aluz Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 No, Aluz...The names will still the same for both countries... Indeed, some accents will not change for both... In case of Armênia in Brazil and Arménia in Portugal <--- These will not change. About Países Baixos and Holanda... I'd rather Países Baixos, since it's more correct... Neerlândia would be too weird, even for those from Portugal. That's why I really think this ortographic reform is useless... Indeed... Assembléia, Européia are still with accent in Portugal, I just watched it in RTP... There are many Portuguese people that already said they will not respect the changes... Dannyel, I didn't disagree with you, I just said that some words were changed. It's a fact whether you agree or not with the implementation of the new agreement. By the way, I didn't like a lot of things about it either like the elimination of the "ü". What I meant is that the writing will be based on the new orthographic agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roux Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 That is an interesting issue - maybe we should start a new thread in the "General Olympics section" - it is astonishing that the dependent territories of France have no own NOC, but the British, American, DutchFurthermore I think we have to differ between the overseas territories and the overseas departments of France - since e.g. Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guyana belong to France as overseas departments - e.g. French Polynesia or New Caledonia are overseas territories... I do actually have my theories on why that is, but I'll start a new thread as you suggested in order to discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I do actually have my theories on why that is, but I'll start a new thread as you suggested in order to discuss it. Roux, I have already made a copy of your post and my reply in the General Olympics section - I hope you are not bothered that I have already started there a new thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Macau I think Macau used to have one already but it became inactive (and/or they could not send any athletes who made the Olympic minimum, so it disbanded...and that was fine with mother China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Dannyel,I didn't disagree with you, I just said that some words were changed. It's a fact whether you agree or not with the implementation of the new agreement. By the way, I didn't like a lot of things about it either like the elimination of the "ü". What I meant is that the writing will be based on the new orthographic agreement. But, there is this case of Econômico and Económico... This will not change, according to the new rule... it will have a rule for Brazil and other rule for the other portuguese-speaking countries. So, we will have Armênia in Brazil and Arménia in Portugal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Mata Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I know it's off topic but the linguistics issues are my department so I can't resist. Nobody can force people to communicate in this or that way. Language is serious stuff and I mean serious in multiple levels: personal, regional, cultural, national and international. It's our main 'tool' of communication and if we can communicate with other people then we reached our goal. The 'correct' (dangerous word that) form of pizza is pítiça and nobody writes like that. The same with Hong Kong: if we write Hongue Congue it would be read as 'Hongey Kongey', and nobody say this way. The thing is, Academia Brasileira de Letras is a useless, prejudiced, elitist, pointless organization with a bunch of geezers who have no idea of what language really is and they think they can order people to talk and write the way they think it's better. They have no power to rule a language and think people will accept. Take the recent reform for example: they thought they could unify the brazilian and portuguese forms and look at the mess we got here: people in Brazil is upset, Portugal is totally pissed. It happened before, other reforms had to be canceled because people didn't accept. I think that's what is going to happen this time: Acordo Ortográfico of 2009 is a big fat failed project thank god... I agree there are too many foreign words circulating in Brazil in these 'digital era times' but that's how it always was. We have french, arabic, latin, tupi and a bunch of other influences, and that's our wonderful portuguese language with a tropical flavour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Great post Victor!!! By the way, the written language is a form to represent the spoken language - 1st thing people learns in university while studying the languages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I know it's off topic but the linguistics issues are my department so I can't resist.Nobody can force people to communicate in this or that way. Language is serious stuff and I mean serious in multiple levels: personal, regional, cultural, national and international. It's our main 'tool' of communication and if we can communicate with other people then we reached our goal. The 'correct' (dangerous word that) form of pizza is pítiça and nobody writes like that. The same with Hong Kong: if we write Hongue Congue it would be read as 'Hongey Kongey', and nobody say this way. The thing is, Academia Brasileira de Letras is a useless, prejudiced, elitist, pointless organization with a bunch of geezers who have no idea of what language really is and they think they can order people to talk and write the way they think it's better. They have no power to rule