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What You Must Know About Rio´s Bid


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Rio is already a expensive place to live. This can be one of the reason for the creation of slums or shantytowns in the past. For example, Leblon beach is the 20th most expensive place to live in the world.

I believe the process Spain lived will not be the same in Brazil. Different cultures, different economies... Things in Brazil works in another way.

Of course, two huge events in a row in Brazil is a window of opportunities to increase jobs and make some significant changes. No doubt about this: SOG and WC will help the economic booming of Brazil.

But I'm not silly to believe that Olympic Games or World Cup will transform Brazil in 6, 7 years (SAVE THIS!!!)... By I'm sure it can boost some changes we are living since the 90s... But Brazil's problems will no disappear like magic.

Well, Brazil has developed so much in last few years that even without any of both events, the process won't stop in any case. I was just wondering if the process will slow down or get boosted, as it's not just a matter of home pricing, but also all the corporation challenges in a global market. I think it is scary that a single city can host the 20th most expensive area and one of the biggest slums on Earth; I know it's not the only one in world, for sure, but it is the only one bidding for a SOG.

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Well, Brazil has developed so much in last few years that even without any of both events, the process won't stop in any case. I was just wondering if the process will slow down or get boosted, as it's not just a matter of home pricing, but also all the corporation challenges in a global market. I think it is scary that a single city can host the 20th most expensive area and one of the biggest slums on Earth; I know it's not the only one in world, for sure, but it is the only one bidding for a SOG.

Beijing have these constrasts too... It wasn't a big deal for them. China and Brazil, in economics, are similar in different proportions, of course.

I don't see it as a big deal, but as a window of opportunities - we all must see those things as opportunities...

I have not the exact data from Cape Town, but during the Confederations Cup, they showed on TV something similar to Rio reality...

Mo Rush can explain us better. But, I have no big knowledge about South African economy or social issues (<--- THIS MUST BE THE BEHAVIOR, TROLLS)

And we all know that Cape Town is becoming a stonger bidder for the near future...

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Beijing have these constrasts too... It wasn't a big deal for them. China and Brazil, in economics, are similar in different proportions, of course.

I don't see it as a big deal, but as a window of opportunities - we all must see those things as opportunities...

I have not the exact data from Cape Town, but during the Confederations Cup, they showed on TV something similar to Rio reality...

Mo Rush can explain us better. But, I have no big knowledge about South African economy or social issues (<--- THIS MUST BE THE BEHAVIOR, TROLLS)

And we all know that Cape Town is becoming a stonger bidder for the near future...

That's why I always defended the Olympics as a big time for host in order to launch themselves internationally and get profit of every new window open. Touristically, Chicago and Madrid will be the most benefitted ones. Economically, Rio will also be boosted... but also challenged. Tokyo will stay the same in any case.

I have been in Capetown several times and there's poverty also in the metropolitan area and I think it would be a very similar situation to Brazil. Even Madrid, Chicago have their own type of slums, but this is not the point, actually. What I meant was about the strong imbalance that appears to be in a society like Brazilian, specially in Rio area. We can't deny that there are serious issues of crime, lack of security in more areas (in proportion) as any other city bidding, and this is not the problem itself, but the reflection of a deeper matter for a big part of the inhabitants of the society, which maybe won't feel confortable to accept that their own progress will come later than planned because of two big events.

I wish I could express better myself in English, but hopefully you will get the point :)

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Supporters of a Rio Olympics should note that London's 2012 bid suddenly started being violently criticised by a handful of posters on here as the Singapore meeting drew closer - people can sense that the momentum is with Rio at the moment - the supporters of other bids are just getting frustrated and using anything and everything to criticise the city.

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Supporters of a Rio Olympics should note that London's 2012 bid suddenly started being violently criticised by a handful of posters on here as the Singapore meeting drew closer - people can sense that the momentum is with Rio at the moment - the supporters of other bids are just getting frustrated and using anything and everything to criticise the city.

Please, don't generalize. It's so tipically Brit...! I support Madrid, but I can perfectly see that Rio is on the top spot in this race right now and I'm interested enough in discussing strong and weak points of the bid.

