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Why Does Rio Insist On Two Stadiums?


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I think that the PanAm´s commitee had a really nice idea whey they made the opening ceremony: they reserved some seats at the stadium for the athletes to sit after the parade and watch the shows, instead of staying more than 1 hour stood up just hearing speeches !

This idea could really be applied again in the Olympics, since Maracana has a HUGE seating avaiability. That would be a really different opening ceremory and a truly way to treat the athletes with respect.

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Joao Havelange stadium have the Engenho de Dentro Supervia station the other side of the street. This line have modern trains with air-conditioning, and it's placed 25 minutes from Central do Brasil - Downtown station...

The stadium is also placed in the side of Linha Amarela - a six lane highway connecting Barra to Int'l Airport.

Check Google Earth. You are FULL wrong!!!!

You are not from Rio. You don't know what you talking about!!!!

Engenho de Dentro and surrounding areas are among the most dangerous in Rio. And the whole train system is harrowing (it really does not matter if the trains have air-conditioning - oooh, that is sooo modern!)

The only safe and clean transport system in Rio is the subway/underground: foreigners should be aware of that.

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By the way, foreigners should also be aware that the "super-duper-modern" "Linha Amarela", the highway that links the International Airport to the "Olympic" neighborhood of Barra and is next to the track and field venue (Engenhao-Joao Havelange), is as dangerous as a highway can get: buses, their drivers, and passengers are robbed and mugged almost every single day, as this ordinary article from last week reports: http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/transito/mat/2...s-767857129.asp (in Portuguese).

The crime situation in Rio was so sugar-coated for these Olympic Games it is almost funny that so many bought it: it is as close to a war zone as a city can get. Rio does not have a crime problem; Chicago has a crime problem. Rio has a military problem.

Which is why foreigners will probably be able to try to go the Engenha-Joao Havelange during the Olympics, as the city will be under siege... You should not visit the area if you come to Rio before or after the Olympics.

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Engenho de Dentro and surrounding areas are among the most dangerous in Rio. And the whole train system is harrowing (it really does not matter if the trains have air-conditioning - oooh, that is sooo modern!)

The only safe and clean transport system in Rio is the subway/underground: foreigners should be aware of that.

The train system is not what it used to be. Now it is much more comfortable and safer than it used to be. There are no more train surfers and many stations have been renovated. During the PanAm Games, most of the people that went to Engenhao used the train and it was considered a very good option. It is just a question of getting security in Central do Brasil station and continuing with the renovation of the system by buying new trains and renovating the stations.

And FYI, Engenho de Dentro and surroundings is not the safest place in Rio, but is pretty far from being one of the worst areas in terms of security.

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By the way, foreigners should also be aware that the "super-duper-modern" "Linha Amarela", the highway that links the International Airport to the "Olympic" neighborhood of Barra and is next to the track and field venue (Engenhao-Joao Havelange), is as dangerous as a highway can get: buses, their drivers, and passengers are robbed and mugged almost every single day, as this ordinary article from last week reports: http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/transito/mat/2...s-767857129.asp (in Portuguese).

The crime situation in Rio was so sugar-coated for these Olympic Games it is almost funny that so many bought it: it is as close to a war zone as a city can get. Rio does not have a crime problem; Chicago has a crime problem. Rio has a military problem.

Which is why foreigners will probably be able to try to go the Engenha-Joao Havelange during the Olympics, as the city will be under siege... You should not visit the area if you come to Rio before or after the Olympics.

When Rio said it had not problems with security?

Braz, you are playing the silly here... Stop it.

Indeed, your information is not accurate at all.

I bet you are not from Rio and you are jealows.

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People from 3 countries, Brazil not included, tried to show you a point to why Maracanã was a VERY WELL KNOWN stadium around the World and its importance not only to football/soccer, and you just ignored it.

And they also said that they didn't care for the two stadium idea either. You're the one doing the ignoring.

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People from 3 countries, Brazil not included, tried to show you a point to why Maracanã was a VERY WELL KNOWN stadium around the World and its importance not only to football/soccer, and you just ignored it.

P.S. It was also pointed out by at least one of those people how the so called "fame" of Maracana stadium was in no way a logical or great reason to justify have the Opening Ceremonies there.

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P.S. It was also pointed out by at least one of those people how the so called "fame" of Maracana stadium was in no way a logical or great reason to justify have the Opening Ceremonies there.

Having been always in a way (with the exeption of Athens) also no way a logical or great reason to justify not to have the Opening Ceremonies there.

