Guest Rapha Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I think this should be a very important question to IOC voters consider before making their decision. Of course, there is a plenty of questions, the financial, geopolitical, the sentimental, and so on. But which city really does deserve to host the Games? I mean, which one of them, based not only in the criteria the IOC asked them to present in their bid books, but also in something deeper, something that can make not only that city but the whole world be a little better place? Which city can give the Games a human touch, differently of what we have seen so many times in spetacularly synchronized presentations? Where there will be time to look around ourselves and see that the world is not perfect and that we are all part of it? Where money will be used to build not only stadia but also to create opportunities to develop what citizens from anyone of the bidding cities need the most: being proud of being nothing else but human beings open to the most different people and cultures. Please, forgive me those ones that think Beijing's overwhelming Opening Ceremony is to be celebrated as one of the greatest moments of makind creativeness. I don't think that way. It was so far away from the Chinese people's life that anyone can see China has not changed after the games: the same authoritarism, the same impositive government, the same lack of a free press. No. No games to places like that. Games should go to where they could help such kind of structures to be vanished. Does anybody remember Barcelona joyfullness? And I mentioned this city not for supporting Madrid - or not. I just picked up an example. Or Moscow's Misha crying. So simple, so beautiful. I'm affraid of an excessive pressure for a technically - almost mechanichally - planned games. And saying this, I make refference to no city at all. I am affraid of watching to Games prepared just for a couple of weeks and not for helping to really change the lives. Mine, yours and the life of all American, Japanese, Brazilian and Spanish people's, as well. Forgive me my poor English. Just wanted to share a dream. That´s all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_O_S Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 My answer to your question is that all four deserve them. Any city that's gotten this far deserves them, and is furthermore capable of organising them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruling Czar Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 No M o S. only one deserves the games........I would go with Rio flat.....if the philosophy of new frontiers is to be honoured. Tokyo.........if the philosophy of legacy is to be honoured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I think this should be a very important question to IOC voters consider before making their decision. Of course, there is a plenty of questions, the financial, geopolitical, the sentimental, and so on. But which city really does deserve to host the Games? I mean, which one of them, based not only in the criteria the IOC asked them to present in their bid books, but also in something deeper, something that can make not only that city but the whole world be a little better place? Which city can give the Games a human touch, differently of what we have seen so many times in spetacularly synchronized presentations? Where there will be time to look around ourselves and see that the world is not perfect and that we are all part of it? Where money will be used to build not only stadia but also to create opportunities to develop what citizens from anyone of the bidding cities need the most: being proud of being nothing else but human beings open to the most different people and cultures. Please, forgive me those ones that think Beijing's overwhelming Opening Ceremony is to be celebrated as one of the greatest moments of makind creativeness. I don't think that way. It was so far away from the Chinese people's life that anyone can see China has not changed after the games: the same authoritarism, the same impositive government, the same lack of a free press. No. No games to places like that. Games should go to where they could help such kind of structures to be vanished. Does anybody remember Barcelona joyfullness? And I mentioned this city not for supporting Madrid - or not. I just picked up an example. Or Moscow's Misha crying. So simple, so beautiful. I'm affraid of an excessive pressure for a technically - almost mechanichally - planned games. And saying this, I make refference to no city at all. I am affraid of watching to Games prepared just for a couple of weeks and not for helping to really change the lives. Mine, yours and the life of all American, Japanese, Brazilian and Spanish people's, as well. Forgive me my poor English. Just wanted to share a dream. That´s all. Welcome, Rapha. You condemn Beijing's hosting of the Games...and rightfully so, if speaking from a human rights point of view. But in the same breath, you are TOTALLY moved by a fake crying mascot, MISCHA, of the Soviet Union, ANOTHER TOTALITARIAN regime (at that time)??? uhmmm...it doesn't compute, Rapha. The Games are just a 2-week party. That's all..nothing less, nothing more. It's not going to cure poverty, AIDS or cancer. You get a few balloons, pins, T-shirt, tapes and some wonderful images...that's