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Planning For Olympics Legacy (article In The Chicago Tribune)


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This is from an editorial from today's Chicago Tribune. It is focused on Chicago but could apply to the other three cities as well:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion...0,4341782.story

The $4.8 billion dollar question is: Will the 2016 Summer Olympic Games be good for Chicago?

The Olympics have the potential to effect great change for the host city, positive and negative. While I think the Olympics would be good for Chicago, there is a cautionary tale in the 1992 Barcelona Games and the 2004 Athens Games that we should not ignore.

In Barcelona, the Olympic Village transformed a former industrial area into an oceanfront gathering place for city residents along with much-needed affordable housing. Building on improved infrastructure, the city's visionary government has continued to spur development in this area by creating a reurbanization project that aims to construct a physical hub for global knowledge industries such as media, design and information technology.

By contrast, Athens' citizens, except for new tourist-friendly pedways and some public transit improvements, got little benefit from the 2004 Olympics. After massive cost overruns, all but two of the sporting venues built for the Games sit empty, tagged with graffiti and draining the country's resources for expensive upkeep.

What explains the tale of these two Mediterranean cities? Two key differences are vision and management. An important issue of the planning committee in Barcelona addressed what would happen to the city after the Games. Also, the seaport city was fortunate to be served by a government and business leaders who excelled at management. Barcelona's elite recognized that this was a chance to remake the sleepy seaport with high unemployment and limited opportunities for young professionals into an urban center with the infrastructure and incentives geared to be part of the Information Age.

The implications for Chicago are clear, even though the return on investment from hosting the Olympics is not a given. While I am familiar with studies showing the multiplier effect for the local economy over long periods, I believe that the relevant questions concern management and leadership -- broadly defined as:

--Will the investments be thoughtful and create lasting value? For example, will the public transportation system be upgraded to handle Olympic-sized crowds, despite the lack of such provision in Chicago's bid book? Will the investments in stadiums and venues be flexible and useful so that we avoid Athens' disappointing outcome?

-- Beyond the tangible returns, will Chicago's leaders leverage the Olympic spirit to effect change, such as improving the quality of education in Chicago Public Schools?

-- Will the 2016 Olympics be accomplished with open competition and full transparency in hiring and contracting?

-- And how will the Olympics continue the globalization of Chicago, one of just a few U.S. cities recognized as truly global as measured by the Global Cities Index?

Two factors will decide if the Olympics creates lasting value for the city or proves to be a millstone: long-term vision and excellent management. The vision outlined by Chicago's bid committee takes into account many factors that are necessary to create a lasting legacy without the burdens of useless buildings.

It has focused on learning from prior successful Olympic cities and has done more to engage Chicago's citizens than any other bidding city.

Mayor Richard M. Daley has a talent for choosing excellent managers and giving them the authority to do their jobs well. Daley is also correct that the Olympics would provide an economic boost to this city at a time when our larger global economy is unlikely to do so.

Whether Chicago can realize the long-term potential of the Olympics depends upon the continued engagement of a broad group of citizens and business and government leaders.

Without a determined effort, the opportunities presented by the Games can easily slip past, casting doubt on Chicago's ability to command a long-term place on the global stage. Chicago is a city that seizes great ideas and expands them through hard work and innovation. I have no doubt that the 2016 Games will prove a true test of our mettle and result in lasting value for generations to come.

For Chicago, long-term planning, analysis, legacy, community outreach, access, and careful management are part of our way of life and, in different amounts, affect almost every medium to large project in the city. A weekend music festival funds capital improvements and operations throughout the Chicago Park District; our non-profit organizations submit project proposals with multi-year forecasts, strategic plans, and detailed budgets; discussion about road projects can fill a room with hundreds of citizens.

We've already seen how a legacy of underused sports venues, displaced homes, and enormous debts look - and the Chicago 2016 planners have laid out a plan to avoid the potential long term legacy costs of hosting. However, at the same time, rival cities' supporters seem just as determined to attach us to those costs as though they were necessary component of any Olympic Games project (apparently because they've already committed to those costs).

My hope is that the perception of only one best way to host (characterized by large numbers of permanent stadiums; a single, large cleared site or several very widely separated sites; difficult transportation routes) isn't widespread. Chicago 2016 is taking a different approach to the same goal. I just hope that the benefits of this approach are appreciated.