I think this is a matter of personal point of view.

Logistically it's even better to have two stadiums and I'm sure they will find a way to compensate and keep the emotional side of the Olympic traditions...

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I am glad you like it

well the ceremonies in the past had really strict rules - there were not shows like today. For example the nations really marched into the stadium before 1972. In München (Munich) it was the first time that not military marches were played be the entrance of the nations. The music, which was played was adapted to the nation, which was just entering - you hear that for example by Brazil - a samba was played - when Germany entered a popular german folk song is played - when the USA entered the song "When the Saints go marching in" was played etc. etc.

You mentioned that the entrance of the nations was very fast - yes, that is true - that is a result of two things the teams were used to march into the stadium (the athletes from today are not used to that) and the music had a special beat per minute - the footsteps of the athletes adapt automatically to this beat...

The music was one new thing at the Opening Ceremony in Munich - before Munich 1972 eight soldiers carried the Olympic flag into the stadium - in Munich the olympic champions of eights rowing from Mexico did that - since Munich the Olympic flag is always carried into the stadium by athletes - the rowers even raised the flag in 1972, that isn't done anymore today (this is made by soldiers)

Entrance and raising of the Olympic Flag (appr. at 3:00)

LOL - I thought the same thing about the handbags

The original tapes of the television are still existing and I suppose they were remastered - in a German news channel, which is run by the public TV, it is tradition to show the Munich OC and another later Opening Ceremony (like Barcelona, Sydney or Atlanta) one or two days before a new one takes place - therefore they take good care of the tapes...

By the way you can find the complete Opening Ceremony and many other TV footage of 1972 here on this youtube channel: Olympia72.de If you require translation - I can help

Well - I am not sure about why only German was spoken during the OC - I suppose that was normal in that times - maybe baron knows when the rule was introduced - he is a specialist in questions of ceremonies...

Very Interesting Insights!

I know very little about the olympics before 1988. I have read a lot about, but images speak more than words for me. Since you gave me that video (I don't speak German but I realised by the title that the poster on youtube have divided it in parts so I changed "Olympische Spiele München 1972: Eröffnungsfeier (Teil 2 von 16)"to Teil 1 and 3 and 4 and so on) I watched the whole Munique (Oh, BTW that's the name of your city in Portuguese, hehe) ceremony. I will look for the other opening ceremonies avaiable on youtube and since you told me in Germany they are used to broadcast the past ceremonies before each olympics (I love how organised the Germans are) maybe another german have the other countries ceremonies too. I recorded Atlanta, Sydney, Athens and Beijing. (Atlanta and Sydney are on VHS and the other two on DVD). When I looked for a better version of the Atlanta on you tube I found one worse than the one I have! TERRIBLE! And the poster cut the parade of countries in order to make it fast (but of course he let the full United States parade there lol).

I'll look for information on wether the original tapes were remastered by the German News Public Tv.

Oh, BTW , when Brazil enters the Olympiastadt in Munique, the song morphs into a Bossa Nova rythym, not Samba. That's slightly differnt, but it's also carioca! ;) Bossa Nova's originated from Samba, thou. It's considered by me to be more of a sophisticated samba.

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I can't recall white lines in Beijing, Athens, Sydney and Barcelona - I don't remember Atlanta -

during the OC everything is hidden under a cover...

In Atlanta, while the "Greek temple" sequence was going on, we had the canvas covering the track pulled back...while the cover for the field stayed.

Am looking at photos of Athens. The track was covered for Ceremonies.

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I really don't see why 2 stadia cannot be used. U have 2 perfectly good stadia that can accommodate both. One has a bigger seating capacity, so use that for the soccer finals in a soccer-mad country and for Ceremonies as well because it will bring in bigger revenues.

*****************************

Re music and traditions in Marching, wait for my book, SECRETS OF THE OLYMPIC CEREMONIES, which I have finally finished. I have a whole chapter (5 -- Marching in the Nations) devoted to all the traditions, myths , etc., regarding that aspect of OCs. You'd be surprised at some of the facts I uncovered re the music prepared and played for that section.

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In Atlanta, while the "Greek temple" sequence was going on, we had the canvas covering the track pulled back...while the cover for the field stayed.

Am looking at photos of Athens. The track was covered for Ceremonies.

***************************

I really don't see why 2 stadia cannot be used. U have 2 perfectly good stadia that can accommodate both. One has a bigger seating capacity, so use that for the soccer finals in a soccer-mad country and for Ceremonies as well because it will bring in bigger revenues.

