Raphael K Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 My name is Raphael, 25 uears old and brazilian citizen. Sorry about my "gorilla english", but I´d like to write a few words. I was born in São Paulo, but lived in Rio when from my 14 years old to 16.I still live in Brazil. I must say this:I´m pretty sure we cannot afford it. Summer Olympics are not a priority here, in despite what our government says. We have chronicle problems here. I don´t know what you read in newspapers, but Rio(and Brazil, in general)is in a kind of civil war, between public power and drug dealers.Just like Colombia and Mexico.I don´t feel safe on brazilian streets.I was myself assaulted four times. My sister got kidnapped (it´s a regular crime here). Rio is the Mecca of a phenomenom called "balas-perdidas" (lost bullets). Brazil is getting rich, but we have one of the worst educational systems in the Americas (and worldwide). I would never put my son in a public school here. What about the healthcare?Would you, as a tourist, look for a public hospital here?I don´t think so... I´m pretty sure that the Summer Games budget could be used in a few priorities. But, the worst problem is: corruption! In 2007, Rio hosted the PanAmerican games. Spend a fortune on nothing! They sold the promise that all the facilities would be useful to community. Now, 2009, 80%(or something close) of them are useless.Billions throwned away...Or not! Somebody got really rich!Guess who?? And now, for Rio 2016, they are saying the same old speech. That would be the paradise for corrupt congressmen, contractors,etc. I repeat: We have other priorities. That´s why I´m supporting Chicago. Why?I don´t know why.I don´t really care about Olympics. I´m just concerned about our corrrupt politicians and businessmen. But, we must analize: You have Obama.We have Lula (he has never finished the elementary school and is proud of it) You have McDonalds.We have starving kids sniffing glue under the bridges. You have lake Michigan.We have the polluted Guanabara bay. You have NBC, CBS, Fox. We have Globo TV (watch the british documentary called 'Beyond Citizen Kane') That´s it.I know that a lot of brazilian fellows would love to kill me, but they live in wonderland... Good luck, Chicago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Bienvenidos, Raphael K. Such wisdom and common sense from a 25-year old!! You sure got your priorities in the right place, Raphael K. God bless!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiTown16 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Bienvenidos, Raphael K.Such wisdom and common sense from a 25-year old!! You sure got your priorities in the right place, Raphael K. God bless!! Thank you for your posting, Rafael. I guess it's fair that we have a Brazilian for Chicago 2016 (after Chicagoans for Rio, of course) - but, if you do want to consider supporting Chicago, I'd rather it be because of Chicago 2016's strengths rather than concern for your own city and country. No matter what your personal experiences may be, there are people here who will dispute anything that doesn't reflect the image of perfection they are trying to claim. They'll probably also claim that you're from Sao Paulo or that you're being discriminatory or that you just must not discuss these issues. CHItown '16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael K Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 You´re wright. São Paulo & Rio have a stupid rivalry, like Rome and Milano or LA and NYC. But we pay the same federal taxes. And, I´m really pretty sure that the private investors won´t pay 100% of the budget. And we, the taxpayers, will have to pay for that. We are also hosting FIFA 2014 Soccer World Cup. Could you imagine the size of our problem?It´s just 2 years to 2016. I´ve been in Tokyo, it´s an amazing metropolis, but I know that Chicago has a better project. But I´m still praying to NOT see this IOC games here. Not now, at least!!! Maybe in 20 years?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiTown16 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 You´re wright. São Paulo & Rio have a stupid rivalry, like Rome and Milano or LA and NYC.But we pay the same federal taxes. And, I´m really pretty sure that the private investors won´t pay 100% of the budget. And we, the taxpayers, will have to pay for that. We are also hosting FIFA 2014 Soccer World Cup. Could you imagine the size of our problem?It´s just 2 years to 2016. I´ve been in Tokyo, it´s an amazing metropolis, but I know that Chicago has a better project. But I´m still praying to NOT see this IOC games here. Not now, at least!!! Maybe in 20 years?! Interesting. I'd be interested in a Rio resident's view of the Chicago 2016 and Tokyo 2016 bids (not just as a strong competing and opposing bids but as bids with their own strengths and concerns). Part of my role has been to bring a Chicago resident's values to discussions about the 2016 competition in general (although with a clear stated preference). CHItown '16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCatra Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I'm a brazilian and i'm against rio too but I support tokyo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael K Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Cara, quando vi seu nome, logo pensei: lá vem uma xiliquenta velha pegar no meu pé! Hahahahahah E eu também apoio Cuiabá 2018!!!Só apóio Chicago pq é a que mais tem chances. Tô pouco me fodendo pra essas Olimpíadas.Só quero justiça e corrupto na cadeia. We´re not alone! Go Chicago! Go Obama! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCatra Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Cara, quando vi seu nome, logo pensei: lá vem uma xiliquenta velha pegar no meu pé!Hahahahahah E eu também apoio Cuiabá 2018!!!Só apóio Chicago pq é a que mais tem chances. Tô pouco me fodendo pra essas Olimpíadas.Só quero justiça e corrupto na cadeia. We´re not alone! Go Chicago! Go Obama! Pois é... Se nego fosse crítico em relação aos casos de superfaturamento / corrupção eu até apoiaria... Mas o zé-povin só quer fazer a festa mesmo... Tá nem aí se vai ser roubado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiTown16 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Cara, quando vi seu nome, logo pensei: lá vem uma xiliquenta velha pegar no meu pé!Hahahahahah E eu também apoio Cuiabá 2018!!!Só apóio Chicago pq é a que mais tem chances. Tô pouco me fodendo pra essas Olimpíadas.Só quero justiça e corrupto na cadeia. We´re not alone! Go Chicago! Go Obama! Ummm - alright. So this is actually *No Games Rio*? Getting to the campaign a little late, though - No Games Chicago makes use of many of the same themes for about a year. Not that Chicagoans don't appreciate the endorsement - but the Chicago 2016 bid admittedly won't help Rio to address its corruption and social justice issues. And Lula's recent speeches would motivate many Americans to avoid volunteering in Brazil. CHItown '16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael K Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 You know that my position is: 1-No games in Rio. 2-If other wealth cities want that, good for them. And Chicago seems to be the best for me.I have japanese family, but I´m not supporting Tokyo, as I said.And Chicago is the favorite, of course. But, you´re right.This "Not Games" attitude is not nice. I think you translated my statement in portuguese and you may be horrified, but I was talking about the brazilian bid with the other guy.I use a lot of bad words (not polite, shame...) And yes, I know I´m late. But, better late than never. I would be happy if a brazilian city could host a Summer Olympics in "consistent" way. But it´s not gonna happen in 2016. Here, the Olympic Movement is been used as a "palanque".I´m not the biggest sports fan, but I know about "malandragem". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael K Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 "Not that Chicagoans don't appreciate the endorsement - but the Chicago 2016 bid admittedly won't help Rio to address its corruption and social justice issues. And Lula's recent speeches would motivate many Americans to avoid volunteering in Brazil." You´re absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNIT Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I'm a Brazilian citizen living in Chicago. I don't want the Olympics in Brazil as many others Brazilians who live here. Honestly i believe that Tokyo would be the best choice, but Rio is not ready for that and my reasoning is almost the same as the people from NGC, but with some more ramifications. Corruption is a big Issue in Brazil, our Court of Audit decided (perhaps from our government pressure) not to judge the accounts from the Pan Am 2007 games, as it would be an incredible irony to judge this just before the decision of the host city. We see the government badly spending money with sports in Brazil, just as an example, our Judo Wrestlers are paying from their own pockets to compete, this is just ridiculous for a country trying to bring the Olympics. And we should invest in education if we actually want a real development in Brazil. Some people claim gains from tourism, well, after reading some reports, I'm certain that these claims are over-projections before the events - as are other social economical possible gains. As everything within the "political world" these people just show possible gains and forget the possible risks involved within such projects. Some articles I recommend are: http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/the-o...ent?oid=1196342 http://www.etoa.org/Pdf/Member/etoa_report_olympic.pdf http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa41...0/ai_n15705690/ http://www.economist.com/world/internation...ory_id=14515386 And any other from The Economist I'm in for the No Games Rio 2016 movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I'm a Brazilian citizen living in Chicago. I don't want the Olympics in Brazil as many others Brazilians who live here.Honestly i believe that Tokyo would be the best choice, but Rio is not ready for that and my reasoning is almost the same as the people from NGC, but with some more ramifications. Corruption is a big Issue in Brazil, our Court of Audit decided (perhaps from our government pressure) not to judge the accounts from the Pan Am 2007 games, as it would be an incredible irony to judge this just before the decision of the host city. We see the government badly spending money with sports in Brazil, just as an example, our Judo Wrestlers are paying from their own pockets to compete, this is just ridiculous for a country trying to bring the Olympics. And we should invest in education if we actually want a real development in Brazil. Some people claim gains from tourism, well, after reading some reports, I'm certain that these claims are over-projections before the events - as are other social economical possible gains. As everything within the "political world" these people just show possible gains and forget the possible risks involved within such projects. Some articles I recommend are: http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/the-o...ent?oid=1196342 http://www.etoa.org/Pdf/Member/etoa_report_olympic.pdf http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa41...0/ai_n15705690/ http://www.economist.com/world/internation...ory_id=14515386 And any other from The Economist I'm in for the No Games Rio 2016 movement. Welcome, DNIT. Now what was that you said again??