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Revoke The 2014 Games From Sochi


Augie4040

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The Games are suppost to symbolize peace and togetherness and yet this is the 2nd time in 6 years that the IOC gave the games to a nation that actively murders political rivals.

When did $$$ trump morality for the games. Yes every nation has its troubles but I dont think the PM of Canada executes opposition journalists(which Russia does), and I dont believe that the Mayor of Turin has secret police to dissapear Political Rivals(which China does).

Are they getting money? I mean the only difference between Russia & China and that of Sudan is different skin pigment and high quality suits. Thank God Saudi Arabia is inhospitable for the Olympics or the IOC might just give them 2 back to back games. Because as long as King Saud builds a nice enw stadium the IOC wont care if they publically behead women for driving a car.

The IOC should do the right thing and revoke the Sochi games and give them to Sweden or Japan.

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The Games are suppost to symbolize peace and togetherness and yet this is the 2nd time in 6 years that the IOC gave the games to a nation that actively murders political rivals.

When did $$$ trump morality for the games. Yes every nation has its troubles but I dont think the PM of Canada executes opposition journalists(which Russia does), and I dont believe that the Mayor of Turin has secret police to dissapear Political Rivals(which China does).

Are they getting money? I mean the only difference between Russia & China and that of Sudan is different skin pigment and high quality suits. Thank God Saudi Arabia is inhospitable for the Olympics or the IOC might just give them 2 back to back games. Because as long as King Saud builds a nice enw stadium the IOC wont care if they publically behead women for driving a car.

The IOC should do the right thing and revoke the Sochi games and give them to Sweden or Japan.

When you say that Russia actively murders political rivals you make it sound like it happens in every instance. Political leaders in the United States, Canada, Britain, France, Germany, China, Russia and just about every nation on earth are guilty of this - assasinations I believe also occur in your country too and indeed mine! In Texas, where you come from, the death penalty is still used which most of the world thinks is a disgrace and embarrassment to the United States. In the U.S 'suspects' were detained in a little camp known as Guantanamo without being proven guilty of any crime, again against international law.

I'm not attacking you or the United States but just as you obviously see that some IOC decisions are corrupt, most countries are too in varying degrees. I agree that some nations are worst than others - namely China which I agree should not have been awarded the 2008 games.

Where do you draw the line though? You cite Sweden as an example of where to give the Olympic games too. Some people feel Sweden is a corrupt nation - a liberal society which does not honour the sanctity of human life and encourages abortions etc - just giving an extreme example here. Why should Japan get the games? Well, they never bid for them lol. Further, Japan murders whales against international law. Hardly credentials for 'loving nature' or symbolizing peace and togetherness! So, what makes Sweden or Japan any better than Russia?

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Another noobish comment. Sochi, Russia won the games fair and square, they will still host. Just look at Beijing, China, there were far greater concerns with them and regards to Human Rights, etc, yet they still got the go ahead with the games.

Sochi will still go ahead with their games, sure, ideally you want a games in Sochi where the political and financial concerns are ideal, but that probably would never happen.

Oh and who would be the replacement host? Peyongchang? A city clearly not ready? A city pressed for time to construct venues etc? Just let Sochi host.

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Oh and who would be the replacement host? Peyongchang? A city clearly not ready? A city pressed for time to construct venues etc? Just let Sochi host.

Pyeongchang is still building their proposed venues, even though they lost the 2014 race (that's one of the argument some others are making for a 2018 Pyeongchang bid, that there would be no room for "improvement" of their bid since they're building everything anyway that they proposed from their older failed bids). So they wouldn't be pressed for time, if need be. Pyeongchang's probably more far along than Sochi is, since Sochi had to start building everything from scratch.

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I really think that giving Sochi the games in 2014 was, in many ways, a mistake. Sure, the area has potential, but everything had to be build. The city has very little history hosting winter sport events (there is actually more of a summer sports tradition...), and whit the kind of money the Russian government is trowing at Sochi it would probably be conceivable to host a summer games in Moscow... I think the right course of action for the IOC would have been to send Sochi back to the drawing board, to ask them to build some stuff and to host some world cups and to come back in four years. In my oppinion, both PyeongChang and (especially) Salzbourg had far more sensible plans.

But Sochi won, and I can understand why. Russia has been a major sporting power for decades, yet they have never hosted an boycotted games, and they had never hosted a winter games. In many ways, the IOC had to throw a bone to Russia, and after Moscow crashed and burned in 2012 giving Sochi the games was an elegant way to do it. That and, lets be honest, the winter games are going to mean more to Russians that to South Koreans. As for human rights, the Russians are far from clean, I will admit, but following that logic shouldn't the US be dismissed for Guantanamo, and Japan for its treatment of prisoners on death row? Heck, why not remove the games from Canada for all the prisoners we deported without proper evidence? Where do we draw the line, exactly?

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Where do you draw the line though?

