aluz Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 At present, Brazil's economy is growing which the US is not - in that respect, yes Brazil is better. But Brazil's economy is so based on natural resources that if those prices or demand change drastically - so does the national economy. Brazil's education system is so messed up that I do not think it has a chance of becoming a first-world fully developed nation until massive changes are made. Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!!! I loved visiting Brazil and look forward to going again this November but I'm not sure of its abilities to serve as host of the SOG.Right now, Lula fully supports the bid but we don't know how the new president to be elected next year (I believe) will support the bid and all the costs that will be required to bring Rio up to Olympic standards. I have no doubts that Rio CAN do this - even North Korea COULD do this - it's just a matter of whether or not it's the BEST thing for them to do right now. In fact, Brazil has quite a diverse export portfolio. One of the largest exports is air planes. However, a huge part of those exports comes from commodities. The difference with other commodities exporters is, again, the diversity. Moreover, many of those commodities are food, for which the world economy recession has less impact. After all, the last thing people stop buying is food. Anyway, Brazil suffered a severe reduction in the mining and steel exports, but other chief products like soy kept flowing. Regarding government sponsorship, with the public support behind the Games, no one will dare to say that will not fight to get it done. Anyway, most of the investment will be done by the governor and mayor and both will run for reelection in 2010 and 2012 respectively. Which means that if Eduardo Paes gets re-elected he will be the mayor during the whole SOG hosting cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbr Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 At present, Brazil's economy is growing which the US is not - in that respect, yes Brazil is better. But Brazil's economy is so based on natural resources that if those prices or demand change drastically - so does the national economy. Brazil's education system is so messed up that I do not think it has a chance of becoming a first-world fully developed nation until massive changes are made. Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!!! I loved visiting Brazil and look forward to going again this November but I'm not sure of its abilities to serve as host of the SOG.Right now, Lula fully supports the bid but we don't know how the new president to be elected next year (I believe) will support the bid and all the costs that will be required to bring Rio up to Olympic standards. I have no doubts that Rio CAN do this - even North Korea COULD do this - it's just a matter of whether or not it's the BEST thing for them to do right now. Let's analyse your comment full of prejudice... Brazilian economy ISN'T that based on natural resources... in fact, services sector is the biggest in our GDP, followed by industry (yes, we have a developed industry sector, if you don't know), and than agriculture. Besides that, in agriculture we use advanced technology, and concerning natural resourses, they are being used in a way that the industries are also devoloping... just as in the case of Petrobras, and the industry of renewable fuel. It's very ignorant to say that the whole economy can go to hell if the commodities prices go that down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Well, it's virtually obvious that the IOC EC is paving the Yellow Brick road for a Rio win. This report smells a lot like the 2008 one, ala Beijing. And the most surprsing review of all was Madrid's grade in this report. Lack of understanding?? Puhleeze! Really? They had plenty of "understanding" 4 years ago, but now all of a sudden they don't get "Olympic requirements"? And Rio wasn't even in the finalist picture 4 years but they "understand" now. Whatever. Madrid is just getting sacked for the main obvious reason; London 2012. Madrid is being sacrificed, just like Osaka was in the 2008 report. What a joke.And Rio's 4 cluster venue plan getting a fairly good pass? WTF is that all about? The IOC all along harps about compactness & convenience & then comes out with this?? Not to mention the transportation challenge within Rio's 4 clusters. I bet Tokyo feels like a fool now with their most compact plan of the 4 cities. It seems that the only subtle negative for Rio was the FIFA 2014 World Cup, but even that was pretty much glossed over, too. Whatever. I also agree that Obama HAS to go to Copenhagen now, for Chicago to have a decent shot at winning this. Cause it seems blatantly obvious that this "report" is just shining all over Rio, despite all the clouds hovering over their bid. Insane. That's exactly my opinion on the Madrid report. I'm so shocked about it and find it so hypocritical that I wouldn't care anymore about the report OR the Olympic race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Yes friend. You understand what I said. Very good Some people confuse "the current economic environment" and "growth" with "absolute size of the economy." Obviously that U.S.A have the largest economy in the world, the best economy in the world, but Brazil is "the BRIC at the time" and this is one of our most important flags in this dispute. It is important to remember. Thank you for your argument, it is more productive for the discussion than the sarcasm of Baron. Very