Henrique Valverde Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 I can´t sit here, and watch some brazilians saying: "Rio is wonderful, Rio is the best city, Pan American Games were amazing...". Let´s say the true: Rio should not receive the games. In Brazil, serious journalists, knows that Pan American Games were a disaster. Government body waste a LOT of money on it, and after the games there was no legacy to the city. I mean, Rio is beautiful...but despite some people trying to paint the city as a tropical heaven, I can tell you: a city with the problems that Rio has, can´t host such a big event. It´s not only about security and poverty: 1. Brazilian crowd don´t know how to behave in some sport events: I remember in Pan-American Games, before men's 100m, the crowd was doing so much noise, that some sprinters had to ask to them to make silence...but they did not. In horizontal bars in gymastics event, the Brazilian Mosiah Rodrigues was leading the competition. Only the American Justin Spring could get ahead...them whem he was doing his exercises, the crowd booed, expecting him to fall, and he did it ! How can a gymnast perform his exercise under boos coming from the crowd ? Galvão Bueno, the most famous brazilian narrator said after the games: "Brazilians have to know how to behave in some events". Imagine if you see things like that hapenning in Olympics... 2- Avarage Brazilian people don´t like sports: That´s the true. The chance that we will see empty venues, is enormous. Brazilians only go to see events where there is brazilian with chance of getting a gold medal. In last year Volleyball World League in Rio, "Maracanazinho" was full to watch 3rd place match between Brazil and Russia. The same Maracazinho was empty to the 1st place game, scheduled immediately after that. Galvão Bueno also said later: "Brazilian should know to apreciate the sport. Its sad that after the brazilian team's game, everybody went home and did not see the amazing game between USA and Serbia". 3- Rio´s bid proposed venues are the worst: Before the beginning of Pan-American Games, I was checking the sites of the candidates cities, I was frustrated with the Rio proposed venues. Rio doesn´t even has an Olympic Stadium. The opening a closing ceremony are supposed to be in Maracanã, and the Athletics (Track & Field) are going to Joao Havelange Statium. But, you never had an Olympic Game without an Olympic Stadium. It´s a tradition: Athletics and the ceremonies at the same stadium. It´s like London putting the opening and closing cerimony in Wembley, and Madrid in Santiago Bernabéu and schedulling Athletics to another stadium. It´s sad that Brazilian Olympic Committee just don´t realise that an Olympic Game is not a Pan-American Game. 4- Brazil can´t waste money: I understand that many people here support Brazil´s bid, maybe because they don´t live here as I do. It must be really nice to come to Brazil on vacation, stay here a couple of days, and return back do Europe, Australia. People who will stay here after the games, live with so many problems, and with corrupt politicians. Brazil is hosting 2014 World Cup where government body will waste a huge amount of money, and after that I´m afraid that we will not be able to afford the "Rio 2016" thing. 5- and finally, I really hope that in the future it will all change, but a country that don´t even support the national sport and atheletes don´t deserve to host a major sport event like Olympics. Sorry for my english, Henrique Valverde from Brazil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 The points you are posting here were all answered.. .Nothing new... But, just again: 0- NEVER PanAm Games transformed a city or made some transportation or infra-structure legacy to any city. Read it: NEVER!!!!!!! This things about legacy and transformation of Rio was invented by Cesar Maia, mayor of Rio at that time, and only ingenous people believed in that... Did you ever watch any PanAms? Host cities only refubishes some existing stadium and host the games. Rio was the first to built sports centers for that. And it's huge legacy when talking about PanAms. 1- During Confederations Cup in Germany 2005, german people booed everything, including their own authorities... In Athens 2004, US team were booed at Opening Ceremony... But if it's in Europe, ok, uh? Booes was not invented in Brazil, and we all know that the lesson was learned... Mass media in Brazil asked for public stop booing, and in the final days of gimnastic things changed. I WAS THERE! 2- Empty stadiums are always a problem everywhere when non-local teams plays... What can we say about Athens volley final match Brazil v Italy??? Don't you remember? And in Beijing chinese govt asked people to fill in stadium... Again, it's not happen only in Brazil. 3- The Maracana issue is a weak point of Rio's bid. I don't like it too... But the venues-technical video and proposal of Rio boosted Rio chances. No doubts here at this forum that Rio is one of the favourites. 