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Samaranch Jr.: Chicago Will Need More Than Obama


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Then you should go to Bravo Murillo, Lavapies, Torrejon de Ardoz, Usera among other neighbourhoods. Nearly 20% of Madrid population are inmigrants and most of them came to Madrid in the past few years. So their culture is still very present and not like in Chicago already fully integrated in american culture. ;)

And of course, we have the tourism. Multiculture during the whole year, specially intense during summer. Valencia and his coast is literally overrunned with tourists of different cultures. (Valencia - part of the bid with some venues).

Not much more different than Rio, in themes tourism.

Tokyo is less multicultured i would say. Maybe the games could help in this case, and open Japan little more to the rest of the world. Legacy is important. We shouldnt forget this.

Indeed all cities are multicultural in every sense, but do keep in mind Chicago is a very heterogenous society. As Soaring Higher suggests, the city is home to thousands of different ethnic backgrounds. The reason that Chicago, and for that matter the United States maintains its heterogenous society is that immigrants, legal or not, do not have to assimilate in the American society. People are known to be born, live and die not knowing how to speak English or attend English-speaking schools, or encounter "Americans." This is the very same reason why the immigration debate is such a controversial topic among politicians. Interestingly, the United States does not have an official language. But it's not just the language too, but also the lifestyle. You can have a child in a Swedish hospital, attend a British school, shop at a Polish grocery store, eat in Greektown, attend service at a Haitian church, work at a Cambodian bakery, retire in a Chinese nursing home, have a wake at an Armenian funeral home, and be buried in a Jewish cemetery.

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Even if you're not Jewish? Why would you want that or would that be allowed?

Ha! I was trying to imply that yes we have all these cultural institutions, even a Jewish cemetery, but not necessarily having one and same person experience all these in their lifetime. But then again, I'm sure it's possible.

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Indeed all cities are multicultural in every sense, but do keep in mind Chicago is a very heterogenous society. As Soaring Higher suggests, the city is home to thousands of different ethnic backgrounds. The reason that Chicago, and for that matter the United States maintains its heterogenous society is that immigrants, legal or not, do not have to assimilate in the American society. People are known to be born, live and die not knowing how to speak English or attend English-speaking schools, or encounter "Americans." This is the very same reason why the immigration debate is such a controversial topic among politicians. Interestingly, the United States does not have an official language. But it's not just the language too, but also the lifestyle. You can have a child in a Swedish hospital, attend a British school, shop at a Polish grocery store, eat in Greektown, attend service at a Haitian church, work at a Cambodian bakery, retire in a Chinese nursing home, have a wake at an Armenian funeral home, and be buried in a Jewish cemetery.

Umm.

This is a bit inaccurate. People who live in Chicago do attend Swedish hospitals, shop at Polish grocery stores, dance in Latin nightclubs, eat in Greektown, take German classes at the Alliance Francais, and visit friends and family in Chinese nursing homes but, often times, it's THE SAME PERSON!

Chicago maintains a lot of very diverse neighborhoods but, unlike many other cities, people cross these ethnic boundaries on a regular basis. Chicago ethnic neighborhoods, although they maintain their traditions, are still very Chicago in character (the Chinatown tea house will sell you roughly the same latte as the Argo outside of Wicked; guitar players are singing the same songs in lunchtime restaurants whether they're in a Greek restaurant in a Swedish or in an Swedish restaurant in an Irish neighborhood; and we're all trying to get a volleyball court on North Avenue beach on a sunny Saturday afternoon). Chicago is heterogeneous, America is heterogeneous, but it's not accurate to say that Americans don't have their own particular character (and, outside of a small minority of political opportunists, we don't call ourselves "Anglo-Saxon").

I also suspect that Samaranch Jr.'s comments more reflect his position on as a major supporter of Madrid 2016 than an unbiased assessment of the IOC.

CHItown '16

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I agree, that most immigrants who come here feel compelled to assimilate to a degree. Back in the late 1800's through to about the 1930's and 40's immigrants shuttered much of their culture, but it seems that immigrants who came here over the past thirty years do not take on American culture as much as immigrants used to. Of course each each region of the country has their small cultural differences as well.

I feel proud to be from a city with such diversity. I love walking down the street and hearing 4-5 different languages and experiencing a taste of the world right in my own backyard.

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Back in the late 1800's through to about the 1930's and 40's immigrants shuttered much of their culture, but it seems that immigrants who came here over the past thirty years do not take on American culture as much as immigrants used to.

Well, that's because there's that whole liberal 'keep your national identity' B/S these days. I am first generation myself. To a certain extent, I disagree with that mindset. If you want to make your life in a new setting, you pretty much learn as the locals, adapt to their ways, values, etc. I mean "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" still holds. Of course, yeah. you keep part of your old identity -- it's good for all those knic-knacks and decor at home... (just kidding) -- which you can't erase anyway.