CHItown '16

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I see a relationship between Barcelona 92 and Rio 2016. If Rio wins, after the games the legacy of transforming of the city include a big reform of the port area of the city.

The proposal to transform one of the venues for the Games in the olympic park Rio 2016 in a "National Olympic Training Center" is another great legacy. I think Rio 2016 can be compared to Barcelona 92.

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Here's the thing about the tales of Athens and Barcelona: Barcelona was a decaying city, neglected by Madrid, but woke up to a wonderful renewal experience with the Olympics. Athens, on the other hand, didn't really need to host the Olympics of the size they are today. Greece is a little too small for the 21st century Olympics, and it was a very expensive experience for Greece for the sake of 'sentiment and tradition.' And Athens was chugging along very nicely to becoming a 21st century metropolis without the millstones of a few extra stadia that a small country of 11 million really cannot fill.

Greece should be content with the lighting ceremonies at Olympia every 2 years and marching in their non-medal winning athletes (i.e., also getting to stand the longest at a summer OC) at the head of the Atheltes' Parade. Did Athens 2004 improve their medal standings for Beijing? Nope.

Chicago could probably use a little of the 'renewal' experience for a small cost; Rio could use a lot but at a very high price tag for them as well.

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Interestingly, I think Chicago and Madrid's ideas are closer to some aspects of Barcelona's acheivements. For those cities it's about having a shot in the spotlight above likes of New York and LA for the former, and London and Paris for the latter. Cities which have a lot to offer and could really benifit from the shot in the arm an Olympics gives.

Rio, for all its risks, doesn't have this problem to the same extent. It is the powerhouse of its continent (or sub-continent, depending on how you define S America). Its project, in many ways, is similar to London's. A large, relativlely risky venture with physcial regeneration at its heart, but within a city which is already arguably the most famous on its continent.

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No doubt. In this race, Rio is the "Barcelona". The legacy that Rio offers is similar to Barcelona 92. The reforms in Rio will as an example in history of games.

Oh, please, Caue, you're the only making that statement. :rolleyes: I don't really see where you draw that comparison validly other than both have Latin cultures. As a matter of fact, I would say that Rio and LA are more alike with each other, given their near-tropical climates and beach cultures...whereas Barcelona is NOT really a sea-anchored metropolis. It's if you go farther south do you find the beach communities...but they despise the hustle and bustle found in throbbing Barcelona.

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Oh, please, Caue, you're the only making that statement. :rolleyes: I don't really see where you draw that comparison validly other than both have Latin cultures. As a matter of fact, I would say that Rio and LA are more alike with each other, given their near-tropical climates and beach cultures...whereas Barcelona is NOT really a sea-anchored metropolis. It's if you go farther south do you find the beach communities...but they despise the hustle and bustle found in throbbing Barcelona.

I'm talking about "legacy", not of geographical and cultural similarities.

Sorry my friend.

I love you.

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Rio's plan seems to be aiming at legacy more than its competitors.

- The transport infrastructure will boost the city development.

- The renovation of the port and the showcase of the city to the world tend to boost tourism. Currently, Rio receives less tourists than many South African destinations.

- The new Olympic Training Center in the Olympic Park will commit Brazil to develop high performance athletes in order to become an Olympic power.

- The new recreational area in Deodoro will provide the inhabitants of that zone with new entertainment opportunites with the construction of the X-Park.

Legacy seems like one of the real strengths of the Rio bid.

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No doubt. In this race, Rio is the "Barcelona". The legacy that Rio offers is similar to Barcelona 92. The reforms in Rio will as an example in history of games.

For me, it is completely the opposite. Actualy, as a brazilian, what makes me be against this bid is that the legacy left will be closer to Athens than Barcelona.

For example, the olympic village was designed to be just another high-class resindential complex like many others in the Barra region. There will be no social legacy for the people who really needs it, apart for some temporary jobs at civil construction.

Why not build this village in a way the Federal Government could finance these houses over dacades and move some people from the favelas to a nice brand new neighbourhood?

Also, according to the bid, the port area will be a "hospitality center for the National Olympic Committees and sponsors". What will happen after the games? Is it planned?

