DannyelBrazil Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm curious to see the reaction of the brazillian crowd when the portuguese delegation enters the stadium, will they boo or cheer? Probably it will make no difference at all... There is no reason to boo Portuguese delegation... Do you have any problems with Brazil... Because you are making a lot of weird comments about us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsyPepper Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Probably it will make no difference at all...There is no reason to boo Portuguese delegation... Do you have any problems with Brazil... Because you are making a lot of weird comments about us... Golan, Danny has a nice point here. Why *exactly* would we boo the Portuguese delegation? I am having a hard time understanding your points when you post. Would you be so kind to enlighten me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Golan, Danny has a nice point here.Why *exactly* would we boo the Portuguese delegation? I am having a hard time understanding your points when you post. Would you be so kind to enlighten me? I can't see a point either... Since Portugal is not a major country in Sports on geopolitically speaking... And indeed, people in Brazil uses to be very kind with Portuguese people here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis-The-Dentist Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Denis, KYW are usual for Brazilian Portuguese since 1993 (by a resolution of senate). The new orthographic reform only made it valid for the other countries.I work in the media and if we have two ways of writing a name, we should use the most easy and most known, for example Hong Kong... Probably RIO-OCOG will use the "consagrada" form... You know, Daniel, I always agree with you but in this specific theme I won't. The media - I know that you work in it. And that's exactly what I am talking about. The so called Forma consagrada of words, especially by the speakers of the Brazilian Portuguese variation of the language as the MEDIA and COMMON USAGE want the Portuguese language to be, does not imply that the CORRECT USAGE of this language will just disappear! Where is Professor Pasquale Cipro Neto to HELP ME! AHHHHHHHHH! Where do I start... Well KYW... THESE three letters have NEVER been part of the alphabet in any of the Portuguese Speaking countries during the years of 1944-2008. There's no such thing as this Brazilian senate resolution concerning the KYW letters you are telling me, I am so sorry to tell you that. I know where you are probably misunderstanding it. Each country, especially Brazil, used their own rules before "unifying", but there was a GENERAL RULE rule that KYW could be used in alien words, AS LONG AS there isn't a proper Portuguese name for that word. For example, the alien name Kilowatt will NEVER be correctly spelt in portuguese if you spell it that way, because there are two Portuguese versions for that word: Quilovate and Quilovata. PERIOD. If fucking Rede Globo (I don't know if you work for them but that's what I think) and the schools showcase the word Kilowatt written this way, it's because they think it's fancy but IT IS WRONG! But if you want to name your newborn daughter Kelly, for example, you are allowed to do so, JUST BECAUSE there isn't any Portuguese name for that word. IN PORTUGAL, BTW, even with this rule, it would be REALLY HARD for you to name your daughter Kelly. I think it is even forbidden. I have here two important documents - This one AOLP.pdf cites some Brazilian orthographic rules until february 2009 and minor comparisions with the FORMAL (I SAID FORMAL PLEASE UNDERSTAND, NOT COMMON, FOUL OR MEDIA LANGUAGE) spoken by the seven main Portuguese speaking countries of the world: Angola, Brasil, Cabo Verde, Guiné-Bissau, Moçambique, Portugal e São Tomé e Príncipe and this one acordo_ortografico_1990.pdf concerning the new acordo ortográfico that was signed in 1990 but that just started being a rule earlier in 2009. Before this acordo, there were different rules for both variations of the Portuguese Language (BTW they are two, BR Portuguese spoken ONLY in Brazil and European Portuguese spoken in Portugal, Moçambique, Cabo Verde, Guiné-Bissau, Angola, São Tomé e Príncipe) but this didn't imply that any of these two variations of the language could allow changes to be made in the language in order to butcher them. Any changes had to be appointed to all the Acadêmia de Letras of these countries before starting to rule, even if it was just to rule in one of the countries. With the new Acordo Ortográfico, there were major changes in order to reach close to an unification, which will never happen because there are phonetic rules that cannot be changed between Brazil and Portugal, for example Antônio in Brazil and António in Portugal. But many things are equal now in Bth countries like The before correct Liqüidificador in Brazil is now like they used to speak in Portugal, Liquidificador. The letters KWY were one of the major changes as they were JUST reintroduced to the language, but it doesn't mean that we can create words with these letters. They are now counted in our alphabet but their use is STILL restricted to alien words like said in the Art Segundo of the Acordo (pay special attention to the LAST paragraph): 2.