Obama Should Fight For Rio - Chicago Tribune

[baron-pierreIV]

Now compare that to Brazil which is the same size as the continental USA. What did we have?

Moreover, If the US excel in sports perhaps it is because you have more opportunities. We've reached a point, the Olympic Spirit: "Make it UNIVERSAL and accessible to everyone".

CaRIOca, you're in Florida, as your little tag says -- so your objection is NOT valid.

Well, Brazil's already hosted a PanAms, several world championships, TWO world Cups...what are you complaining about?

Brazil just needs a little time to get there...and it's NOT like other cities/countries HAVE TO STOP BIDDING all of a sudden because Brazil or any NEW frontier place are suddenly bidding.

Remember, Rio techically was ranked BELOW Doha which was ruled out because of the climate. Rio was just thrown in there so that there would be FOUR possible candidates.

[baron-pierreIV]

Danny, the hesitation of "too much, too soon" has already been expressed in the Evaluation Report. We're just going around in circles. You guys don't think so but the IOC, which is entitled to their opinion (rightly or wrongly) have reservations.

The IOC and its marketing consultants are NOT entirely inexperienced in these matters.

OK, looking back at 1994 - 96. I don't have the figures on how much WC 1994 cost (but my guess is that it probably cost est $175 million, if at all). Atlanta, 2 years later, cost like $1.25 billion.

Brazil's scenario: 2014--what's the latest figure? $11 billion? And what will Rio 2016 cost? $4-6 billion? (Correct my figures if they are wrong.) Add another $1.5 billion for inflation, delays, etc.

Compare the 2 sets of figures--which clearly shows why the examples of the PAST ARE NOT COMPARABLE to what Brazil will be facing! About $1.4 billion for the two events in the US in 1994-96; and at least $17 billion for 2014-2016 for Brazil. That's more than TEN TIMES the cost for the same 2 events.

And I think the IOC does not want to be party--if that's what they are saying-- to such extravagant, narrow-issued spending -- WHEN THERE ARE OTher equally viable candidates in other parts of the world that will spread out the cost and will NOT BE BORNE SOLELY by one country? Do you NOT see that?

Addendum to this: AND the Olympics are coming AFTER the bigger, much more expensive World Cup. The IOC is understandably afraid that they will be merely picking up the left-overs. What if the resources (both private and gov't) are depleted by 2015? That totally jeopardizes their party. ANd it's good to know that the Brazilian economy is going great guns at the present time and probably for the next few years. But who can really say after 6 or 7 years? EVERYTHING in LIFE MOVES IN CYCLES -- even the so-called vaunted economy of the US has had its highs and lows (the last one very dangerously low) -- lucky there is no major international mega-event happening at the present time that will be a source of embarrassment.

What if a major disaster, or a devastating pandemic hit Brazil (or South America) in the next 5 or 6 years leading up to 2014 and 2016?? The Olympics, if awarded to Rio, and being the latter event, will certainly be at risk in a country that has just staged the BIGGEST World Cup yet...and then taken on another mega-project.

So you...and the other more analytical Rio supporters here...can understand the IOC's fears and reservations about doing a 1-2 punch with Brazil/Rio in this round. I mean the organization is over 100 years old; and it has often learned the hard way.

[aluz]

Addendum to this: AND the Olympics are coming AFTER the bigger, much more expensive World Cup. The IOC is understandably afraid that they will be merely picking up the left-overs. What if the resources (both private and gov't) are depleted by 2015? That totally jeopardizes their party. ANd it's good to know that the Brazilian economy is going great guns at the present time and probably for the next few years. But who can really say after 6 or 7 years? EVERYTHING in LIFE MOVES IN CYCLES -- even the so-called vaunted economy of the US has had its highs and lows (the last one very dangerously low) -- lucky there is no major international mega-event happening at the present time that will be a source of embarrassment.

What if a major disaster, or a devastating pandemic hit Brazil (or South America) in the next 5 or 6 years leading up to 2014 and 2016?? The Olympics, if awarded to Rio, and being the latter event, will certainly be at risk in a country that has just staged the BIGGEST World Cup yet...and then taken on another mega-project.

So you...and the other more analytical Rio supporters here...can understand the IOC's fears and reservations about doing a 1-2 punch with Brazil/Rio in this round. I mean the organization is over 100 years old; and it has often learned the hard way.

Baron,

This numbers you are showing are false. The official budget figures for the WC are US$ 400 million (sourced by FIFA) for the OC and 1.2 billion from local governments and private companies for stadia construction and renovation.

The remaining capital investments in infrastructure are still to be defined. The Federal Government asked the host cities to provide a list of prioritary projetcs to be implemented before the WC. Then those projects are going to be selected and SOME, NOT ALL, are going to be implemented. However, the budget figure you got is for the implementation of all projects.

Besides, the Rio 2016 BCOG did include all investments for the WC in their budget, so there is an overlap on both figures.

