Soaring Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 even the beautifull ones... Sometimes it seems that you only discuss the "beautiful" side, and are deeply offended by anyone who talks about anything else unless they casually discuss needs for improvement to crime. I have never heard any of you acknowledge that Rio has the least favorable venue plan. Sure, the master plan video is great, but the actual layout is not the best out of the four cities, it quite frankly is the least favorable. To my knowledge, no one has ever doubted Rio's ability to provide scenic venues, just as many have complimented Chicago's skyline as a nice backdrop, and Soldier Field with Olympic Island on it's doorstep. Maybe we start a thread that highlights positives and negatives of each bid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCD 2012 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Its threads like these that actually pisses off the average reader in this forum into going against Rio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiTown16 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Some Brazilian here said that Rio is perfect?Please, I do not see it here. This is from the Sports Accord presentation discussion: Not talking about the city to not begin another useless discussion.ONLY ABOUT BIDS: Rio de Janeiro BID is the frontrunner. All the presentations, videos, stuff, bid book. Rio is the pro bid in this race. Of couse, it really doesn't really mean that Rio will win. But Rio have an almost perfect bid. There is something to say for having confidence in your bid committee and your plan but it's not helpful in a discussion to claim to have the 'perfect bid'--there isn't one. Every city has positives and negatives as a potential host. It seems where are discussing Rio de Janeiro politics or Rio's mayor election than Olympic city host election... In a sense--the rest of the world is the 'guest' to the 'host' city. And the host city becomes the subject of considerable scrutiny and second-guessing within a year of selection. And host cities have a record of taking on projects under the "Preparing for the Games" umbrella that make people around the world uncomfortable. Look at it like this--You are planning to visit a friend in Sao Paolo for a few days in December. You're probably OK if he tells you he's buying new sheets that will fit on his couch. You're probably also alright if he's cleaning out the extra bedroom. If he tells you he's buying a new bed, you're probably less comfortable. If he tells you he's building a new addition on his house and he wants it done before you come, you're a little more weary. If he's buying his neighbor's house so you have a place to stay while you're in town, you're probably trying to talk him out of it and telling him you'll be fine sleeping on the couch. If he's suing his neighbor to acquire his house so you have a place to stay and that they're fighting each other every morning, you'll tell him that you're no longer interested in visiting and you're feeling awful for even bringing up the idea. That's how it can feel to watch a host city's preparations. It isn't so much that we become citizens and constituents of the host city, but we become the reason that the host city makes its decisions and its changes so we do feel responsible. And, knowing that we will be taking responsibility, we'd like to know what the city government might do to accommodate us. The host city contract obligates the host city to adequately accommodate the Games. It doesn't say what the city can or cannot do to make those accommodations. We discussed favelas (walls, money, crime), we discussed projects for subway and bus systems, we discussed poverty, we ALSO discussed holes in asphalt here...You guys discussed here almost all the bad things of Rio de Janeiro... We always try to talk about all the sides of Rio, even the beautifull ones... The beautiful side of Rio is indisputable, obvious, and is accepted. There isn't anything to discuss because no decisions made for the Games are likely to change that. And its clear from videos and pictures. I am starting to see discussions about the policing changes and new facilities in the favelas, the reasons behind their location and their challenges (transportation challenges push people to live in inadequate locations that are closer to work), the transportation ideas to overcome the physical challenges of Rio. But I'd also be interested in tying this together--What is Rio like as a Rio resident? Not just physical beauty but what is the character of the people and the city? What would we not see in pictures and videos? Where do people live/ work/ play and what are the challenges today? Every large city has traffic challenges, by the way--but some are more severe than others. Are transportation improvements to accommodate the Games on routes that would benefit where people travel or would want to travel? How widespread are the sanitation and community facilities improvements? And how are they impacted by the needs of the Games? And how might the Games lead to improvements or to other challenges? We discuss these issues around Chicago and people have been asking those questions during meetings since we started the bid process. We want to know what is likely to happen and we want to be comfortable with what the city is likely to do leading to 2016 and beyond. Are people asking those questions in Rio? As a Games host, Rio will change and, likely, will make changes that are uncomfortable and that may seem unnecessary. What is Rio likely to do while "Preparing for the Games"? And what makes you confident about the plans? CHItown '16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I've been really impressed by your posts ChiTown16. Do stick around here, even if Chicago loses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 The beautiful side of Rio is indisputable, obvious, and is accepted. There isn't anything to discuss because no decisions made for the Games are likely to change that. And its clear from videos and pictures.Are people asking those questions in Rio? As a Games host, Rio will change and, likely, will make changes that are uncomfortable and that may seem unnecessary. What is Rio likely to do while "Preparing for the Games"? And what makes you confident about the plans? I also very impressed by your comments. There's nothing wrong to support Rio's bid. As long you know what you are