In Barcelona, they already knew what would happen with the port area after the games. I don't see it at the Rio's bid... We could spend millions in the renovation of this area, but it could become a degradated place again in 10 year time... We need permanent solutions...

The "National Olympic Training Center" sounds beautiful, but where will the resources come from to maintain such gigantic structure and service after the games? The government has no funds to train our athletes right now! Usually they have to rely on clubs and sponsorships. I could be wrong (and I hope I am), but I can see the governament saying after the games they don't have the funds to maintain this centre and they will need to rent it to the private sector for bananas, just as happaned with the JH stadium.

The same aplies to the huge broadcast centre and others...

I agree, though, Rio has the best potential to have the greatest social legacy amongst the candidates, but the way the plans were made, I don't believe it will... Still in time to make ajustments! We only need to be critical and participate in the NOC and government decisions.

I really hope I'll have to bite my tong in 8 years time! :P

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Cape Town heads for Barcelona to boost economic ties

MEDIA RELEASE

NO. 351/ 2009

09 JUNE 2009

The City of Cape Town will lead a delegation of local business leaders to attend the World Innovation Summit in Spain from 15-19 June and develop economic ties with the City of Barcelona.

Mansoor Mohamed, the City’s Executive Director: Economic, Social Development and Tourism, who will lead the delegation on behalf of the City of Cape Town, said: “The delegation aims to engage in bilateral economic talks with the Barcelona City Council and negotiate a deal to set-up an entrepreneurship ecosystem in Cape Town on similar principles to those employed so successfully by the City of Barcelona.”

“With proper planning and foresight, the City of Barcelona was able to accelerate its own development by using the Olympic Games of 1992 to enhance its global positioning. The benefits of the games are still being felt today and it has been widely accepted that the City of Barcelona, through the Olympic Games, achieved ‘100 years of development within ten years’. Entrepreneurship is a significant enabler of economic growth and job creation and the City of Barcelona has demonstrated proven ability in this area. We are looking forward to making progress on entrepreneurship. Urban regeneration, direct economic and higher education linkages and municipal markets are also on the agenda,” says Mohamed.

The delegation will include representatives from the Cape Town Partnership, Accelerate Cape Town and the Cape Higher Education Consortium.

“The City of Cape Town is facing similar challenges to the ones faced by the City of Barcelona just prior to the 1992 Olympics. These challenges included the decline of their manufacturing sector, high unemployment and being reduced to ‘second city’ status after Madrid,” says Alderman Felicity Purchase, Mayoral Committee Member for Economic Development and Tourism.

According to Andrew Boraine, CEO of the Cape Town Partnership, the City of Barcelona has recently implemented a regeneration strategy that has useful lessons for Cape Town. “Barcelona has been successful in redeveloping an obsolete inner-city industrial area into an innovative district offering modern spaces for knowledge-based activities.”

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Cape Town team concludes China visit with site inspection of Beijing's Olympic infrastructure

The City of Cape Town’s delegation to China, headed by Executive Mayor Alderman Dan Plato, is hard at work cementing bilateral, mutually beneficial ties between the two countries.

The delegation, which comprises City politicians and officials, is in China to attend the World Economic Forum’s ‘Meeting of New Champions’ session.

At the meeting, the Executive Mayor spoke about ‘The promise of smart energy’ and reiterated the importance of investing in the ‘green’ economy.

Interviewed by the Global Times newspaper after the meeting, Alderman Plato said the potential for co-operation with Chinese cities on renewable energy was substantial, given Cape Town’s experience with ‘green’ development.

Global Times reporter, Guo Lu, wrote: “A metropolis with great natural beauty and a rich culture, Cape Town was ranked one of the top green cities in the world last year, according to the Ethisphere Institute, a New York-based business ethics and social responsibility think tank.”

The Cape Town delegation will be on the lookout for other examples of environmentally-friendly investment projects in China, and ways to encourage Chinese tourism to South Africa before it returns next week. China’s large population makes tourism an obvious choice for joint ventures and co-operation between the two countries – especially if issuing visas becomes easier, said Alderman Plato.