But why move to a new country if you aren't going to shed the old ways and just live and look at the world like you did before? Kinda provincial and parochial.

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Baron, I see your point. I think my view of the U.S. in regards to culture is a bit different than someone in lets say, Italy. Here in the U.S. our culture was basically founded on a plethora of cultures coming together under one flag. Now I know some argue that the American culture is sterile, and that our culture is to promote each individual's culture, but with an Americana feel to it (if that makes any sense).

I can understand why people may view things the way you do, but I am fine with people keeping their culture as long as they can speak English and be a contributor to our way of life. Also, people need to be hygienic! It is not too much to ask for someone to take a shower at least every other day (it gets hard on the train some times when BO sits right next to you). :mellow:

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I agree, that most immigrants who come here feel compelled to assimilate to a degree. Back in the late 1800's through to about the 1930's and 40's immigrants shuttered much of their culture, but it seems that immigrants who came here over the past thirty years do not take on American culture as much as immigrants used to. Of course each each region of the country has their small cultural differences as well.

I feel proud to be from a city with such diversity. I love walking down the street and hearing 4-5 different languages and experiencing a taste of the world right in my own backyard.

Often, people on the other side of the political divide from me (I'm one of those progressive types, by the way) tend to view recent immigrants as significantly less cooperative than immigrants from earlier in the country's history. According to a number of recent studies, this isn't really true--throughout our 225 year history, new immigrants have been criticized for speaking their native language, continuing their customs, avoiding assimilation into the culture of the U.S. (this was certainly the case with Irish, then German, then Polish, then Greek, then Russian, then Chinese, then Caribbean, then Mexican, and will likely continue as long as there is a part of the world that doesn't already have a lot of people here) It happens with every generation of new immigrants and, just as quickly, is forgotten as the next generation of immigrants arrives with a new language and new new customs and the last generation joins the others in fretting over how resistant the new immigrants are. And the political pundits of the generation make a point of magnifying differences and developing fear of the new immigrants.

Admittedly, I do feel perplexed a bit when a new immigrant asks a non-ethnic store clerk, in his language, if the clerk speaks his language. In someone else country, I at least try to be respectful enough to learn how to manage a check out line in the native language or how to ask if they speak English in their language. Sometimes, I'm successful sometime not but at least I'm trying.

CHItown '16

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Baron, I see your point. I think my view of the U.S. in regards to culture is a bit different than someone in lets say, Italy. Here in the U.S. our culture was basically founded on a plethora of cultures coming together under one flag. Now I know some argue that the American culture is sterile, and that our culture is to promote each individual's culture, but with an Americana feel to it (if that makes any sense).

I can understand why people may view things the way you do, but I am fine with people keeping their culture as long as they can speak English and be a contributor to our way of life. Also, people need to be hygienic! It is not too much to ask for someone to take a shower at least every other day (it gets hard on the train some times when BO sits right next to you). :mellow:

Do you think inmigrants are less higienic than "natives" in USA?

:blink::unsure:

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Indeed all cities are multicultural in every sense, but do keep in mind Chicago is a very heterogenous society. As Soaring Higher suggests, the city is home to thousands of different ethnic backgrounds. The reason that Chicago, and for that matter the United States maintains its heterogenous society is that immigrants, legal or not, do not have to assimilate in the American society. People are known to be born, live and die not knowing how to speak English or attend English-speaking schools, or encounter "Americans." This is the very same reason why the immigration debate is such a controversial topic among politicians. Interestingly, the United States does not have an official language. But it's not just the language too, but also the lifestyle. You can have a child in a Swedish hospital, attend a British school, shop at a Polish grocery store, eat in Greektown, attend service at a Haitian church, work at a Cambodian bakery, retire in a Chinese nursing home, have a wake at an Armenian funeral home, and be buried in a Jewish cemetery.

Also Madrid have a very heterogenous society TOO. Told you. 20% of foreigners. Chicago only 8% registered.

Foreign culture alive, cause of recent inmigration from all over the world. CRISOL of cultures.

Believe it or not. ;)

Fairplay

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Do you think inmigrants are less higienic than "natives" in USA?

:blink::unsure:

Oh boy -- HERE WE GO AGAIN!!

There ARE some nationalities, because of their diet, have STRONGER body odors than others. At the same time, there are also some US citizens, both black, white and Hispanic (mostly the homeless and the mentally imbalanced), who also reek and smell like sh**t. But not to worry, ALL Olympic cities banish all these 'smelly' people come the time of the Games anyway.

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Oh boy -- HERE WE GO AGAIN!!

There ARE some nationalities, because of their diet, have STRONGER body odors than others. At the same time, there are also some US citizens, both black, white and Hispanic (mostly the homeless and the mentally imbalanced), who also reek and smell like sh**t.