supporting, right? Fernando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Menegaz Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 People here are very stressed. All, supporters of Rio or not, must comply with the current situation. That is why Brazil is known as the land of contrasts. We have the largest rainforest in the world next to a desert, snowy mountains next to a savanna. We have one of the world's largest cities despite villages of Indigenous who never had contact with civilization. We have hungry people despite we are the largest food producer in the world. In Rio, we can see a golf course next to a favela. In the south, we had towns that, until the middle of 20th century, had the German language as predominant. He have states compared to Africa, and at the same time, others compared to Europe. We Brazilians, must accept the criticism in order to improve our weaknesses; as well as other people ("against" Brazil) should measure their words. This was to be a useful forum, which would provide a harmonic coversation among the participants. I think it's time to stop fighting over things like that, stop defending Brazil as a perfect country, and also, stop attack it as the existence of this country was a threat to human rights. Calm down people! Calm down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I am calm, but I just speak my opinion. Which is... Rio, not soooo soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Menegaz Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I am calm, but I just speak my opinion. Which is... Rio, not soooo soon. Your opinion is very welcome! But there is no need to create multiple topics to the same subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiTown16 Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 I also very impressed by your comments. Thank you Rob and Fernando. There's nothing wrong to support Rio's bid. As long you know what you are supporting, right?Fernando Of course not. There is nothing wrong with supporting a city's bid. Although I'd be disappointed if Chicago doesn't win, I would like to see a 2016 Olympics that fulfills the potential of the Games, makes preparations that are respectful to the people of the city, and leaves a positive legacy for its host city regardless of which bid wins. Part of being a Chicagoan is that we plan, discuss, and debate almost everything important that happens to the city. In all honesty, it took me months of research to feel comfortable with what I knew about Chicago 2016 and I'm continuing to learn more about the bid and about the committee's views and their projections and the information they use to support their projections. The four stars on the city flag-- (the same type of star in the Chicago 2016 logo) are a frequent reminder of our citizens' history of engagement. The last 2 stars are from major global events of the late 1800s/early 1900s--the World's Fairs of 1893 and 1933. The 2nd is a reminder of our ability to recreate ourselves (after the Great Fire that destroyed much of the city). 2009 is also the 100th Anniversary of the Burnham Plan--the city plan that largely defines the Chicago we see today and continues to guide many of our decisions. The Plan arose from significant debate and discussion and compromises and projections about the future. It's also one of the strongest legacies from the World's Fair of 1893 (Burnham was the chief architect of the World's Fair and gained the credibility to develop and implement his plan from the fair's success). Part of our legacy from global events is what people see from Chicago 2016 and our people's reactions to this effort. When we move to other cities, we do ask our new governments how they are planning for the future and on what basis they are making their projections and what they think will happen if we do follow their ideas and their plans. As a global citizen and 'guest' of the Games, this is also the point of view from which I observe Games preparations and planning. CHItown '16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I am starting to see ... Chi, I have to admit. I'm stressed with this forum, but I'm not stressed with you. You, soaring, roltel... There are nice guys trying to discuss good things here. But you are not the majority here and you know it. We have trolls, people creating useless topics to attack Rio, to say bullshit against Brazil and its people. It's anoying to read prejudicial or non-accurate comments against Rio de Janeiro. It makes me mad. I already said I'm here as a Rio supporter. You can't find many post made by me in the other cities threads. I'm not here to evaluate Tokyo, Madrid or Chicago. I'm here for Rio only. All the four contenders HAVE the ability to host the games, but I'm Rio fan... I have no connections to the other cities, winning or losing... That's me. Other thing: In the posts you quoted me. I wrote "It seems", "almost", "can be"... I meant Rio has a pro bid (as the other have too) but IT SEEMS Rio Comitee is doing very well the job because we have been atacked by all the sides, all people in everything!!! And, altought, IT SEEMS Rio IS ONE OF the strongests bid here, with real chances of winning... Take me as a Rio less-sarcastic Baron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I am calm, but I just speak my opinion. Which is... Rio, not soooo soon. You overexposed your idea... Try to said something beautiful to the beautiful city... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Part of being a Chicagoan is that we plan, discuss, and debate almost everything important that happens to the city. CHItown '16 This is what I miss in Rio and Brazil. We tend to believe in what the comitee says without stoping to think about it. Sometimes I'd love to read in this forum things like "This is not the best way to do it, what about doing like this?", but all I read is things like "Look, we can do exactly like is in the bid". I'm against the Rio's bid the way it is as well as the World Cup plans. I'm not against Rio and Brazil hosting major sports events... As a Brazilian, I feel very uneasy to see our lack of critic thinking. We fail to notice how it is important for our future and everyday life in our neighborhood, Rio, Brazil or the World. Honestly, I have a little aversion towards USA bacause of its international policies, but you are making me feel less intolerant... Fernando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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