4- Federal Govt will earn US$ 1 trillion in taxes... Yeah... trillion... in 2009. If Rio games cost US$ 50 billion (that's probably the real number) it's not a issue for Brazil... Will be 7 years to spent money... or US$ 7 trillion in taxes... Ah! Olympic Games are not PanAms and a part of this money really can come from sponsors, partners and IOC (IOC is also not Odepa). 5- Australia became a olympic power just after receiving the right of hosting 2000 Olympic Games, we hope a victory of Rio could change this things. Henrique, all of this was discussed here... Please, don't post useless topics anymore... And say you are from Sao Paulo too... We know you hate Rio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 The points you are posting here were all answered.. .Nothing new...But, just again: 0- NEVER PanAm Games transformed a city or made some transportation or infra-structure legacy to any city. Read it: NEVER!!!!!!! This things about legacy and transformation of Rio was invented by Cesar Maia, mayor of Rio at that time, and only ingenous people believed in that... Did you ever watch any PanAms? Host cities only refubishes some existing stadium and host the games. Rio was the first to built sports centers for that. And it's huge legacy when talking about PanAms. 1- During Confederations Cup in Germany 2005, german people booed everything, including their own authorities... In Athens 2004, US team were booed at Opening Ceremony... But if it's in Europe, ok, uh? Booes was not invented in Brazil, and we all know that the lesson was learned... Mass media in Brazil asked for public stop booing, and in the final days of gimnastic things changed. I WAS THERE! 2- Empty stadiums are always a problem everywhere when non-local teams plays... What can we say about Athens volley final match Brazil v Italy??? Don't you remember? And in Beijing chinese govt asked people to fill in stadium... Again, it's not happen only in Brazil. 3- The Maracana issue is a weak point of Rio's bid. I don't like it too... But the venues-technical video and proposal of Rio boosted Rio chances. No doubts here at this forum that Rio is one of the favourites. 4- Federal Govt will earn US$ 1 trillion in taxes... Yeah... trillion... in 2009. If Rio games cost US$ 50 billion (that's probably the real number) it's not a issue for Brazil... Will be 7 years to spent money... or US$ 7 trillion in taxes... Ah! Olympic Games are not PanAms and a part of this money really can come from sponsors, partners and IOC (IOC is also not Odepa). 5- Australia became a olympic power just after receiving the right of hosting 2000 Olympic Games, we hope a victory of Rio could change this things. Henrique, all of this was discussed here... Please, don't post useless topics anymore... And say you are from Sao Paulo too... We know you hate Rio. Maybe all of this was discussed here and answered, but, if what was answered here before was what you pointed, then the answers were all wrong: 1- One thing is boo in a football match, because its normal to make noises all game long. Another thing is make noises before the 100m spring, or during a gymnastic event. Whem the american was booed, it was in the LAST day of competition...so I don´t know if things had changed as you said. Many brazilians said at that time: "I don´t mind, if it is to help Brazil to get gold medal, I will boo doesn´t matter what people say..." 2- Always a problem ? Haha, just remember the games at Sydney and Beijing....Athens was a disaster in therms of local audience, but the final between Brazil and Italy, was far from empty, maybe it wasn´t completely full, but it wasn´t empty as the match between USA and Serbia last year. I remember that IOC was concerned with the lack of public in the events. This is really a problem, that doesn´t happen everywhere as you said. If Athens was bad, here it will be worst. 3- Now with only 4 candidates, I don´t know if there is a city that can´t be appointed as favourite...and there is no doubt that the Maracanã issue is a problem with Rios´bid, and it WILL count in IOC´s final decision. 4- I don´t know what you have in your mind...how can you live in the country that we do, and say that spending US$ 50 billion with one single city, to host a sport event is not a issue to Brazil ? Gimme a break... 5- Definetly you don´t know about olympic history....Australia used to get gold in every Olympics since 1948. Sometime 4, sometimes 8, 7. You can´t compare Brazil with Australia. Brazil in last 7 Oympics, (1984-2008) took 14 Gold medals, total of 69. Australia in 7 Olympics before receiving the right of hosting 2000 Olympic Games, (1968-1992) took 24 Gold, total of 113 medals. It would be worst if I had compared with more previous games...Australia had the foundations. Don´t be fool if you imagine that hosting Oympic games, means becoming an Olympic power. Just see Greece, and Spain... And please, dont´t be fool neither to think that Brazil is only about Rio and São Paulo, I´m a journalist from Brasilia, and just love Rio de Janeiro...I'm pretty excited with World Cup in Brazil, in 2014. But Rio is not a city to host an event like Olympics. It´s sad that the BOC always try with Rio, Rio, Rio...If they would like to see Brazil hosting Olympics, the should have choosen Curitiba, or Porto Alegre, Florianópolis and make a good project, not this "Pan American-Olympics" thing...but it´s only about politics, isn't it ? final...don´t be fool to imagine that Rio 2016 is coming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I will let the Brazilians fight this one out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cauê Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Oh god... more one troll... Every day a new troll against Rio... