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Madrid 2016 Official: Rio Has Worst Olympics Bid


Anne Marie

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THIS is why i am nit-picking your posts, Oaki.

You are not being technical, rational or fair. You clearly said that Rio has the worst bid, so review your comments before tyring to defend yourself.

RobH was direct, fair and clear, without the need to bash Rio's bid.

Point taken?

I also never bashed Rio's bid. Like i have said before and in this thread actually, Rio's bid is more than capable of hosting the games.

Stating that Rio has huge sentimentality from it's no South American city has hosted card is stating a fact. It's no an attack. Just like some people are speculating that Chicago will receive votes based on the 'Obama effect'.

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Patsy, stop quoting me and misconstruing my words!

I said Madrid has the worst bid TECHNICALLY. I was agreeing with the point that Jose Maria Odriozola made when he criticized Rio's bid.

I have also pointed out explicitly that when I talk about best bid etc I am referring to technical reasoning.

So sweetheart, get your facts straight. Since joining this forum you seem obsessed with quoting me.

Her are my views for your perusal once and for all.

I believe Madrid has the safest bid, technically most accomplished bid and I agree with the views of Jose Maria Odriozola.

Patsy, is it OK for me to disagree with you?

Patsy is right

Odriozola said in overall, everything, Rio is the worst bid and can only win because of sentimental vote, you said Rio is only the technically worst bid...

So... Different things, uh?

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This Madrid supporter is right. Rio's bid is not the strongest, from a purely technical stand point. And if they win, it will be because they used emotion, marketing, and the opportunity to change their city and spread the Olympic movement to their advantage. Now can anyone think of a time when this was done before? Oh yeah...the last three cities to win the Summer Olympics!

If technical alone won, then a computer would have printed out Stockholm 2004, Toronto 2008 and Paris 2012...but Olympic bids are about more than that and the IOC is composed on human beings. Humans make emotional choices.

But if Rio wins this bid, the IOC is saying "we have enough confidence in you to pull this off and we expect that you will use the Olympics to transform your city, elevate Brazil on a global scale, and promote sport and Olympism in South America"...just like they did with China when they offered Beijing the Olympics in 2001.

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Patsy, stop quoting me and misconstruing my words!

I said Madrid has the worst bid TECHNICALLY. I was agreeing with the point that Jose Maria Odriozola made when he criticized Rio's bid.

I have also pointed out explicitly that when I talk about best bid etc I am referring to technical reasoning.

So sweetheart, get your facts straight. Since joining this forum you seem obsessed with quoting me.

Her are my views for your perusal once and for all.

I believe Madrid has the safest bid, technically most accomplished bid and I agree with the views of Jose Maria Odriozola.

Patsy, is it OK for me to disagree with you?

Well, i am sure will be more willing to not disagree with you if you stop calling sweetheart... sweetheart *impish smile*

We disagree on each other, thats clear. So let's stop this here?

Danny has estated valid points, RobH was estated valid points, so as you and me.

No more nit-picking ? i promise to do my best *grin*

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Patsy is right

Odriozola said in overall, everything, Rio is the worst bid and can only win because of sentimental vote, you said Rio is only the technically worst bid...

So... Different things, uh?

Jose Maria Odriozola pointed out that Rio has the riskiest bid. It does - I agree with this. I also agree that Rio will get alot of votes due to it being a new frontier and hence 'sentimentality'.

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Ok, c'mon... Are you serious? You have even an APPROXIMATE idea of how much will Rio's budget overrun if awarded? At least Madrid has very fewer risks that your city regarding to unexpected issues. You don't know exactly what you're talking about.

The overruns could happen in Rio since bureaucracy generally increases costs, I'm not silly to believe otherwise...

Indeed the government made a USD 240 bn fund for the games...

So the games can overrun in USD 226 bn...

Well, I know what I'm talking about, I'm not dreaming the numbers and data and typing it here.

If overrun costs happen in Madrid, how Spanish govt will solve the problem with Europe in the middle of a credit crisis and this same govt giving money to the banks to rescue them??? (This problem doesn't exist in Brazil)

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Exactly, Rio may well win the bid but in an analysis of technical criteria Madrid is superior to Rio and all the bids even.

Madrid bid is great, and I agree in this point with you...

But you know as well that the last bids (2012, 2008, 2004 even 1996) the best technically bid did not won.

And I repeat, I don't see social legacy in Madrid's bid

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Well, i am sure will be more willing to not disagree with you if you stop calling sweetheart... sweetheart *impish smile*

We disagree on each other, thats clear. So let's stop this here?

Danny has estated valid points, RobH was estated valid points, so as you and me.

No more nit-picking ? i promise to do my best *grin*

Fair enough Patsy.

But for future reference I just want to say that I an not anti-Rio but rather just concerned with facts. That is all.

