Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

OlympicUSA

Rio 2016 Olympics, A Mistake By Ioc?

Recommended Posts

Congrats Rio on the victory. They ran a near-flawless campaign. However, do you think the IOC made a wrong decision by choosing Rio as host?

Twelve dead and helicopter downed as Rio de Janeiro drug gangs go to warHost city of the 2014 World Cup and 2016 Olympics shaken by violence as warlords battle for control of the cocaine trade

Tom Phillips in Rio de Janeiro

Two weeks after Rio de Janeiro celebrated winning the 2016 Olympic Games, the Brazilian city was tonight bracing itself for a further night of violence after an intense gun battle erupted in one of the city's favelas and a police helicopter was shot down, killing two officers.

The violence, intense even by Rio's standards, began in the Morro dos Macacos, a hillside area in northern Rio. The shanty town, controlled by the Amigos dos Amigos (Friends of Friends) drug faction, one of three heavily-armed cocaine gangs that control many of Rio's 1,000-odd slums, was reportedly invaded in the early hours of Saturday morning by members of a rival gang, the Red Command. Police say traffickers from the Red Command were attempting to seize control of the local cocaine trade.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/1...ence-helicopter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure if the government is planning to spend 14billion (or probably much more) they will get some of the violence under control, at least for show around the time of the games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IOC knows about Rio's fight against crime... This is one more chapter of it...

And about the 12 dead... 10 was from drug-dealers gang.

Sadly two policemen was killed when helicopter tried a emergency landing in a soccer field near the slum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once it's showtime in Rio, I'm sure the government will do everything & anything to make sure everything is under control. Security is always tight for the Olympics. Plus, this violence is mainly in the slums, far away from Barra & the other clusters where venues will be. Rio is no more, nor no less, of a threat like lets say Sochi, located in one of the most volatile regions on earth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop with that... Security is not a problem for IOC members as they know that at Games Time nothing could happen in Rio !

Anyone that came to Winter or Summer Games after 9/11 could guarantee you that security at Games Time is almost like the one for an Obama's visit !!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stop with that... Security is not a problem for IOC members as they know that at Games Time nothing could happen in Rio !

We don't even know that about London, let alone Rio. It's a perfectly acceptable subject to talk about.

But I do question why we needed another thread on this news. It's already been posted in the general security thread and a thread was started on it yesterday as well. Please look before you start new threads to see if one already exists because otherwise the discussion gets split and confused :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they wish to stage the Games next week it is possible to ensure security. It's only a matter of rolling out a plan with additional manpower. The National Security Force and the Army troops can be deployed to increase the manpower and deploy them in all the hot spots. The 2007 PanAm Games and the Eco 92 conference with a huge number of chiefs of states happened with no incident. This would keep those gangs dormant for the 2 weeks of the SOG. That's why the invasion attempt took place during the weekend which is usually the case, since there are less policemen working.

The real question is that Rio is taking the SOG opportunity to implement a plan to improve security for all of its citizens, not only to tourists, athletes and officials participating in an event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stop with that... Security is not a problem for IOC members as they know that at Games Time nothing could happen in Rio !

Anyone that came to Winter or Summer Games after 9/11 could guarantee you that security at Games Time is almost like the one for an Obama's visit !!!!

i think its very premature to assume that nothing could happen to Rio by games time. i'm sure the same thing was said about Munich and Atlanta and we know what happend there. the world is very different now and organization will use the olympics as an avenue to make a statement since they know that people are paying attention to it. such as what happend in rio recently is something that the IOC would have to deal with and a question that both the OCOG and the IOC will not be able to evade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rio 2016 Olympics, A Mistake By Ioc?

Maybe... but if in the next years its becomes a proved mistake Madrid will be just there to host it without major problems since they have like 80% of buildings ready :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i think its very premature to assume that nothing could happen to Rio by games time. i'm sure the same thing was said about Munich and Atlanta and we know what happend there. the world is very different now and organization will use the olympics as an avenue to make a statement since they know that people are paying attention to it. such as what happend in rio recently is something that the IOC would have to deal with and a question that both the OCOG and the IOC will not be able to evade.

I don't know if you already attend an Olympic Games... but I attended 3 before 2001 and 3 after 2001... and security nowdays as nothing to deal with what is was for exemple in 1996 (I was there) and for sure in 1976...

So you can't compare with those old days... nowdays with all private security around and in the venue, all the public security around the venue and allover the city... nothing could happen.

So yes some organization would probably think to use those events to promote their ideas... but they will not succeed !

And what happened yesterday, has nothing to deal with the fact that Rio will host the games... it was just a fight between 2 gangs that media highlighted because of the helicopter crash.

You could be sure that without this crash you would have not heard about it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And what happened yesterday, has nothing to deal with the fact that Rio will host the games... it was just a fight between 2 gangs that media highlighted because of the helicopter crash.

You could be sure that without this crash you would have not heard about it...

It was not the first drug gangs fights, will be not the last... And we hope Rio can improve the day-by-day security plan with olympic boost.