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cauê Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Henrique, you are fake of any member? Oh God... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Oh god... more one troll...Every day a new troll against Rio... and you really look like a typical "brasileirinho"... , it´s sad that our country is full of folks that sometimes use only their hearts instead their brains...or maybe you are a Nuzmans´friends, who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Henrique, you are fake of any member?Oh God... If there are many trolls against Rio, there must be something wrong with this bid, I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cauê Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 If there are many trolls against Rio, there must be something wrong with this bid, I guess... No troll, is afraid of Rio win. Other question, you are paulista troll, american troll... other Baron troll... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I´m not a troll, I only know the trolls in Lord of The Rings trilogy and RPG games... I'm not interested in helping Chicago, Madrid or Japan. I just want the best for my country, and I can´t stand people saying that it´s fair Brazil to wasting 50 billion dollars do picture a Rio as a Wonderful city, when we all know that near from the Olympic events there will be a parallel State, controlled by drug traders, wearing gold shotguns...why you don´t use this money to invest in the public heath ? In the public education ? In the national sport ? Our gymnasts have to sell t-shirts to keep them going on competitions. I have a frind of mine, that its a skater, but she could not go to world championship, because the federation had no money to afford the trip. People should wonder, if Brazil need to host an Olympics NOW, or if will be good for us. Some guys only want to satisfied their own egos: "...ho ho, I live in a caountry that host the Olympics, I love my country..."....Cmon. But, Cristo Redentor is right over there, looking after the so called Wonderful City, and He must know that the games can´t be here. I'm sure He will know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cauê Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 OK troll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorabilia Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I'm not interested in helping Chicago, Madrid or Japan. I just want the best for my country, and I can´t stand people saying that it´s fair Brazil to wasting 50 billion dollars do picture a Rio as a Wonderful city, when we all know that near from the Olympic events there will be a parallel State, controlled by drug traders, wearing gold shotguns...why you don´t use this money to invest in the public heath ? In the public education ? In the national sport ?Our gymnasts have to sell t-shirts to keep them going on competitions. I have a frind of mine, that its a skater, but she could not go to world championship, because the federation had no money to afford the trip. People should wonder, if Brazil need to host an Olympics NOW, or if will be good for us. Some guys only want to satisfied their own egos: "...ho ho, I live in a caountry that host the Olympics, I love my country..."....Cmon. When we read you, it looks like you were opposed to any Olympic Games everywhere in the world.... and you looks like you don't know how Olympic Games are working and how capital investments are used for the development of a city and a country ! And finally, regarding your Gymnast selling T-Shirts... but this is the same everywhere around the world.... When i was a young gymnast in a suburb of Paris, my mothers twice a year was cooking cakes to be sold on a market to finance the transport of our teams to some competition... and I know a lot of sport's club or local football team that do the same or find some other solutions than sponsorship or subsidies to live !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim jones Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I can´t sit here, and watch some brazilians saying: "Rio is wonderful, Rio is the best city, Pan American Games were amazing...".Let´s say the true: Rio should not receive the games. In Brazil, serious journalists, knows that Pan American Games were a disaster. Government body waste a LOT of money on it, and after the games there was no legacy to the city. I mean, Rio is beautiful...but despite some people trying to paint the city as a tropical heaven, I can tell you: a city with the problems that Rio has, can´t host such a big event. It´s not only about security and poverty: 1. Brazilian crowd don´t know how to behave in some sport events: I remember in Pan-American Games, before men's 100m, the crowd was doing so much noise, that some sprinters had to ask to them to make silence...but they did not. In horizontal bars in gymastics event, the Brazilian Mosiah Rodrigues was leading the competition. Only the American Justin Spring could get ahead...them whem he was doing his exercises, the crowd booed, expecting him to fall, and he did it ! How can a gymnast perform his exercise under boos coming from the crowd ? Galvão Bueno, the most famous brazilian narrator said after the games: "Brazilians have to know how to behave in some events". Imagine if you see things like that hapenning in Olympics... 