true. However, Brazil's citizens do not reap the rewards of the countries wealth like in Spain, Japan or the USA. The wealth is not distributed as much in Brazil. Brazil might have a fairly large economy but relative to the population it is less than the other cities who have a more advanced economy which is integrated into the social fabric of it's citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 That's exactly my opinion on the Madrid report. I'm so shocked about it and find it so hypocritical that I wouldn't care anymore about the report OR the Olympic race. I agree with you. Madrid is the sacrificial lamb. Spain is the birthplace of the Hispanic culture and they stand in the way of Brazil winning. Hence why the IOC is being quite harsh on them in comparison to Rio. If you take the "no South American city hosting" point out of the equation what does Rio have that is superior to the other cities. Nothing. It has more poverty, crime, less infrastrcuture, etc. So, I think it is unfair that they are getting treated softly. Technically, Madrid and Tokyo are the best bids but their technical excellence is being sidelined to make way for Rio's sympathy parade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago Simões Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 This is my first post here. I joined the forum because I've seen that some people are absolutely desperate about the Olympics coming to Rio and it is hard for me, as a habitant of Rio, not to say anything after reading comments that sound offensive and full of prejudice. Especially these two: Maybe the favela residents will get a section in the Opening a la the aborigines in Sydney's Opening? blink.gif I would rather they got some decent housing with running water and heating. I feel sick when I read things like these. Habitants of favelas are not segregated. Favelas hold 15% to 20% of the population of Rio and it is safe to say that only 3% to 5% of the favelas are home to really poor people. The vast majority of the habitants of favelas receive more than the minimum wage per month. Almost all of the habitants have access to clean water, and those who do not can ask for the government to deliver water for their communities in special trucks. Most of them have TVs, a stove, a freezer, one or more cell phones and some have access to the Internet at home. Even those who do not have Internet connections at home can pay around 1.50 US dollars for using a communitary computer connected to the Internet for one hour. People who live in favelas are not living among monkeys and are not isolated from the society. Also, there is no need for heating, since the lowest temperatures in Rio are rarely under 15 °C. Most of the time, temperatures are around 25 to 30 °C. Even in cold days, the temperature is usually around 18 to 20 °C. When you guys have absolutely NO idea about what you are talking about, keep your mouths shut and your fingers away from the keyboard. I am glad to see that the IOC believes that Rio can host the Olympics. Rio is not a paradise, but Chicago, Tokyo and Madrid are far from being paradises too. I read about corrupt politicians in Chicago, complaints about transportation, complaints about not having enough police officers and firemen, rampant chaos caused by thugs and gang members and all of this makes me wonder why you guys think Chicago is a better place to host the Olympics. The fact is that an "underdeveloped" country, as some of you stubbornly call Brazil, is finally able to challenge big and powerful countries like Japan and the USA when it comes to hosting an event like the Olympics. If the Olympics come to Brazil, it will be thanks to the merits of the bid, not because Brazil is a sentimental favorite. Let the best bid win, but please do not talk nonsense about a place you guys know absolutely nothing about. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSTOUT1221 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Brazilians get so touchy when their country is criticized! I'm called ignorant for pointing something out that I feel is true simply because you don't like to have your "dirty laundry" aired! Welcome to the DEVELOPED world Brazil - if you want to be one of the big boys, you better step up and accept the criticism because it comes, deserved or not! I lived through 8 years of George Bush so I know! Brazil's economy is diverse but there is little opportunity there for a favela resident to achieve more than maybe lower middle class status in his lifetime. When I was in Rio for 2 weeks, I was instructed BY BRAZILIANS to never walk alone at night not even in Ipanema. I was singled out by every male, female and tranny hustler in a 10 block radius as income potential and was scared to even drink a beer in the bar for fear of being slipped something! I love the city and country but the level of awareness I had to use was beyond what I would use in any of the other 3 cities - that's a fact. Most Brazilians and favela residents don't trust the police in Rio - why should a foreign tourist feel safe!!!! I'm not trying to just Brazil-bash - I merely think these are obstacles to overcome for the city to stage major events like the SOG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 This is my first post here. I joined the forum because I've seen that some people are absolutely desperate about the Olympics coming to Rio and it is hard for me, as a habitant of Rio, not to say anything after reading comments that sound offensive and full of prejudice. Especially these two:I feel sick when I read things like