*****************************

Re music and traditions in Marching, wait for my book, SECRETS OF THE OLYMPIC CEREMONIES, which I have finally finished. I have a whole chapter (5 -- Marching in the Nations) devoted to all the traditions, myths , etc., regarding that aspect of OCs. You'd be surprised at some of the facts I uncovered re the music prepared and played for that section.

thanks M.,

for checking this up - when will your book published? I have to buy it via amazon - I suppose it won't be able to be bought here in Germany. :(

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thanks M.,

for checking this up - when will your book published? I have to buy it via amazon - I suppose it won't be able to be bought here in Germany. :(

Well, I'm sending it in for a proof, hopefully end of this week. Yes, it will be available on Amazon (or CreateSpace, which is an amazon subsidiary) I hope by December.

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Oh, BTW , when Brazil enters the Olympiastadt in Munique, the song morphs into a Bossa Nova rythym, not Samba. That's slightly differnt, but it's also carioca! ;) Bossa Nova's originated from Samba, thou. It's considered by me to be more of a sophisticated samba.

Heheh. Don't want to start an off topic debate but Samba is rhythm that the black slaves brought with them when they were traded to Bahia state. But it wasn't what its today. It was in Bahia that the "today's samba" was created and exported to Rio

via the Baianos that went to work in Sugar-Canes Platantion in Rio de Janeiro and took part in the yearly festivals there (Carnival).

Also, Vinicius and Tom made it famous but the 'father' of Bossa nova is a Baiano, João Gilberto :P

Yeh, I know Rio was more important for both of rhythm but lets not give wrong info for the gringos!

:lol:

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Very Interesting Insights!

Oh, BTW , when Brazil enters the Olympiastadt in Munique, the song morphs into a Bossa Nova rythym, not Samba. That's slightly differnt, but it's also carioca! ;) Bossa Nova's originated from Samba, thou. It's considered by me to be more of a sophisticated samba.

wow - that is interesting - of course I heard of the Bossa Nova before, but I wasn't aware what rythym it is...

You are right the Opening ceremony is split into 16 part (the first part isn't really necessary - that was just a kind of intro - it starts with part 2)

This was the only "show act" during the OC in Munich

Handover of the traditional Olympic Flag from Mexico to Munich mexican and bavarian folklore during the OC in Munich

lightning of the olympic flame during the the OC in Munich (dove flight - pay attention that one dove lands in the Brazilian team and the athletes took care of the bird)

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Well, I'm sending it in for a proof, hopefully end of this week. Yes, it will be available on Amazon (or CreateSpace, which is an amazon subsidiary) I hope by December.

wow - I will buy that!!!

M,

somebody was astonished that there was just a German speaker (by the way that is Joachim Fuchsberg, a popular German actor) during the OC in München - do you know when it was introduced that the speaker has to be french, english and the local language?

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I'm kinda preoccupied now that Rio won. Hopefully we'll make a great games. Hey cariocas: don't let the politicians/nuzman to turn the games into a private party with public resources just like they did in the PanAm games. Please. You're close to them and with the public with both eyes wide open they'll keep the robbery "small"

PS: Cariocas, stay as critics as your history suggests. Don't embarrass Brazil in front of the world.. Nothing else to said since I was against the games. You won! Congratz. Gonna leave this forum now because the (justified) critics here will get really bad as the time pass and nothing is made because of our fearful bureaucracy.

Boa çorte pra todhos e vammos torsser pahra que thudo dê serto. Eu conffio que çim.

Falows!

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Well, I'm sending it in for a proof, hopefully end of this week. Yes, it will be available on Amazon (or CreateSpace, which is an amazon subsidiary) I hope by December.

Still butthurt, Baron? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Btw, are you gonna talk about fascism in your book?

Hehehe

It was fun to toy with you on this forum. I was laughing really hard when you sent that PM begging me to stop.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

See ya in 2016, baron.

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the so called "fame" of Maracana stadium was in no way a logical or great reason to justify have the Opening Ceremonies there.

IOC disagrees to you...

IAAF also...

I would say 3/5 of the world too... (about Maracana's fame)

If you're american and doesn't know Maracana because soccer is no popular in USA is not a reason to cancel Rio and now IOC plans.

The only people that can do it seems to not bother at all.

BTW, take note that world is changing and people are not worried about what americans thinks or not about many things...

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IOC disagrees to you...

IAAF also...