2- Avarage Brazilian people don´t like sports: That´s the true. The chance that we will see empty venues, is enormous. Brazilians only go to see events where there is brazilian with chance of getting a gold medal. In last year Volleyball World League in Rio, "Maracanazinho" was full to watch 3rd place match between Brazil and Russia. The same Maracazinho was empty to the 1st place game, scheduled immediately after that. Galvão Bueno also said later: "Brazilian should know to apreciate the sport. Its sad that after the brazilian team's game, everybody went home and did not see the amazing game between USA and Serbia". 3- Rio´s bid proposed venues are the worst: Before the beginning of Pan-American Games, I was checking the sites of the candidates cities, I was frustrated with the Rio proposed venues. Rio doesn´t even has an Olympic Stadium. The opening a closing ceremony are supposed to be in Maracanã, and the Athletics (Track & Field) are going to Joao Havelange Statium. But, you never had an Olympic Game without an Olympic Stadium. It´s a tradition: Athletics and the ceremonies at the same stadium. It´s like London putting the opening and closing cerimony in Wembley, and Madrid in Santiago Bernabéu and schedulling Athletics to another stadium. It´s sad that Brazilian Olympic Committee just don´t realise that an Olympic Game is not a Pan-American Game. 4- Brazil can´t waste money: I understand that many people here support Brazil´s bid, maybe because they don´t live here as I do. It must be really nice to come to Brazil on vacation, stay here a couple of days, and return back do Europe, Australia. People who will stay here after the games, live with so many problems, and with corrupt politicians. Brazil is hosting 2014 World Cup where government body will waste a huge amount of money, and after that I´m afraid that we will not be able to afford the "Rio 2016" thing. 5- and finally, I really hope that in the future it will all change, but a country that don´t even support the national sport and atheletes don´t deserve to host a major sport event like Olympics. Sorry for my english, Henrique Valverde from Brazil. Well point number one . The great Oscar Schmidt actually took part in this type of un sportsman like conduct during the Pan Am 2007 shooting competition with other Brazilians trying to distract Linda Thom the long time Canadian shooter. Hopefully the hostile behavior would not be in place for a World wide broadcast event like the summer olympics. It certainly does make Brazil look good. Point two - well considering Brazil's place in the sporting world you would never know it. It may be selected sports like Soccer that Brazilians like but there seems to be an increase in the popularity of Basketball with young Brazilians playing in the NBA. Point three- I would not have such a self lofting attitude in regards to Venues in Rio if I was a Brazilian. The new Shooting Range at Deodoro Military Club is being raved about in the International shooting community even being being given and award for excellence . There is nothing wrong with Maracana in its role and Athletics being as JH stadium . It will be a first but so do I believe will the mens soccer final being played in Wembley Stadium as opposed to the tradition of the Main stadium in the east end of London . An Olympic stadium in some cases has been Wembley of old being opened in the early 20's and finally used as a Olympic Stadium in 1948 , Los Angeles 1984 used the same stadium with renovations that tthey used in 1932 for those olympics. Logistically the two stadium makes sense . in prior olympics like Montreal, Munich or Seoul you did not have an existing stadium at the time of the bid. This indeed made for cost overruns and general embarrassment for the host country in the cases of Montreal and Munich. A real iconic bench for Bench Volleyball ? Rio has that . an incredible Samba Drome for the Archery and part of the Marathon ? again incredible imagery. The Sailing Venue again where could you have a Bob Costa of NBC in a studio on top of one of the mountains over Rio being able to perhaps point down to practically every venue including Sailing and Rowing ? No where that I can think of . Whether Rio wins 2016 or sometime in the future the city has the potential to be one of the most memorable games in History and for positive reasons. Well to your other points I see that everyone talks about we don't need the games and it is true . I think the games Frankly need places like Rio to keep the interest. At this point in history 2016 for