all. Don't expect more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I think this should be a very important question to IOC voters consider before making their decision. Of course, there is a plenty of questions, the financial, geopolitical, the sentimental, and so on. But which city really does deserve to host the Games? I mean, which one of them, based not only in the criteria the IOC asked them to present in their bid books, but also in something deeper, something that can make not only that city but the whole world be a little better place? Which city can give the Games a human touch, differently of what we have seen so many times in spetacularly synchronized presentations? Where there will be time to look around ourselves and see that the world is not perfect and that we are all part of it? Where money will be used to build not only stadia but also to create opportunities to develop what citizens from anyone of the bidding cities need the most: being proud of being nothing else but human beings open to the most different people and cultures. Please, forgive me those ones that think Beijing's overwhelming Opening Ceremony is to be celebrated as one of the greatest moments of makind creativeness. I don't think that way. It was so far away from the Chinese people's life that anyone can see China has not changed after the games: the same authoritarism, the same impositive government, the same lack of a free press. No. No games to places like that. Games should go to where they could help such kind of structures to be vanished. Does anybody remember Barcelona joyfullness? And I mentioned this city not for supporting Madrid - or not. I just picked up an example. Or Moscow's Misha crying. So simple, so beautiful. I'm affraid of an excessive pressure for a technically - almost mechanichally - planned games. And saying this, I make refference to no city at all. I am affraid of watching to Games prepared just for a couple of weeks and not for helping to really change the lives. Mine, yours and the life of all American, Japanese, Brazilian and Spanish people's, as well. Forgive me my poor English. Just wanted to share a dream. That´s all. Welcome Rapha! Well, I'm not sure the IOC takes that sensible, emotive consideration in the final voting. Many other factors much less spiritual are the stars. Nowadays marketing can make it all and that's why the world got such a nice image from China during Aug 8, 2008. I agree with you that the pressure can be too much for some cities on the 2016 race, and therefore I must say that other some may use their illusion to replace its lack of attraction. Just as Barcelona did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lehari Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Simply the One and Only, RIO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Africa deserves it! stop being such colonialists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm Jeremie Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 The Games are just a 2-week party. That's all..nothing less, nothing more. It's not going to cure poverty, AIDS or cancer. You get a few balloons, pins, T-shirt, tapes and some wonderful images...that's all. Don't expect more. That's a point of view, in which case it makes perfect sense to rely solely on private funding to stage a 2-week party. I do strongly believe that the Games are much more than a 2-week party. Sure, they are not going to cure poverty, AIDS or cancer (and no one is claiming they do, nor they should) but the Games can leave a unique legacy (economical, sport, social, environmental) to a city, a country and sometimes to the world. Vancouver and London have a vision and are going to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 That's a point of view, in which case it makes perfect sense to rely solely on private funding to stage a 2-week party.I do strongly believe that the Games are much more than a 2-week party. Sure, they are not going to cure poverty, AIDS or cancer (and no one is claiming they do, nor they should) but the Games can leave a unique legacy (economical, sport, social, environmental) to a city, a country and sometimes to the world. Vancouver and London have a vision and are going to deliver. I think you are going to be disappointed with Vancouver. The signs still aren't reading well and there are plans for massive protests throughout the games, though that can be hindered by a lake of accommodations. Though I agree with you, more countries and peoples take part in the Olympic Games than any other forum, sport brings the world together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 'Deserves' is a difficult word to get to grips with when each city is investing about £30m into their bid. They all deserve to be given an equal chance by the IOC who are lucky to have four such fantastic cities lining up to host their party and are lucky to have had five world-class cities last time around. Which city can give the Games a human touch, differently of what we have seen so many times in spetacularly synchronized presentations? I'd suggest Rio. But it's only two years after that country's world cup and that will take a huge amount away from the spectacle and the anticipation won't be as strong, at least not for me. It'd be like if the World Cup was going to China next year. Yeh, it'd be a great