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Supporters of a Rio Olympics should note that London's 2012 bid suddenly started being violently criticised by a handful of posters on here as the Singapore meeting drew closer - people can sense that the momentum is with Rio at the moment - the supporters of other bids are just getting frustrated and using anything and everything to criticise the city.

I frankly don't understand why with a London 2012 bid you have pretty much a very full plate of venues to construct and London won While Rio presently has many of these same venues sitting on the ground thanks to the Pan Am Games yet people complain about RIO's Bid . It seems to me the old Auto race way being converted to this olympic park with a number of Venues already there is a far cry from what London 2012 has had to do for their games.

Maybe the momentum is with Rio and it is getting the better of people supporting other bids. The Articles I have read the other day with Regards to the will of Jacques Rogge was expressed by the IOc in regards to Golf and Rugby being on the future sports for 2016 agenda in October. The AFP reported that 60 percent favored softball way above golf but Rogges consolidation of power had people support Golf as Rogge's will . If this happens with Rogge's will in October with the 2016 bid then Rio will be awarded as the man has stated many times the desire to go to South America , Africa and an Islamic Nation in the very near future.

Dick Pound shared an interesting prospective on Toronto 1996's failure . Pound said that the IOC knew there were city councilors and the public against the bid and theat he felt from the Inside of the IOC membership killed Toronto 1996 . If that is the case then Chicago 2016 with a councilor demanding laws be past fro restrictions on the ultimate spending on the Games by Chicago coupled with the No games people and a powerful taxpayers rights group Chicago 2016 may be indeed doomed to lose to Rio 2016.

Jim jones

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RIO LEGACY FOR 2016 IS MORE DEBT... What a Wonderful City

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Troll

Dude get over with it, no ones care about the debt now, it's all focused on getting the games, debts can be solved later if there will be any. The US has the worlds biggest debt nd guess what? It still at the top!

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Supporters of a Rio Olympics should note that London's 2012 bid suddenly started being violently criticised by a handful of posters on here as the Singapore meeting drew closer - people can sense that the momentum is with Rio at the moment - the supporters of other bids are just getting frustrated and using anything and everything to criticise the city.

BS, utter Rogge uttered London almost everyone here (including many Brits) thought it would be Paris.

This posters criticisms are valid, if not articulated well.

His first point seems to be:

Brazil is still a poverty stricken country, with heavy crime issues and lawlessness in many areas. The money that the government is willing to spend on a Rio de Janeiro games would be better suited to providing for solutions to the many problems Brazil faces.

Secondly he seems to point forward that the money being concentrated on Rio de Janeiro, already one of the most developed areas of Brazil, is ill-advised and the development should be spread throughout Brazil to uniformly raise the level of living and social well-being.

Finally he says that Rio's model will only result in debt, Athens, the example some continue to put forward, made nothing, was debt ridden and will have consequences for the Greek economy for at least the next decade. Montreal had reverberating consequences on Quebec for 3 decades and Rio could just as easily follow in this path.

Its obviously a desirable thing to have the Olympic Movement spread and directly reach more people but it must be done in a responsible manner. Just 5 years ago Rio de Janeiro was deemed unsuitable to host the Olympics and now they are the favourite, things don't chance that quickly.

I am generally indifferent to who wins, I am realistic enough to know that my preferred candidate of Tokyo is an unlikely.

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BS, utter Rogge uttered London almost everyone here (including many Brits) thought it would be Paris.

This posters criticisms are valid, if not articulated well.

His first point seems to be:

Brazil is still a poverty stricken country,

Other guy who DOES NOT KNOW NOTHING about Brazilian reality...

poverty strickn country...

same debt as Greece...

You must be kidding me...

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RIO LEGACY FOR 2016 IS MORE DEBT... What a Wonderful City

By

Troll

Check how much Rio de Janeiro state and Brazilian Federal Govt earns in taxes per year and then come talk to me about debts...

WE'RE NOT GREECE... Rio de Janeiro's GDP is bigger than whole Greece one.

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Other guy who DOES NOT KNOW NOTHING about Brazilian reality...

poverty strickn country...

same debt as Greece...

You must be kidding me...