these. Habitants of favelas are not segregated. Favelas hold 15% to 20% of the population of Rio and it is safe to say that only 3% to 5% of the favelas are home to really poor people. The vast majority of the habitants of favelas receive more than the minimum wage per month. Almost all of the habitants have access to clean water, and those who do not can ask for the government to deliver water for their communities in special trucks. Most of them have TVs, a stove, a freezer, one or more cell phones and some have access to the Internet at home. Even those who do not have Internet connections at home can pay around 1.50 US dollars for using a communitary computer connected to the Internet for one hour. People who live in favelas are not living among monkeys and are not isolated from the society. Also, there is no need for heating, since the lowest temperatures in Rio are rarely under 15 °C. Most of the time, temperatures are around 25 to 30 °C. Even in cold days, the temperature is usually around 18 to 20 °C. When you guys have absolutely NO idea about what you are talking about, keep your mouths shut and your fingers away from the keyboard. I am glad to see that the IOC believes that Rio can host the Olympics. Rio is not a paradise, but Chicago, Tokyo and Madrid are far from being paradises too. I read about corrupt politicians in Chicago, complaints about transportation, complaints about not having enough police officers and firemen, rampant chaos caused by thugs and gang members and all of this makes me wonder why you guys think Chicago is a better place to host the Olympics. The fact is that an "underdeveloped" country, as some of you stubbornly call Brazil, is finally able to challenge big and powerful countries like Japan and the USA when it comes to hosting an event like the Olympics. If the Olympics come to Brazil, it will be thanks to the merits of the bid, not because Brazil is a sentimental favorite. Let the best bid win, but please do not talk nonsense about a place you guys know absolutely nothing about. Thanks. You are biased since you are Brazilian. Obviously you are pro Rio. You are getting annoyed because people are telling the truth about Rio with regards it's imperfections. All cities are imperfect but not to the extent that Rio. Is 20% of a city living in shanty towns acceptible? It absolutely is not. Don't even come out with that PC crap that people in the favelas are doing alright. Their standard of living is abysmal. Fact! Do you think people want ram-shackle housing or bricks and mortar building with sanitation? You have no right to tell people not to post or shut up. Who are you? Calling Rio out on it's imperfections is just stating facts. In the same breath as you call people prejudice for criticizing Rio you cast Chicago in a gang stereotype. Newflash -Al Capone no longer resided there! Get over yourself - people are not prejudice or racist for not supporting Rio and to suggest that is a cowardly argument. You make a good point about letting the best bid win. If we take that to it's logical conclusion then Rio should not win as it has the worst infrastructure, social condition/poverty/ lower public support than Madrid, less quality venues than Madrid or Tokyo. Rio is a sentimental favourite and if it wins it will not be because it has the best bid - it's a fact that Madrid has the best technical bid. Even the IOC assert this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago Simões Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 When I was in Rio for 2 weeks (...)Most Brazilians and favela residents don't trust the police in Rio - why should a foreign tourist feel safe!!!!" I have lived in Brazil my whole life, not just two weeks. Of course there are problems, but it seems like you trying to imply that Chicago is a safer place, with no crime and gangs, and that citizens of Chicago trust the police blindlessly. I'm sorry, but I can not agree with such a biased point of view. It is not a matter of getting touchy about criticism, it is a matter of not wanting to take the same old criticism that is based purely on prejudice. Most of the events are expected to take place in Barra, not Ipanema. Ipanema can not be considered a 100% safe place, but if you go to NY City at night, can you consider Brooklyn a 100% safe place? Anyway, in any big city you will be stopped by hookers every two blocks when walking late at night. Your comments are biased and there is no way I can take your comments seriously when you have no idea about what it is to LIVE in Brasil. Do not treat Brazil as third world garbage when "third world" problems affect the other countries just as well. As I said before, I am SICK of comments like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago Simões Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 You have no right to tell people not to post or shut up. Who are you? Calling Rio out on it's imperfections is just stating facts. How do you even dare to point out "imperfections" if you haven't been living here and has not witnessed what is to live in a favela? Shanty towns? Come on. I have a lot of friend who live in favelas and some of them have salaries higher than mine. I don't have the right to shut anyone up, of course, but I have the right to counter criticism when it is based on prejudice from people who have never been to Brazil or Rio whatsoever. People here tend to think that their countries are neverending sources of joy and happiness. I am not saying Brazil is a perfect place, but some of the "imperfections" you are pointing out do not even