Faster Posted September 28, 2009 Report Posted September 28, 2009 They were enthusiastic about bidding for the world championships and the world cups that have been a huge flop. I don't know what you don't get about the major detractors of the Korean bid, the Federation International de Ski (Alpine Skiing, Cross-Country Skiing, Nordic Combined and Ski Jumping), the World Curling Federation (Curling), the International Ice Hockey Federation (Ice Hockey) and the World Biathlon Federation (Biathlon) are against going to Korea because they trusted Korea with their premier events and get slapped in the face by seeing organizers having to give away tickets, have less then 20% ticket sales, providing terrible conditions for the events and generally showing that a small podunk Korean town is no place for the Winter Olympics. And the IOC has waiting in the wings two Asian cities that would be more than happy to host the games and would provide the support to not have a repeat of Nagano. Harbin and Almaty.
olympian Posted September 28, 2009 Report Posted September 28, 2009 to piss off some people its not that big of a deal, to piss off individual sports federations, its really big deal.
Troupe Posted October 3, 2009 Report Posted October 3, 2009 Next week, after Madrid's defeat, a final decision will be taken on a Zaragoza bid by regional authorities. They will need the approval of the Spanish NOC though. Link in Spanish
Kenadian Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Spain should just go for it. Madrid can only get 32 votes and the Spanish Olympic Committee has many recent years of working with and lobbying the IOC. Do what Italy, Canada, and Russia did and take that goodwill and go for your "consolation prize". And then Spain can join the small cast of countries that has hosted Winter Olympics, Summer Olympics, and World Cup: USA, France, Germany, Japan and Italy.
thatsnotmypuppy Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 I'm still a tad bitter that the Swedes are sitting this one out yet again.
Westfale Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Spain should just go for it. Madrid can only get 32 votes and the Spanish Olympic Committee has many recent years of working with and lobbying the IOC. Do what Italy, Canada, and Russia did and take that goodwill and go for your "consolation prize".And then Spain can join the small cast of countries that has hosted Winter Olympics, Summer Olympics, and World Cup: USA, France, Germany, Japan and Italy. Are you serious? Spain is even weaker in Winter sports than Korea. And as long as the Spanish authorities are dealing the doping issue so ridiculously, they should not get the Games.
Kenadian Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Yeah, why not...it will be fun. But it doesn't matter. The 2018 Games will go to Munich if the IOC votes sensibly or they will go to Pyeongchang if they are a gang of nutbars and crooks.
Citius Altius Fortius Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 I think it is more the question if the IOC wants to have Spanish Winter Olympics...
Kenadian Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 Prior to hosting the 1992 Summer Olympics, Spain did not have all that great of an Olympic record either. I still think Spain should give it a go with a Zaragoza/Jaca bid. That can now be Samaranch's dying wish. Zaragoza with its 2008 Expo legacy. Jaca with its 1981 and 1995 Winter Universiade legacy. And nearby Barcelona with its 1992 Olympic legacy. And I believe that Formigal is a pretty decent resort, as well. All spades better than what some tiny hilly backwater has to offer.
Gangwon Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 Yeah, why not...it will be fun.But it doesn't matter. The 2018 Games will go to Munich if the IOC votes sensibly or they will go to Pyeongchang if they are a gang of nutbars and crooks. Res ipsa loquitor. So if they vote PC then they're nutbars and crooks, but (as per your next post) if they give it to Spain to give Samaranch some last dying wish, that's ok? That's some nice reasoning. I'd actually say exactly the opposite. If the IOC has any sense of fairness, they'll avoid a back to back European winter games when others are capable.
Kenadian Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 Precisely. Pyeongchang's bid is a J-O-K-E! I favour Munich, but there is an interesting precedent with the past three Olympic Winter bid wins, and that is that all of them had an unsuccessful summer bid exactly 2 years earlier. The Spanish and Samaranch have influence in the IOC. Maybe they are corrupt, too, but they haven't been caught...unlike South Korea's IOC members.
Gangwon Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 Hah! Samaranch "maybe" corrupt? How naive. You don't get to be president of the IOC for 20 years and not know what goes on among the members. South Korea's IOC members made some pretty stupid choices in the past but I hardly think the consequences should be taken out on the South Korean people. If you're looking to grow winter sports, it wouldn't be a bad idea to start with Asia, and specifically with Korea, not only a country which could certainly benefit from growth in any winter sport not named short track, but also arguably Asia's top trend-setter (see Korean Wave).
Kenadian Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 The mountain is a good metaphor: Short runs and man made snow.
Troupe Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 Prior to hosting the 1992 Summer Olympics, Spain did not have all that great of an Olympic record either. I still think Spain should give it a go with a Zaragoza/Jaca bid. That can now be Samaranch's dying wish. Zaragoza with its 2008 Expo legacy. Jaca with its 1981 and 1995 Winter Universiade legacy. And nearby Barcelona with its 1992 Olympic legacy. And I believe that Formigal is a pretty decent resort, as well. All spades better than what some tiny hilly backwater has to offer. Main problem for a Zaragoza-Pyrinees bid will be that, even if it gets a chance by the NOC as a sort of a compromise with the region of Aragon, I don't see the NOC lobbying hard for it, I don't see it as their wish or Samaranch's, they may give it a go because they see it as a inoffensive bid that can't harm their priorities. The same happened with the previous Jaca bids. A bid centered in Zaragoza could be much stronger, but the central government won't get as involved as with Madrid, and the media and public outside the region of Aragon will ignore the bid cause there's no winter sports culture here. The priority for 2018 will be the World Cup, if that fails it may be the Euro Cup or Madrid 202X. I would like the winter games in Spain precisely to duplicate the effect the 1992 SOG had in winter sports, without having to import German cheaters, and because they would show the world a different aspect of our country, varied in landscapes and culture. But I don't see a real interest outside of Aragon.