You tell us Oaky! You were the one advocating a code of ethics which cities had to pass before being allowed to bid:

"That's why I feel the IOC should have a universally agreed set of ethics, principles, code of conduct which bidding cities must meet the demands of. That way any city can bid, as long as they step up and prove they are meeting the IOC's criteria. It's not about the IOC acting like the police but rather just maintaining universal laws which are good."

http://www.gamesbids.com/forums/index.php?...4868&st=270

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You tell us Oaky! You were the one advocating a code of ethics which cities had to pass before being allowed to bid:

"That's why I feel the IOC should have a universally agreed set of ethics, principles, code of conduct which bidding cities must meet the demands of. That way any city can bid, as long as they step up and prove they are meeting the IOC's criteria. It's not about the IOC acting like the police but rather just maintaining universal laws which are good."

http://www.gamesbids.com/forums/index.php?...4868&st=270

Oh, Rob, I see you have been waiting for an opportunity to try and 'catch me out' lol! Close but no cigar mate! :lol:

Well, I actually do believe there should be a code of ethics as that would make it clearer and more trancsparent as to what is required of the bids. It would also prevent a Beijing fiasco. Hence my emphasis on objective criteria. And if that code was used and Sochi was deemed not worthy of the Olympics I would support that decision.

In my comments here I was talking about how no country is perfect and how if Russia is condemned then there are countries which are no better - thats got nothing to do with the Olympics but just observation. Note that I still stand by my China views as China's conduct is beyond anything in any country.

However, the IOC does not operate in the way I would like therefore I am talking in relative terms as it's too easy to judge Russian politics but there is objective data regarding China's human rights issues. Further, the disregard of human rights in China in my view sits at odds with all the things the IOC is supposed to be about!

Again, if a more objective/ethical approach was taken there would be none of this supposing about bids suitability and moral reasoning for hosting. But until something like it is implements we will all disagree on a cities right to host, hence why I am playing devil's advocate with regards Sochi.

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Oh, it was devil's advocate was it? Sorry, that didn't come across.

The point is, though, even with your support for such a measure, where do you draw the line? It's not simple at all and there are of course massive, massive grey areas.

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Oh, it was devil's advocate was it? Sorry, that didn't come across.

The point is, though, even with your support for such a measure, where do you draw the line? It's not simple at all and there are of course massive, massive grey areas.

Truthfully, I don't know where I would draw the line as creating an ethical charter would be an incredible undertaking. I can just roughly intimate that I would desire an objective technical criteria aswell as an objective ethical criteria so that a synthesis can be reached when evaluating host cities. In my eyes it would help eradicate some of the cities who want to host but have questionable social issues aswell as rewarding bids which are competent.

Personally, I think that cities have to demonstrate the ability to host. If there are multiple cities in a given race which are able to host then the criteria rewards the best one of those particular one. Of course the IOC would need to define what is best etc. Again, you know my views !

With regards Sochi, the reason I interjected is that a lot of the criticisms being labelled at Russia are subjective and not absolute facts but if more factual information surfaces I can fully understand people's complaints. Whereas in China, it was a fact that their human rights record was abysmal. That's what I am getting at.

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With regards Sochi, the reason I interjected is that a lot of the criticisms being labelled at Russia are subjective and not absolute facts

Exactly! In many ways Russia is still a 'terra incognita' for the outside world.

All the more reason to have the Games there to bring the spotlight on it.

I feel the IOC should have a universally agreed set of ethics, principles, code of conduct which bidding cities must meet the demands of

Here are the principles of the Code of Ethics the IOC currently uses for all the bidding cities:

- Dignity (no discrimination, etc)

- Integrity (no concealed remuneration, etc)

- Resources (proper accounting, etc)

- Government relations (political neutrality, etc)

The last principle is sometimes overlooked in discussions like this one.

The IOC differentiates between the Organizing Committees and the rest of local authorities.

The ethics norms are clearly applied to what happens at the Games or in direct connection to its bidding and preparation.

As for the rest of what is happenning in the country, the IOC (and athletes, etc) cannot be held directly responsible.

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Here are the principles of the Code of Ethics the IOC currently uses for all the bidding cities:

- Dignity (no discrimination, etc)

- Integrity (no concealed remuneration, etc)

- Resources (proper accounting, etc)

- Government relations (political neutrality, etc)

The last principle is sometimes overlooked in discussions like this one.

The IOC differentiates between the Organizing Committees and the rest of local authorities.

The ethics norms are clearly applied to what happens at the Games or in direct connection to its bidding and preparation.

As for the rest of what is happenning in the country, the IOC (and athletes, etc) cannot be held directly responsible.

I personally feel that the IOC has to stand by them more. Further, I feel they could be more in depth and developed. That way, we wouldn't be discussing if a bid is right to host as the IOC code would be so objective that the city announced as the winner would be demonstrated as the best!

Anyway, thanks for listing those points!

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Anyway, thanks for listing those points!

You are welcome. :)

the cities/countries must be aligned with the IOC's values.

And those are "Excellence", "Friendship" and "Respect", right?