“Doing business with China requires patience because our cultures are so different. We need to try to understand each other and continue working together”, Plato said. Trade between China and South Africa still faces challenges with trade volume having declined by 23 percent to $5.6 billion in 2008.

According to Alderman Plato, South Africa offers a number of policies to encourage investment from overseas. The China-Africa Development Fund, for example, is the first government-supported fund set up to encourage Sino-African trade.

The Mayor added, however, that the fund is not well-known and not enough people utilize it. "But it could help business people conducting business between China and South Africa get financing," he said.

The delegation has used the meeting as an opportunity to showcase Cape Town as a world class tourism and business destination. The city is to host World Economic Forum meetings for the next five years - an arrangement that is expected to have positive spin offs for the local tourism industry.

In Huangshan, which the delegation visited to investigate areas of mutual interest, the Mayor signed a friendship agreement with the City of Huangshan that will facilitate closer economic ties between the two cities.

Mansoor Mohamed, the Executive Director for Economic, Social Development and Tourism, said: "The signing of this pact has made it easier for the City of Cape Town to facilitate business relationships for South African companies in China. This agreement will enhance Cape Town’s role as an access point for Chinese companies wanting to do business in Africa. A number of opportunities for co-operation have already been identified, such as synergies in tourism development and bilateral trade."

The delegation will conclude its visit to China with a site inspection of Bejing’s Olympic infrastructure in preparation for Cape Town’s upcoming 2010 FIFA World Cup.

Martin Pollack

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For example, the olympic village was designed to be just another high-class resindential complex like many others in the Barra region. There will be no social legacy for the people who really needs it, apart for some temporary jobs at civil construction.

Why not build this village in a way the Federal Government could finance these houses over dacades and move some people from the favelas to a nice brand new neighbourhood?

This has to do with the economics of the bid. By building a upper-middle-class condominium in an area where there is strong demand for that kind of project, private developers will fund the construction with the right to sell the apartment after the Games. Unlike the PanAm Village this one is better located for a residential compound, selling it should be easy. I could spot many new developments in the surrounding area a week ago.

Also, according to the bid, the port area will be a "hospitality center for the National Olympic Committees and sponsors". What will happen after the games? Is it planned?

In Barcelona, they already knew what would happen with the port area after the games. I don't see it at the Rio's bid... We could spend millions in the renovation of this area, but it could become a degradated place again in 10 year time... We need permanent solutions...

Actually the idea is to implement exactly what was done to Barcelona. The area, which includes even Avenida Rio Branco will become closed to cars and a big open space spreading across Rio downtown. Transport will be done by eletric trams like in Oporto, Nice and other European cities reducing traffic, polution and creating a new attraction for tourists. Rio old town is not very well marketed as a tourist attraction.

The "National Olympic Training Center" sounds beautiful, but where will the resources come from to maintain such gigantic structure and service after the games? The government has no funds to train our athletes right now! Usually they have to rely on clubs and sponsorships. I could be wrong (and I hope I am), but I can see the governament saying after the games they don't have the funds to maintain this centre and they will need to rent it to the private sector for bananas, just as happaned with the JH stadium.

The same aplies to the huge broadcast centre and others...

Actually the idea is to have a training center where the Brazilian Teams for several Olympic sports would train for international events. Currently, the federations have to rent facilities to hold training camps for big events such as World Championships. So the idea is to provide a place for this camps to be held. It would also be used for permanent team trainings such as the one built in Curitba for Gymnastics.

Apart from that, National Championships could be held in the facilities to be built there and clinics for young athletes as well.

The IBC and others after the Games will be empty buildings. I would bet that the IOC will give them for the federations to build their HQs. CBDA (Swimming) and CBA (Athletics) HQs are in the Maracana compound and could easily be moved to this new area. The Brazilian OC HQ is also in Barra, but in a different area. If that's not the case, they can sell it for office buildings or stores, for which the area will have enough demand. The result would be a huge financial return for the OGOC.

I agree, though, Rio has the best potential to have the greatest social legacy amongst the candidates, but the way the plans were made, I don't believe it will... Still in time to make ajustments! We only need to be critical and participate in the NOC and government decisions.