show, but I'd be less enthused having already witnissed Beijing 2008. Rio hosting ought to be unique, special and I don't want my enthusiasm dampened in this way by being already filled up on their culture, and not yet ready for a second helping. I fear that could be the case if they win 2016. Your other points about humanity and embracing all peoples are so intangible that they're virtually impossible to discuss; although it is arguable that London won 2012 by using such intangibles to great effect; the street boy in Africa being inspired by the games and the little Chinese girl learning to swim were features of one the bid's films and were pretty effective, if a bit wishy-washy in terms of actual substance. Emotions can be used to great effect to win a bid. What the actual games are like is perhaps harder to pin down, especially when you're talking about less quantifiable social legacies rather than the bricks and mortar being laid. Your English is not that poor, it's perfectly understandable. Welcome to the boards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm Jeremie Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Your other points about humanity and embracing all peoples are so intangible that they're virtually impossible to discuss; although it is arguable that London won 2012 by using such intangibles to great effect; the street boy in Africa being inspired by the games and the little Chinese girl learning to swim were features of one the bid's films and were pretty effective, if a bit wishy-washy in terms of actual substance. The irony of it being that any of the 5 candidates could have used these images (they were not really related specifically to London). But London is the only city that developped a true story throughout its whole bid and brilliantly delivered it, culminating in what has been one of the best presentations ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 The irony of it being that any of the 5 candidates could have used these images (they were not really related specifically to London). Exactly. It was a very well pulled off marketing ploy when all is said and done, and it is the aspect of the London games I've been most cynical of since. I'm not convinced 2012 will have a massive effect on people's health and fitness in this country, and nor am I totally convinced that a London games would inspire people in China and Africa more than one in Paris or New York. But London was the only city that took a risk with a narrative like this (and it was a risk, it could've gone belly-up if done badly) and it paid off. The games themselves will be great fun in 2012 - relaxed, summery, colourful - and a complete contrast to what went four years earlier in terms of atmosphere, but in terms of legacy I think the physical legacy in East London is much more important than the social legacy many of our films suggested would be the focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 summery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I know it's England but we do have summers.....occassionaly, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Yeh, it'd be a great show, but I'd be less enthused having already witnissed Beijing 2008. Rio hosting ought to be unique, special and I don't want my enthusiasm dampened in this way by being already filled up on their culture, and not yet ready for a second helping. But aren't you supporting an England bid for 2018? Will the world already be "filled up" on English culture after 2012? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 If there's a chance of an Olympics and a World Cup being in this country in the next decade I'm going to support it, sod what the rest of the world thinks! I'm a hypocrite, so what? But being serious, the main reason I support London 2012 or England 2018 is because they're here. I won't feel like I've had my fill of English culture after 2012 because I live here - it just doesn't work like that! I think you're allowed to be a little inconsistant when it comes to supporting your own country, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 But aren't you supporting an England bid for 2018? Will the world already be "filled up" on English culture after 2012? No. I think a localized event for 2012, followed by a national event six years later would (for me anyway) NOT result in an over-saturation of one culture. But the 2014-2016 scenario for Brazil-Rio might be a little too close for comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_O_S Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I know it's England but we do have summers.....occassionaly, at least. Not last year though But the weather has been fine up until now, spring-wise I mean. The winter was horribly cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I agree. One can say all of the cities deserve it since they are putting in time and money to bid. Hands down, Rio is the one with the strongest heart string, but there are MANY cities in the world that have never hosted before. Chicago and Madrid being two of them. At the end of the day, this is a city bidding, and Chicago was supposed to be the first U.S. city to ever host a SOG, but that was taken away. I think 2016 would be more than enough to make up for this. I think Rio and Tokyo have a good chance at hosting a future SOG in my lifetime (being 24 years