If you excuse me for going off-topic (I dislike the thread's topic anyway ;) ),

I would assess Beijing's performance generally OK.

I was there for two weeks last August and here is how they scored IMHO:

"Excellence" = 80%

"Friendship" = 60%

"Respect" = 40%

If you disagree, please mention if it's the values or my assessment.

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You are welcome. :)

And those are "Excellence", "Friendship" and "Respect", right?

If you excuse me for going off-topic (I dislike the thread's topic anyway ;) ),

I would assess Beijing's performance generally OK.

I was there for two weeks last August and here is how they scored IMHO:

"Excellence" = 80%

"Friendship" = 60%

"Respect" = 40%

If you disagree, please mention if it's the values or my assessment.

I agree that Beijing did a good job too. However, what I mean, and I have posted a lot about this in other threads, is that when the cities bid prior to being awarded the games, the IOC should be more objective in it's criteria and be more forcefull in it's ethical code.

As you can see, some people say things about Russia as it is stereotyped as the "terra incognita". I disagree with this kind of reasoning for revoking a games as Sochi won it's bid fair and square. Perhaps if the IOC were more stringent with regards the things I mentioned, then perhaps Sochi would not have won. I don't think we should condemn Russia using subjective opinions. If there were facts supporting peoples claims then that is different!

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the IOC should be more objective in it's criteria and be more forcefull in it's ethical code.

Thank you for supporting objectivity.

However, it is hard for the IOC to be "objective" in and even deal with "intangible" aspects for several reasons, e.g.

1) There is no single universally accepted yardstick to measure political conditions (freedoms, etc) for all countries.

2) The IOC's role (as stated in the Olympic Charter) among other things is "to oppose any political abuse of sport".

3) The IOC can easlily be sued if they deny the (multi-billion-dollar) right to host the Games for political reasons.

4) Possible boycotts and counter-boycotts have proven to do nothing but damage the Olympic Movement itself.

That is why (as I've mentioned) the IOC have chosen to differentiate between the Organizing Committee and the rest of local authorities and only undertake resposibility for what happens at the Games or in direct connection to its bidding and preparation. And rightly so IMHO.

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Thank you for supporting objectivity.

However, it is hard for the IOC to be "objective" in and even deal with "intangible" aspects for several reasons, e.g.

1) There is no single universally accepted yardstick to measure political conditions (freedoms, etc) for all countries.

2) The IOC's role (as stated in the Olympic Charter) among other things is "to oppose any political abuse of sport".

3) The IOC can easlily be sued if they deny the (multi-billion-dollar) right to host the Games for political reasons.

4) Possible boycotts and counter-boycotts have proven to do nothing but damage the Olympic Movement itself.

That is why (as I've mentioned) the IOC have chosen to differentiate between the Organizing Committee and the rest of local authorities and only undertake resposibility for what happens at the Games or in direct connection to its bidding and preparation. And rightly so IMHO.

Good post!

That's what I mean about utilizing objective voting criteria during the bid. This would help determine the 'best' bid without resorting to intangible factors which cannot be objectively assessed.

We would not be debating why a city won after it won but rather accepting of the city as it proved it's worth. It would prevent the Beijing fiasco.Anyway, that's just my view.

With regards Sochi, they won their bid fair and square under the bidding setup that the IOC currently uses. I personally don't think it is right to condemn Russia based on subjective media stereotypes and place them in the same category as China which objectively had major issues i.e. their extreme human rights violations!

If the IOC did emphasize ethical conduct a lot more then perhaps Sochi would not have won. But that's a whole other issue. The fact is it did win.

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What fiasco? A successful,indeed spectacular, games, great ratings, great interest, gave the largest country in the world a chance to experience Olympism. I don't see it's had any greatly negative effect.

You haven't read my posts.

The fiasco I am referring to is the 'anti-China' rallies, 'free tibet groups', the people disrupting the torch relay, the attacks on whether or not China should be allowed to stage the games etc.

I never said China did not produce a great games.

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You haven't read my posts.

The fiasco I am referring to is the 'anti-China' rallies, 'free tibet groups', the people disrupting the torch relay, the attacks on whether or not China should be allowed to stage the games etc.

I never said China did not produce a great games.

Personally, I thought those were good developments. It made China aware there was a price they would neede topay for having the games, and made sure the issue of China's political complexion were raised, quite vividly, in its Olympic year.

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Personally, I thought those were good developments. It made China aware there was a price they would neede topay for having the games, and made sure the issue of China's political complexion were raised, quite vividly, in its Olympic year.

That's where I differ in opinion Roltel.

Instead of awarding the games to a questionable host in the first place and then having to deal with all that, why not just insist countries, if they wish to host the Olympics must meet certain conditions prior to the bidding. I think we all know the IOC was lenient in viewing China's human rights record!

If countries met the IOC ethical charter ( a revised one BTW) then we could simply enjoy the particular host instead of squabbling about a host city which was picked on questionable grounds due to IOC 'intagible' voting.

I digress.lol.

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