I really hope I'll have to bite my tong in 8 years time! :P

Well, you forget that the transport infrastructure is actually the core of the social legacy. According to several studies, Rio inequality is boosted by the lack of communication between huge parts of the city. Not to mention the subway extensions, the new highway that will link Barra to Deodoro will take potential employees to the most fast developing part of the city. Such a link would relieve the pressure for the expansion of favelas in Jacarepagua and Recreio, since one can get decent housing for a reasonable price in the Deodoro area.

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For example, the olympic village was designed to be just another high-class resindential complex like many others in the Barra region. There will be no social legacy for the people who really needs it, apart for some temporary jobs at civil construction.

Why not build this village in a way the Federal Government could finance these houses over dacades and move some people from the favelas to a nice brand new neighbourhood?

Actually the idea is to implement exactly what was done to Barcelona. The area, which includes even Avenida Rio Branco will become closed to cars and a big open space spreading across Rio downtown. Transport will be done by eletric trams like in Oporto, Nice and other European cities reducing traffic, polution and creating a new attraction for tourists. Rio old town is not very well marketed as a tourist attraction.

Thanks for finally starting to have a discussion!

CHItown '16

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It sounds you believe the bid plans are 100% ok. I believe there is still some improvements to be done on social legacy.

This has to do with the economics of the bid. By building a upper-middle-class condominium in an area where there is strong demand for that kind of project, private developers will fund the construction with the right to sell the apartment after the Games. Unlike the PanAm Village this one is better located for a residential compound, selling it should be easy. I could spot many new developments in the surrounding area a week ago.

That's 100% on the economics, but 0% on social legacy. Social legacy should be the key factor of a bid from a developing country. As Brazilians, we have the right and duty to demand it...

Actually the idea is to implement exactly what was done to Barcelona. The area, which includes even Avenida Rio Branco will become closed to cars and a big open space spreading across Rio downtown. Transport will be done by eletric trams like in Oporto, Nice and other European cities reducing traffic, polution and creating a new attraction for tourists. Rio old town is not very well marketed as a tourist attraction.

What will happen to the builldings. Have they done a study to understand viability of business to be alocated in this area after the games? What kind of companies they want to atract? Will convertions be needed? Who will pay for it?

The aesthetics of the plan is very similiar to Barcelona, but not the quality of the planning itself...

Actually the idea is to have a training center where the Brazilian Teams for several Olympic sports would train for international events. Currently, the federations have to rent facilities to hold training camps for big events such as World Championships. So the idea is to provide a place for this camps to be held. It would also be used for permanent team trainings such as the one built in Curitba for Gymnastics.

Apart from that, National Championships could be held in the facilities to be built there and clinics for young athletes as well.

Beautiful! But, again, where will the resources to maintain this come from? Will be enough avilable resources to implement all of this after the games? JH stadium is an example. Botafogo Club pays peanuts for the rent... Was it a good investment? Was it planned carefully?

The IBC and others after the Games will be empty buildings. I would bet that the IOC will give them for the federations to build their HQs. CBDA (Swimming) and CBA (Athletics) HQs are in the Maracana compound and could easily be moved to this new area. The Brazilian OC HQ is also in Barra, but in a different area. If that's not the case, they can sell it for office buildings or stores, for which the area will have enough demand. The result would be a huge financial return for the OGOC.

I don't like the idea of public money supporting federations... They care about professional sports and we know only a little part of the sports practicants are pros... Why not build a temporary space and with the money saved, provide places for the general public to pratice sports and be healthy? No social legacy again...

Well, you forget that the transport infrastructure is actually the core of the social legacy. According to several studies, Rio inequality is boosted by the lack of communication between huge parts of the city. Not to mention the subway extensions, the new highway that will link Barra to Deodoro will take potential employees to the most fast developing part of the city. Such a link would relieve the pressure for the expansion of favelas in Jacarepagua and Recreio, since one can get decent housing for a reasonable price in the Deodoro area.

I agree transport is very important important as a social legacy, but it shouldn't be the core... I believe if the people of the country have health and education, they are prepared to transform for the better any country, including transportation.

Rio is very capable of hosting a world class and very memorable event, but I think the bid is aiming the wrong target...

