I shall clear my calendar for the week before the Games and await the 1st-class R/T ticket I am used to. :lol:

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/\ Thanks, Rob. As usual, a balanced, well-reasoned post.

Here's the rub though: someone, OK me, since I can only speak for myself...am already repelled by it in photos...and I'm expected to withhold opinion until I see it on site? ARE U NUTZ? :blink: WHy should I NOT keep my opinion of a publicly-on-view sculpture to myself? Not unless you (adrienne or kapoor or whomever) are going to pay my fare and expenses so I can get there and view it in situ, then yes, I could deliver my verdict (which would probably not change) in person.

I shall clear my calendar for the week before the Games and await the 1st-class R/T ticket I am used to. :lol:

Baron - we have argued about this in the past - you have your view which is fine! However it's the same banal rubbish all the time - you have made sweeping statements about it's impact on the park and environs without appreciating the lay of the land!

Oaky - back @ you! - don't patronise me - dear - hun or whatever you want to call me.

Rob - I see what you are saying - however I don't agree! Oaky was being abusive - to use nationalism as an argument is spurious in the extreme!

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Baron - we have argued about this in the past - you have your view which is fine! However it's the same banal rubbish all the time - you have made sweeping statements about it's impact on the park and environs without appreciating the lay of the land!

Oaky - back @ you! - don't patronise me - dear - hun or whatever you want to call me.

Rob - I see what you are saying - however I don't agree! Oaky was being abusive - to use nationalism as an argument is spurious in the extreme!

No-one was being abusive. How can people, giving their VALID opinions on a tower's aesthetic, possibly correlate with being abusive to you?

That's my point -- you are taking people's subjective views of the tower to heart. Thus, you DO HAVE an emotional investment in this tower and how it is perceived.

But some things you are SIMPLY WRONG on.Most people WILL NOT see this structure in person. Thus, forming opinions from pictures is perfectly valid. And since all art is subject to opinion with regards its aesthetic value, you are wrong to demand people are somehow 'philistines' for not loving this structure like you do.

Baron expressed a perfectly fine opinion. You became angered by it, and it was you who made the abusive post. I then commented on your post since I felt it was out of order. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's great that you like the structure. But many others do not. Such is life.

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No-one was being abusive. How can people, giving their VALID opinions on a tower's aesthetic, possibly correlate with being abusive to you?

That's my point -- you are taking people's subjective views of the tower to heart. Thus, you DO HAVE an emotional investment in this tower and how it is perceived.

But some things you are SIMPLY WRONG on.Most people WILL NOT see this structure in person. Thus, forming opinions from pictures is perfectly valid. And since all art is subject to opinion with regards its aesthetic value, you are wrong to demand people are somehow 'philistines' for not loving this structure like you do.

Baron expressed a perfectly fine opinion. You became angered by it, and it was you who made the abusive post. I then commented on your post since I felt it was out of order. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's great that you like the structure. But many others do not. Such is life.

No - you HAVE been abusive - hun! Now hurry along!

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No - you HAVE been abusive - hun! Now hurry along!

Some FACTS for your perusal:

1. Baron said he found the tower ugly (like many do).

2. You then made an aggressive post to him, saying it was 'hideous' that he thinks the tower was ugly since he hasn't seen it in person.Your exact words were:

Blah blah blah boring - is that all you can say??!!! You haven't seen it in situ & IMO haven't a clue - in my view that's HIDEOUS!

3. I then responded to this comment as it was out of order in my opinion.

4. I said most people WILL NOT see the tower in person thus their opinions will be formed from pictures. And that's perfectly valid. I also said your own patriotic/misplaced nationalism/egoism meant you were WRONGLY taking people's opinions as an attack on you. Of course, someone commenting on THE AESTHETIC VALUE OF THE TOWER has nothing to do with you so why you should get annoyed clearly illustrates your sense of EMOTIONAL involvment with the tower.

5. You then proved my point by saying that:

I live down the road from the park - this is one of the most deprived areas in the UK - so when I see something as brave as this in my community I am proud and happy to see it making a huge difference! I don't give a c#nt about what people like you think - just happy that the games have given hope and investment to MY community- is that OK with you? Also as a Londoner and a tax payer - Londoners paying the most towards these games!

Clearly, as YOUR OWN WORDS ILLUSTRATE, your venom for people who dislike the tower is clearly based on your sense of identity to the tower, your area etc. Your own words say this in the quote YOUR POSTED.Thus, you are initiating bias when denouncing people's views on the tower.

6.I said your view that the tower was "brave" was a tad melodramatic.It was your opinion nonetheless and you're free to own it.

7.And when all has been said and done, it was YOU who initiated the aggressive post towards Baron. That's a fact. And it was you who then called me a "pr*ck" for pointing out how your view that only people who have seen the tower in situ can thus comment. That's an illogical view.

