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What You Must Know About Rio´s Bid


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I can't imagine a crowded stadium for example for some Beach Volleyball match between Georgia v Guatemala... Anywhere...

Doesn't matter who's playing, beach volleyball always gets good crowds just about everywhere. Swimsuits, pop music, carnival atmosphere - it's always a great Olympic ticket.

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I see your point, Rob.

I actually agree with you.

But you can't deny that some numbers are being misused, which is wrong. Especially if one uses these figures to base their arguments on.

I repeat: I'm not saying Brazil has no social issues. And I've seen none of the Brazilians denying it either.

As a matter of fact, I hope the SOG's could help them because they're the ones capable of hosting the games who need the most.

Recently there are loads of people saying: they are poor, they can't. I simply disagree.

It bothers me, though, to see distorted reasoning . It is clear I support Rio and I see no reason why Chicago supports should make use of statistics manipulation to give a wrong impression about Rio.

Just one last thing.

Although London 2012 is also planning to use / using the games to bring social improvements, there's a major difference with Rio 2016, namely the area.

Whereas 2012 will boost East London particularly, Rio is offering prime locations, not poorer areas.

The legacy in Rio will be more indirect but that's a compromise between social profit for the locals and international safety for us, visitors.

Ken guys like Rob in the UK feel that they stand on a moral High ground when really it is a Keep the games in the first world and let the APES from the Developing world come to entertain us in the UK and other so called first world places.

IT comes as a complete shock that Rio has the main stadium and many of the venues UP and ready while London continues to Grope in the dark less then 3 years to the games . Then the excuse to deny is the social conditions of the Population or what they perceive.

Chicago has had 300 homicides via firearms this year so far. We don't hear from Rob how America should have gun control like the UK before they host the Olympics ? FYI rob there is probably as much poverty and violence in some parts of Chicago as there is Some parts of Rio. Basically no go zones .

Frankly you look at the national finances of a country and Brazil is way ahead in that department compared to the Three other candidate countries and the 2012 host country. If Brazil was to embark on the Socialism the UK had in that past 50 years then they would be in the same position as Gordon Brown and Alex Salmond on their knees Bobbing for Cash from Muammar al-Gaddafi and the other Arabs who don't exactly have much in the way of Human Rights or democratic process fro their populations. So much for a Moral stance from the UK as it has been reported the handing over of a mass murderer was a business transaction according to one of Muammar al-Gaddafi's sons.

Jim jones

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Ken guys like Rob in the UK feel that they stand on a moral High ground when really it is a Keep the games in the first world and let the APES from the Developing world come to entertain us in the UK and other so called first world places.

How fvcking dare you accuse me of racism.

I have made it ABUNDANTLY clear where I stand on Rio (that if they are to host long-term good must come of it) so stop peddling lies and fvck right off. Jerk. :angry:

That the mod continually refuses to ban this utter twat shows how bad a state this forum has got into. Leniancy is one thing, but NOBODY on this board wants Jonezzz here. NOBODY. Why the hell doesn't the mod do what we all want and just throw the twat out?

Can anyone tell me the last time we were able to discuss the CWG, Olympics in developing countries, or anything related to Glasgow or the UK properly on this forum? Because I sure as hell can't remember. As long as Jonezzz remains here, certain subjects - some massive - will always be off limits, and certain threads will always, UTTERLY PREDICTABLY, degenerate into a waste of bandwidth. It's got the point where I can tell from the opening post whether Jonezzz will single-handedly ruin a thread.

Mod, do what everyone wants and just throw Jonezzz out now.

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How fvcking dare you accuse me of racism.

I have made it ABUNDANTLY clear where I stand on Rio (that if they are to host long-term good must come of it) so stop peddling lies and fvck right off. Jerk. :angry:

That the mod continually refuses to ban this utter twat shows how bad a state this forum has got into. Leniancy is one thing, but NOBODY on this board wants Jonezzz here. NOBODY. Why the hell doesn't the mod do what we all want and just throw the twat out?

Can anyone tell me the last time we were able to discuss the CWG, Olympics in developing countries, or anything related to Glasgow or the UK properly on this forum? Because I sure as hell can't remember. As long as Jonezzz remains here, certain subjects - some massive - will always be off limits, and certain threads will always, UTTERLY PREDICTABLY, degenerate into a waste of bandwidth. It's got the point where I can tell from the opening post whether Jonezzz will single-handedly ruin a thread.

Mod, do what everyone wants and just throw Jonezzz out now.

Well like the London Zoo and Royal Museum the Developing world in to be brought to one of the Arm pits of the universe for the entertainment of the locals.