Finally, as usually said, the EC has not mentioned those capital investments for the WC as a negative aspect, but a positive one. Please, stop insisting on it. If you want to make a point on 2014 WC vs Rio 2016, go look for something on the Marketing side.

[baron-pierreIV]

/\ OK, so I may off on some figures...but $400 million for World Cup when there will be what? 5 or 6 brand new stadia? C'mon, even I wasn't born yesterday. You and I know very well...it's happened in Athens, is happening in London, Beijing had to cut back on a lot of steel, etc., $400 million (in 2009 values) for a World Cup is a WILDLY FALSE figure!

(Chicago's temporary Oly stadium is projected at $385 million; London's is around $540 million; nobody knows Birds Nest final figures but it was going to cost over $1 billion if they hadn't scaled back on the steel; so if they saved $200 million alone, then maybe Birds Nest final cost would probably be over $800 million. What did the new Wembley cost? nearly $1 billion. I hear the new Dallas Comboys A/C stadium cost around $1.2 billion. And the WC 2014 is only projected at $400 million?? I think some Brazilians ought to wake up.)

Beijing, hosting only one Olympics, cost around $40 billion AND THAT'S COUNTING EVERYTHING inclduing the new subway lines in Beijing, etc., and what the communist gov't of China HAS NOT denied, hidden, or stashed away or pocketed.

And you're adding a bullet train between Sao Paulo AND Rio? C'mon that alone, if done properly will cost at least $16 billion!! Not unless wages aren't going to be paid!! (Not even China tried a Beijing - Shanghai bullet-train link!! Calif is still in the early stages of a SFO - LA - San Diego link study. But they KNOW that is going to be super-expensive!! And what? Brazil wants to get its Sao Paulo-Rio link up and running by at least May 2014...so in less than 5 years? THAT IS GOING TO BE COSTLY!!)

That 2014 WC of yours, just say for the new stadia alone and other directly-related support facilities, EVEN WITHOUT Roads, the bullet train, other capital improvements, etc., will cost at least $3 billion when all is said and done.

[aluz]

/\ OK, so I may off on some figures...but $400 million for World Cup when there will be what? 5 or 6 brand new stadia? C'mon, even I wasn't born yesterday. You and I know very well...it's happened in Athens, is happening in London, Beijing had to cut back on a lot of steel, etc., $400 million (in 2009 values) for a World Cup is a WILDLY FALSE figure!

(Chicago's temporary Oly stadium is projected at $385 million; London's is around $540 million; nobody knows Birds Nest final figures but it was going to cost over $1 billion if they hadn't scaled back on the steel; so if they saved $200 million alone, then maybe Birds Nest final cost would probably be over $800 million. What did the new Wembley cost? nearly $1 billion. I hear the new Dallas Comboys A/C stadium cost around $1.2 billion. And the WC 2014 is only projected at $400 million?? I think some Brazilians ought to wake up.)

Beijing, hosting only one Olympics, cost around $40 billion AND THAT'S COUNTING EVERYTHING inclduing the new subway lines in Beijing, etc., and what the communist gov't of China HAS NOT denied, hidden, or stashed away or pocketed.

And you're adding a bullet train between Sao Paulo AND Rio? C'mon that alone, if done properly will cost at least $16 billion!! Not unless wages aren't going to be paid!! (Not even China tried a Beijing - Shanghai bullet-train link!! Calif is still in the early stages of a SFO - LA - San Diego link study. But they KNOW that is going to be super-expensive!! And what? Brazil wants to get its Sao Paulo-Rio link up and running by at least May 2014...so in less than 5 years? THAT IS GOING TO BE COSTLY!!)

That 2014 WC of yours, just say for the new stadia alone and other directly-related support facilities, EVEN WITHOUT Roads, the bullet train, other capital improvements, etc., will cost at least $3 billion when all is said and done.

As I said before, the bullet train is not required for the WC. By the way, this is a white elephant and probably will not be completed on-time for 2014 WC. The government said that it expects it to be ready for the event, but did not make any commitments, because they know it is not required or even the most important investment.

The main transport investments will be the renovation and upgrade of airports due to the distance between the cities (see statements from Ricardo Teixeira). Rio-SP link by airplane is the most profitable route in the Brazilian market. With the expansion of the airports, new flights will be readily offered by the current airlines.

A commission of engineers is examining the cities plans and will determine the actual investments required on infrastructure for the WC. Around a year ago, the same was done for the stadia. That will determine the infrastructure budget for the WC. The current investment plan is a laundry list of wishes. Rio has one of the smallest investments requirements and most of them are already under way. So is SP, where the main subway link has been in construction even before the WC was awarded to Brazil. The main "crazy" requirements came from smaller cities such as Manaus and Fortaleza.

According to the plan 4 stadia will be built and 8 renovated. Brazil is a big football country and its major cities have high capacity stadia that will be renewed for the event. Of the 5 largest stadia (60.000+) only the one from Brasilia will be built (another white elephant). As a comparison for the cost of stadia, Engenhao cost R$380 million, something around US$200 million and it is the stadium which is closest to complying with FIFA's requirements.