Doha Or Dubai?

[baron-pierreIV]

And yet this same NOC can't find one single female athlete to send to Beijing?

Is it possible that no Qatari (or recently branded) female Qatari athlete could've met the minimum qualifying standards?

[LuigiVercotti]

Qatar already sent women athletes to the Youth Olympic Games in Singapore, Qatari Women in sports is still a young movement, considering that School Olympic Day program launched with conjunction of the 2016 Olympic Bid is actually still practiced. Aspire Sport Academy which was started in 2005 is also working steps to have good athletes in all sport disciplines.

The formation of many women teams in recent time shows interest in it. We are soon to form a womens football league in Qatar.

There is no sort of discrimination in Qatar against women, considering that the Bid Ambassador for the 2016 Olympic bid was a Qatar women, Nada.

This is not Saudi Arabia, Iran or Afganistan ! Get over your self !

Jews ? What about them ? Its a religion like any other one. We have Jews in Qatar its normal ! Israelis ? we had there athletes take part in tournaments already so thats out of the question (not to mention their flag raised) , there is no form of discrimination I wonder where you get such ideas.

I get my ideas from actually doing some research and quoting sources such as the following:

Qatar rejects appeals to respect Human Rights

Rejecting recommendations from the UN's own Human Rights Council about women's rights that anyone from Sweden, Canada, Chile, Australia, the uS etc take for granted is proof positive of the ignorance and BS your statement represents.

Human Rights in State of Qatar

Who should we believe; a jingoistic Qatari teenager or Amnesty International, one of the premiere and most authorative bodies on human rights. In summary:

Hundreds of people were arbitrarily deprived of their nationality. Women continued to face discrimination and violence. Foreign migrant workers were exploited and abused, and inadequately protected under the law. At least 20 people were on death row but there were no executions.

UNHCR Report on the Status of Women in Qatar 2010

Here's a couple of salient recommendations from this UN Report that are indicative of the true status of women in your country:

• The government should amend Articles 94 and 95 of the labor law, which treat women as minors who are unable to make informed decisions when choosing their professions, and should permit women to act as representatives of Qatar abroad by allowing them to participate in the Foreign Service.
  
• The government should remove the reservations to CEDAW and fully implement the convention within domestic law.
  
• The government should criminalize domestic violence and take effective measures to prosecute offenders and protect victims by, among other things, increasing police and medical training to recognize and intervene where abuse is evident, continuing to conduct workshops and seminar series intended to help society overcome its reluctance to address the issue, and providing shelter and economic aid to victims of domestic abuse and their dependent children.
  
• The government should rescind the law requiring a male guardian's permission for a woman to obtain a driver's license and abolish rules that may prohibit women from travelling freely.
  
• Existing laws on peaceful assembly should be reformed to meet international standards, and demonstration permit denials should be subject to appeal in the courts, thereby permitting all legal protesters, including women, to fully realize their right to assembly.
  

If you'd like to starting posting some refutation evidence go right ahead, but instead of posting citations from your government controlled media how about working on finding evidence from the UN or other such bodies.

As for Qatari relations with Israel (including it's freezing of any contact after the military strikes on Gaza in 2008/2009) or the treatment of gays and lesbians in your country we could start discussing that too and I could again cite numerous documentary evidence from impartial, non-Qatari government sponsored mouth pieces. However I suspect your juvenile and blinkered bigotry which is no doubt cosseted by a state that has used it's resource wealth to justify its semi-feudal approach to government, society and human rights will mean you will just shrilly yell and whine then cite another member of your absolute monarchy's royal family making some grand pronouncement.

[LuigiVercotti]

Is it possible no Qatari (or recently branded) female Qatari athlete could've met the minimum qualifying standards?

My question exactly Baron. And also considering that the IOC and the various sports federations have a policy of accepting athletes from all countries no matter their standard if it can be seen as progressing values inherent in Olympic Solidarity, then why didn't Qatar's NOC ask for such an exemption/admittance? Could it have been they would have been embarrassed to have a female athlete fail miserably? And how indicative is this of the paucity of support for women's sport in Qatar.

