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Why Is Rio Being So Criticized In This Forum?


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Not quite.

What we say in Chicago is - if you're worried about a bad result, make sure that you've figured out how to get to a good result, how the goods result looks, and how a bad result looks.

As an example, look at how Chicago 2016 was designed as an almost exact counterpoint to NYC 2012:

among other differences

And, we're hoping, leading to results that have very little resemblance to NYC2012.

But, back to the topic, Cities can change and change drastically as a result of the Games. If the IOC does choose Rio 2016, as the "guests" of the Games, will we be proud of what Rio changed itself to be or will we be embarrassed of what we asked it to do?

Legacy to the IOC does focus on sporting legacy but the Olympics legacy and the sporting legacy doesn't just mean large stadiums and training facilities. What is Rio 2017, Rio 2018, Rio 2019? And what is the story you want to read under the "Rio 2016 Summer Games - 1 Year Later" headline? Or, for that matter, what is written in 2014 and 2015 about the preparations?

CHItown '16

The main investment in Rio 2016 is not on "useless venues", but in mass transit and other infrastructure items.

By the way, mass transit is in the heart of solving the falvelas issue in Rio. Many favelas are not the home of the miserable. They are a solution for lower middle class people to ive close to work opportunities. If you vist the home of someone in a favela, you be most likely to find out that this people live in houses with all the appliances you can think off: fridges, TVs and even PCs.They choose to live in a plce lacking the basic infrastructure to expand their work opportunities.

So the answer to your questin is: "It's going to be a better place, especially for the poor." This improved commuication is an important step in the transformation of Rio into a more just and safe city.

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I've been reading lots of posts in this forum against Rio's bid. Some because Rio is "not ready; some because there is "poverty" in Brazil,; some because it is "not safe". And so on. Now, for real, why are you against Rio's bid?

Can you answer that question, honestly?

Because Rio is the city that best responds to the "why" of games.

The candidature of the city grew. The world is enthralled. The sports world is in love with our proposal.

For this reason, always appears a new troll here against Rio, Some cynical members create discussions on walls in the favelas in the forum of Rio...

Discuss the shortcomings of Rio is the new wave because the fact is that Rio is the best option for 2016 and this is increasingly more clear to the world and the IOC. And some people are desperate with this. :)

A kiss from Brazil

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It is precisely because Rio is gathering momentum that it is important to take a close look at the bid. Rio offers an exciting new frontier, vibrant culture, a beautiful setting and enthusiasm, but there are other very serious practical concerns as well. Your posts seem to suggest that any criticism at all is unfounded and should be dismissed as sour grapes from supporters of other bids. All the bids have weaknesses. Rio's particular set of weaknesses are different from those of the other candidates. Just because we discuss valid concerns related to Rio's bid does not mean that we harbor any ill-will towards Rio. There are valid questions about venues, budget, etc. We are simply having a conversation. I am not anti-Rio. I am not trying to make Rio look bad. I'm trying to honestly take stock of a serious bid. Rio's bid is not perfect -- nor is any other bid. It is valid to ask whether Rio is really offering the best proposal in comparison to the other candidates.

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Cauê, you are more than welcome to start a thread about Chicago's private financing. It is important in the spirit of democracy to allow people to voice their opinions, and just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that it is not warranted. Sure, some people on here are kind of mindless in their posts, but some are not. It seems like you have a hard time distinguishing between the two, and just group anyone with opposition as someone who is ignorant.

Believe me, if Doha, Buenos Aires, Cape Town, Istanbul, or any other emerging city were in Rio's place, these same questions would be asked.

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^^

This question was not answered?

Well, Rio is the only proposal that offers a real legacy for the IOC and opens the doors of a new world for the Olympic movement. Brazil's economy is large and the guarantees have been proved and signed by the government...

Rogue, a new future of gaming is in your hands. If you push the door, she will open and showing a different world.

This is my message.

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Caue - the types of points we asre discussing here I'd like to think are exactly the types of debates that are going on now in the Halls of Lausanne and of NOC offices around the world. I support Rio, but it's not above criticism and the issues being raised really are of concern to many people. All the other bids also have their own concerns as well.

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What is Miss Brazil doing to improve the lives of those in the favelas? <_<

And what people here are doing to improve the lives of those in the favelas?

Let this problem to the Brazilian Govt....

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If we want to go into the favelas discussion, the government is already working hard and the money needed for that is not in the Olympic Budget and is not that much.

1. There are now 5 favelas under the new community police approach (Cidade de Deus, Batan, Dona Marta, Chapeu Mangueira e Babilonia). Under this new approach, police batalions are created inside the favelas to make those places safe and drive away the drug lords. As of today, this project is very successful, being Cidade de Deus, due to its size, the only favela where the dealers have not been completely expelled. However, the police has successfully taken control over those areas.

2. Some huge investment projects are being held at major favleas such as Rocinha and Complexo do Alemao. Major works are being done to create recreational areas for the kids and spaces for community meetings. Improvements in sanitation are also on the target.