make sense. Thanks God the IOC has been here, has seen and has witnessed what is to live here, or else we would be victims of severe prejudice like the people on this forum are showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I have lived in Brazil my whole life, not just two weeks. Of course there are problems, but it seems like you trying to imply that Chicago is a safer place, with no crime and gangs, and that citizens of Chicago trust the police blindlessly. I'm sorry, but I can not agree with such a biased point of view. It is not a matter of getting touchy about criticism, it is a matter of not wanting to take the same old criticism that is based purely on prejudice. Most of the events are expected to take place in Barra, not Ipanema. Ipanema can not be considered a 100% safe place, but if you go to NY City at night, can you consider Brooklyn a 100% safe place? Anyway, in any big city you will be stopped by hookers every two blocks when walking late at night. Your comments are biased and there is no way I can take your comments seriously when you have no idea about what it is to LIVE in Brasil. Do not treat Brazil as third world garbage when "third world" problems affect the other countries just as well.As I said before, I am SICK of comments like yours. Rio has more crime and poverty than Madrid, Tokyo and Chicago. Fact! So, since the 2016 bid concerns these cities it is natural people will talk about these cities. All cities have troubles but of the four bid cities Rio has more problems than the rest. Rio is notorious for it's crime culture.Fact! People's comments are not biased. People are stating facts about Rio. You don't like it because you are from there. However, an event as important as the Olympic games deserves this level of discourse. You need to stop lying to yourself that Rio's problems are the same as the other cities when everyone knows they are much worst. Stick to the facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago Simões Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 You need to stop lying to yourself that Rio's problems are the same as the other cities when everyone knows they are much worst. Stick to the facts! What is the point of stating facts when all you have to "prove" the facts are a bunch of words out of context? I LIVE in Rio. I have BEEN here for 25 YEARS. There are social problems, of course. I am an English teacher and I give classes to low income students. But you guys are talking about favelas as if they were a source of social segregation. Is this a "fact" just because you read it somewhere? So, I have a new "fact" for you: favelas do not segregate poeple. Racism is a much bigger problem in Brazil; I acknowledge this is a much bigger problem than the favelas. Yet, people are not even talking about that, because they haven't read about racism on the same book they have read about favelas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kngkyle Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Here is what the US State Department has to say about crime in Brazil and in Rio specifically: CRIME: Crime throughout Brazil has reached very high levels. The Brazilian police and the Brazilian press report that the rate of crime continues to rise, especially in the major urban centers – though it is also spreading in rural areas. Brazil’s murder rate is more than four times higher than that of the U.S. Rates for other crimes are similarly high. The majority of crimes are not solved. There were rapes reported by American citizens in 2008.Street crime remains a problem for visitors and local residents alike, especially in the evenings and late at night. Foreign tourists are often targets of crime and Americans are not exempt. This targeting occurs in all tourist areas but is especially problematic in Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Salvador and Recife. Caution is advised with regard to nighttime travel through more rural areas and satellite cities due to reported incidents of roadside robberies that randomly target passing vehicles. Robbery and “quicknapping” outside of banks and ATM machines are common. In a “quicknapping,” criminals abduct victims for a short time in order to receive a quick payoff from the family, business or the victim’s ATM card. Some victims have been beaten and/or raped. The incidence of crime against tourists is greater in areas surrounding beaches, hotels, discotheques, bars, nightclubs, and other similar establishments that cater to visitors. This type of crime is especially prevalent prior to and during Carnaval (Brazilian Mardi Gras), but takes place throughout the year. While the risk is greater at dusk and during the evening hours, street crime can occur both day and night, and even safer areas of cities are not immune. Incidents of theft on city buses are frequent. Several Brazilian cities have established specialized tourist police units to patrol areas frequented by tourists. In Rio de Janeiro, crime continues to plague the major tourist areas (see separate section on Rio de Janeiro). At airports, hotel lobbies, bus stations and other public places, incidents of pick pocketing, theft of hand carried luggage, and laptop computers are common. Travelers should "dress down" when outside and avoid carrying valuables or wearing jewelry or expensive watches. "Good Samaritan" scams are common. If a tourist looks lost or seems to be having trouble communicating, a seemingly innocent bystander offering help may victimize them. Care should be taken at and around banks and internationally connected