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Madrid bid is great, and I agree in this point with you...

But you know as well that the last bids (2012, 2008, 2004 even 1996) the best technically bid did not won.

And I repeat, I don't see social legacy in Madrid's bid

True.

Very rarely does the best technical bid win.

However, Madrid's legacy is great - the main stadium will become the new home to Athletico Madrid. A new aquatics venue, tennis arena, sports facilities in general will all exist as tangible remains which the public can use. This contrasts markedly with Chicago for example where most of the venues are temporary (athletics stadium, swimming arena, velodrome etc).

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Oaky, I'm happy we've a civilised talking.

No prejudices, no sarcasm, no baronizes...

I repeat my invitation if you want to come to Brazil.

And I hope this GB forum get as civilised as it was today.

No more Guantanamo and drug-dealers in Rio useless discussion..

Need to sleep

See ya guys!

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The overruns could happen in Rio since bureaucracy generally increases costs, I'm not silly to believe otherwise...

Indeed the government made a USD 240 bn fund for the games...

So the games can overrun in USD 226 bn...

Well, I know what I'm talking about, I'm not dreaming the numbers and data and typing it here.

If overrun costs happen in Madrid, how Spanish govt will solve the problem with Europe in the middle of a credit crisis and this same govt giving money to the banks to rescue them??? (This problem doesn't exist in Brazil)

Danny... sorry, but I insist: you don't know exactly what you're talking about. Spain has two of the Top 5 European banks: Santander and BBVA. Both of which have rescued few Florida, Texas banks... and have very different investments in your own country. Although the global crisis has hit Spain strongly indeed, the country is still very safe in cash-flow terms.

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True.

Very rarely does the best technical bid win.

However, Madrid's legacy is great - the main stadium will become the new home to Athletico Madrid. A new aquatics venue, tennis arena, sports facilities in general will all exist as tangible remains which the public can use. This contrasts markedly with Chicago for example where most of the venues are temporary (athletics stadium, swimming arena, velodrome etc).

Let me add that all the Olympic village will turn into social living for the elderly.

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Danny... sorry, but I insist: you don't know exactly what you're talking about. Spain has two of the Top 5 European banks: Santander and BBVA. Both of which have rescued few Florida, Texas banks... and have very different investments in your own country. Although the global crisis has hit Spain strongly indeed, the country is still very safe in cash-flow terms.

Santander is also one of the major banks in Brazil, I have an account with them, and it's the company that I most hate in this world... Filhos da puta!

But, this discussion can be continued tomorrow, really need to sleep!

see ya!

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True.

Very rarely does the best technical bid win.

However, Madrid's legacy is great - the main stadium will become the new home to Athletico Madrid. A new aquatics venue, tennis arena, sports facilities in general will all exist as tangible remains which the public can use. This contrasts markedly with Chicago for example where most of the venues are temporary (athletics stadium, swimming arena, velodrome etc).

You highlighted a good point, I see now Madrid's legacy, but I still don't see as the centerpiece of the bid, you know?

I mean, Rio's strived to insert the concentrated Olympic Training Center in Barra Cluster, in my opinion the jewel of the bid (the legacies here are infinite!)

As Chicago, I did not thought on that way! The temporary venues jeopardise the power of legacy for America. I'm sure there will, but small... (they tried so hard to make the budget economic...)

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Legacy is an interesting point of discussion.

Tokyo aims to have a '100' year legacy plan, to sum 2016 with 1964 leacies. But several venues listed as existent are not built yet, and there are serious problems of available land. But compared to 1964, where the Olympics helped Japan to stabilish as a world economy, the lagacies now are not as relevant, and the legacy is not really clear, at least not for me.

Rio's legacy includes development of key social and infra-structure points of the city, like transport and safety.

Madri's legacy is focused on sport development, by providing facilities and promoting the comunity integration.

Chicago's legacy is exactly the opposit of Madri as for venues, they don't want to leave permanent ones and will focus on sustentable growth of sports, directed to youth.

Did i got it right?

If I did, bias aside, Rio , Madrid & Chicago run far away from Tokyo when it comes to legacy, but Rio's is the most comprehensive one.

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Oaky, I'm happy we've a civilised talking.

No prejudices, no sarcasm, no baronizes...

I repeat my invitation if you want to come to Brazil.

And I hope this GB forum get as civilised as it was today.

No more Guantanamo and drug-dealers in Rio useless discussion..

Need to sleep

See ya guys!

Well Danny, if you pay for the plane tickets I'll come!

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I read this in a blog:

************************************************************

Rio’s Bid Breakes The Rules Of The IOC. See Below The Evidence.