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The port project will create new businesses such as restaurants and stores that will make the new compound linking the Docks in Praca Maua to the resto of the core in downtown. The capacity for cruise ships will be severely increased creating a demand for those kind of services around the docks, using the old warehouses, like it was done with Pier Maua. If that is not enough we have millions of people that work in the area that would also benefit form the services. I haven't read the plans in details, since they have been recently made public by the City Hall. But it is indeed a pretty ambitious project, but it seems to be yet to be finished.

Of course, you won't find the details of this plans in Rio 2016 bid books since they are not specifically related to the event. The reason for being mentioned is the link between Urban Planning and the SOG Project which is one of the evaluation criteria used by the IOC.

I have been to Barcelona and went over the Olympic Port. It is basically a residential area with a marina. In the surroundings of the Marina there is a bunch of restaurants and night clubs. Closing the reconstruction, there are 2 huge towers: Hotel Arts and a World Trade Center office building.

Beautiful! But, again, where will the resources to maintain this come from? Will be enough avilable resources to implement all of this after the games? JH stadium is an example. Botafogo Club pays peanuts for the rent... Was it a good investment? Was it planned carefully?

I don't like the idea of public money supporting federations... They care about professional sports and we know only a little part of the sports practicants are pros... Why not build a temporary space and with the money saved, provide places for the general public to pratice sports and be healthy? No social legacy again...

The resources comes from the Government funds that support sport development in Brazil. Like it or not, the vast majority of Olympic sports are highly dependent of public support, and I am not only talking only about Brazil. Most developed countries use the same approach, maybe the US might be a questionable exception.

The training center will provide an asset to reduce the cost of renting facilities, mostly abroad to stage training camps.

The social aspect of this project is the idea that promoting sport activities has an impact on the range of opportunities poor people are given. If you don't understand that promoting sport will have a social impact, then there is no legacy. The federations organize national teams for different age groups. CBDA has swimming teams starting at 14 year-old kids.

Well, about JH stadium you can complain to Cesar Maia. He is a Botafogo supporter and issued an RFP for the concession that was clearly made for Botafogo. As a result, Flamengo and Fluminense which might be interested, didn't bother to bid. That's why it is so cheap. The reason why is empty is that Botafogo supporters don't go to stadiums. It used to be one of the most passionate supporters in Rio after being 21 years w/o a championship and now they are just lame and boring. Anyway, Botafogo is responsible for maintaining the stadium so the City Hall actually profits from the venue, which apparently Botafogo does not.

I agree transport is very important important as a social legacy, but it shouldn't be the core... I believe if the people of the country have health and education, they are prepared to transform for the better any country, including transportation.

Rio is very capable of hosting a world class and very memorable event, but I think the bid is aiming the wrong target...

Well, the work on education will be done by some funds developed by the OGOC to promote sports among young people. But let's get real! A SOG will not leave such a legacy since its transformations will not reflect in the hardware and software for public education.

On the public health side, the main action is in regards to the sanitization of the Jacarepagua lake complex. These lakes are surrounded by poor neighborhoods that suffer from low level of sewage collection. Those works will have a direct impact in such populations. The other arguable action is also the promotion of sports among the population. Recent researches by IBGE show that among poor people in the country obesity is a larger issue than starvation.

But SOG typically do not leave legacy on such basic services, since they do not demand infrastructure on these areas, neither aa significant improvement on the quality of services.

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Feheva, do you really believe that 100% of our governments revenue has to be invested in education and health or are you just trying to find flaws in whatever you look at the Rio's bid?

If something generates profits, but no one ends up learning how to do equations, it's wrong:

[about the olympic village] That's 100% on the economics, but 0% on social legacy

If money is invested in sports, it's wrong:

"I don't like the idea of public money supporting federations..."
.

If it's invested in transport, it's also wrong:

"I believe if the people of the country have health and education, they are prepared to transform for the better any country, including transportation."

Lighten up. You do know that our Constitution provides a minimum amount of the governments revenue to be invested in education and health, right (art. 212)?

If you are this fired up about Rio's bid, I imagine how you feel about São Paulo hosting the World Cup. You are certainly against that, right?

If not, that's what I thought. Another case of São Paulo's jealousy for Rio's bid :lol: .