By the way, there are plans to put 70,000+ policemen in Rio... I'm really not worried about Olympic Games...

Plus, this violence is mainly in the slums, far away from Barra & the other clusters where venues will be. Rio is no more, nor no less, of a threat like lets say Sochi, located in one of the most volatile regions on earth.

Well, Deodoro cluster is not exactly far from slums as Barra (no favelas near) or Copacabana (50% community-police-program in major favelas)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So when Terrorists bombed the London Transportation system killing over 50 people the day after London 2012 was awarded the games did anyone come on the Boards and ask whether London as a choice was a mistake ? Should The IOC have regretted 5 times as much the decision for London because of the size of the death toll one day after the decision?

Both July 7th 2005 in London and the Violence Breaking out in Rio the other day are tragic events. The Only way that you can tell a choice by the IOC was a Mistake is after the Games are held and if you looked at 100 different excuses why a games choice was the wrong one 7 years ahead of the event then you would not host the games anywhere. If you don't host the event then you never know .

The only games choice the IOc should ever regret is the ones that put bad press of Cost overruns into the public view for long periods of time damaging the attractiveness of hosting the games . Even then you cannot really say it is a decision the IOc should regret because you don't know what will happen with the Economies of the world or the Host city in the run up.

The security problems for Rio 2016 are there but they start with more in 2009 then London 2012 did in 2005 in regards to Venues. Rio 2016's main Construction Area for New Venues is not a place that has toxic and radioactive wastes in the ground from what I know of. There should be no huge surprises with Rio Capital Projects which should be a relief for the IOC.

Jim jones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know if you already attend an Olympic Games... but I attended 3 before 2001 and 3 after 2001... and security nowdays as nothing to deal with what is was for exemple in 1996 (I was there) and for sure in 1976...

So you can't compare with those old days... nowdays with all private security around and in the venue, all the public security around the venue and allover the city... nothing could happen.

So yes some organization would probably think to use those events to promote their ideas... but they will not succeed !

And what happened yesterday, has nothing to deal with the fact that Rio will host the games... it was just a fight between 2 gangs that media highlighted because of the helicopter crash.

You could be sure that without this crash you would have not heard about it...

to make such statements as nothing will happen is very premature. again, we are living in a world of excessive fanaticism and several organizations will do everything especially when events like the olympics or some major summit is held in their city to make their voices heared or do something crazy. people said that happend that the attacks of munich will never happen. though not exactly munich magnitude but atlanta was bombed. the bottom line is atlanta was still bombed. i'm not saying such fighting will happen during the games but these are serious issues that rio has in its plate. again we don't know how the world will be like in 2016. given brazil is not canada. but to completely ignore is rather ignorant and very utopian thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So when Terrorists bombed the London Transportation system killing over 50 people the day after London 2012 was awarded the games did anyone come on the Boards and ask whether London as a choice was a mistake ? Should The IOC have regretted 5 times as much the decision for London because of the size of the death toll one day after the decision?

You may be surprised but I have to agree. And this is one of the things (along with the weather) that I'm most worried about for 2012 - even a billion pound security plan can't protect the whole of London, the whole of the Tube, every little side street etc. for the length of time the Games are on. If some whack-jobs want to blow up a bus in 2012 I can't see how it can be prevented.

Every host city has certain problems; it's weighing them up and asking "is it worth the risk?"

If there was a culture of complete risk aversion we'd never see the Games anywhere, whilst on the other hand nobody is going to advocate a Games in Baghdad. The pertinent question isn't whether these sort of problems exist or not, but where you draw the line between them being worth the risk and not being worth the risk.

That said, I think the difference is Rio's problem seems to be ongoing. The crime is always in the background, it doesn't seem far from the surface from what I can gather. Terrorism, whilst just (if not more) serious, is not quite the same in this regard. London's a pretty safe city 99% of the time but has a terrorism risk higher than many other Western cities. Rio, on the other hand, is not a very safe city generally.

And of course, the Games can bring the potential for terrorism wherever they go, even if the host city has never had a history of terrorism before. So that needs to be thought about too.

If the situation gets better in Rio and nothing happens during the Games the IOC will be proven right in their decsision. If the opposite happens they'll be proven wrong. No premature conclusions should be drawn from what happened yesterday - it's certainly damaging to Rio's international image, but it's not necessarily indicative of what we'll see in seven years time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So when Terrorists bombed the London Transportation system killing over 50 people the day after London 2012 was awarded the games did anyone come on the Boards and ask whether London as a choice was a mistake ? Should The IOC have regretted 5 times as much the decision for London because of the size of the death toll one day after the decision?

The prejudice against Brazil and poor countries above Equator will continue for centuries...

Riots almost stopped Paris for many time, and NEVER people were worried about Paris bids here...

It's funny... Nothing is trustable outside the Gucci-Armani axis of sport...

BTW, time to watch Brazilian Grand Prix of Formula One (considered by many some of most dramatic every year).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And it started full of emotion!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Riots almost stopped Paris for many time, and NEVER people were worried about Paris bids here...