automatic teller machines that take U.S. credit or debit cards. Very poor neighborhoods known as "favelas" are found throughout Brazil. These areas are sites of uncontrolled criminal activity and are often not patrolled by police. U.S. citizens are advised to avoid these unsafe areas. Carjacking is on the increase in Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Recife and other cities. Travelers using personal ATMs or credit cards sometimes receive billing statements with non-authorized charges after returning from a visit to Brazil. The Embassy and Consulates have received numerous reports from both official Americans and tourists who have had their cards cloned or duplicated without their knowledge. Those using such payment methods should carefully monitor their banking online for the duration of their visit. While the ability of Brazilian police to help recover stolen property is limited, it is nevertheless strongly advised to obtain a "boletim de ocorrencia" (police report) at a "delegacia" (police station) whenever any possessions are lost or stolen. This will facilitate the traveler's exit from Brazil and insurance claims. In many countries around the world, counterfeit and pirated goods are widely available. Transactions involving such products may be illegal under local law. In addition, bringing them back to the United States may result in forfeitures and/or fines. More information on this serious problem is available at the web site of the Computer Crime & Intellectual Property Section of the U.S. Department of Justice . RIO DE JANEIRO: The city continues to experience a high incidence of crime. Tourists are particularly vulnerable to street thefts and robberies in areas adjacent to major tourist attractions and on the main beaches in the city. In 2008 there were attacks along trails leading to the famous Corcovado Mountain, on the road linking the airport and the South Zone and on the beaches of Copacabana. Travelers are advised not to take possessions of value to the beach. Robbers and rapists sometimes slip incapacitating drugs into their drinks at bars, hotel rooms, or street parties. While crime occurs throughout the year, it is more frequent during Carnaval and the weeks prior. In the weeks before Carnaval 2009, robbers ransacked two tourist hostels. Travelers should be aware of their surroundings and victims are advised to relinquish personal belongings rather than resist or fight back. Tourists should choose lodging carefully, considering security and availability of a safe to store valuables, as well as location. Over the past year, attacks against motorists increased. In Rio de Janeiro City, motorists are allowed to treat stoplights as stop signs between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. to protect against holdups at intersections. Travelers should follow police instructions in the event of road closures, and report all incidents to Rio’s tourist police (DEAT) at (21) 2332 2924. The tourist police have been very responsive to victims and cooperative with the U.S. Consulate. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1072.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 How do you even dare to point out "imperfections" if you haven't been living here and has not witnessed what is to live in a favela? Shanty towns? Come on. I have a lot of friend who live in favelas and some of them have salaries higher than mine.I don't have the right to shut anyone up, of course, but I have the right to counter criticism when it is based on prejudice from people who have never been to Brazil or Rio whatsoever. People here tend to think that their countries are neverending sources of joy and happiness. I am not saying Brazil is a perfect place, but some of the "imperfections" you are pointing out do not even make sense. Thanks God the IOC has been here, has seen and has witnessed what is to live here, or else we would be victims of severe prejudice like the people on this forum are showing. People don't need to go to Brazil to talk about. Do I need to go to Iraq to have an opinion on the war there? Infact, you being a Brazilian resident could contribute to bias about Rio. You keep banging on about prejudice - no-one is displaying that. That is a cowardly argument to use to try to silence people's legitimate concerns. Being critical of Rio is not akin to prejudice. If I am critical of Al-Queada does that make me prejudice to then? It is facts that have been posted about Rio. What imperfections I note don't make sense? The fact that Rio has higher crime, poverty than the other bid cities. The fact that Rio has poorer infrastructure than the other bid cities. The fact that Madrid has the safest bid. Just because people are critical of Rio is not right of you to call them prejudice. People have legitimate concerns that 20% of Rio natives live in shanty towns. Does Rio really need to be spending billions on a sporting event or trying to help those in need. Rio's problems are infinitely worse than Spain's, USA, Japans which all enjoy amongst the highest standard of living in the world and which financially are more capable of integrating an Olympics into their country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSTOUT1221 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 The IOC was there for a few days on a special VIP tour and that's enough to form an accurate opinion of the city! I guess you have to live there to make a negative comment about the Marvellous City!! Thiago, I appreciate your passion and love of Rio - I share most of it. Just because I question