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micheal_warren Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 My name is Raphael, 25 uears old and brazilian citizen.Sorry about my "gorilla english", but I´d like to write a few words. I was born in São Paulo, but lived in Rio when from my 14 years old to 16.I still live in Brazil. I must say this:I´m pretty sure we cannot afford it. Summer Olympics are not a priority here, in despite what our government says. We have chronicle problems here. I don´t know what you read in newspapers, but Rio(and Brazil, in general)is in a kind of civil war, between public power and drug dealers.Just like Colombia and Mexico.I don´t feel safe on brazilian streets.I was myself assaulted four times. My sister got kidnapped (it´s a regular crime here). Rio is the Mecca of a phenomenom called "balas-perdidas" (lost bullets). Brazil is getting rich, but we have one of the worst educational systems in the Americas (and worldwide). I would never put my son in a public school here. What about the healthcare?Would you, as a tourist, look for a public hospital here?I don´t think so... I´m pretty sure that the Summer Games budget could be used in a few priorities. But, the worst problem is: corruption! In 2007, Rio hosted the PanAmerican games. Spend a fortune on nothing! They sold the promise that all the facilities would be useful to community. Now, 2009, 80%(or something close) of them are useless.Billions throwned away...Or not! Somebody got really rich!Guess who?? And now, for Rio 2016, they are saying the same old speech. That would be the paradise for corrupt congressmen, contractors,etc. I repeat: We have other priorities. That´s why I´m supporting Chicago. Why?I don´t know why.I don´t really care about Olympics. I´m just concerned about our corrrupt politicians and businessmen. But, we must analize: You have Obama.We have Lula (he has never finished the elementary school and is proud of it) You have McDonalds.We have starving kids sniffing glue under the bridges. You have lake Michigan.We have the polluted Guanabara bay. You have NBC, CBS, Fox. We have Globo TV (watch the british documentary called 'Beyond Citizen Kane') That´s it.I know that a lot of brazilian fellows would love to kill me, but they live in wonderland... Good luck, Chicago! Thank you for posting. It is interesting to hear your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Raphael and the rest of the NoRio16, was there any public discourse of the Olympics in Brazil where the Committee or the government discussed such plans and addressed valid concerns from Rio residents and the rest of the taxpayers? I don't think the forums here gave us an inner perspective on the other side of the camp who may have not joined the Olympic-euphoria-bandwagon. I know here in Chicago, the most vocal people opposing the games are the same people who will most likely not benefit from the investments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNIT Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Raphael and the rest of the NoRio16, was there any public discourse of the Olympics in Brazil where the Committee or the government discussed such plans and addressed valid concerns from Rio residents and the rest of the taxpayers? I don't think the forums here gave us an inner perspective on the other side of the camp who may have not joined the Olympic-euphoria-bandwagon. I know here in Chicago, the most vocal people opposing the games are the same people who will most likely not benefit from the investments. No way, they don't talk about this at all. Actually, the say that tourism will increase even in distant parts such as the northeast states. Rio de Janeiro doesn't have the same "privilege" as Barcelona of being one hour away from several major cities. Also I believe that if the criminality levels don't go down, tourists will be scared away (even though usually media means distort a little bit reality). They are just like sellers, they show the supposedly good stuff with the games, and forget to mention the risks. After R$4billion, the are saying: "we made mistakes but we learned", alright, but who is going to pay the taxpayers back this R$4bi? Should the Olympic games actually be seen R$4bi more expensive? Differently form Illinois, should be Rio de Janeiro the host city, all Brazilian tax payers will be on the hook, which in the one hand dilute the tax effect, but on the other hand will investments that should go to other regions - north, northeast and central - will be focused in just one city. I don't see any problem on developing Rio de Janeiro, but I see a problem of developing it in expense of other places. Some people - read politics - say that this will not divert investments from other cities and regions, but the past experiences are enough not to trust this people. Brazil is still building its foundations, it's not time to buy luxury articles, not yet. Another issue, is that apart from the USA, most of the money that goes to the games is public money, hence the incentives for a good use of it are not strong. Private institutions want to make profitable projects, if you think about Beijing and Athens for instance, and compare it with Atlanta you will understand what I'm talking about. For the Fifa World Cup we started pretty bad, choosing venues that are not big "soccer centers" such as Cuiaba and Manaus, and if we build stadiums there, after the Cup the attendance will be mediocre and for second division games, just like it happened in Portugal for the EURO 2004. Well, for the Pan Am 2007 games R$400 millions were spent at the "Engenhao" stadium, which cost R$2millions per year (this number may be wrong but it is in this magnitude) and the stadium is rented to Botafogo for R$50k per month, that's good management of taxpayers money, that said Botafogo is in the verge of going to the second division, this way a R$400 millions stadium may be used in a secondary division next year. I won't even explore doping cases in our track and field athletes, the way our swimmers are treated in Brazil. Really, this is just a nightmare.