South America is no better chance to have a great games then in Rio . I cant see a circumstance of a South America country having brand new infrastructure in regards to the olympic soccer tournament a full two years ahead of the summer olympics like Brazil and Rio will have. Jim jones Jim jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 When we read you, it looks like you were opposed to any Olympic Games everywhere in the world.... and you looks like you don't know how Olympic Games are working and how capital investments are used for the development of a city and a country !And finally, regarding your Gymnast selling T-Shirts... but this is the same everywhere around the world.... When i was a young gymnast in a suburb of Paris, my mothers twice a year was cooking cakes to be sold on a market to finance the transport of our teams to some competition... and I know a lot of sport's club or local football team that do the same or find some other solutions than sponsorship or subsidies to live !!! Man, I don´t know how Olympic games works and how capital are used for development of a city and a country ? Man, that´s not like you believe it is. Many countries that have hosted Olympics and World Cups, had only debts and more debts as legacy... and, I don´t know how is it in France, I know how it is in Brazil...that example was only one of many hard histories of our athletes. If you support Rio´s bid, that's ok, but as I said, you live in Europe, you don´t even know how things happen here...you want Olympics to be here, because for you, it´s a exotic place, with beautiful women and wonderful beaches, you are bored of Olympics in Europe, USA and Asia, aren´t you ? I don´t want the games here, because I know that it will mean trouble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Point two - well considering Brazil's place in the sporting world you would never know it. It may be selected sports like Soccer that Brazilians like but there seems to be an increase in the popularity of Basketball with young Brazilians playing in the NBA. Point three- I would not have such a self lofting attitude in regards to Venues in Rio if I was a Brazilian. The new Shooting Range at Deodoro Military Club is being raved about in the International shooting community even being being given and award for excellence . There is nothing wrong with Maracana in its role and Athletics being as JH stadium . It will be a first but so do I believe will the mens soccer final being played in Wembley Stadium as opposed to the tradition of the Main stadium in the east end of London . An Olympic stadium in some cases has been Wembley of old being opened in the early 20's and finally used as a Olympic Stadium in 1948 , Los Angeles 1984 used the same stadium with renovations that tthey used in 1932 for those olympics. Logistically the two stadium makes sense . in prior olympics like Montreal, Munich or Seoul you did not have an existing stadium at the time of the bid. This indeed made for cost overruns and general embarrassment for the host country in the cases of Montreal and Munich. Well to your other points I see that everyone talks about we don't need the games and it is true . I think the games Frankly need places like Rio to keep the interest. At this point in history 2016 for South America is no better chance to have a great games then in Rio . I cant see a circumstance of a South America country having brand new infrastructure in regards to the olympic soccer tournament a full two years ahead of the summer olympics like Brazil and Rio will have. Jim jones Jim jones Jones, Brazilians like football, (soccer), volleyball, basketball...those events will have public but only in finals...don´t imagine people going to watch ArgentinaxItaly, matching for a bronze medal in basket for example...or Russian women against Chinese in the first round of volleyball tournament...swimming and athletes too...but about the others ? Olympics is not only about this sports... You gave one axample from 1948...and another from 1984. But the last was an Olympic Stadium, with the track & field and ceremonies events. And don´t compare Soccer with Track Field mand. Soccer has no tradition in Olympics...I really don´t believe that IOC will want to see track field events whithout the olympic torch above the athletes... The last point, Brazil is not about Rio. You guys don't event know the capital of our country whithout searching in Wikipedia...and South America is not only about Brazil, besides, Brazil is a country totally different from the whole latin America...and I have concerns about the consequences of this Olympics hapenning here, since this is my homeland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 so this is what the Wonderful City is about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorabilia Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Man, I don´t know how Olympic games works and how capital are used for development of a city and a country ? Man, that´s not like you believe it is. Many countries that have hosted Olympics and World Cups, had only debts and more debts as legacy...and, I don´t know how is it in France, I know