Finally, understanding the problems of the favelas is tough, as it is not only a matter of poverty. Unfortunately, I don't have a good source in English, but if some of the portuguese speakers feel to learn more about the subject, I suggest you to read the articles posted by Sergio Besserman Viana (economist from PUC-RJ and former president of IBGE, the Brazilian statistics bureau). He did a series of articles on the proposal to build walls to mark the ecological limits for the favelas growth. In that series he discusses the favelas issues including the myths around the problem, like the relations between poverty and favelas. For the others, you may try to read it by using Google Translate.

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/ancelmo/besser...;periodo=200904

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In my point of view, favelas in Rio aren't a problem as dangerous as Gary, Indiana - Chicago suburban area or Newark, New Jersey - New York suburb. Believe me, I would rather walk around Rocinha or Canta galo (as I did before, and talked to nice, educated people living on those favelas) than go back to that trashy Newark again (God forbid), where I saw a prostitute screaming for she was being beat up in the middle of a street under day light. The Chicago people shouldn't, IMO, use the 'blame it on favelas' excuse, since their so called developed country have similar issues going on their surroundings, but masked by much richer areas. If the IOC adresses to the Rio favelas and forget to adress about Chicago not so priviledged suburbs than this is it - call on some eye doctors for some hundrend somethin fellas needing glasses.

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^^

Chicago have poverty and problems too? I do not know. All the people here comment about the problems of Rio but the people here do not comment about the problems of chicago.

This is curious.

But I am against psychological terrorism here. I know that Chicago can solve their problems and refuse to attack them here.

Only regret the constant attacks for the problems of Rio.

:)

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As has been mentioned several times before, it's about levels of crime and poverty, not merely the fact that they exist. Rio has at least double the murder rate of Chicago and poverty, it goes without saying, is a much bigger problem in Brazil than the USA.

Whether this should be seen as an issue or not when discussing Olympic bids is debatable of course. But if it is to be an issue, it's not one that'll be swept away by saying "well, Chicago has these things as well (but to a much lesser extent)".

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As has been mentioned several times before, it's about levels of crime and poverty, not merely the fact that they exist. Rio has at least double the murder rate of Chicago and poverty, it goes without saying, is a much bigger problem in Brazil than the USA.

In Rio's defense, that situation would create more beds and more visitor housing for 2016!! :lol:

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As has been mentioned several times before, it's about levels of crime and poverty, not merely the fact that they exist. Rio has at least double the murder rate of Chicago and poverty, it goes without saying, is a much bigger problem in Brazil than the USA.

Whether this should be seen as an issue or not when discussing Olympic bids is debatable of course. But if it is to be an issue, it's not one that'll be swept away by saying "well, Chicago has these things as well (but to a much lesser extent)".

The people can not fail to discuss their problems because they are smaller than those of others. I just said what I see here. Much discussion about the problems in Brazil and no discussion on these issues for the other candidates. Well, I'm not talking about the problems of Chicago, Tokyo and Madrid. Not me. I am saying that if Rio dispute with the poorest city in Somalia, is not for this reason that we leave our problems aside to talk only about the African city. Understand?

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Sarcasm aside, I don't think questions and concerns directed at supporters of the bid cities should be considered as a move to belittle or "bully" an individual city for no apparent reason. I'm assuming a lot of posters here at Gamesbids have some sort of idea of the dynamics of the bidding process, analysis, evaluation, etc. So questions beyond the basics should be asked. If I were a Rio supporter I would have imagined the worst possible scenarios and the most false assumption of my city's image from a different, global perspective. Bidding for the games will surely invite such scrutiny and deficiencies would stick out more. The questions regarding the favelas and poverty are as valid as a person inquiring about gangs and crime in Chicago. Films like City of God and Central do Brasil and Chicago and the Untouchables don't help either for Rio and Chicago, respectively. As ardent supporters of Rio, it's up to you guys to dispute such notions; not whine or complain why everyone's picking on Rio.  Imagine what Beijing had to go through with questions on politics, human rights and everything else in between. And the world is not concerned about Mogadishu because there's no spotlight shining on it. 

Think of it this way, we're actually helping you reason your way why Rio should be awarded the Games. You may be surprised, but Chicago is also being "picked on" by more people than you expected--its own residents throwing any questions and concerns from crime and funding to transportation and corruption. That's why we had those public neighborhood meetings. It's just a way of reminding people to address these concerns before committing to this billion dollar party.

I think I just complained myself.

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If you think that people are only criticizing Rio, then you haven't been reading these forums very carefully. Madrid has been dismissed by many as a frivolous bid with no chance of winning due to its proximity to Athens, Torino, London and Sochi. Many have dismissed Tokyo as being too close to Beijing and failing to generate any enthusiasm or expectancy whatsoever. Chicago has been lambasted by many primarily because of the USOC's tactless relations with the IOC.

No one has written off Rio. No one has said that Rio has no chance. Some of us do question whether Rio is the best candidate. That's just the price of being a contender. Stop crying foul.

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