safety and/or the country's ability to stage a truly modern world-class SOG does not mean I think Brazil is some third-world sh*thole with no food or water! Pointing out well-documented issues in Rio's bid does not make me prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 What is the point of stating facts when all you have to "prove" the facts are a bunch of words out of context? I LIVE in Rio. I have BEEN here for 25 YEARS. There are social problems, of course. I am an English teacher and I give classes to low income students. But you guys are talking about favelas as if they were a source of social segregation. Is this a "fact" just because you read it somewhere? So, I have a new "fact" for you: favelas do not segregate poeple. Racism is a much bigger problem in Brazil; I acknowledge this is a much bigger problem than the favelas. Yet, people are not even talking about that, because they haven't read about racism on the same book they have read about favelas. But when Brazil is willing to spend billions on an Olympic games when a disproportionate amount of it's citizens have poor lives can be viewed as corrupt. Just because you live there does mean that you are the authority on Brazil - you may be biased afterall. Favelas are not ideal housing conditions. Do you think people living there would stay there if they had another option of a home with warmth, sanitation etc. No-one mentioned social segregation except you who seem obsessed with labelling everyone prejudice who disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago Simões Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 You keep banging on about prejudice - no-one is displaying that. That is a cowardly argument to use to try to silence people's legitimate concerns. (...)Rio's problems are infinitely worse than Spain's, USA, Japans which all enjoy amongst the highest standard of living in the world and which financially are more capable of integrating an Olympics into their country. Of course there are problems. I'm not denying this fact. The Portuary Zone in Rio is a terrible place. Poverty is rampant, drug addicts go there to consume drugs, hookers and thugs live there also. It is a really bad place. The bid highlights that the plan is to use sport and the Olympics as tools for social integration and for improving quality of life for poor people. If Rio wins, the government will invest millions of dollars in the Portuary Zone. People who live there will be able to live better lifes, away from poverty. It looks like you are saying that since Spain, USA and Japan enjoy high life standards, the Olympics should come to a "richer" country, with "richer" people. Your discourse sounds like, "let's leave the 'third world' behind and give the Olympics to rich countries". No one here seems to be aware that the Olympics represent more than a multi-sport event to Rio. The Olympics represent the possibility of a better life here. The plan is to construct permanent venues so young people can train after school and get away from the streets, to build more subway lines so the average worker can spend less time when commuting to work, to revitalize poor zones so poor people can live better lives. You seem only to think that "Brazil is dangerous, let's rant against them". I guess that living in Rio and witnessing the development of the city day by day I am in a better position to talk about what it is to actually be here. Yes, there is violence. Yes, there is tourist theft. Yes, there is a considerable number of people people living in poor places. But things are not so alarming as a US governamental agency is trying to make it seem. It is easy to criticize people as an outsider, but living here and witnessing changes and improvements is a different thing altogether. Of course there are a lot of problems to be solved, but much has been done and, if the games come to Brazil, much will be done. It is not the perfect place nor it is going to be anytime soon, but I can't seen any of the other 3 candidates being perfect and spotless places as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Of course there are problems. I'm not denying this fact. The Portuary Zone in Rio is a terrible place. Poverty is rampant, drug addicts go there to consume drugs, hookers and thugs live there also. It is a really bad place. The bid highlights that the plan is to use sport and the Olympics as tools for social integration and for improving quality of life for poor people. If Rio wins, the government will invest millions of dollars in the Portuary Zone. People who live there will be able to live better lifes, away from poverty. It looks like you are saying that since Spain, USA and Japan enjoy high life standards, the Olympics should come to a "richer" country, with "richer" people. Your discourse sounds like, "let's leave the 'third world' behind and give the Olympics to rich countries". No one here seems to be aware that the Olympics represent more than a multi-sport event to Rio. The Olympics represent the possibility of a better life here. The plan is to construct permanent venues so young people can train after school and get away from the streets, to build more subway lines so the average worker can spend less time when commuting to work, to revitalize poor zones so poor people can live better lives. You seem only to think that "Brazil is dangerous, let's rant against them". I guess that living in Rio and witnessing the development of the city day by day I am in a better position to talk about what it is to actually be here. Yes, there is violence. Yes, there