When you people can start to place artifacts looted from all over the Earth back with the rightful owners then you can perhaps stand on a moral ant hill. But the excuse would be OH they don't have museums they live in Mud HUTS .

Jim jones

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Notice guys that ONCE AGAIN we're not talking about the subject the thread is about, because Jonezzzz has diverted it towards his stupid, boring agenda.

This is why most think you should be banned, because every thread you post in ends up being about the same stupid thing. And this is precisely why you were banned in SSC.

If someone wants to carry on talking about Rio, feel free, I can't be fvcked at the moment.

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I'd like to say... yeah, beach volleyball always will have crowds...

Ok, let's imagine a Handball match between Guatemala and Georgia... Now we will have empty venue... LOL

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JJ, why do you post stuff that has nothing to do with the topic at hand? Sometimes your posts are relevant, but often it veers into WTF territory.

because these cry babies from the Uk seem to think they have a moral judgment over Rio De Janiero and that they should be denied the rights to the games just like every over Place that is no controlled by Whites . There problem is that with every turn their racism towards the Chinese , Brazilians and everyone else not white comes from the Fact that these places do it better then London or Athens.

I see the excuses these people place for denying the games to Non white Places. They have a double standard Thinking Chicago is perfect safe and so on . WRONG. CNN last night had an hour special about gun violence out of control in Chicago with over 300 dead so far this year.

Rio has the Velodrome, The Aquatics Centre, The Arenas , the shooting venues , , The Rowing Venue, The main Athletics Stadium complete and on the ground today. Where is London with games less then 3 years away ? A complete sailing venue that is about it .

Moral and logistic superiority well that certainly does not hold true with the next host.

Point out that Rio has problems of Violence in some parts and it plays to the laundry list of Excuses while Chicago has gotten a free pass on the same type of Issue ? does that not sound like a double standard ? Yeah lets close the Games to Western Europe and Asia the only theatres of Wars of any size in the past 400 years.

Jim jones

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because these cry babies from the Uk seem to think they have a moral judgment over Rio De Janiero and that they should be denied the rights to the games just like every over Place that is no controlled by Whites .

Jonezzz, none of us have said anything like that. If you're going to lie at least do it convincingly, dickhead.

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because these cry babies from the Uk seem to think they have a moral judgment over Rio De Janiero and that they should be denied the rights to the games just like every over Place that is no controlled by Whites . There problem is that with every turn their racism towards the Chinese , Brazilians and everyone else not white comes from the Fact that these places do it better then London or Athens.

I see the excuses these people place for denying the games to Non white Places. They have a double standard Thinking Chicago is perfect safe and so on . WRONG. CNN last night had an hour special about gun violence out of control in Chicago with over 300 dead so far this year.

Rio has the Velodrome, The Aquatics Centre, The Arenas , the shooting venues , , The Rowing Venue, The main Athletics Stadium complete and on the ground today. Where is London with games less then 3 years away ? A complete sailing venue that is about it .

Moral and logistic superiority well that certainly does not hold true with the next host.

Point out that Rio has problems of Violence in some parts and it plays to the laundry list of Excuses while Chicago has gotten a free pass on the same type of Issue ? does that not sound like a double standard ? Yeah lets close the Games to Western Europe and Asia the only theatres of Wars of any size in the past 400 years.

Jim jones

I could never imagine that I would be defending a Brit, LOL... but, JJ, you've reach it so far. Let me say you that you are acting exactly as you are telling UK people does with the Madrid and Tokyo bids, ignoring and banishing them just for one single argument without the ability of developing your ideas. Let me say you that you have never read a single line about either bids and you talk just about what you read in here.

Don't give us lessons of what is right and what is wrong and please start to show your real interest in the race.

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I'd like to say... yeah, beach volleyball always will have crowds...

Ok, let's imagine a Handball match between Guatemala and Georgia... Now we will have empty venue... LOL

Admittedly, Team Handball isn't one of the premier sports in the U.S.:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/sports/o...ts/10cheer.html

Team handball is a high-scoring, seven-on-seven court sport in which players rifle a ball the size of a coconut into a goal the size of C. C. Sabathia (6 feet 7 inches tall, 10 feet wide). There’s dribbling, passing, leaping, hard-throwing, off-the-ball moving and body slamming. It is the most American sport at which Americans stink the most. We haven’t played in the Olympics since 1996, and then only because we hosted. In 2006, we lost to Greenland.

But handball (real fans don’t say “team”) has been generating news around the globe lately. A few of the developments may even put us on the road to greatness.