8. And now, knowing that it is you in the WRONG, you are trying to deflect from your own words and get hung up over my use of the word "hun". But do note, that I said my RESPECTFUL post AFTER your made your AGGRESSIVE post.

9. And that's that!

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Plenty of people say the Atlanta cauldron and tower was ugly, especially on here and most have not seen the thing in person. In pictures or in person peoples opinions and tastes will differ.

I personally do not like it due to the red roller coaster type steel, i would have preferred a metalic curvy structure, but in games time it may grow on me

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Some FACTS for your perusal:

1. Baron said he found the tower ugly (like many do).

2. You then made an aggressive post to him, saying it was 'hideous' that he thinks the tower was ugly since he hasn't seen it in person.Your exact words were:

3. I then responded to this comment as it was out of order in my opinion.

4. I said most people WILL NOT see the tower in person thus their opinions will be formed from pictures. And that's perfectly valid. I also said your own patriotic/misplaced nationalism/egoism meant you were WRONGLY taking people's opinions as an attack on you. Of course, someone commenting on THE AESTHETIC VALUE OF THE TOWER has nothing to do with you so why you should get annoyed clearly illustrates your sense of EMOTIONAL involvment with the tower.

5. You then proved my point by saying that:

Clearly, as YOUR OWN WORDS ILLUSTRATE, your venom for people who dislike the tower is clearly based on your sense of identity to the tower, your area etc. Your own words say this in the quote YOUR POSTED.Thus, you are initiating bias when denouncing people's views on the tower.

6.I said your view that the tower was "brave" was a tad melodramatic.It was your opinion nonetheless and you're free to own it.

7.And when all has been said and done, it was YOU who initiated the aggressive post towards Baron. That's a fact. And it was you who then called me a "pr*ck" for pointing out how your view that only people who have seen the tower in situ can thus comment. That's an illogical view.

8. And now, knowing that it is you in the WRONG, you are trying to deflect from your own words and get hung up over my use of the word "hun". But do note, that I said my RESPECTFUL post AFTER your made your AGGRESSIVE post.

9. And that's that!

as i said - run along now!

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as i said - run along now!

Run along? Why? Because you, being exposed acting badly want me to? Is it because several people have called you out on your silliness?

adrianme17, just like 1+1=2, it's also an objective fact your post towards Baron was based on an illogical premise : namely that people are "hideous" for saying they think the tower is ugly as people need to "see it in situ" in order to commment. And even then, if they don't like it, they're philistines because, as I quoted you, this is a London tower in YOUR community thus people must like it. Totally weird logic from you.Truly strange and again, you've entwined your own sense of personal happiness with this tower and are getting angry and taking it personal when people comment on it in less than favourable terms.

You do not own this tower. You do not own people's opinions. And people commenting on this tower HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. Get over yourself. People have issued with the Aquatics centre too -- is that a personal attack on you and your community aswell? Of course not!

But your childish comments "run along now etc" are evidence of your inability to admit you are wrong thus you resort to such remarks. I'm not going anywhere mate. Deal with that.

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I took these today the Orbit is really taking shape now with some of the loops completed

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6222/6261794414_6cbff251b0_b.jpg

Also I saw this Rat at the visitor centre hopefully we wont need to tuck our trousers into our socks

It looks very friendly.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6213/6261269733_ea10b96a1c_b.jpg

I also learned today that they are constructing a new bridge across the canal from the Olympic park

near the art gallery, I think this will be the rout to the stunningly beautiful Victoria park,

They have only laid the foundations but at least we know canal bridge building outside the Olympic Park is under way.

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Well, after Beijing's extraordinary and sexy designs the venues for London 2012 do not impress at all and sorry but some even look kinda old-fashioned and ugly.

Do not impress at all? I'm sorry you feel that way but I take it you haven't seen much of them. London may not match the hugeness and expense of two or three of Beijing's set pieces, nor the consistent architectural style Athens managed across its quite beautiful venues, but the range and quality of London's venues across the board, and much of the architecture is fantastic, rivals any past host, and surpasses most.

The velodrome is an extroadinary structure with the fastest track in the world, the stadium internally is as good as any Olympic Stadium with brilliant sightlines, the aquatic centre is an incredible Hadid structure (though there has been a lot of debate about the wings) which inspired Ian Thorpe's comeback, then we have Wembley Stadium, Lords, the O2, Wimbledon, Eton Lake, the new Weymouth Sailing Centre, the new Lee Valley White Water course, Old Trafford, St James' Park, the Millennium Stadium.

Do some Googling. I can't believe the venues don't impress at all.

velodrome.jpg

stadium-close.jpg

lac09.jpg

white-water-centre-facility-building-71468.jpg

O2arena.jpg

2746024773_fcc5724624.jpg

wimbledonb_aerial1_aeltc.jpg

69834745_be39a2c3e8.jpg

Wembley-Stadium-at-night.jpg

1395976550_9607258e14_b.jpg

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