Baron, you said exactly what I would have said.

Fairplay - just curious, where are you from?

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Is Samaranch jr. allowed to say these things about Chicago? Seems to be very close to the line of what is allowed and what is not. Many would agree with his claims about another Anglophone country following London - although personally I'm sure they'd be very different.

If the IOC wanted a truely distinctive culture following Athens, Beijing and London, they'd opt for Rio over Madrid. If they wanted a secure financial Games they'd opt for Tokyo.

Madrid is capable, but it's still Europe, and it's still Spain - they can't use the rotation angle anymore than the US can; 1992 and 1996 were not a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away......

I agree with the thought of distinctive culture being Rio but as to Financially Secure ? Japan has a debt load of 200 percent debt to annual GDP. The other three candidate countries are much much lower . Japan is a huge economy but again a recession that will come post London 2012 can complicate things for all but especially for those with the least ability to Borrow . That could be Japan in 2012-2013.

None of these places with throw the games back but an Athens 2004 Yellow Alert for the IOC is more likely in Japan then the other three candidates.

Jim Jones

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Anglo-Saxon? Chicago is highly diverse and I think more German, Polish, African, Italian, and Irish when it comes to Chicago. London, too, is very multi-cultural and diverse. It is a rather weak argument.

And Ironically A great number of hispanics in the Chicago Area as well. The comment by Junior is really out of line

Jim Jones

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I have to agree. If the choice of host city was an Executive board decision, Madrid would be my choice.

But here is the problem you don't look at from the Board Room is that Athens 2004 and Torino 2006 Lost huge amounts of Money for the Company's Main revenue source Being the NBC universal/GE partnership . A contract renewal is in the balance on this as 2014 is the end of NBC's Term . London 2012 is likely to be a bath of RED ink for American TV the biggest fund provider of The Company IOC.

The European Broadcasting Union has benefited from Athens 2004 paying half of what NBC does for a Largest viewership. The EBU will do the same with London 2012. Now long can the games be in Bad timezones before the Gravy Train from America ceases ?

The Board room of the IOC certainly knows this beyond it is the American Hemispheres turn argument . It is the time to return to the area where we make most of our money from . That can include Rio simply via geographic advantage for the eastern time zone of the US. Madrid and Tokyo can have perfect bids technically but their timing are both bad with competitors that can provide much more money via increased US tv rights and Sponsorship

Jim Jones

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London 2012 is likely to be a bath of RED ink for American TV the biggest fund provider of The Company IOC.

Jim Jones

Probably not for London. The US and the UK have very strong ties so I think a lot of people will be watching the events happening in London. I mean outside of North America, I think most U.S. citizens travel to the UK whether for business or pleasure.

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For me, considering that the US is not the most popular country overseas, I hope that President Obama's personal popularity will be able to help negate some of that negative goodwill. Whether he can seal the win for Chicago or not, who knows. Ideally, I want it to come down to the actual bid itself but of course politics will always intervene.

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Baron, you said exactly what I would have said.

Fairplay - just curious, where are you from?

Ugh.

As Americans, we do have a different expectation of how we present ourselves in public--most people I know shower at least once a day and, sometimes, several times a day during warmer weather. And this expectation can be very different from other country's. And, the difference in that expectations can sometimes be evident.

In the spirit of "When in Rome, do as the Romans," Americans are much friendlier when visitors make use of our always available showers and bath products. That said, everyone has a right to do as they wish but we would appreciate it if they'd allow us to get past to get to the back of the bus. But, it's rather rude to call out people (or particular ethnic groups) in general about this.

CHItown '16

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Probably not for London. The US and the UK have very strong ties so I think a lot of people will be watching the events happening in London. I mean outside of North America, I think most U.S. citizens travel to the UK whether for business or pleasure.

I don't think it is a a simple matter of lack of interest but of 9pm to 11pm evening competitions on London time being around the Supper Hour per primetime TV hours in America. You have the local news that will not budge Because that is the local stations bread and butter for ADS. during the Supper hour News Broadcasts you basically hear with the sports portion of the Program "ok if you don't want to know what happened at the olympics before it airs on the network tonite . Live suspense is the largest reason to watch and people don't watch during those hours like they do past 8 pm .

your correct like always in regards to London being a very familiar place for Americans without much mystery or surprise. I know people tuned into Beijing for a combination of reasons . A. Who does not dream of visiting that country in America which is way more of a leap then visiting Europe, 2008 was probably the only chance for people in America on mass to see Beijing and China on Tv in something live B. The Organizing committee ran your big Tv audience events early and so they were live in primetime for America. With London , Torino , Athens you basically would be talking about 1 am to 3am in the Morning which is not going to happen as it is hard logically and probably a failure for local crowds coming to fill the seats.