a language and think people will accept. Take the recent reform for example: they thought they could unify the brazilian and portuguese forms and look at the mess we got here: people in Brazil is upset, Portugal is totally pissed. It happened before, other reforms had to be canceled because people didn't accept. I think that's what is going to happen this time: Acordo Ortográfico of 2009 is a big fat failed project thank god... I agree there are too many foreign words circulating in Brazil in these 'digital era times' but that's how it always was. We have french, arabic, latin, tupi and a bunch of other influences, and that's our wonderful portuguese language with a tropical flavour. Really cool man, this is what I was trying to say. Hongue Kongue, pitiça, and this kind of bulshit, is useless, prejudiced and elitist...there is no problem in having foreign words in our wonderful portuguese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Good, Henrique... Is useless since we can undestand the same fonetic for Hong Kong.. We don't need to write Hongue Congue to understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpman Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Good discussion. Even more because I was watching yesterday the entrance of Nations at Barcelona 92 OC. If Rio OC follow the same IOC rules we will have Chinese Taipei (not Formosa or Taiwan) and Côte d’Ivoire - both on their original languages. Russian Federation can be presented as "Federação Russa" but it´s more likely to enter under "R" countries. Macedônia probably will enter "Antiga (or EX-) República Iugoslava da Macedônia" under the "M" countries. Sorry for our friends who dislike "Países Baixos", but I bet we will not see any "Holanda" for Netherlands. It will be Países Baixos. For United Kingdom, like they did for Barcelona, we will have most certainly Grã-Bretanha. Now the Korea issue. It will depend on political issues at the time. If the countries enter together will be just Coreia under the "C" countries. If separated we will see South Korea as Coreia and North Korea as República Popular Democratica da Coreia - in Barcelona 92 under the "R" countries". Now I will agree with Danny (oh no! the end of the world! LOL ) that Hong Kong and Kuwait most certainly will follow the international standart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceNarcissus Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Well, since I do an awful lot of linguistic research I have this to say. Yes it's kind of unfortunate how many languages are thinning out with commonalities, but every single language in the world is born in the evolution of other languages and will always have roots to other languages. No language exists in homeostasis because culture and environment always change, and now with the rapid onset of globalization our linguistic evolution is beginning to match its pace. That being said, groups who make strong efforts to synchronize language groups aren't necessarily a bad element. They put into perspective language that is good for interaction vs. language that is good for "intra"action, and that particular language's evolution often follows a harmonious middle ground. This slows linguistic evolution (albeit just slightly), and considering the light speed language is changing today (less and less mutually unintelligible are being spoken, and the major languages are growing in size and number of dialects), slowing the process artificially may not be such a bad thing, like by promoting more intergenerational knowledge exchange for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Mata Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Good discussion. Even more because I was watching yesterday the entrance of Nations at Barcelona 92 OC. If Rio OC follow the same IOC rules we will have Chinese Taipei (not Formosa or Taiwan) and Côte d’Ivoire - both on their original languages. I believe there will be no problem in translating Chinese Teipei to Taipé Chinês and Côted'Ivore to Costa do Marfim. Those are the usual forms in brazilian portuguese and remember, the announcer will speak in English, French and Portuguese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Good discussion. Even more because I was watching yesterday the entrance of Nations at Barcelona 92 OC. If Rio OC follow the same IOC rules we will have Chinese Taipei (not Formosa or Taiwan) and Côte d’Ivoire - both on their original languages.Russian Federation can be presented as "Federação Russa" but it´s more likely to enter under "R" countries. Macedônia probably will enter "Antiga (or EX-) República Iugoslava da Macedônia" under the "M" countries. Sorry for our friends who dislike "Países Baixos", but I bet we will not see any "Holanda" for Netherlands. It will be Países Baixos. For United Kingdom, like they did for Barcelona, we will have most certainly Grã-Bretanha. Now the Korea issue. It will depend on political issues at the time. If the countries enter together will be just Coreia under the "C" countries. If separated we will see South Korea as Coreia and North Korea as República Popular Democratica da Coreia - in Barcelona 92 under the "R" countries". Now I will agree with Danny (oh no! the end of the world! LOL ) that Hong Kong and Kuwait most certainly will follow the international standart. I bet it will be Países Baixos too, but don´t be surprise if you'll see Holanda, since even the embassy in Brazil accept this name: http://www.embaixada-holanda.org.br/...when you get into the portuguse version there is something like that: Países Baixos, also know as Holanda. So, both forms are correct, as I said before, maybe Holland is something