how it is in Brazil...that example was only one of many hard histories of our athletes. If you support Rio´s bid, that's ok, but as I said, you live in Europe, you don´t even know how things happen here...you want Olympics to be here, because for you, it´s a exotic place, with beautiful women and wonderful beaches, you are bored of Olympics in Europe, USA and Asia, aren´t you ? I don´t want the games here, because I know that it will mean trouble... You don't know me my friend ! I know games from years, I have been to several winter & summer games around the years in the last 20 years... I didn't just join this forum yesterday. If you check my past posts, you will see thousands of accurate and detailed posts regarding finance of the games, cities investments... I love this kind of things and i know about what i am talking about... When you said "debts as legacy"... I say acceleration of the investments, real legacy with infrastructures. The games are a way to boost the renewal of your city that would have took 20 years... you will do it in only 7 years.... Just compare Barcelona, Athens and Beijing before and after the games in terms of roads, transports, and some public infrastructures (and not only sporting venues). And even the games in London will change the face of the city (it would have been the same in Paris, in the area where we planned to built the OV... When it should have been finished in 2011... works would be only be finished in 2015 and with a reduce of the project (no covering of railways that it not so good from an environmental purpose). And regarding Rio 2016's capital investments... even if the games are not organized most of them (66%) are already underway... the games will help you to get the last 33% early ! You don't know me my friend ! You think I'm just an European regarding the world from his Eiffel Tower.... I have travel allround the world in most of continents (exept Africa actually) for personal & professional purpose. I staid in Rio for professional reasons during some monthes. So I know a little bit what is the daily life of some carriocas, I know what could bring the games to a city like Rio, to all the young brazilian people loving sports... But i also know what could bring the games in Rio to the IOC... I am not bored of Olympics in Europe, USA ... I could not been any day of my existing life to be bored of the games... But i know the olympic movement could gain a benefits in term on sport developments by hosting games in South America, and Rio is the best place for that. Finaly you said that you don't want the games in Rio, but that sounds "i don't want the games anywhere in the world because that's only debts..." but why are you there on a forum promoting sporting bids and olympic games ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 so this is what the Wonderful City is about... and you say you love Rio... You are a troll, probably, you are from Sao Paulo, and as journalist, I'm ashamed of having you as colleague. I was answering you post, but it was waste of time... Get your b.s. and be happy... But, please, if you don't want to help the discussion, don't play the stupid and the idio.t here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 You don't know me my friend ! I know games from years, I have been to several winter & summer... Congrats Memorabilia... Your comments are really good deal here. You probably know more about Rio chances than some uninformed journalist placed in Brasilia, and probably a Rio hater... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrique Valverde Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 You don't know me my friend ! I know games from years, I have been to several winter & summer games around the years in the last 20 years... I didn't just join this forum yesterday. If you check my past posts, you will see thousands of accurate and detailed posts regarding finance of the games, cities investments... I love this kind of things and i know about what i am talking about... When you said "debts as legacy"... I say acceleration of the investments, real legacy with infrastructures. The games are a way to boost the renewal of your city that would have took 20 years... you will do it in only 7 years.... Just compare Barcelona, Athens and Beijing before and after the games in terms of roads, transports, and some public infrastructures (and not only sporting venues). And even the games in London will change the face of the city (it would have been the same in Paris, in the area where we planned to built the OV... When it should have been finished in 2011... works would be only be finished in 2015 and with a reduce of the project (no covering of railways that it not so good from an environmental purpose). And regarding Rio 2016's capital investments... even if the games are not organized most of them (66%) are already underway... the games will help you to get the last 33% early ! You don't know me my friend ! You think I'm just an European regarding the world from his Eiffel Tower.... I have travel allround the world in most of continents (exept Africa actually) for personal & professional purpose. I staid in Rio