º As letras k, w e y usam-se nos seguintes casos especiais: a - Em antropónimos/antropônimos originários de outras línguas e seus derivados: Franklin, frankliniano; Kant, kantismo, Darwin, darwinismo; Wagner, wagneriano; Byron, byroniano; Taylor, taylorista; b - Em topónimos/topônimos originários de outras línguas e seus derivados: Kwanza, Kuwait, kuwaitiano; Malawi, malawiano; c - Em siglas, símbolos e mesmo em palavras adotadas como unidades de medida de curso internacional: TWA, KLM; K-potássio (de kalium) W-oeste (West); kg-quilograma, km-quilómetro, kW-kilowatt, yd-jarda (yard); Watt. 3.º Em congruência com o número anterior, mantêm-se nos vocábulos derivados eruditamente de nomes próprios estrangeiros quaisquer combinações gráficas ou sinais diacríticos não peculiares à nossa escrita que figurem nesses nomes: comtista, de Comte, garrettiano, de Garrett; jeffersónia/jeffersônia, de Jefferson; mülleriano, de Müller, shakespeariano, de Shakespeare. Os vocabulários autorizados registarão grafias alternativas admissíveis, em casos de divulgação de certas palavras de tal tipo de origem (a exemplo de fúcsia/fúchsia e derivados, buganvília/buganvílea/bougainvíllea). 4.º Os dígrafos finais de origem hebraica ch, ph e th podem conservar-se em formas onomásticas da tradição bíblica, como Baruch, Loth, Moloch, Ziph, ou então simplificar-se: Baruc, Lot, Moloc, Zif. Se qualquer um destes dígrafos, em formas do mesmo tipo, é invariavelmente mudo, elimina-se: José, Nazaré, em vez de Joseph, Nazareth; e se algum deles, por força do uso, permite adaptação, substitui- se, recebendo uma adição vocálica: Judite, em vez de Judith. 5.º As consoantes finais grafadas b, c, d, g e t mantêm-se, quer sejam mudas quer proferidas nas formas onomásticas em que o uso as consagrou, nomeadamente antropónimos/antropônimos e topónimos/topônimos da tradição bíblica: Jacob, Job, Moab, Isaac, David, Gad; Gog, Magog; Bensabat, Josafat. Integram-se também nesta forma: Cid, em que o d é sempre pronunciado; Madrid e Valladolid, em que o d ora é pronunciado, ora não; e Calecut ou Calicut, em que o t se encontra nas mesmas condições. Nada impede, entretanto, que dos antropónimos/antropônimos em apreço sejam usados sem a consoante final Jó, Davi e Jacó. 6.º Recomenda-se que os topónimos/topônimos de línguas estrangeiras se substituam, tanto quanto possível, por formas vernáculas, quando estas sejam antigas e ainda vivas em português ou quando entrem, ou possam entrar, no uso corrente. Exemplo: Anvers, substituído por Antuérpia; Cherbourg, por Cherburgo; Garonne, por Garona; Génève, por Genebra; Jutland, por Jutlândia; Milano, por Milão; München, por Munique; Torino, por Turim; Zürich, por Zurique, etc. Please guys, refrain yourself from what you are saying. If after all this I have't made my point I don't know what will. If the organizing committee will make the same common horrific mistakes the mass media have been doing that has been killing the memory of our correct language, especially amongst the little ones, who BTW will probably never hear words like Hongue Congue or if they do, will think it is funny instead of Correct, it will be MORE THAN A PITTY, it will be a shame and we will lose a great opportunity to showcase how rich our beautiful language is to the World and teach our kids properly. For the guys who do not speak portuguese, I can make my point to you guys too if I wasn't clear with this text, if you want. I don't know if the mixture of languages will get through you but I can find english articles explaining what's going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4gamesandcounting Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Back on topic... Will there be any new countries making a debut at the 2016 games?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis-The-Dentist Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Back on topic... Will there be any new countries making a debut at the 2016 games?! way too far for us to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golan Trevize Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I can't see a point either... Since Portugal is not a major country in Sports on geopolitically speaking...And indeed, people in Brazil uses to be very kind with Portuguese people here... It was a light hearted question, I've explained before that my question was about the way portuguese people are usually the punch line in many brasilian jokes. I've got nothing against Brasil, unlike most portuguese people I don't feel a special connection with the brasilian people but that doesn't mean that I have any ill feelings towards them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis-The-Dentist Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 It was a light hearted question, I've explained before that my question was about the way portuguese people are usually the punch line in many brasilian jokes. I've got nothing against Brasil, unlike most portuguese people I don't feel a special connection with the brasilian people but that doesn't mean that I have any ill feelings towards them. I am Brazilian and I hate jokes making fun of people of other nationalities especially the Portuguese. But I've seen Portuguese makign fun of Brazilians in my face in Lisbon once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golan Trevize Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I am Brazilian and I hate jokes making fun of people of other nationalities especially the Portuguese. But I've seen Portuguese makign fun of Brazilians in my face in Lisbon once. All I can say is