And as for their participation in Singapore as far as I can tell they only had 1 female entrant (a shooter).

Hardly a ringing endorsement of women's participation across all Olympic sports (which is something that all host NOCs have been able to demonstrate in at least the last four or five SOGs).

[baron-pierreIV]

Seb, you know it is going to be the Men's World Cup? Not the ladies.

[LuigiVercotti]

Seb, you know it is going to be the Men's World Cup? Not the ladies.

Baron, you know we're talking about the Olympics, not the World Cup.

[Athan]

I feel many people hate Qatar just because of their victory for the WC. I understand 2 of the most beloved countries on these forums (Australia and England) were also bidding and both lost, but that isn't Qatar's fault really.

BTW, I have to say I don't like the ways countries like Qatar or Bahrein win their medals either (or the arrogance of the sheikhs and its court - which also applies to Azerbaijan), but we have to admit it's not illegal.

We don't like it when Muslim countries say that other cultures are bull$*!t and that theirs is the best and all that, but WE also attack them sometimes nonsensically. It's gone a bit far, hasn't it?

[LuigiVercotti]

I feel many people hate Qatar just because of their victory for the WC. I understand 2 of the most beloved countries on these forums (Australia and England) were also bidding and both lost, but that isn't Qatar's fault really.

BTW, I have to say I don't like the ways countries like Qatar or Bahrein win their medals either (or the arrogance of the sheikhs and its court - which also applies to Azerbaijan), but we have to admit it's not illegal.

We don't like it when Muslim countries say that other cultures are bull$*!t and that theirs is the best and all that, but WE also attack them sometimes nonsensically. It's gone a bit far, hasn't it?

Athan, it's not about hating Qatar; it's about holding them up to the same standards that are built into the IOC's Charter and that have been used in the past to also criticise other NOCs and their respective host cities, irrespective of their religious or racial background. It would be entirely appropriate to also draw into focus the disconnect between (say for example) the institutionalised poverty in Rio, the muzzled media in Sochi, the argued excesses of surveillance of the individual in London, indigenous rights as pertinent to Vancouver or Sydney etc etc. The discussion is justified on the context of this thread's theme in that if Doha wishes to host the games then it should morally be held accountable to the same standards that previous successful candidates were supposedly held to.

If on the other hand you want to jettison that context then sure, let's give the Qatari's every possible chance to host the SOGs. But then again you are caught in the dilemma that unlike preceding successful NOCs who have placed bids the Qatari NOC has zero history when it comes to success in participation, a flakey at best standard when it comes to the participation of Qatari women at the SOGs and crucially not a single significant supporter in the IOC's hierarchy. This was borne out by their failure to progress beyond the evaluation process for 2016 and to be blunt that will kill any Doha bid as long as there are other more important, better credentialled and IOC significant members behind other bids.

[FYI]

I don't think that anybody is "hating" on Qatar. Only the absurdity of a city-nation being allowed to host one of the biggest sporting events on the planet, which in the past, has required a string-load of cities from across a country to accommodate. And that's not even going into the other dillemmas, of which one includes that Qatar has a virtual non-existent soccer tradition.

The inconsistency of FIFA's 2022 decision, in comparison to all other World Cups of the past, (with the exclusion of Uruguay 1930, but that was literally decades ago) leads a lot of people to be very suspicious. Seriously, how can ONE CITY really (of less than a million people to boot) do the same job that B4 took literally up to a dozen cities to do. There's something very wrong with that picture. Had Qatar & the UAE together went in on this & won, at least logistically speaking, it would've been a little more understandable. But a single city (cuz that's all Qatar is, let's face it), c'mon.

FIFA should've just stopped at Russia, since that was going to be controversy enough for them, but doing a double-whammy on the same day is what's giving them the big-time heat, which in many instances is understandable, & particularly the 2022 decision.

[Rafa]

The extremes of the 2018 and 2022 hosts is quite fascinating.

Russia with host cities spread far and wide, and Qatar, one city, less than half the size of Moscow.

[Triffle]

love reading your posts eusebius65! could not agree more

[Triffle]

Israelis ? we had there athletes take part in tournaments already so thats out of the question (not to mention their flag raised) , there is no form of discrimination I wonder where you get such ideas.