You seem to know nothing of your own country, since you own government says 31% of your fellow Brazilians live below the poverty line. That is 1 in 3 Brazilians are living in poverty. Or 62 million of your country men and women. So don't spot bullsh!t that Brazil does not have a poverty problem.

And I didn't say that Brazil has the same debt as Greece (you have considerably more), but when you are spending 50 billion USD, there is no way in hell that the investment will break even and the government will be financing the games through the national budget and there is no certainty that the national budget from 2010 to 2016 will be even or in surplus if Brazil is to be given the games.

Get your head out of the nationalistic sand and realize that Brazil is a developing country, not a developed country. It has a very low per capita GDP, has high rates of poverty and crime and is not in a position to provide for the games the same way the United States, Spain or Japan can.

The bid from Rio de Janeiro was ranked 5th of 7 based on the application report and was pushed through as a result of straddling the line and the IOC being unwilling to allow the games into the late September to early October time frame that was proposed by Doha. The bid, the city and the country has problems and it does you nor your fellow countrymen any good by shoving your head in the sand and pretending everything is alright.

I was in Brazil in May, I have been to Rio, Sao Paolo and Belo Horizonte, I have seen first hand the problems Brazil faces and the promise the country has but your attitude will only achieve the same disaster that befell Argentina and other countries that never achieved the potential they had by people partying while the country was burning.

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The poverty argument seems undeniable and I'd agree in many ways with Faster that it's, at the very least, a thorn in Rio's side. Supporters of Rio have to at least acknoledge this, even if they think it's not relevent to their bid and what it promises.

The debt quesstion is tricker though because debt in itself isn't inherently a bad thing. If you want to break even or make a profit, Brazil's blanket guarantees model is not the way of going about that. But if that's not your prime concern, does it matter if a games - and the associated infrastructure - doesn't break even for 10, 20 or 30 years? If Rio is left with a good long-term legacy it may deem this worth paying for over decades, and that's for them to decide. That's why it is so important to get the long-term stuff right, otherwise you've got a debt and nothing to show for it.

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You seem to know nothing of your own country, since you own government says 31% of your fellow Brazilians live below the poverty line. That is 1 in 3 Brazilians are living in poverty. Or 62 million of your country men and women. So don't spot bullsh!t that Brazil does not have a poverty problem.

Not claiming to know anything about Brazil, your figures sounded odd to me.

After checking Wikipedia (definatelly, a debatable source), I found this:

"A study on the subject [5] shows that the poor segment constitutes roughly one third of the population, and the extremely poor make out 13% (2005 figures). However, the same study shows the income growth of the poorest 20% population segment to be almost in par with China, while the richest 10% are stagnating."

So I would say that 13% of the people (all right, a considerable amount) live below the poverty line (2005 figures). Not 31%.

And I also remember somebody saying here that more than 50% of their population is middle class.

Can anyone clarify this better? Are there more recent numbers? They seem to be improving, but I can't prove with number.

cheers.

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You seem to know nothing of your own country, since you own government says 31% of your fellow Brazilians live below the poverty line.

Are you crazy?

FOR POVERTY (NOT ONLY BELOW POVERTY LINE)...

...2007 official numbers says poors in Brazil are 18% of entire population... And it's estimated the numbers reached 16% for 2009.

For 2008, 53% are in the middle class and about 20% are rich as the european and american riches...

http://www.agenciabrasil.gov.br/noticias/2...8932327295/view - Official Press Agency of Brazilian Federal Govt.

We live in Brazil, we can see and feel how Brazil is improving socially, we can see clearly how favelas are becoming better places.

I have do admit, the violence is still a problem, but if equality gets better, so violence should get lower numbers

Please, don't start a discussion here with those old visions of Brazil, based in the 1980's...

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And I didn't say that Brazil has the same debt as Greece (you have considerably more)...

1- Ok, take the 50 billion USD number and the USD 1 trillion earned in taxes per year (7 years, 7 trillion) This I'm saying here was shown by Brazilian Central Bank president to IOC and NO QUESTIONS about money was made during entire IOC Evaluation Comission visit to Rio...

Money is granted for SOG (public and sponsored), and 75% of Brazilians agrees to spend huge money with SOG. We know this money will came back in tourism, media return and putting Brazil on world map definitively.