Rio does not have that problem and Chicago of course doesn't. Madrid Same problem as London , Torino or Athens 4 hours ahead of New York makes for poor ratings because you cant do what Beijing did with those swimming and gymnastics events running them in the Beijing Morning . This had a snow ball effect for Watercooler talk the next morning in America. 3 out of 4 summer olympics in Europe from 2004 to 2016 is not going to happen , Add two of the three Winter games to that and there are losses for the TV in America and the same goes for the sponsors who piggie back commercial during the Games . IE Coke , Mc Donalds, GE and others. you can't have a 800 million dollar outlay for NBC and then a return to the well with a bad situation . The IOc is pushing for high broadcast rights and the Delay for 2016 US right until after the host city is chosen is a message from the Executive to the Rank and File Members. It is slanted towards Chicago really but Rio could be the second choice. The USOC has also signaled with a withdrawing of 2018 as a bid possibility for the winter games . Leave us without 2016 Chicago being a reality and you will not get what you desire out of American TV. A huge increase in US broadcast fees . Rio presents a possible curiosity factor like Beijing for Americans who have little exposure to that city really.

Chicago well tuning into to see soccer in Soldier Field ? dont the Bears Play There ? nothing exotic about the place that Waynes World , Uncle Buck and Planes Trains and Automobiles used for a movie backdrop . Same goes for London with quite a bit of Popular Culture Exposure

Jim jones

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Chicago well tuning into to see soccer in Soldier Field ? dont the Bears Play There ? nothing exotic about the place that Waynes World , Uncle Buck and Planes Trains and Automobiles used for a movie backdrop . Same goes for London with quite a bit of Popular Culture Exposure

This would really only affect their pre-season Games, and Soldier Field has a very good back drop of the city. It was completely renovated several years ago. Now, US interest in soccer is a whole other topic...

Yes, Chicago will probably not seem as "exciting" as Rio or Tokyo, but I do feel Chicago has the most potential to benefit from the exposure, just as Sydney and Barcelona benefited.

JJ, have you ever been to Chicago in the last 10 years? It is more than a city from Wayne's World or Uncle Buck. Although I am proud to say that the Dark Knight was filmed here because it has one of the best skylines in the world.

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Umm.

This is a bit inaccurate. People who live in Chicago do attend Swedish hospitals, shop at Polish grocery stores, dance in Latin nightclubs, eat in Greektown, take German classes at the Alliance Francais, and visit friends and family in Chinese nursing homes but, often times, it's THE SAME PERSON!

Chicago maintains a lot of very diverse neighborhoods but, unlike many other cities, people cross these ethnic boundaries on a regular basis. Chicago ethnic neighborhoods, although they maintain their traditions, are still very Chicago in character (the Chinatown tea house will sell you roughly the same latte as the Argo outside of Wicked; guitar players are singing the same songs in lunchtime restaurants whether they're in a Greek restaurant in a Swedish or in an Swedish restaurant in an Irish neighborhood; and we're all trying to get a volleyball court on North Avenue beach on a sunny Saturday afternoon). Chicago is heterogeneous, America is heterogeneous, but it's not accurate to say that Americans don't have their own particular character (and, outside of a small minority of political opportunists, we don't call ourselves "Anglo-Saxon").

I also suspect that Samaranch Jr.'s comments more reflect his position on as a major supporter of Madrid 2016 than an unbiased assessment of the IOC.

CHItown '16

As previously stated, Chicago is a heterogenous society and my previous statement is derived from an immigrant's perspective looking in at an American society, rather than an American looking out. There's no denial that Americans in general do not have a cultural character. My "Swedish hospital to Jewish cemetery" sample is indeed just an example of diversity in which I was painting a picture of one cultural group is able to stay within its cultural boundaries from cradle to grave if one wishes to do so. It would be boring to list just one example from one cultural group when we have all kinds of ethnicities present in the city. I believe the US is half melting pot, half salad bowl.

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Chicago well tuning into to see soccer in Soldier Field ? dont the Bears Play There ? nothing exotic about the place that Waynes World , Uncle Buck and Planes Trains and Automobiles used for a movie backdrop . Same goes for London with quite a bit of Popular Culture Exposure

Jim jones

The Bears have their preseason preps at Halas Hall in Lake Forest-a northshore suburb of Chicago. They don't actually use it until September. Soldier Field during the months of summer is practically open for anything, from special Mexican soccer league championships to rock/pop concerts.

FYI, the BBQued cars featured in a Wayne's World scene is long gone. It was demolished to make way for a pharmacy store. Generally, Chicago has completely transformed in ten years or so, with parts of the city that are unrecognizable to someone who hasn't visited in years. But as usual, the Hollywood film, Public Enemy with Johnny Depp would revert back to the old gangster image of Chicago...

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