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I've always thought of Rio more like Miami than Los Angeles; South Beach/Copacabana Beach, mixed races, tropical, palm trees galore & more of a "South American" Latin flavor than Los Angeles. You'll find more Brazilians, by far, in Miami than in Los Angeles. Los Angeles has, by far, more of the Mexican culture instilled there.

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I've always thought of Rio more like Miami than Los Angeles; South Beach/Copacabana Beach, mixed races, tropical, palm trees galore & more of a "South American" Latin flavor than Los Angeles. You'll find more Brazilians, by far, in Miami than in Los Angeles. Los Angeles has, by far, more of the Mexican culture instilled there.

U're right. I'm just not that familiar with Miami (having visited only once for like 3 days, and other than the show of course). Plus, I generally don't like to think of it because of its excessive humidity.

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I share the same worries as you feheva.

I remember back in the day discussing in a brazilian forum about the PanAm games and the ones that were in favor of it would use the "legacy of the games" to justify all the immoral and illegal things that were happening there just to host a 3rd rate competition with OUR money, nosso suado dinheirinho... and what happened? wheres/whats the f. legacy of RIo2007? Underused buildings such the "White Elephant" Engenhão? LOL.. sure.

Where are the thousands of tourists that would start traveling to Rio because of the exposure the games would give to the city? All the exposure that Olympics would give to Rio would be negated by some tourists being killed few months after the games were hosted... Because me and you know that they would apply temporary solutions for the almost civil war in the city of RJ would be temporary. and don't try to deny this please. Our problems are way too complex to be solved by just hosting the Olympics Games. They would bring in thousands of cops/military from other states to keep the games safe and after that rio's population would keep suffering from the same problems as before.

Only a stupid guy would choose any big city in Brazil for the location of his family vacation over some Caribbean country for example. Same excitement with less risk of being killed in the streets by 16yo drugged teenagers. So the games wont help the tourism in any form if we don't fix the secury problems we already have. and we wont fix it any time soon.

(I'm sure that during the games Rio would be one of the safest city in the world. Thats a non issue. But don't come with this legacy bullshit. )

The games will only make the riches richer and it will be a great opportunity for the putrid people that command our politic and the COB to over inflate the costs and split public resources between themselves. (Just like the PanAm games, the only difference is that it would multiplied by 10) Plus, it would be good for the EGO of some Brazilians that need to hear the praises from the "1st world" to inflate their egos...

If Brazil were a serious country most of those people that are trying to bring the Olympic games to rio would be in JAIL because of what they did in the Pan American games. But since we're accustomed with these MF's they're being awarded with hundreds of millions of our money just to PROMOTE Rio2016. and the things that drive me crazy is that we're the favorites to win it... WTF? Before the SLC scandal I would be relaxed because I would be 100% sure that we wouldn't get the games... But since its members look to be as shady as the FIFA members I'm worried.

PS: I heard that Nuzman's "Charisma" (what? LOL!?) was one of the key points of Rio's passing Chigago in the gamesbids Index... LOL. is this serious? Only if by "charisma" they mean obscure things...

BTW, I tried to search threads about Nuzman here and couldn't find any... It's intriguing because I see Chigago's supporters using bizarre things such as Rio being the "World capital of sex changes" to downgrade it's campaign but I don't see anyone mentioning Nuzman's scandals during his 2decades reign in the COB..

Are we allowed to talk about Nuzman here? I'm worried because with such a big "charisma"(LOL, I can't express in words how funny is this to me) GB's may find my post to be inappropriate...

We'll have the WC already. Theres plenty of public resources to be 'robbed' because of the WC... but those people are so greedy that they want the Olympics too.. its so irritating...

(Pros meus compatriotas: Por favor não venham querer pagar de bonito pros gringos não falando q a cidade é segura e bla bla bla pq aí eu vou ser obrigado a postar fotos e vídeos pra provar q vcs tão errados. E sim, é quase uma guerra civil sim. Ou vcs acham q existe alguma polícia no mundo que usa veículo de guerra pra entrar em certas localidades? Que existe outra polícia do mundo que precisa montar esquema de guerra ou então pedir autorização dos bandidos pra entrar em uma área da sua cidade? Que tem helicopteros blindados com atiradores pendurados portando metralhadoras com calibre pra estraçalhar um corpo humano? Acho que não neh... Então é melhor deixar desse jeito.)

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