Woww!!! you even had their flag raised!!! how about recognising the state even exists? Many Head of State's often visit the Summer Olympics Opening Ceremony; would the Israeli Prime Minister be welcomed on an official state visit(which couldnt really be possible if Qatar doesnt recognise Israel's sovereignty)?

[Detroit]

Woww!!! you even had their flag raised!!! how about recognising the state even exists? Many Head of State's often visit the Summer Olympics Opening Ceremony; would the Israeli Prime Minister be welcomed on an official state visit(which couldnt really be possible if Qatar doesnt recognise Israel's sovereignty)?

What Middle East Countries DO recognize Israel? Temporary recognition?

[Athan]

If on the other hand you want to jettison that context then sure, let's give the Qatari's every possible chance to host the SOGs. But then again you are caught in the dilemma that unlike preceding successful NOCs who have placed bids the Qatari NOC has zero history when it comes to success in participation, a flakey at best standard when it comes to the participation of Qatari women at the SOGs and crucially not a single significant supporter in the IOC's hierarchy.

If Qatar ever gets to host the Olympics, the IOC would force their women to take part. In fact, many Qatari women would be qualified as hosts. Has any other host refused to half of their "free" Olympic qualifying spots?

And that's not even going into the other dillemmas, of which one includes that Qatar has a virtual non-existent soccer tradition.

Yeah, but I think Qatar's sports culture is starting to grow quite fast. Do you know Aspire, the academy for sports excellence or something like that? If it's so excellent, several good athletes have to come out from there. And maybe it's too late for London 2012, but I believe Qatar will improve in Rio 2016 and in 2020.

Anyway, I wouldn't like Qatar to host the Olympics yet. I think it's better for them to wait at least for 4 or 5 Olympiads.

[LuigiVercotti]

If Qatar ever gets to host the Olympics, the IOC would force their women to take part. In fact, many Qatari women would be qualified as hosts. Has any other host refused to half of their "free" Olympic qualifying spots?

Yeah, but I think Qatar's sports culture is starting to grow quite fast. Do you know Aspire, the academy for sports excellence or something like that? If it's so excellent, several good athletes have to come out from there. And maybe it's too late for London 2012, but I believe Qatar will improve in Rio 2016 and in 2020.

Anyway, I wouldn't like Qatar to host the Olympics yet. I think it's better for them to wait at least for 4 or 5 Olympiads.

Intriguing notion; a NOC and its affiliated government positions a bid with no major success at the SOGs, no influential members on the IOC, legal, political and social issues that are in contravention of the spirit of the IOC charter, and then it's bid is partly fuelled by the hope that the IOC will force it to allow women to participate in every sport at the games.

So where does this place those bids, NOCs and countries where they have done the right thing and have a history of contributing to the Olympics in more than just opulent promises? Is it appropriate for (as an example) Rome and CONI to be put on the same level as Doha and the QOC? Or Durban and SASCOC? Or Tokyo and the JOC?

How can anyone take serious a construct behind a bid being "give us the games so we will have to expand the participation of women in sport"? That's akin to the Chinese saying to the IOC with both Beijing bids "give us the games and we will become more open politically". Guess who still bars Nobel prize winners from travelling to pick up their awards or still broaches no discussion on the rights of Tibet.

Whereas the likes of Blather think they can change the world with such inane slogans as 'new frontiers' and 'fair play', whilst dudding South Africa with only about 3% of their take from the 2010 WC, Jacques and the IOC are a little more circumspect about looking to a Doha and thinking of it as an avenue to reshape the world or even local society and gender attitudes through awarding them the SOGs. They were burnt by the Beijing experience (remember the conflict over media access in 2008) and surprisingly may just have the interests of the athletes uppermost after all.