is tourist theft. Yes, there is a considerable number of people people living in poor places. But things are not so alarming as a US governamental agency is trying to make it seem. It is easy to criticize people as an outsider, but living here and witnessing changes and improvements is a different thing altogether. Of course there are a lot of problems to be solved, but much has been done and, if the games come to Brazil, much will be done. It is not the perfect place nor it is going to be anytime soon, but I can't seen any of the other 3 candidates being perfect and spotless places as well. OK. So you are right about Brazil and the US state department is lying. Whatever! I never said only rich countries should host the Olympics. Please read my actual words. I said that Spain, USA and Japan are in a stronger position to host the Olympics since they have advanced social culture. Rio has bigger problems than these cities given that 20% of it's citizens live in shanty towns and that it's crime rate is appalling. You keep saying that the other cities are imperfect. True. But not to the extent that Rio is. Why can't you comprehend this. Rio's problems are in a different league to the other cities. That's a huge issue. 20% of Madrid, Chicago, Tokyo residents are not living in squalor and don't even say that favelas are acceptable because they are not. The Olympics are not some thing the Brazilain government can use to implement it's social change exclusively. Why are they not helping people in the favelas without the pretext f the Olympics. That's just lame. It shouldn't take an Olympics as an excuse to help people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago Simões Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 OK. So you are right about Brazil and the US state department is lying. Whatever! The US government was right about mass destruction weapons in Iraq, wasn't it? Of course the US government is very trustful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluz Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Well, I once posted a link here (unfortunately in portuguese) about a series of articles about favelas done by a former presidente of IBGE (the Brazilian bureau of statisitics). The problem of the favelas has very little to do with poverty and housing availability. The main reason for so many people to live in such conditions in Rio is two-folded: lack of mass transit and geographical distribution of work opportunities. Well, I don't believe that those who do not live or lived in Rio have ever talked to someone from a favela. If they had, they would know that people who live there would not trade their homes for nice public housing where there is available land to build them. Rio had a lot of public housing projects that failed. The favela people won't move unless they get the same work opportunities available. By the way, I would complement Thiago's comment that heating is unnecessary, but air conditioning is needed and they have it. They can afford it. The term favela is not even what it used to be. Some favelas are nothing but housing projects with full infrastructure that became controlled by gang lords. They are much like the projects in Chicago and New York. Usually, the favelas that you've seen in pictures are probably the ones in the South side of Rio - the least poor with HDI above 0.800. Rio's 2016 project does more to help people from the favelas than the other opportunities for government spending that many mention here. The new transport lines will give fast access from people who live in the vicinity of Avenida Brazil (those are really poor, but just a few live in favelas) access to fast trasnport to Barra, Zona Sul, Grande Tijuca and the down town. This will link areas with potential for low income real state development to thriving economic centers with jobs for everyone. You are talking out of your poor knowledge, but I bet that Rio's OC gave that lecture to the EC. The report of the US govenment is one of those that shows how Americans like to issue such documents without checking the facts. Once in a while you get a Brazilian newspaper discussing this. Crime rates in Rio tend to fall during Carnival in all aspects. And crime has increased in rural areas in average, because some corners of Brazil are a lot like the wild west in the late 1800s. Its frontier land with no government infrastructure, including police. Since we are not gong to host the Games in some small town in Mato Grosso, it won't be an issue. In the cities, however, crime rates have been falling steadily. Last, but not least, I have always walked the streets of Ipanema during the night and was never afraid. Some people talked too much and made you extremely anxious. Relax and you are going to have a good time. By the way, don't worry about the tranny, Ipanema has an active gay community and he was just trying to earn his living or maybe he was just around waiting for Banda de Ipanema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 The US government was right about mass destruction weapons in Iraq, wasn't it? Of course the US government is very trustful. It was right about Saddam Hussein! And to try to use the Iraq issue to mock America just show your limited intelligence on a forum about the Olympics. I don't see the Brazilian government complaining about all the US aid they get. Oh, sorry, I shouldn't say that out loud in case the Rio maffia get annoyed. By that same standard what has Brazil done to be so trustful - it can't even provide decent housing for it favela