DannyelBrazil Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 Yes, it can, Dannyel. But if the club and the commitee can´t get the political help necessary to at least bid for the Opening Game, then what should they do? Cry out loud ? No. The commitee must work with the reality: if we can´t do our best with the stadium, let´s do our best with the city and the visitors. Keeping all the urban projects related to the World Cup in progress. Ease the acess to the stadium. Get the better possible logistics for Tv crews, teams and visitors. Offer promotions. Plan other kinds of events related to the Cup. This would be the wiser approach, helping the marketing of the city. I don´t believe that SP will be excluded from the Cup, but even if it happens, its airport still will be highly demanded. It´s important to keep all the related projects running, because not only the World Cup depends on them but the life of millions of people too. And we are forgetting the fact that Morumbi is listed as one of the stadiums for the 2016 olympic soccer competition. So there´s no excuse. The club and commitee must keep working. I agree Sao Paulo will not and can not be excluded from the World Cup. But the people involved in Sao Paulo commitee seems to be a little "out-of-this-world". They can not say on TV that no matter the project, Sao Paulo will host the opening match. I'm pretty surprised with SP committee atitude. I still believe that it'd be better to SP to build a new and modern stadium and then send it to Corinthians (Even I hating Corinthians more than any other team in the World). Sao Paulo can not have a secondary role in this World Cup. No matter the price! - This is my opinion. As you know I live in Santos, the city has huge projects to host some team here in the city, in Santos FC structure. Santos really needs that to improve lots of things, specially tourism related to World Cup. Believe me, I love Santos' region and I'm pro-Sao Paulo since Santos can really be boosted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 Sao Paulo can not have a secondary role in this World Cup. No matter the price! - This is my opinion. I understand. You know, there´s a lot a bureaucratic and politic problems here. They don´t want to build a new stadium and people don´t waht they to use public money in a private property. Due to this situation probably the city will have a secondary role. Oh, well. I love the city of Santos and I´m glad to see the port upgrades in progress right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 I love the city of Santos and I´m glad to see the port upgrades in progress right now. I'm confident about Port renovation in Santos, even being too slow and chaotic... But I'm optimistic about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Well, well... for what I´m reading right now on newspapers, it seems that Sao Paulo won´t host any games in the World Cup. CBF don´t want to use Morumbi. Government won´t build a new Stadium. CBF expects a private group to build a stadium... and this will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Well, well... for what I´m reading right now on newspapers, it seems that Sao Paulo won´t host any games in the World Cup. CBF don´t want to use Morumbi. Government won´t build a new Stadium. CBF expects a private group to build a stadium... and this will never happen. Links? Well, I think nothing will be decided meanwhile all soccer authorities are attending World Cup in South Africa. Decisions about 2014 will be taken after the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Links? Well, I think nothing will be decided meanwhile all soccer authorities are attending World Cup in South Africa. Decisions about 2014 will be taken after the tournament. http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/copa-do-mundo/noticia/2010/06/morumbi-esta-fora-da-copa-2014.html I really hope a new stadium won't be build financed by public money... It looks like it will... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 http://globoesporte....-copa-2014.html I really hope a new stadium won't be build financed by public money... It looks like it will... I've just read it... Gosh... They need to decide it as soon as possible. The world cup will be in only 4 years and Sao Paulo does not decided which stadium will host the game. I'm sure Sao Paulo will be not out of the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 I'm sure Sao Paulo will be not out of the WC. I´ve just searched for some articles, and the possible scenario is a construction of a new stadium, through partnerships between the State Football Federation and real state companies (something similar to what Palmeiras FC is doing) But this is unlikely to happen. At least U$$ 600 million would be needed. In the end, Federal Government will have to come with the money. Another problem is... where would they build this stadium ? It´s going to be a place very, very far from hotels and airports. Curitiba´s Arena da Baixada project is cancelled too. They will have to come with a new Stadium. Probably funded by Federal Government too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotosy Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Statement on Morumbi Stadium (FIFA.com) Wednesday 16 June 2010 The Committee of the City of Sao Paulo did not deliver to the Local Organizing Committee of the 2014 FIFA World Cup (LOC) the financial guarantees for the approved project presented in relation to the Morumbi Stadium by the deadline set by the 2014 FIFA World Cup LOC and FIFA of 14 May 2010. The Committee of the Cidty of São Paulo sent recently to the LOC a sixth project, which will not be examined as it has been received long after the