old now). I am not so sure Chicago will bid again. The U.S. has many capable cities, and it could be tough to go through this all over again, especially with Mayor Daley getting up there in age, and this bid has been his driving force. I also expect Toronto to jump in the mix in the coming years which could make it a bit more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cslopes54 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Welcome! I go for Rio, then Chicago but anything can happen, all these bids look so impressive, tho i think Dohas drop was unfair and i was curious to learn what they had to show, the arabs can come up with btfl and mind blowing architecture. And Soaring.. I dont think Toronto got a chance in another olympics any soon, Canada had it already. Now they have the winter olympics in Vancouver and Toronto is a great contender for the Pan ams, there are so many new countries trying to get in. I do hope Chicago bid again if they dont win 2016, I dont wanna see LA and NY having an olympics because they so egocentric cities specially NY we see all time, and its important for the US to impose different cultures like Chicago and Boston(bidding 2020). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Welcome!I go for Rio, then Chicago but anything can happen, all these bids look so impressive, tho i think Dohas drop was unfair and i was curious to learn what they had to show, the arabs can come up with btfl and mind blowing architecture. And Soaring.. I dont think Toronto got a chance in another olympics any soon, Canada had it already. Now they have the winter olympics in Vancouver and Toronto is a great contender for the Pan ams, there are so many new countries trying to get in. I do hope Chicago bid again if they dont win 2016, I dont wanna see LA and NY having an olympics because they so egocentric cities specially NY we see all time, and its important for the US to impose different cultures like Chicago and Boston(bidding 2020). I would have liked to have seen Doha's bid - just for curiosity sake, but there is no chance of holding an Olympics in October! I agree, Toronto will probably not host an Olympics anytime soon, but it could hurt and American bid in the voting round by splitting the vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim jones Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Africa deserves it! stop being such colonialists Africa has to have a dog in the Fight and if Rio does not win 2016 then Capetown 2020 sounds very good to me . Jim Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim jones Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 I know it's England but we do have summers.....occassionaly, at least. ONe day of sun interrupting months of Rain LOL. Jim Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim jones Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Welcome!I go for Rio, then Chicago but anything can happen, all these bids look so impressive, tho i think Dohas drop was unfair and i was curious to learn what they had to show, the arabs can come up with btfl and mind blowing architecture. And Soaring.. I dont think Toronto got a chance in another olympics any soon, Canada had it already. Now they have the winter olympics in Vancouver and Toronto is a great contender for the Pan ams, there are so many new countries trying to get in. I do hope Chicago bid again if they dont win 2016, I dont wanna see LA and NY having an olympics because they so egocentric cities specially NY we see all time, and its important for the US to impose different cultures like Chicago and Boston(bidding 2020). I think Canada is going to be fairly regular staging Olympics whether it is Summer or Winter. I can't see a summer games until the 2030's which would be about 56 years mimimum between summer games . Winter games I could see in the 2030's if a summer games is not awarded . There are only so many Winter Olympic countries and Canada certainly has done very well staging them . Quebec City I can see making a bid in the 2020's or 2030s. Once the first bid victories happened it certainly got easier. Vancouver was a second attempt where Calgary and Montreal tried many times before getting the games. Vancouver 2010 thou really was a first attempt if you look at the bid for the 1976 games. An Eastern Time Zone Winter or Summer games has a certain weight to it for American TV rights. If Chicago wins 2016 you will probably not see a summer bid from Canada's main competition for a while either on the summer or winter side. That can have Toronto or Quebec city with a certain amount of leverage in the 2030's . The Winter games will be in Asia atleast once and Europe a couple of times by the time Quebec city would possibly contest for the winter games. Summer Games are going to go to new frontiers there is no question and North America may be pushed further back . As too who deserves the games . Subjective really . it is about time for South America to host. but all are deserving except Madrid simply because it is much too soon on many fronts . I read a AFP report saying it was Chicago's to lose hopefully those front runner predictions happen more as that would be the kiss of death for Chicago as shown in the Past with press speculation Jim jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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