natives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakydoky Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Well, I once posted a link here (unfortunately in portuguese) about a series of articles about favelas done by a former presidente of IBGE (the Brazilian bureau of statisitics). The problem of the favelas has very little to do with poverty and housing availability. The main reason for so many people to live in such conditions in Rio is two-folded: lack of mass transit and geographical distribution of work opportunities.Well, I don't believe that those who do not live or lived in Rio have ever talked to someone from a favela. If they had, they would know that people who live there would not trade their homes for nice public housing where there is available land to build them. Rio had a lot of public housing projects that failed. The favela people won't move unless they get the same work opportunities available. By the way, I would complement Thiago's comment that heating is unnecessary, but air conditioning is needed and they have it. They can afford it. The term favela is not even what it used to be. Some favelas are nothing but housing projects with full infrastructure that became controlled by gang lords. They are much like the projects in Chicago and New York. Usually, the favelas that you've seen in pictures are probably the ones in the South side of Rio - the least poor with HDI above 0.800. Rio's 2016 project does more to help people from the favelas than the other opportunities for government spending that many mention here. The new transport lines will give fast access from people who live in the vicinity of Avenida Brazil (those are really poor, but just a few live in favelas) access to fast trasnport to Barra, Zona Sul, Grande Tijuca and the down town. This will link areas with potential for low income real state development to thriving economic centers with jobs for everyone. You are talking out of your poor knowledge, but I bet that Rio's OC gave that lecture to the EC. The report of the US govenment is one of those that shows how Americans like to issue such documents without checking the facts. Once in a while you get a Brazilian newspaper discussing this. Crime rates in Rio tend to fall during Carnival in all aspects. And crime has increased in rural areas in average, because some corners of Brazil are a lot like the wild west in the late 1800s. Its frontier land with no government infrastructure, including police. Since we are not gong to host the Games in some small town in Mato Grosso, it won't be an issue. In the cities, however, crime rates have been falling steadily. Last, but not least, I have always walked the streets of Ipanema during the night and was never afraid. Some people talked too much and made you extremely anxious. Relax and you are going to have a good time. By the way, don't worry about the tranny, Ipanema has an active gay community and he was just trying to earn his living or maybe he was just around waiting for Banda de Ipanema. Well, the very fact that Rio needs so much improvement when the other cities are in a stronger position to host say alot. Good luck to Brazil in improving their countries social woes but the Olympics are not a charity and objectively Rio has the biggest rick attached to it. What does Rio have that the other cities do not? Nothing. Infact Madrid and Tokyo trump Rio is all areas in terms of venues/transport/infrastructure. So why should Rio get the games over better bids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSTOUT1221 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I don't mind the trannies - I'm a gay American so it actually added a nice flavor to my visit!!! I did walk Ipanema at night against the advice of others and never had a problem. I would not have ventured into the favelas at night though but then again, I would not go for a walk in a bad southside Chicago neighborhood either. I believe the Olympics have the potential to transform a city in many ways but there are things that Rio needs beyond housing and subway lines. Just because a favela resident has increased opportunity due to the Olympics, what job opportunities beyond the service sector exist? I don't think $11-12B USD will be enough to transform the city into a better place. Much more will be needed in education and social services to give lower income residents a true chance at advancement. I hope this happens but making the city "look good" for 2 weeks will not transform the society. And how does the US government's decision around WMD in Iraq have anything to do with the 2016 SOG? Absolutely nothing - it serves as an excuse for you to dismiss any American comments about Rio on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluz Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Well, the very fact that Rio needs so much improvement when the other cities are in a stronger position to host say alot.Good luck to Brazil in improving their countries social woes but the Olympics are not a charity and objectively Rio has the biggest rick attached to it. What does Rio have that the other cities do not? Nothing. Infact Madrid and Tokyo trump Rio is all areas in terms of venues/transport/infrastructure. So why should Rio get the games over better bids? Legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 As I said before, I am SICK of comments like yours. welcome, thiago. If this site is NOT GOOD for your health, then perhaps you should stay away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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