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Well, Brazil is democracy, people are free to be against Olympics in Rio de Janeiro for any reason. As you are free to think what you want, I'm free to think you are non-patriotic people that think Brazil can never do nothing because we will be 3rd world forever... (Complexo de vira-lata) Many reasons you points are flawed. Just because we have bad politicians (all the world have) you are against. Because we have crime issues shall we close Brazil to the tourists? I understand some of your concerns, and believe me, I agree with some of them (mainly about public people managing money - it always scared me) But, I really think putting in the balance the positive and negative things. Have the olympics in Brazil is still worthing. And since this is democracy, why not respect the majority who wants the games in Brazil??? Why not be in favour, and then, after winning be critic to the expends? (This is fair and we need this criticism from you guys) PS: Don't be mandatory to answer me since I don't like to visit other bids' threads. And I will not come back to continue this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Mata Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 No matter what your personal experiences may be, there are people here who will dispute anything that doesn't reflect the image of perfection they are trying to claim. They'll probably also claim that you're from Sao Paulo or that you're being discriminatory or that you just must not discuss these issues. How welcoming they are when someone speaks against Rio 2016... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 And since this is democracy, why not respect the majority who wants the games in Brazil???Why not be in favour, and then, after winning be critic to the expends? (This is fair and we need this criticism from you guys) In a democracy all citizens can (and should) respectfully criticize the majority, otherwise it wouldn't be improvements in the society... Another issue is that I don't believe this majority were properly informed about ALL aspects of the bid by our representants and our media. Perhaps this majority doesn't really know what they are supporting... This is a crhonicle issue in Brazil (and many other countries), specially in politics... I'm sorry, but there's no way to be in favour of something I don't believe... For me, to do otherwise would be the real "complexo de vira-lata"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 How welcoming they are when someone speaks against Rio 2016... I also find it a bit strange... Perhaps you would do the same in their place... Perhaps not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Perhaps this majority doesn't really know what they are supporting... This is a crhonicle issue in Brazil (and many other countries), specially in politics...I'm sorry, but there's no way to be in favour of something I don't believe... For me, to do otherwise would be the real "complexo de vira-lata"... Feheva, you (and Catra) are good guys to talk, but I don't like to discuss Rio in a Chicago thread. Based on what I quoted you, we should cancel the Olympic Games then... Majority of people on the countries' bids are not full informed about everything in their bids.. So, no olympics for nobody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNIT Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 As an economics student here in Chicago I don't like the term 3rd world, i prefer developing countries I do respect democracy, and I will respect the majority opinions, I just think that there is no education enough in Brazil to people really have a sound opinion about the facts. I believe that there are potential gains with the games; nevertheless, the risks are big enough that the likelihood of these gains to happen are very slight. I never said we should close our borders to tourists, what I tried to say is that for us to increase tourism we need to improve some basic things such as the criminality rates, more people speaking English and Spanish, infrastructure, all of these regardless of Olympics. I recommend that people read the Olympic Report of the ETOA, it's is intriguing what happens with tourism in such events. I should be talking about this in the Rio's thread anyways, sorry about my fault, as you can see I'm new here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiTown16 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 How welcoming they are when someone speaks against Rio 2016... It was just a recap of the reality that anyone who has an opposing view on Rio 2016 has encountered. I balanced the encouragement to speak his mind with the reality of the 2016 campaign: Not that Chicagoans don't appreciate the endorsement - but the Chicago 2016 bid admittedly won't help Rio to address its corruption and social justice issues. And Lula's recent speeches would motivate many Americans to avoid volunteering in Brazil. Win or lose, the Chicago 2016 bid is unlikely to have any direct effect on Rio's local concerns. And, just like Chicago's local concerns, those concerns will still exist regardless of Friday's results. They may exist in a different context and with different pressures but they wouldn't disappear. CHItown '16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfla Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 So não entendo a coerencia de quem é contra os jogos no Rio pq temos outras prioridades. Serão 29 bilhões de reais investidos sendo somente 15% em ginásios e arenas, o resto é tudo em infra-estrutura, saude, segurança, transporte, portos e aeroportos e não são essas as mesmas prioridades? Ou seja o motivo pra ser contra ou é ignorancia acerca do assunto ou é bairrismo mesmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpman Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 As an economics student here in Chicago I don't like the term 3rd world, i prefer developing countries Yes indeed. Actually the term "3rd world" is dated. Brazil is in the group of developing countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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