deadline. Therefore, the Cicero Pompeu Toledo Stadium, commonly known as Morumbi, is excluded from the 2014 FIFA World Cup. FIFA and the LOC will engage with the City of São Paulo for further discussions. FIFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 Curitiba´s Arena da Baixada project is cancelled too. They will have to come with a new Stadium. Probably funded by Federal Government too. According to globoesporte.com Arena da Baixada is not cancelled yet. They need to show financial guarantees to keep on going. http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/copa-do-mundo/noticia/2010/06/morumbi-esta-fora-da-copa-2014.html Another problem is... where would they build this stadium ? It´s going to be a place very, very far from hotels and airports. The famous Pirituba project will rise from nothing, you'll see in the next days. In the end, they will give a Corinthians a stadium for free... For me, this was already announced since the problems in Morumbi Stadium started to be discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 SE Palmeiras wants to host games in its new stadium But if confirmed, Sao Paulo will not host the opening match http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/copa-do-mundo/noticia/2010/06/sem-morumbi-palmeiras-coloca-arena-palestra-disposicao-da-fifa.html I like the render of the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cslopes54 Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 SE Palmeiras wants to host games in its new stadium But if confirmed, Sao Paulo will not host the opening match http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/copa-do-mundo/noticia/2010/06/sem-morumbi-palmeiras-coloca-arena-palestra-disposicao-da-fifa.html I like the render of the stadium. not loving the lime green, but anything SP gives is better than That Morumbi planned for '14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cslopes54 Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 maracana got new lighting effects to celebrate Brazil at te WC and 60 yrs since 1950s cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 I loved the illumination for Maracana 60 years celebration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 The famous Pirituba project will rise from nothing, you'll see in the next days. In the end, they will give a Corinthians a stadium for free... For me, this was already announced since the problems in Morumbi Stadium started to be discussed. More or less this..... I was watching RecordNews Tv yesterday and it was reported that Gilberto Kassab, Sao Paulo´s mayor, is already in negotiations with CBF and private companies for a new stadium in Sao Paulo. This Pirituba project probably already exists for quite some time. It´s not clear what these "negotiations" are albout, if it will be a public/private partnership or just public investment. If it´s a 100% public stadium, it still won´t be given away to Corinthians as people think, it may be either a time-limited concession (like the Botafogo-Engenhao case) or rent (like they already do with Pacaembu). It still won´t be owned by Corinthians. Reporters talked about a second option, and this would be in... Guarulhos ! I really don´t mind where it will be. I just hope they do something in order to ease the acess to the stadium. Because there´s no project of rapid mass transportation to that region. As a Sao Paulo fan, I prefer to see Morumbi out of the Cup instead of seeing the club bankrupt with that heavy debt. I just wouldn´t like to see public money spent on a new stadium, because the city has many others priorities. By the way.... the Maracana lightning is fabulous !!!! really loved it !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 I just wouldn´t like to see public money spent on a new stadium, because the city has many others priorities. Rogério, sorry, but this "Sao Paulo have other priorities" that all paulistas are saying is not a good argument for me... A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Otherwise, Sao Paulo should ask its big industrial and financial sector to help. Where are the so-called Heart of Brazil economics when the state needs them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Otherwise, Sao Paulo should ask its big industrial and financial sector to help. Where are the so-called Heart of Brazil economics when the state needs them? Have you ever wondered that, perhaps, SP is called the "Heart of Brazilian economics", exactly because of the pragmatism and austerity on private investments? Private sector survive on profit and maybe it can't see it in this case. If this is the case, here's one more reason for the governments not to spend money on this FIFA's extravaganza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Rogério, sorry, but this "Sao Paulo have other priorities" that all paulistas are saying is not a good argument for me... A Of course a the state of SP with a debt of R$155 billion and the city of SP with a debt of R$45 billion, with several problems on health care, education, mass transport, etc. should have the WC as a priority... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Of course a the state of SP with a debt of R$155 billion and the city of SP with a debt of R$45 billion, with several problems on health care, education, mass transport, etc. should have the WC as a priority... Not as priority, I never said that. And I don't support government to pay all the expenses of a new stadium. But both governments (State and city) can help, can pay a BNDES financing in several years easily... Smaller states than Sao Paulo are helping the other host cities. Wasn't Sao Paulo the richest and powerful state of Brazil? It's unbelievable that Sao Paulo doesn't have money to build a soccer stadium. The GDP of Sao Paulo state is bigger than the whole Argentina! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 The problem here, Dannyel, is that even if government get BNDES funding, it would be aimed to works in a private proprierty. If they come with a project for a public stadium, this wouldn´t be a problem, but for a private project, they can´t give any guarantee, the bank would demand these guarantees for the final beneficiator (SPFC) and not from the intermediates (government). And that´s why SPFC couldn´t do the deal. In this sense, it´s way more understandable that they prefer to use that money in infra-structure than in private projects, in a city with so many urgent problems. For private investors, there´s nothing much to profit from this except the opportunity to showcase their brands at the Stadium for some time. It may not seems much to them. That´s why I insist this is a political, and not a financial, problem. In the case of smaller states, they´re investing in public stadia, what is way more easy, considering the bureaucracy involved. Probably Sao Paulo will do the same with a new Stadium. But we have to wait until the end of the World Cup to know. CBF will come to discuss it again only then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Not as priority, I never said that. And I don't support government to pay all the expenses of a new stadium. But both governments (State and city) can help, can pay a BNDES financing in several years easily... Smaller states than Sao Paulo are helping the other host cities. Wasn't Sao Paulo the richest and powerful state of Brazil? It's unbelievable that Sao Paulo doesn't have money to build a soccer stadium. The GDP of Sao Paulo state is bigger than the whole Argentina! You talk as there's money to spare in SP... If you agree it's not a priority and SP can't find a private investor, what a sensible administrator should do? Of course SP could pay BNDES back, but the question is: Should SP take this money to host a WC? Why? These are not rethorical questions. Feel free to answer them... EX: I could borrow money from a bank to buy a new car and easily pay back in several years, but do I need new car? How will a new car improve my life? Will this debt be woth in 5 years time? You are answering some questions before identifying them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 That´s why I insist this is a political, and not a financial, problem. For sure... What I told is to say that "Sao Paulo have other priorities" is not an argument to cut Sao Paulo from World Cup. To say that is, once again, try to show how Sao Paulo is better than the other states. I don't like it. Sao Paulo have money to build an entire World Cup by itself and keep investing in the "priorities" the state have. This is notorious how SP is rich. As Barbara Gancia wrote today in Folha de S.Paulo, both things can be done at the same time. That's also my opinion. The World Cup will be the biggest event Sao Paulo ever held! It's a lifetime chance for Sao Paulo be really known abroad. It's a political problem, I agree, but people from Sao Paulo are bombing the internet saying that it's a financing problem and Sao Paulo doesn't have money to build a stadium. I totally disagree. Sao Paulo can pay a BNDES financing easily! The money is already available! PS: I prefer Palmeiras-Palestra Italia project. I'm really excited about Palmeiras having a nice stadium for playing its games. You talk as there's money to spare in SP... If you agree it's not a priority and SP can't find a private investor, what a sensible administrator should do? Of course SP could pay BNDES back, but the question is: Should SP take this money to host a WC? Why? These are not rethorical questions. Feel free to answer them... EX: I could borrow money from a bank to buy a new car and easily pay back in several years, but do I need new car? How will a new car improve my life? Will this debt be woth in 5 years time? You are answering some questions before identifying them... Sao Paulo needs a modern stadium. It's a shame for the city that Morumbi is the best stadium in the biggest and richer city of Brazil. Sao Paulo can pay the car and need the car. And the car will be used. Corinthians and its huge number of supporters doesn't have a stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 For sure... What I told is to say that "Sao Paulo have other priorities" is not an argument to cut Sao Paulo from World Cup. To say that is, once again, try to show how Sao Paulo is better than the other states. I don't like it. Perhaps a personal complex... Doesn't make any sense "São Paulo have other priorities" means SP is better... As Barbara Gancia wrote today in Folha de S.Paulo, both things can be done at the same time. That's also my opinion. Sao Paulo can pay a BNDES financing easily! The money is already available! Of course both things can be done! But why should it? What is the best for SP? Sao Paulo can pay the car and need the car. Why? And the car will be used. Corinthians and its huge number of supporters doesn't have a stadium And how will the general population of SP benefit from it? PS: I'm a Corinthinas Supporter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Perhaps a personal complex... Doesn't make any sense "São Paulo have other priorities" means SP is better... I'm complexed about Sao Paulo (son of paulista, married with a paulista, working in SP). Really, Feheva, whatever... May SP have what it deserves. It's really not a problem of mine. I'm only interested about how Santos city will be part of the World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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