that there are idiots in every country on earth, specially in Lisbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis-The-Dentist Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 All I can say is that there are idiots in every country on earth, specially in Lisbon. there are many Brazilian fools who love to make fun of our Portuguese friends. I hate that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I can say now it's more common to make jokes on Argentinians than Portugueses now-a-days.. It was old humour, don't worry, portuguese friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 You know, Daniel, I always agree with you but in this specific theme I won't. (...) too big to quote Denis, I need to disagree about your post, since Portuguese, specially in Brazil, is a language in transformation. Take the example of the word você... It came from vossa mercê -> voismicê -> você (In Portugal você is not used as we use it in Brazil) The huge mistake of this orthographic reform is to put rules in a language that isn't dead... And those rules, indeed, are not being replaced in Portugal (since they simply doesn't agree to change their day-by-day way of writing) Let's remember that Portuguese itself and Spanish too came for Vulgar Latin language, which really means, the latin spoken with mistakes... I'll search Internet to find some articles about the usage of K, W, Y... I remember when I was a child, when Brazil adopted those letters, yes, for, initially foreigners words... BTW, during the PanAm, we had Antilhas Holandesas instead Antilhas Neerlandesas (which, by your way of thought is the correct). So probably, consagrada form, that by the name itself explains why Portuguese is not a dead language, probably will be used... Denis, don't be angry with the media... The media only uses the way people are used to... And, let's agree on it, who makes a language is the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I want to say one more thing... Never Kwait was Couaite in Brazil... This form is accepted only in Portugal... In Brazil is Kuwaite. We need to not mix up the forms written in Portugal those written in Brazil... For example the capital of Russia for the Brazilians is Moscou and for the Portuguese is Moscovo or the Netherlands capital... For BR is Amsterdã and for PT is Amsterdão or the finnish capital... For BR is Helsinque and for PT is Helsínquia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I want to say one more thing...Never Kwait was Couaite in Brazil... This form is accepted only in Portugal... In Brazil is Kuwaite. We need to not mix up the forms written in Portugal those written in Brazil... For example the capital of Russia for the Brazilians is Moscou and for the Portuguese is Moscovo or the Netherlands capital... For BR is Amsterdã and for PT is Amsterdão or the finnish capital... For BR is Helsinque and for PT is Helsínquia That´s it. But why in Pan American Games they did not use Antilhas dos Países Baixos I think it will be betther we change the name of "Paises Baixos", to "Neerlanda" or "Neerlândia", as I had said before. If we are going to use the consagrada form, then it will be Holanda. I don´t see any problem with that, because maybe in other language, Holland means only a part of the country, and Nedherlands the correct name, but in Brazilian Portuguese, Holanda should means Nedherlands, what is the problem with that ? Países Baixos e sucha a ugly name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluz Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I think this is a pointless discussion, but remember that the orthographic rules in Brazil were changed in the beginning of 2009 because of the new agreement with Portugal. So, the country names might be changed to use the characters as done before in Portugal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I think this is a pointless discussion, but remember that the orthographic rules in Brazil were changed in the beginning of 2009 because of the new agreement with Portugal. So, the country names might be changed to use the characters as done before in Portugal. No, Aluz... The names will still the same for both countries... Indeed, some accents will not change for both... In case of Armênia in Brazil and Arménia in Portugal <--- These will not change. About Países Baixos and Holanda... I'd rather Países Baixos, since it's more correct... Neerlândia would be too weird, even for those from Portugal. That's why I really think this ortographic reform is useless... Indeed... Assembléia, Européia are still with accent in Portugal, I just watched it in RTP... There are many Portuguese people that already said they will not respect the changes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis-The-Dentist Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'm out of this thread. Gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roux Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I've seen some serious problems with this topic. Whether it's Brazillian Portugese or Portugese Portugese, it has to be the equivalent of the name the IOC recognizes the country as. The IOC recognizes "Great Britain" and not "United Kingdom." It may be informally refered to as United Kingdom or UK (in fact the Olympic web-site even refers to the host nation as United Kingdom on its page on London 2012) but officially it's Great Britain. That's not such a big deal, however. It's like "six one