2- Brazil is a developing country as China... Their GDP per capita are far worst than Brazil's and they have serious problems with human rights, they have hungry in rural zones and poor people, they invaded Tibet and killed their culture, China have censored media, pirates products and a lot of problems... So c'mon, based in your comments: if China can have SOG, Brazil can twice...

And please: never any Rio supporter HERE denied the fact USA, Japan (and less Spain) has more conditions to host the SOG than Brazil. We are not crazy.

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The poverty argument seems undeniable and I'd agree in many ways with Faster that it's, at the very least, a thorn in Rio's side. Supporters of Rio have to at least acknoledge this, even if they think it's not relevent to their bid and what it promises.

Dear Rob

We, from Rio, can discuss everything about Rio and Brazil like favelas, poor people, crime rate, transportation.

We never said Rio is perfect. Otherwise, we believe that with SOG Rio can boost the changes Brazil is achieving.

But people here says anything they think they know about Brazil, and say things like "Brazil is a poor country" - How can Brazil be a poor country with a USD 2 trillion GDP? Brazil is a developing country of Rio is full of favelas... It seems entire Rio is a huge favela. Less than 16% live in favelas in Rio...

All the comments made by foreigners and some Sao Paulo-Rio haters here are not accurate!!!

Developing means that we are facing our problems, getting a better HDI (Brazil 0,810s/Rio 0,870s - high standard), crime rate in Rio and in Brazil are getting lower number (Rio has the lowest crime rate in 17 years - it is still high in suburbs).

But people here can only points the bad things of a complex, rich and full of things country like Brazil... And yes, we get mad.

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Less than 16% live in favelas in Rio...

That's a huge number. It really is. So that doesn't calm my the concerns at all.

But I'm not one of those who says, because there are poor people Rio shouldn't host. So don't worry on that front.

I'm one of those who says, if Rio hosts it ought to have a long-term positive impact for everyone. If this is seen to be acheived it will ease the feeling of discomfort many of us share at seeing a sporting extravaganza in a city with such contrasts in wealth.

So whilst I wouldn't rule Rio out because of its slums, nor will I ignore Rio's biggest problems as how they are dealt with will determine how much I can and will support a Rio Games. I don't think that's an unfair stance.

That said I do and always have supported Chicago, so all this is hopefully only hyopthetical from my point of view. ^_^

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Not claiming to know anything about Brazil, your figures sounded odd to me.

After checking Wikipedia (definatelly, a debatable source), I found this:

"A study on the subject [B) shows that the poor segment constitutes roughly one third of the population[/b], and the extremely poor make out 13% (2005 figures). However, the same study shows the income growth of the poorest 20% population segment to be almost in par with China, while the richest 10% are stagnating."

So I would say that 13% of the people (all right, a considerable amount) live below the poverty line (2005 figures). Not 31%.

And I also remember somebody saying here that more than 50% of their population is middle class.

Can anyone clarify this better? Are there more recent numbers? They seem to be improving, but I can't prove with number.

cheers.

Are you crazy?

FOR POVERTY (NOT ONLY BELOW POVERTY LINE)...

...2007 official numbers says poors in Brazil are 18% of entire population... And it's estimated the numbers reached 16% for 2009.

For 2008, 53% are in the middle class and about 20% are rich as the european and american riches...

http://www.agenciabrasil.gov.br/noticias/2...8932327295/view - Official Press Agency of Brazilian Federal Govt.

We live in Brazil, we can see and feel how Brazil is improving socially, we can see clearly how favelas are becoming better places.

I have do admit, the violence is still a problem, but if equality gets better, so violence should get lower numbers

Please, don't start a discussion here with those old visions of Brazil, based in the 1980's...

Both of you need to give your head a shack. Developed countries like Canada and the UK have poverty rates in the 10 to 15% range, there is no way Brazil is in that category. Official government and WTO statistics show that Brazil has 31% of their population under the poverty line, just because things are improving does not mean that currently 1/3rd of your country lives from hand to mouth.

And Ken 13% is extreme poverty, read what you posted, it says 1/3rd is 'poor' aka in poverty. Funny how your own posts discredit your statements.