Citius Altius Fortius Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 , without having to import German cheaters well, Mühlegg was known as a very strange person before he emigrated to Spain - there was this "jinxing" scandal in 1993 - he and his "healer" (she talked off water for him, which he drank - he believed that this water makes him healthier, faster....) blamed a German coach that he had jinxed Mühleggs drinks - it was a huge scandal in the press - finally in 1998 he was thrown out of the German skiing association...
cube Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 Hah! Samaranch "maybe" corrupt? How naive. You don't get to be president of the IOC for 20 years and not know what goes on among the members.South Korea's IOC members made some pretty stupid choices in the past but I hardly think the consequences should be taken out on the South Korean people. If you're looking to grow winter sports, it wouldn't be a bad idea to start with Asia, and specifically with Korea, not only a country which could certainly benefit from growth in any winter sport not named short track, but also arguably Asia's top trend-setter (see Korean Wave). taken out on people who dosen´t care about wintersport
Faster Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 The IFs have given Korea a far shack, dumped off some world championships and other major events and the result was: extremely poor conditions, extremely low attendance and extremely bad organization. Korea is not a Winter Sports country, and Pyeongchange is not going to get the Olympics when it will be the lowest population since 1994 by 300,000 people. No backwater hodown Korean podunk is going to win against France, Germany or China especially when the IOC and the IFs are EXTREMELY pissed off at the Koreans. Oh and the resurgent Japanese know how to lobby the IOC better then the pesky Koreans and successfully railroaded Pyeongchange 2014 into the ground.
AlexDS69 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 If South Korea is not a typical winter sports country, then how does one explain the success of the South Korean short track team, who have been dominant since short track entered the Games as a medal event in 1992? How does one explain the success that its long-track team has had of late? And how does one explain the fact that Yu-na Kim, the current world champion in women's figure skating, is the country's most famous person? For a country that isn't normally associated with winter sports, South Korea hasn't fared too badly. Yes, there could be more promotion of winter sports in South Korea. Yes, there could be more INTEREST from the Korean people. But what we've seen so far is only the beginning. Give it time. Will it be perfect? No. But there is still potential for winter sports to grow in Asia, and there is still potential for South Korea to not only produce world-class winter athletes, but host well-run, well-attended events.
Faster Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 If South Korea is not a typical winter sports country, then how does one explain the success of the South Korean short track team, who have been dominant since short track entered the Games as a medal event in 1992? How does one explain the success that its long-track team has had of late? And how does one explain the fact that Yu-na Kim, the current world champion in women's figure skating, is the country's most famous person? For a country that isn't normally associated with winter sports, South Korea hasn't fared too badly.Yes, there could be more promotion of winter sports in South Korea. Yes, there could be more INTEREST from the Korean people. But what we've seen so far is only the beginning. Give it time. Will it be perfect? No. But there is still potential for winter sports to grow in Asia, and there is still potential for South Korea to not only produce world-class winter athletes, but host well-run, well-attended events. The Dutch have produced speed skaters for years, they are still not a winter sport country. Korea has been given a far number of World Championships and World Cups, all outside of short track and figure skating have been poorly attended and very poor quality venues and conditions. The World Curling and Biathlon Championships were a complete disaster this year. You can't force this on people, Nagano proved this, the major Japanese sports were well attended by Japanese, the rest were a see of white faces from Europe and North America. The IOC is not going to give there show to a country that is going to lay an egg, they want people to talk about the performances, the venues, the great organization and conditions, but the terrible attendance, the lack of organization, the terrible conditions.
Gangwon Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 taken out on people who dosen´t care about wintersport For the sake of argument going along with what you say, all the more reason to give the people first-hand exposure to the Winter Games. People do get inspired.
Faster Posted October 6, 2009 Report Posted October 6, 2009 You ain't getting inspired when no one shows up.
Gangwon Posted October 6, 2009 Report Posted October 6, 2009 It's the Olympics. When the host site is a mere few hours away from nearly every citizen in the country, the masses will be there. The people will be inspired by the festive spirit surrounding the Games. This isn't the Curling Championships. Of course past winter sport events like the one earlier this year are going to draw a lesser crowd in Korea than Europe, would you expect anything else? (Of course, it doesn't help when the Curling Championships coincide with the World Baseball Classic, which IS a huge deal in Korea) But package curling with the Olympics, and you have a great turnout. And weather can be unpredictable in any part of the world. So the area surrounding PC was unlucky with snowfall last winter. As I recall, Innsbruck suffered from a lack of snowfall when they hosted the '64 Games. For all we know, nearby Munich could suffer the same fate in any given year. It's not just about what host can provide the best crowds, because if that were the case, then I'd agree that the Games should never leave Europe and North America. But part of the Olympic movement is to spread the Games to different parts of the world, and the Winter Games have continued to be recycled amongst Europe/NA time and time again.
cube Posted October 6, 2009 Report Posted October 6, 2009 For the sake of argument going along with what you say, all the more reason to give the people first-hand exposure to the Winter Games. People do get inspired. The OG are nothing to play with, to give exposure to the people the people had the chance to get exposure and they didn´t used the chance
olympian Posted October 6, 2009 Report Posted October 6, 2009 PC had the chance to show the the IF's and the IOC they have what it takes to host the Olympics by virtue of them hosting the World Cup and World Championships and byt not making the most out of it, its only pisses off the people who are responsible for makign the decision.
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