way and half-a-dozen the other." Brits wouldn't be offended either way (do correct me if I'm wrong, but Brits I've come into contact with don't seem to care.) There are some more serious names to watch out for due to political reasons. Danny mentioned "Taipé Chinesa or Formosa" NO NO NO NO NO! It is Chinese Taipei in English & French (the IOC's official languages) and the equivalent in the host country's language. Not Taiwan, not Formosa, Chinese Taipei. Even worse, if you put "Macedônia", no matter how you spell it, after "Luxemburgo" the Greeks will boycott your games! Even if they don't realize until they come parading in the stadium, the Greeks will be like "κόλαση όχι!" and high-tail it back to the village to pack their bags. It is the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, FYROM (though you wouldn't alphabetize based on the abbreviation, just like with USA.) So don't forget the "República iugoslava anterior de" when introducing "Macedônia." I have no idea if that translation's correct, btw. I just went to FreeTranslation.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 So we will have: Grã-Bretanha Antiga República Iugoslava da Macedônia Taipé Chinesa Denis, come back to the thread, all your points are valid... Only I told you that probably RIO-OCOG will use consagrada form (the terms peoples knows better). You are against it... But many people in Brazil can not understand which country is the "Países Baixos"... Believe me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 About FYR Macedonia... It can also be called Ex-República Iugoslava da Macedônia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roux Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I know it is too far off to predict what new NOC's there'll be, but why don't we just for fun assume the following likely situations will happen by 2016 (ordered from most likely to least likely in my opinion): Kosovo is recognized by the IOC Netherlands Antilles dissolves, making Curaco and Saint Maarten (SP?) independent nations. Macau finally gets their act together and gets IOC recognition New Caledonia declares its independence from France (there'll be a referendum in 2014) Denmark allows Greenland to have an NOC Morrocco finally gives up on Western Sahara France lets go of Martinique There are finally enough people in Anguilla for them to decide to form an NOC. Where would this put our new theoretical participants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roux Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 About FYR Macedonia...It can also be called Ex-República Iugoslava da Macedônia. That's similar to French. "Ex-République Yougoslave de Macédoine" is used and not really the literal translation "Ancienne République....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citius Altius Fortius Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I know it is too far off to predict what new NOC's there'll be, but why don't we just for fun assume the following likely situations will happen by 2016 (ordered from most likely to least likely in my opinion):Kosovo is recognized by the IOC Netherlands Antilles dissolves, making Curaco and Saint Maarten (SP?) independent nations. Macau finally gets their act together and gets IOC recognition New Caledonia declares its independence from France (there'll be a referendum in 2014) Denmark allows Greenland to have an NOC Morrocco finally gives up on Western Sahara France lets go of Martinique There are finally enough people in Anguilla for them to decide to form an NOC. Where would this put our new theoretical participants? That is an interesting issue - maybe we should start a new thread in the "General Olympics section" - it is astonishing that the dependent territories of France have no own NOC, but the British, American, Dutch Furthermore I think we have to differ between the overseas territories and the overseas departments of France - since e.g. Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guyana belong to France as overseas departments - e.g. French Polynesia or New Caledonia are overseas territories... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I know it is too far off to predict what new NOC's there'll be, but why don't we just for fun assume the following likely situations will happen by 2016 (ordered from most likely to least likely in my opinion):Kosovo is recognized by the IOC Netherlands Antilles dissolves, making Curaco and Saint Maarten (SP?) independent nations. Macau finally gets their act together and gets IOC recognition New Caledonia declares its independence from France (there'll be a referendum in 2014) Denmark allows Greenland to have an NOC Morrocco finally gives up on Western Sahara France lets go of Martinique There are finally enough people in Anguilla for them to decide to form an NOC. Where would this put our new theoretical participants? Well... Kossovo or Cossovo (first more likely) Curaçao and Saint Maarten (São Martin probably will be not use) Macau Nova Caledônia Dinamarca and Groenlândia Marrocos and Saara Ocidental Martinica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallagnese Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Denis, I think Gra-Bretanha is the name of the island and Great Britain is the name of the political unit/country/kingdom. Oh and I forgot to mention, Great Britain can be both REINO UNIDO or GRÃ-BRETANHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.