diferent from Nedherlands, but in Brazilian Portuguese, Holanda means Nedherlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I bet it will be Países Baixos too, but don´t be surprise if you'll see Holanda, since even the embassy in Brazil accept this name: http://www.embaixada-holanda.org.br/...when you get into the portuguse version there is something like that: Países Baixos, also know as Holanda. So, both forms are correct, as I said before, maybe Holland is something diferent from Nedherlands, but in Brazilian Portuguese, Holanda means Nedherlands. http://www.embaixada-holanda.org.br/ correct site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpman Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I bet it will be Países Baixos too, but don´t be surprise if you'll see Holanda, since even the embassy in Brazil accept this name: http://www.embaixada-holanda.org.br/...when you get into the portuguse version there is something like that: Países Baixos, also know as Holanda. So, both forms are correct, as I said before, maybe Holland is something diferent from Nedherlands, but in Brazilian Portuguese, Holanda means Nedherlands. Yes, I know that (about the embassy). Curiously as the Netherland entered the stadium in Barcelona, the TVE (Spain TV network) commentator said: "Holanda.... os Países Baixos". I think other countries uses Holanda too. But if we count IOC tradition we will see probably Países Baixos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I believe there will be no problem in translating Chinese Teipei to Taipé Chinês and Côted'Ivore to Costa do Marfim. Those are the usual forms in brazilian portuguese and remember, the announcer will speak in English, French and Portuguese. I doubt that the team of Côte d'Ivoire will compete, when it has to entrance as Costa do Marfim, since there is a law in the country, which forbid any translation into another language! They are not able to force that many people use the translation in the normal usage of a language, but you can be sure that the country will be insistent to enter as Côte d'Ivoire! portuguese wikipedia: Apesar de comumente se usar em português o nome Costa do Marfim, o governo marfinês solicitou à comunidade internacional em outubro de 1985 que o país seja chamado apenas por Côte d'Ivoire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Mata Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 They are not able to force that many people use the translation in the normal usage of a language, but you can be sure that the country will be insistent to enter as Côte d'Ivoire! A bunch of divas they are huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 A bunch of divas they are huh? yeah - they are divas! But I recommend not to call them that, since they are very homophob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Well, if they have a problem with translations, so the sign (that some volunteers carry) will be written: Côte d'Ivoire / Côte d'Ivoire / Côte d'Ivoire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roux Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Well, if they have a problem with translations, so the sign (that some volunteers carry) will be written: Côte d'Ivoire / Côte d'Ivoire / Côte d'Ivoire In Athens, they paraded towards the front as Ακτή Ελεφαντοστού (Akti Elefantostou) but I guess the Greek alphabet has something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 yeah - they are divas! But I recommend not to call them that, since they are very homophob! Don't call they divas... They are only called Côte d'Ivoire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I'm curious to see the reaction of the brazillian crowd when the portuguese delegation enters the stadium, will they boo or cheer? Both Brazilian and Portuguese present at the OC will be very proud for hearing the Portuguese Language for the first time in such event. There is a mix of feeling among us and the Portuguese people, but I think friendship will prevail. If you asked this because the crowd reaction during the PANAM Games OC, don't worry. You must have in mind the carioca way of life. They booed Argentina, Cuba and USA. And President Lula, of course. Why? No one knows. But some hypotesis. Argentina: rivalry from football, despite the fact of being called "hermanos" by Brazilian; Cuba: rivalry from volleyball; USA: days before the OC a member of the USA delegation wrote "Welcome to Congo" in a blackboard, someone took a picture and the press did its job; President Lula: no real reason, Federal Government saved the games from that times's City Administration. It is said tha the former Mayor gave thousands of tickets to his clap just to do that for President Lula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 They also booed a little Uruguay... They were booing everything... It seemed to be fun at that day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Do you agree this thread should be moved to Rio de Janeiro games new section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Mata Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Did they boo Uruguay? I don't remember that. I remember people booing Venezuela and Bolívia, I didn't get it but probably it happened because of Chávez and Morales and all that stuff around energy trade . And when México entered people got pretty excited, at least the ones sitting close to me. And when we were in line to enter the stadium and the buses with the athletes were arriving, people applauded them a lot, specially the Canadian athletes, who were cheering with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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