I am disappointed to read this from a Brazilian & a Rio's supporter...

"Riots" !!!! Stop believe the way media told you the story.... 4 years ago I had fun to watch on TV how international media and especially CNN was telling the problems that we had in some (so few... i live in the south and my parents in the north... and we did not met around any young people burning some cars!) suburbs of Paris (nothing happened also in Paris itself).

As the Rio's gangs problems yesterday highlighted by the media, cars are burning all around the world every nights without being told on TV.... We have to stand back with the way media related news !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am disappointed to read this from a Brazilian & a Rio's supporter...

"Riots" !!!! Stop believe the way media told you the story.... 4 years ago I had fun to watch on TV how international media and especially CNN was telling the problems that we had in some (so few... i live in the south and my parents in the north... and we did not met around any young people burning some cars!) suburbs of Paris (nothing happened also in Paris itself).

As the Rio's gangs problems yesterday highlighted by the media, cars are burning all around the world every nights without being told on TV.... We have to stand back with the way media related news !

Fully agreed!

Hey, I know only parts of Paris had riots... But in those suburbs thing get really bad - UNFORTUNATELLY

As only parts of Rio had problems with the drug-dealers yesterday. - UNFORTUNATELLY TOO

All cities have problems, some bigger, some smaller...

I want to show that people here that only complain about problems in Brazil and now they come with "Shoud IOC change it decision" - this is ridiculous.

BTW, Paris is a great city, and I support Paris for 2024...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey, I know only parts of Paris had riots... But in those suburbs thing get really bad - UNFORTUNATELLY

NO ! That was not 'riots' ! If you named like this those events, it will be the same to say that what happened in Rio was "civil war" !

My point was to show that the real size of those kind of events, is not the one that media relates :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RoH, thanks for the reminder. Will keep an eye on this going forward.

The issue I have is not whether the IOC should bring the Games to a new frontier (South America in this case). It's a matter of timing, and I genuinely believe 2016 is not ideal for Rio to stage the Games. Even if I were a Brazilian, I would prefer 2020 or 2028. The war against drug cartels, violent crime, poverty, social injustice , as well as preparations for 2014 WC and the 2016 Olympics in a short span of time is a tall order for Brazilians, not to mention a fast-growing city with lots of social issues like Rio. I am still skeptical about its capability to deliver an outstanding Olympics. Well, that remains to be seen. This is an ultimate test for Rio & Brazil and I hope they will prove me wrong 8 years from now.

We don't even know that about London, let alone Rio. It's a perfectly acceptable subject to talk about.

But I do question why we needed another thread on this news. It's already been posted in the general security thread and a thread was started on it yesterday as well. Please look before you start new threads to see if one already exists because otherwise the discussion gets split and confused :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NO ! That was not 'riots' ! If you named like this those events, it will be the same to say that what happened in Rio was "civil war" !

My point was to show that the real size of those kind of events, is not the one that media relates :(

Memorabilia, maybe we have misunderstood here...

I may said the wrong word to describe what happened in Paris...

Believe me, everytime we see protests on TV (anywhere), they say riots. I'm wrong. My English is still improving. Sorry.

You are absolutely right about the size of the events...

OlympicUSA, based on what you say this?

The war against drug cartels, violent crime, poverty, social injustice, as well as preparations for 2014 WC and the 2016 Olympics in a short span of time is a tall order for Brazilians, not to mention a fast-growing city with lots of social issues like Rio.

What poverty and social "injustive" play on Olympic preparations???

C'mon!!! We've discussed it a lot here and I got no answer for that until today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am still skeptical about its capability to deliver an outstanding Olympics. Well, that remains to be seen. This is an ultimate test for Rio & Brazil and I hope they will prove me wrong 8 years from now.

Based on what you say this???

Did you watched all events Brazil have already had???

Tell me one event under expectations Brazil held??? Only one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the sense that every city has its problems which need to be minimised, yes. And in the sense tha no city is risk-free, yes. But I wouldn't go too far down the road with this comparison.

London is, in general, a pretty safe city and certainly compared to Rio. The terrorism risk is always there but it doesn't get into the very fabric of the city or affect the city on a day-to-day basis. Nor does it make certain parts of the city no-go areas for tourists. And those who wreaked havock on London do not rule over segments of the city.

Rio's problems seem to be much more constant and much closer to the surface. Whilst the shells of destroyed buses may look similar, it's a very different problem to the one London (undoubtedly) faces and they require completely different solutions.

I'm not saying London's problems should be trivialised or ignored, but you simply saying "it is like the 7 July 2005 when London win the 2012 Summer Olympics" doesn't really get to the nub of the issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The terrorist troble is no-doubts very different from drug-dealers one...

We can not compare the risks of a terrorist target like England or US with drug crimes in Brazil or South Africa...

And I FULL agree with Mo Rush here...

When you choose a city in Brazil or South Africa or any other emerging country, you are taking some risks (seeing it in a European standard). But there is the other side... There are good things on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...