Setembro 30, 2009

The text below is a reproduction of the e-mail sent from the Brazilian Ambassador in Switzerland to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Brasília D.F. It goes like this:

“ Re.: Visit Nuzman Switzerland Nuzman 22/09

I follow the instructions. I personally delivered today, September 22nd, to Mr. Jean-Franco Kasper, suisse member of the IOC, the letter that was addressed to him by His Excellency the President of the Republic, related to the Olympic Games 2016.

Kasper is president of the Sky International Federation (FIS), with its headquarters at Oberhofen am Thunersee, small city in Berna Canton. This week, however, he was dealing with events of his organization at Hilton Hotel at the airport of Zurich, to where I went to deliver the letter. Kasper receuved me with great simpathy at the support office of FIS and informed me that the president of the Brazilian Olympic Committe, Carlos Arthur Nuzman, will visit him tomorrow, at the same place, probably to discuss the Ri0 21016 candidacy.”

This in only one single example of how Rio broke the IOC rules. I have many of the internal messages like this one. Several Members refused to receive the letter personally since they say that the rules of the IOC do not allow this. Other Members received either the Ambassador, or people of the BID. It is clear that the bid members cannot visit the voters. Is Rio being to be punished?

**********************************************************

If true, should then Rio be out of the run also?

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I read this in a blog:

************************************************************

Rio’s Bid Breakes The Rules Of The IOC. See Below The Evidence.

Setembro 30, 2009

The text below is a reproduction of the e-mail sent from the Brazilian Ambassador in Switzerland to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Brasília D.F. It goes like this:

“ Re.: Visit Nuzman Switzerland Nuzman 22/09

I follow the instructions. I personally delivered today, September 22nd, to Mr. Jean-Franco Kasper, suisse member of the IOC, the letter that was addressed to him by His Excellency the President of the Republic, related to the Olympic Games 2016.

Kasper is president of the Sky International Federation (FIS), with its headquarters at Oberhofen am Thunersee, small city in Berna Canton. This week, however, he was dealing with events of his organization at Hilton Hotel at the airport of Zurich, to where I went to deliver the letter. Kasper receuved me with great simpathy at the support office of FIS and informed me that the president of the Brazilian Olympic Committe, Carlos Arthur Nuzman, will visit him tomorrow, at the same place, probably to discuss the Ri0 21016 candidacy.”

This in only one single example of how Rio broke the IOC rules. I have many of the internal messages like this one. Several Members refused to receive the letter personally since they say that the rules of the IOC do not allow this. Other Members received either the Ambassador, or people of the BID. It is clear that the bid members cannot visit the voters. Is Rio being to be punished?

**********************************************************

If true, should then Rio be out of the run also?

"probably" is not a sure thing... We will never know...

About letters, as I know, all bids sent letters to IOC members...

Indeed, the content of Obama's letter to IOC members was posted here days ago... Should USA be banned of the 2016 race? Based on that, should IOC cancel 2016 Olympic Games?

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"probably" is not a sure thing... We will never know...

About letters, as I know, all bids sent letters to IOC members...

Indeed, the content of Obama's letter to IOC members was posted here days ago... Should USA be banned of the 2016 race? Based on that, should IOC cancel 2016 Olympic Games?

This is Obama's letter:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chicago...0,1284749.story

I deeply appreciate the tremendous work of the Olympic Movement and wish to convey my strong support for Chicago 2016.

Around the world, sports play a vital role in filling young people with hope, providing a foundation for respect, and leading nations toward greater friendship and excellence. I have seen the transformative power of the Olympic Games to unite men and women across all boundaries, and I hold the mission of the Olympic Movement in the highest esteem.

That is why I have been committed to Chicago 2016 since the launch of the bid in 2006. The City of Chicago is designed to host global celebrations, and it will deliver a spectacular Olympic experience for one and all. However, it is not the quality of the setting or the experience alone that compels me to recommend Chicago to you. I also believe that Chicago 2016 offers the United States and the International Olympic Committee a unique chance to collaborate on sport development and build a better future for young people everywhere. As President, I see the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games as an extraordinary opportunity for America to renew our bonds of friendship and welcome the world to our shores with open arms. If you honor Chicago with your selection, we will ensure that the Olympic and Paralympic Games are a key priority for our Nation. We have already established a White House Office of Olympic, Paralympic and Youth Sport to serve the Games, and you can count on our government to support Chicago's quest to host an unforgettable event and strengthen the Olympic Movement.

As a member of the International Olympic Committee, the work you do is invaluable to all of us who are committed to building a better world. Thank you for your enduring contributions to youth sport and the Olympic Movement. I believe we have an historic opportunity to do great things together, and I look forward to discussing that opportunity with you, if not in Copenhagen, then soon thereafter if Chicago is your choice.

This doesn't say anything about visiting the IOC members outside of the Copenhagen congress.

Do you guys not realize that a simple Google search more often than not contradicts your accusations?

CHItown '16

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