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First of all, I would love to see Rio host, but I think they just need to wait a decade or two to get things in order more. Why do they need to host just 2 years after World Cup?

I see many of you are comparing Rio to Beijing, and trying to make it sound good. In my opinion, Beijing was not a good example for how to host. They built walls on their streets to hide the poor, much like Rio has done in the favelas. Both countries have a big problem in disproportionate wealth. Sure, Rio looks nice in photos, but behind the pictures is a very ugly Brazil that needs to improve before the world is invited to come in.

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Walls to hide favela people in Rio... So the walls must have 500, 600 meters high... NONSENSE!

WHERE DID YOU GUYS TAKE THE 31% NUMBER???? NOBODY POSTED THE SOURCE UNTIL NOW...

I agree it depends on what is considered below poverty line... But I'm sure that's in southeastern region of Brazil (the richest one), where Rio is placed, the number must be lower then...

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If 20% of Brazil is poor it means 35 million people... An entire Canada or Argentina of poor people... It's a lot of people, and as Brazilian I can say it probably the real number. But you guys that visited Brazil once or never visited wants to deny all numbers, and Brazilian's comments...

If I put all these people together you will say "you're lying"

What's the problem here?

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https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...ok/geos/br.html

BRAZIL

Population - 198,739,269 (est.)

Population below poverty line - 31% (2005)

= 61.38 million live in poverty

UNITED STATES

Population - 307,212,123 (July 2009 est.)

Population below poverty line - 12% (2004 est.)

= 36.84 million live in poverty

SPAIN

Population - 40,525,002 (July 2009 est.)

Population below poverty line - 19.8% (2005)

= 7.92 million live in poverty

JAPAN

Population - 127,078,679 (July 2009 est.)

Population below poverty line - NA%

= NA%

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Well, Thomas...

Before just opening CIA "fact"book... why don't you try to research a bit more? If you did so, you would find out that people under the poverty line has decreased in Brazil from 35% in 1993 to 19,31% in 2006.

Despite the international crisis, this number is still decreasing... don't try to use 2005 numbers to talk about a 2009 dispute. Besides that, what really matters is that we are adressing the problem... it's pretty obvious that we have more poor people here than in the US, SPAIN or JAPAN (altought u should be ashamed to be the world superpower and still have 12% (using ur numbers) under the poverty line). A chance for Rio to host the Olympics will only help Brazilian government adress this problem.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...ok/geos/br.html

BRAZIL

Population - 198,739,269 (est.)

Population below poverty line - 31% (2005)

= 61.38 million live in poverty

UNITED STATES

Population - 307,212,123 (July 2009 est.)

Population below poverty line - 12% (2004 est.)

= 36.84 million live in poverty

SPAIN

Population - 40,525,002 (July 2009 est.)

Population below poverty line - 19.8% (2005)

= 7.92 million live in poverty

JAPAN

Population - 127,078,679 (July 2009 est.)

Population below poverty line - NA%

= NA%

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Well, Thomas...

Before just opening CIA "fact"book... why don't you try to research a bit more? If you did so, you would find out that people under the poverty line has decreased in Brazil from 35% in 1993 to 19,31% in 2006.

Despite the international crisis, this number is still decreasing... don't try to use 2005 numbers to talk about a 2009 dispute. Besides that, what really matters is that we are adressing the problem... it's pretty obvious that we have more poor people here than in the US, SPAIN or JAPAN (altought u should be ashamed to be the world superpower and still have 12% (using ur numbers) under the poverty line). A chance for Rio to host the Olympics will only help Brazilian government adress this problem.

Thorbr I wonder how many home owners in Brazil have had to residences foreclosed on in the past two years? I also wonder if anyone in Brazil loses their home to illness like they do in the Richest country in the world with a poverty rate claimed to be 12 percent here. Over 40 million without health insurance and the ones who do have it can look forward to 1500 dollar and up deductibles or worst havign Private investigators trying to find any excuse to cancel the Health insurance policy. One Woman in America had her claim for Breast cancer denied because the insurer found out she used a certain brand of Acme Cream when she was a teenager.

jim jones

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