There are teams in several cities (including Chicago) and an annual tournament:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30556081@N04/...57612523316811/

Younger students are learning the sport and learning how to apply their dribbling, passing, leaping, and ball movement skills to handball:

http://coloradohandball.com/main/Portals/0...l%20Program.pdf

At the Chicago 2016 Lake Michigan Sports Complex (aka McCormick Place), the handball courts are located right next to the basketball prelim courts:

Handball-082109.jpg

handball.jpg

Given the dozen or so events in the same set of buildings, it's plausible that a spectator could purchase all access, all day pass to see several events the same day. This is consistent with how visitors currently use McCormick Place:

concourse03.jpgshow-photo.jpg

Often one event uses several buildings at the same time--attendees often access the different areas and different events with a single pass for a single admission fee.

The McCormick Place arrangement was designed to help promote the less popular sports by locating them in the same complex as the press and broadcast centers and to generate interest by locating them together and creating interest by providing easy access between venues.

Especially if they already have access to the venue and if the sport is interesting in itself, Chicago sports fans will watch sports of almost any type out of curiosity--if you watch a sports bar when no Chicago team is playing, people are still watching the TVs and choosing a side to cheer for on the spot.

So, it is quite possible that people would walk under the "Handball--Georgia v. Guatemala - EAST 2 - 2:30pm" on the flatscreen and watch the game. Some may even be cheering

"Go Georgia Bulldogs! G-E-O-R-G-I-A! Georgia! Bulldogs! Go Dawgs! Sic 'em! Woof, woof, woof!"

Wrong Georgia, of course -- but it'd be an earnest effort. ;)

CHItown '16

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because these cry babies from the Uk seem to think they have a moral judgment over Rio De Janiero and that they should be denied the rights to the games just like every over Place that is no controlled by Whites . There problem is that with every turn their racism towards the Chinese , Brazilians and everyone else not white comes from the Fact that these places do it better then London or Athens.

I see the excuses these people place for denying the games to Non white Places. They have a double standard Thinking Chicago is perfect safe and so on . WRONG. CNN last night had an hour special about gun violence out of control in Chicago with over 300 dead so far this year.

Rio has the Velodrome, The Aquatics Centre, The Arenas , the shooting venues , , The Rowing Venue, The main Athletics Stadium complete and on the ground today. Where is London with games less then 3 years away ? A complete sailing venue that is about it .

Moral and logistic superiority well that certainly does not hold true with the next host.

Point out that Rio has problems of Violence in some parts and it plays to the laundry list of Excuses while Chicago has gotten a free pass on the same type of Issue ? does that not sound like a double standard ? Yeah lets close the Games to Western Europe and Asia the only theatres of Wars of any size in the past 400 years.

Jim jones

You really are a complete retard!

Rio happens to be the favourite bid of me and most of the people I've spoken to on the subject. If anyone is being racist at the moment on this forum it's yourself, with constant, and almost always completely unfounded, criticism of the UK.

You seem to crave attention - doesn't anyone listen or take you seriously in the real world?

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Given the dozen or so events in the same set of buildings, it's plausible that a spectator could purchase all access, all day pass to see several events the same day. This is consistent with how visitors currently use McCormick Place:

It's possible I suppose...because it will be like a cineplex. The thing though is, per the practice, each venue keeps track of attendance per session; so I don't know how they would account for an all-access pass. (I think it will be too complicated for record-keeping purposes to issue all-access passes.) Probably people like our Chateau Petrus here, would buy those.

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It's possible I suppose...because it will be like a cineplex. The thing though is, per the practice, each venue keeps track of attendance per session; so I don't know how they would account for an all-access pass. (I think it will be too complicated for record-keeping purposes to issue all-access passes.) Probably people like our Chateau Petrus here, would buy those.

It could also resemble a music festival--multiple stages, multiple acts that appeal to different people. For instance, Lollapalooza, the music festival in Grant Park every summer in August:

Ariel_Crowd.jpg

or the Pitchfork Music Festival:

34.jpg

-- festival ticket holders have usually only only heard of two or three bands but stay around and listen to different bands looking for music that is surprising and interesting. And unknown bands can gain new fans in an afternoon.

An all access pass would likely be very popular among families -- for instance, for people who'd like to experience the Olympics but can't get tickets to swimming, beach volleyball, gymnastics, or track and who want to do more than cheering along the docks while staring out of binoculars, standing and listening outside of venue gates, or watching the projection screens. They can, instead, mill around McCormick Place with a few hundred thousand others and step into an event that they've never seen before between teams from countries they wouldn't have expected to watch and be part of the games.