As for Aspire it certainly has the right spin when it comes to promoting its efforts in developing sport and physical activity (even though the web site was almost totally dominated with images and promotional content focusing on boys and young men with football as the focus). However why is it that this government body (which appears to be staffed and run by a significant body on expats, not locals) is needed as almost a sole agent to help address gender imbalance? Again it has to be asked; how can the IOC justify awarding a SOG to Qatar's NOC and Doha when there is hardly any societal acceptance for mass female participation in sport, as there is in South Africa, Spain, Japan, South Korea, Russia, Canada and the vast majority of nations with a NOC. And that same selective and discriminatory attitude means that Qatar has yet to demonstrate in concrete terms the same participation on an equitable basis for their female athletes at the SOGs as their male athletes can.

[qatar son 333]

Dude, There is no discrimination get over it ! Its not liek they were banned from participating or anything.

The only reason that women were not there is because they simply were not able to qualify (mind you the citizen population is only 300,000 so its understandable...), other than that we usually have a good Women athlete participation in Asian Games. Especially Doha 2006 and Guangzhou 2010.

Detroit, Egypt & Jordan recognize Israel, in addition to having diplomatic missions.

Triffle, Our Emir visited Israel several times and met with top officials from the state, not to mention having officials from Israel visiting Qatar.

Shahar Peer participating in Qatar, Also wearing traditional Qatari clothes.

Ehem...

[Triffle]

yet they still fail to recognise Israel

[Triffle]

Dude, There is no discrimination get over it !

(mind you the citizen population is only 300,000 so its understandable...),

your suggesting a citizen population of 300,000 is entitled to hosting the FIFA World Cup and the Summer Olympics (a population smaller than every city featured in every other country bidding for 2022)...hmmmm... get over yourself

[qatar son 333]

your suggesting a citizen population of 300,000 is entitled to hosting the FIFA World Cup and the Summer Olympics (a population smaller than every city featured in every other country bidding for 2022)...hmmmm... get over yourself

Erm, we just did -------> QATAR HOST NATION OF 2022 FIFA WORLD CUP

Not to mention many, MANY more events, including bidding for the Formula 1

And the 2020 Summer Olympics.

[LuigiVercotti]

Well after we've had some more pretty photos from the Qatari Extremely Junior Minister for Denying Discrimination Exists By Posting Photos & Government Announcements Without Any Actual Independent Documentary Evidence, how about we look at some real truths or conundrums faced by any Doha bid.

For example, this figure of there being only 300,000 citizens means that Qatar's failure to send female athletes to Beijing is understandable is rather intriguing. Having worked with an NOC at the 2000 Olympics where it's population is only approx. 450,000 they were still able to send out of a team of 7 athletes, 4 female competitors. And unlike Qatar this NOC was able to point to a long history of Olympic participation with both men and women competing (and funnily enough the women when they got back home didn't have to get permission from their male guardians to be able to get their drivers licences). And as for the argument about the female athlete's not being able to qualify either that it is a lapse from the QOC (who like so many other NOCs supposedly looking to improve the access of female athletes to Olympic contest have provisos under Olympic Solidarity and other IF programs to enter female athletes who have not met qualification standards), or an indictment of a society that unlike almost every host NOC and associated nation since 1900 has been able to send female athletes to their games.

Also, having experienced Israeli Olympic security requirements I can tell you now that Israel would not be willing to send a fully equipped team to Doha. No Israeli government would be willing to authorise their nation's athletes to compete officially en masse in an Olympics where the host nation refuses to officially recognise that state. Yes, individuals may travel and compete but not the Israeli NOC. And by the way, Israel's IOC member Alex Gilady is one of the most important IOC members and I can guarantee you no matter how kindly or delusional) some may look upon the Qatari ambivalence to Israel (considering Qatar also has been reported in US diplomatic cables as 'the worst on counter terrorism in the Middle East') Israel's government will not look to a Doha SOGs being a safe venue for their nation's Olympians. And any failure of Qatar & Doha to actually meet the expected security arrangements of any nation participating at the SOGs would be seen as a massive fail for such a bid.