I would say 3/5 of the world too... (about Maracana's fame)

If you're american and doesn't know Maracana because soccer is no popular in USA is not a reason to cancel Rio and now IOC plans.

The only people that can do it seems to not bother at all.

BTW, take note that world is changing and people are not worried about what americans thinks or not about many things...

How do you know what the IOC members really think? You cling to this security blanket notion that "the IOC gave us the games, therefore, every aspect of our plan is warmly endorsed.". Dude, just because 66 IOC members voted to hold the games in Rio, doesn't nessicarily mean that they all are in love with the two stadium plan. Rio won the games for other reasons, and the flaw of two stadiums was overlooked. YOU WERE CUT SOME SLACK. Slack, I might add, that other wealthy nations would not have been cut. I could give a crap how famous or not famous Macaroni stadium is. My beef is that Athletics and the ceremonies are being held in two different stadiums, breaking Olympic tradition in more ways than one.

It's amazing how immature and insecure Brazil comes across, based on several of the Brazilian posters here.

"We'll do it OUR way".

"I don't like all this criticism"

"Get used to OUR house.'

"It has meaning for US"

Okay, you'd better get this into your little heads: Rio has been given the PRIVILEGE of hosting the Olympic Games FOR THE WORLD. The Olympic Games do NOT belong to Brazil. They belong to the WORLD, and you must take into account long standing Olympic traditions and the criticisms of other countries. You're merely being allowed to be host the party in 2016.

Braz is the only Brazilian poster that comes across sensible and mature.

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I don't necessarily start to get the vapours at the mere mention that Rio may, gasp! use separate stadiums. Whatever works for the host works. Tradition's good, but it can always be tweaked. We're all pretty comfortable now with the WOGs having nightly medal ceremony plazas, right? (even if I hope that idea doesn't come to the summers as well). And some traditions start to get in the way of workability anyway - I'd sure love to tweak the "March of Nations" for each OC into something less than an hour plus of tedium.

The IOC accepted the Rio plan. They may try and talk the ROCOG round if they care enough about it. But Rio can now insist on delivering what they bid with. Time wil tell, we'll see ...

But I AM surprised that no-one in this thread's brought up the fact that Chicago initially also offered a "two stadium" concept for their games bid ... and then exactly where talked out of it by the powers that be.

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yes.

Also, 2 stadia idea was proposed by Chicago early on. USOC sort of shot that idea down when they moved the stadium to Washington Park.

New York 1984 plan also called for athletes march down Broadway.

When they have the Olympics wherever I want it to be--actually in my dream city of Sta. Paquita, Kansas, Ceremonies will be in 5 stadia -- one stadium for each color of the rings!! It will be a TOTAL 5-ring circus!! :lol:

Actually I did Rol. See above. Altho what Chicago was proposing was TWO stadia for TWO ceremonies!! They wanted Soldier's Field for a warm-up where the athletes would sort of wait and get all pumped up before they marched into the NEW stadium. So it was like a REAL Ceremony in the new one; and then like a back-room view for the other. Not really a well-articulated concept.

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But I AM surprised that no-one in this thread's brought up the fact that Chicago initially also offered a "two stadium" concept for their games bid ... and then exactly where talked out of it by the powers that be.

Actually Roitel, that was indeed brought up by Baron, and I then stated that "is it really any surprise the USOC shot that down?"

We're all pretty comfortable now with the WOGs having nightly medal ceremony plazas, right? (even if I hope that idea doesn't come to the summers as well).

On a side note, I hate the nightly mass medal ceremonies of winter games, and I would be fiercely opposed to that insinuating itself into the summer games.

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Actually I did Rol. See above. Altho what Chicago was proposing was TWO stadia for TWO ceremonies!! They wanted Soldier's Field for a warm-up where the athletes would sort of wait and get all pumped up before they marched into the NEW stadium. So it was like a REAL Ceremony in the new one; and then like a back-room view for the other. Not really a well-articulated concept.

Good. We're even now, M!

;)

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The bid book says 60,000. It will be smaller than most Olympic stadiums; 20,000 smaller than London's, 30,000 smaller than Beijing's, and I think, 40,000 smaller than Sydney's (which had massive temporary wings, of course).

Well condsidering 112.524 watched Cathy Freeman win the 400m in Sydney 2000,it is over 52,000 seats smaller than Sydney.

Why I dont expect 100,000 for every Olympic Stadium,80,000 should be compulsory for all Olympic Track and Field.

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