for professional reasons during some monthes. So I know a little bit what is the daily life of some carriocas, I know what could bring the games to a city like Rio, to all the young brazilian people loving sports... But i also know what could bring the games in Rio to the IOC... I am not bored of Olympics in Europe, USA ... I could not been any day of my existing life to be bored of the games... But i know the olympic movement could gain a benefits in term on sport developments by hosting games in South America, and Rio is the best place for that. Finaly you said that you don't want the games in Rio, but that sounds "i don't want the games anywhere in the world because that's only debts..." but why are you there on a forum promoting sporting bids and olympic games ????? Maybe I can talk to you about the facilities, and the venues, but not about what is best for Rio, and Brazil...staying here is not enough to know about what we need. Finally, you don´t what is best place in South America or in Brazil to host it...I don´t know what you have in your mind to imagine that it´s the best place. I´m here, because me, and MANY brazilians, believe that this bid is a Joke...maybe all serious journalists think like that...I´m not talking about games everywhere, and any bids...but THIS Rio's bid, is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim jones Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Jones, Brazilians like football, (soccer), volleyball, basketball...those events will have public but only in finals...don´t imagine people going to watch ArgentinaxItaly, matching for a bronze medal in basket for example...or Russian women against Chinese in the first round of volleyball tournament...swimming and athletes too...but about the others ? Olympics is not only about this sports...You gave one axample from 1948...and another from 1984. But the last was an Olympic Stadium, with the track & field and ceremonies events. And don´t compare Soccer with Track Field mand. Soccer has no tradition in Olympics...I really don´t believe that IOC will want to see track field events whithout the olympic torch above the athletes... The last point, Brazil is not about Rio. You guys don't event know the capital of our country whithout searching in Wikipedia...and South America is not only about Brazil, besides, Brazil is a country totally different from the whole latin America...and I have concerns about the consequences of this Olympics hapenning here, since this is my homeland. Essentially in regards to Stadiums JH stadium fits the requirements set down by the governing body the IAAF when it adds the 15000 seats planned for if they indeed win the bid. John Baker is one of the many Australian Planners on the Rio 2016 project . Madrid's main stadium is only 65000 seats for their bid and it will host the opening and closing ceremonies. So is Madrid not using an olympics stadium as well because it doesn't have a capacity of 80,000 plus ? JH Stadium could probably be the Main Stadium you envision with some very simple things that I thought would be the reverse development of the Stadium which has similarities to Sydney 2000's main stadium . I believed at first JH stadium was built to be a second Fifa WC 2014 venue for the City of Rio and the planning with respect to being able to install 15000 addition seats under the endzone roof would satisfy Fifa requirements. Post 2014 Wc they could take off the Endzone roofing and install 10000 to 20000 additional temporary seats Per how Sydney 2000's block plan was . Post Sydney 2000 they took away the temporary seating and then installed endzone roofing. JH stadium will be 60000 seats total for 2016 and the work with the great pre-planing that had JH Stadium Developed for the 2007 Pan am games could indeed mean that Rio 2016 has its main Athletics Stadium complete and kitted out before London 2012 if they started work in November of 2009. That could be historic compared with 95 percent of the Hosts that stumble around in the dark for a couple of years developing plans . John Baker and others have well advanced plans that are very efficient in Nature. If Rio pulls off what I see they are planning and how they will have a capital works program that will be on the level of success of a Seoul 88 . No big stories of costing overruns or who can rescue the games like we had with Athens 2004 and the drone of cost overrun stories for London 2012 among others. Then only reasoning to have 85,000 seats as London 2012 will have is for hosting the opening and closing in the same location as the athletics. London 2012 itself could certainly have used Wembley as the venue for Opening and Closing ceremonies but I think the choice of East London was so the Athletes would be close to the Main Athletics Stadium in relationship to the Athletics village. Rio's village location is to suite having a majority of events close by. The Media village is close by as well. The plan to involve a 2014 World Cup final stadium for 2016 is actually very smart. Instead of a mad rush to change the single Main stadium over from Opening ceremonies to Athletics in week Two Maracana will host the opening ceremonies , JH stadium will have full access in Games trim before the games and in fact years before without final Games trim . Not Athens , Berlin , Montreal , London or any other olympics prior can say that with the possible exception of Seoul 88 or Moscow 80. Logistically around the venues for Ceremonies Soccer finals and Athletics it should be a much easier operation . Opening Ceremonies with a 10000 seat arena and Swimming pool complex with stands on the grounds of Maracana would seem like a great marshaling area for the Athletics let alone JH stadium not far away via the Urbans trains. I know the nerves people would have in Brazil saying oh we cannot do this but really the plan is pretty good and the risk really is low considering the work to be done for WC 2014 which really has to be finished for 2013 and the confederations cup. While you are in such a great position to stage with possibly the greatest example of how it can and should be done Cease that chance with both hands. I can't see many places in the world having these circumstances especially with Fresh Visions of Cost overrun games like 2012 in the so called first world . Jim jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim jones Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 and you say you love Rio...You are a troll, probably, you are from Sao Paulo, and as journalist, I'm ashamed of having you as colleague. I was answering you post, but it was waste of time... Get your b.s. and be happy... But, please, if you don't want to help the discussion, don't play the stupid and the idio.t here... well danny he is entitled to his spin but really when it comes down to it he does not see what Rio has set on the table that could make positive history of Rio. Brazil , south America and the rest of the so called Developing world .I absolutely hate that term and prefer arriving world . It is Happening everywhere and the day that Westerner stop trying to convict themselves of their false sense of superiority over people different then them is the day we start to have ideals in keeping with what the Olympics should be . jim jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 It's amazing how Henrique Valverde can write a lot of bs in a same sentence... In one post Henrique wrote more idiot things about Rio and Brazil than all the other idiot people here together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 I see this topic kinda refreshing about Rio bid. I really like the idea of seeing the Olympics to be hosted in Rio de Janeiro once in my life, because it's a really wonderful place on earth; maybe one of the best urban sceneries in the world, and after Madrid is my favourite for 2016. Having said that, I think this topic brings us back some of the real matters that have concerned any Rio serious bid in the past. Even the 2016 one, before this last three months marketing big-bang. Rio is lobbying SO WELL, that have made up very smartly some of the worse issues of the bid. I'm sure NO DOUBT that the Rio games will be a complete success in terms of afluence, organisation and security, but I'm not sure about what will happen after this 2014-2016 period in a country that, disgracefully, still has a big problem of poverty and political corruption. Nevertheless, memorabilia has brought and excellent point remembering us what happened to Barcelona, Athens, after the urban re-design of both for the Games. I have seen very closely the Barcelona reinvention and I can say it was turned into a new hot spot on the map that before the Games wasn't in any case. Tourism increased, incomings multiplied and the city turn very early into one of the most visited European cities. Anyway, it's very important to remember that achieving that success costed a lot to the catalonians, that experienced an exaggerated increase in their cost of living and made Catalonia loose its locomotive role in Spain, benefitting Madrid area. That's a fact. Will Rio metropolitan area be ready to absorb the impact of such a responsability, having much bigger levels of poverty than Catalonia had? Will it boost or will it slow down the economic boom of the country? It's just a very interesting question. Henrique Valverde... I don't think you're a troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Rio is already a expensive place to live. This can be one of the reason for the creation of slums or shantytowns in the past. For example, Leblon beach is the 20th most expensive place to live in the world. I believe the process Spain lived will not be the same in Brazil. Different cultures, different economies... Things in Brazil works in another way. Of course, two huge events in a row in Brazil is a window of opportunities to increase jobs and make some significant changes. No doubt about this: SOG and WC will help the economic booming of Brazil. But I'm not silly to believe that Olympic Games or World Cup will transform Brazil in 6, 7 years (SAVE THIS!!!)... By I'm sure it can boost some changes we are living since the 90s... But Brazil's problems will no disappear like magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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