Perhaps we should look at the actual requirements for a SOGs; for example volunteers. SOCOG provided approximately 50,000 plus vollies for 2000, with almost every national, language and ethnicity represented. How can Doha begin to deliver on such an important logistical and social requirement of a modern Olympics when the local economy and society is already dependent upon guest workers from countries such as the Phillipines, Bangladesh etc etc? During the Sydney 2000 Games part of the volunteer workforce included women drivers...now of course who are going to be the Qatari women who will be a position to volunteer for just such the same role in possibly 2020? Or what about the involvement of local police and associated security forces? Has Doha got the manpower to protect and facilitate the security of approximately 15,000 athletes and officials, several thousand media workers and a potential for 500,000 plus spectators and tourists on a daily basis for not just 16 days, but also for the lead in to the SOGs as well as the Paralympics? This from a country that was expecting to increasing its tourism numbers to a million in one whole year.

So, instead of juvenile cries of 'no we don't discriminate dude' and filling up bandwidth of reposting glossy PR pics, let's get brutally real about the actual requirements of hosting an SOGs in a small city state that I repeat has no Olympic tradition, no influence at the IOC, a stultified and archaic attitude to personal liberties and the rights of women and gays, has no demonstrable capability when it comes to fulfilling the requirements of both the IOC charter nor the technical requirements for a games (as demonstrated by their failure to get past the technical evaluation component of the 2016 bid), and unlike the WC hasn't been able to use financial inducements and PR spin to get past the more scrupulous and arguably more ethical standards of a much broadly based sporting body that is the IOC.

[Triffle]

Erm, we just did -------> QATAR HOST NATION OF 2022 FIFA WORLD CUP

Not to mention many, MANY more events, including bidding for the Formula 1

And the 2020 Summer Olympics.

thats not a rebuttal

[Triffle]

my point was, how can a country so small, so obscure, so pointless and insignificant be entitled or deserving of hosting the World Cup and Olympic Games. To think that Qatar should even be remotely considered for either event (let alone, unfortunately, winning the bid for one) is ludicrous. You keep telling eusebius65 to get over himself, well he's not the one saying a country of 300,000 citizens should be hosting a plethora of major sporting events.

[Sir Rols]

Holmes sees no reason why Dubai cannot host 2024 Olympic Games

Dubai: Great Britain's former middle-distance double Olympic gold medallist Dame Kelly Holmes said yesterday, she saw no reason why Dubai's bid for the 2024 Olympic Games wouldn't be successful — provided the Emirate looked to Qatar's 2022 World Cup for solutions to combat the region's stifling mid-summer heat.

Speaking from the sidelines of her visit to Dubai College, where she held motivational talks with students followed by a short training session yesterday as a guest of British Telecom and the British Embassy, Holmes said: "By 2024 there's a good chance they [Dubai] will learn about the needs and expectations of infrastructure and of what the Games is all about."

"Qatar has the World Cup [in 2022] and that will probably give Dubai, in terms of time of year, [an idea of] what's needed and what's expected. They'll really get to see that expectation [first hand] and see whether it really worked," said Holmes, who picked up 800m and 1500m gold at Athens 2004 and was made Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire by the Queen in 2005 for her services to sports and the British Armed Forces.

Having foregone 2016 and 2020 Olympic bids, Dubai confirmed this summer that 2024 was the more feasible target. A warm-up hosting of either the Asian Games or Youth Olympics has been penciled in by the UAE National Olympic Committee — in the meantime — as an ideal opportunity to prove the city's ability as a major sports event host.

But heat, a major talking point of the Qatar World Cup and also Doha's failed 2016 Olympic bid four years ago, will surely resurface as the case against the hosting of major sports events in the region. Qatar, incidentally has rejoined the Olympic bidding race for 2020.

Holmes added: "There's no reason not to go for it. Sport is all about passion, it's about being able to deliver a massive games on time and on budget to give fundamentally the best experience for athletes. The only thing they'd have to consider is the time of year."

Gulf News

[intoronto]

Neither! None deserve it. But if I had to choose one I would pick Dubai.

[Athensfan]

Dame Kelly's response surprises me. For all the reasons already listed in this forum, neither Doha nor Dubai have the sporting tradition befitting an Olympic host.

The first Muslim host should be Istanbul. Full stop. Whether it will be 2020 or not is another question.....

[deawebo]

I rather Doha, they care more about sports, and have greater venues...