It's probably unlikely that a ticket for "Men's Handball--Georgia vs. Guatemala -- 2:30pm" would be a specific request; but "Lake Michigan Sports Complex - All Access (General Admission to 2 Events) - 2:00pm-7:00pm" would probably sell out pretty easily.

And, given the common entrance ways, the concentration of venues, the short hallways, and other aspects of the site plan, it looks like a plausible arrangement to my eyes. Modern ticket scanning could account for the need to maintain attendance at each match--maybe even limiting the number of events attended or the times the ticket is value. McCormick seems to be billed as a single venue supporting several concurrent sports (and different sports at different times in the same location)--rather than as multiple venues sharing the same roof.

I guess getting back to a discussion about the actual bids plans--What are the other bids doing to attract spectators and attention to the less popular sports?

CHItown '16

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Don't want to continue this off-topic discussion, but... so the idea is like having ground passes for Tennis events (which I think they also have for Archery and Field Hockey at the Games)? These passes give you a reserved seat at the main stadium and access (but not a reserved seat) to all the smaller stadiums. Or sometimes they just include all the smaller courts.

With McCormick place (or any other large convention centers that may host someday), the pass wouldn't be restricted to just one sport.

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Don't want to continue this off-topic discussion, but... so the idea is like having ground passes for Tennis events (which I think they also have for Archery and Field Hockey at the Games)? These passes give you a reserved seat at the main stadium and access (but not a reserved seat) to all the smaller stadiums. Or sometimes they just include all the smaller courts.

With McCormick place (or any other large convention centers that may host someday), the pass wouldn't be restricted to just one sport.

It sounds like a reasonable description. The idea from almost the start (back in the US bid phase) was to concentrate the less popular sports to give them same building exposure to the press and broadcast centers (if it's a down time--for instance a rain delay--the press can just walk down the hall and cover Boxing, Judo, Handball, and/or Rhythmic Gymnastics or send their spare camera crew to the Fencing medal round, for instance). S3 is the event producer of Lollapalooza and a prospective producer for the Chicago 2016; McCormick Place is the location of about a dozen of these sports and a host to dozens of multi-building conventions--so, it's not as though a common pass is a huge conceptual leap for the people or the facilities involved.

I guess to bring this back to a bid discussion--my question was how are the other bids promoting cross traffic and spectator interest in the less popular sports and/or between countries that are far from having a home field advantage?

CHItown '16

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As for TV audiences, you can't force them to watch sports that they don't care for...just like you can't force posters here to stay on topic.

That's the whole point of TV..the viewer has control over what he watches. The 'day-access' pass might be good...but see the pricing will be crazy because NOT all days will have the same number of events to choose from. Also, most of the seats are going to be reserved, i.e., numbered seats, so how do you accommodate the 'wandering access-holders'?

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As for TV audiences, you can't force them to watch sports that they don't care for...just like you can't force posters here to stay on topic.

That's the whole point of TV..the viewer has control over what he watches. The 'day-access' pass might be good...but see the pricing will be crazy because NOT all days will have the same number of events to choose from. Also, most of the seats are going to be reserved, i.e., numbered seats, so how do you accommodate the 'wandering access-holders'?

With most people watching the network feed (NBC / EBC) rather than pay per view or online, the networks still have a lot of autonomy to decide what events to cover and how they cover them. Having them nearby just makes their stories easier to find and their competitions easier to follow. Maybe there's not much interest in the NBC profile of the top Estonian weightlifters but he gets a few minutes because, while waiting in line for a pizza, he happened to ask a segment producer where he could find a Chicago-style hot dog in the building.

Admittedly, open access passes always leave inequities in the quality and interest-level of that time period of that event (whether its sporting events, concerts, plays, or any other public performance). By 2016, Chicago residents will be very well versed in how open access passes work and wouldn't be too bothered if they realize that they paid the same for a day of prelims when significant medal rounds are the next day. Face value on bleacher seats at Wrigley, for instance, are pretty level whether a good team or an awful team is in the visitors' dugout (or for that matter, whether the Cubs are in contention or heading for an early vacation) since they were set before the season started. I'd also imagine most people carrying those types of passes would be more experience spectators rather than people who know the rulebooks and when to cheer and when to shout about an official and can pick out the national stars of each particular sport--and wouldn't be too bothered to know that the particular sports' top players are playing 3 hours after they leave.

And there are many ways of accommodating general admission/open access seating alongside reserved seating--different sections, timed entries (validate your reservation on-site within 20 minutes of the time on the ticket, for instance), reservation trade-backs at the box office, smart kiosks to flag eligible events with available seating, day of reservations, seat bidding, etc. But, this is really just more speculation. This is far too early to think through ticketing policy for an event that may not even occur.

CHItown '16

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