TORONTO 2016

[Athensfan]

IF[/b]the USOC chooses not to bid for 2016, Toronto should seriously think about going all in. But that is a very big "if".

[Expect the World]

3 things have to be accomplished in order for Toronto to be in the race...

USOC Committee chairman Peter Ueberroth says no to the Olympics in the US...

David Miller loses in Toronto municipal election...

and the COC decides Toronto over Montreal.

[Kenadian]

Well, first the COC has to decide to enter the race.  No bid proceedes without the support of its NOC.

[dave199]

3 things have to be accomplished in order for Toronto to be in the race...

USOC Committee chairman Peter Ueberroth says no to the Olympics in the US...

David Miller loses in Toronto municipal election...

and the COC decides Toronto over Montreal.

Even if the U.S. submits a bid, that wouldn't be something to keep Toronto from putting forth a bid.

David Miller is a big supporter for a Toronto Expo. He also supports an Olympics in Toronto but would rather have an Expo. If he is re-elected, Toronto will not be in the race for 2016. His future as Toronto mayor looks a little foggy so there is a chance we will have a new mayor by the end of this year.

The COC would never choose Montreal over Toronto.

[dave199]

I'm trying to find a time table for the 2016 bid selection process. It seems like I can't find it anywhere. Does anyone know it?

[Expect the World]

Try searching on the main IOC site (www.olympics.org). Look for the section that might say, "Bidding Applications for Summer Olympics 2016" or "XXXI Olympiad" or something like that. You might find an itinerary of all the events heading up to Decision Day.

If you can't find it, I can tell right now that all applications are expected to be officially submitted in 2007. The winning bid will be announced in the summer of 2009 during the 121st IOC Session in Copenhagen, Denmark.

[Expect the World]

I really think any benefit Toronto may think it had due to previous bids has been lost with the success of the Vancouver bid - the Canadian NOC had a choice whether to pursue a Summer Games with Toronto or a Winter Games with Vancouver, they made their choice.  Toronto doesn't have to wait, but it is unlikely to be successful - recent contests (and most likely 2016 too) for the Summer Games have shown shortlists of cities all capable of a very successful Olympics, the IOC will therefore be searching for excuses to discount individual candidates - a Winter Games just a few months after the election would be just such an opportunity to discount Toronto.

First, Toronto has successfully made the shortlist twice in the previous 2 bids. So there is no question in my mind that they are capable of hosting the Olympics.

Secondly, Toronto would need to convince the IOC that we play a different drum than Vancouver. Of there's the nature, the history, and aboriginal culture that is represented in Canada with the Vancouver bid. But Toronto needs to show its raw urbanism, the technology, the savvyness and the multiculturalism! Something that Vancouver lacks.

[dave199]

Well I roughly came up with the time table for the bid process. It may be incorrect but I'm basing dates and time periods in between based on the 2012 Time schedule. For 2016, the host city will be decided in October 2009. It's listed on Gamesbids 2016 section. Therefore, the schedule should look like this:

Summer/Fall 2007 - NOC's to inform the IOC of the name of an applicant city (by letter)

April 2008 - Applicant Cities to reply to IOC questionnaire

July 2008 - Short list announced

August8-24 2008 - Candidate City Observer Programme at the Games of the XXVIX Olympiad in Beijing

February 2009 -  Candidature files submitted to IOC

May - June 2009 - Visits of the IOC evaluation committee to the Candidate Cities

September 2009 - Evaluation commission report released

October 2009 - Copenhagen, Denmark

[Expect the World]

Summer/Fall 2007 - NOC's to inform the IOC of the name of an applicant city (by letter)

I'm a little concerned that if this event falls before the municipal election, then Toronto can kiss their Olympic hopes goodbye. If it's after the election then Toronto has a chance...that is if David Miller is not mayor next term.

[mr.x]

I have no doubt on Toronto's capability to host the Summer Olympics.  Yes, the country would have been better off with hosting the Summer Games - gaining summer venues for our athletes - as suppose to gaining more winter sport infrastructure, which we already have in abundance.  And Toronto would have had a ton of new infrastructure built - all of which is desperately needed.

But put it into reality, bidding and hoping to win another Olympics 6 years after the last one is a bit too much. All of Canada's resources and some of the nation's most powerful corporations (RBC, Bell, Petro) are all focusing on Vancouver.  VANOC and TO's OCOG would  be fighting over each other for attention, ideas, and resources, and Vancouver would be an after thought of the Toronto Games (just take a look at the media: TSN may as well be Toronto Sports Network, and CBC and CTV are completely Eastern Canada biased).

Secondly, Toronto would need to convince the IOC that we play a different drum than Vancouver. Of there's the nature, the history, and aboriginal culture that is represented in Canada with the Vancouver bid. But Toronto needs to show its raw urbanism, the technology, the savvyness and the multiculturalism! Something that Vancouver lacks.

What do you take us for?  And what history???  During the bidding proccess, Vancouver used the multiculturalism and cosmopolitan card quite a bit.

And lets put an emphasize on bid.  Lets face it, Vancouver will be pouring out Canada's heart and soul in culture.    These are also marketed "Canada's Games"......then what the hel! would Toronto be?  Toronto would have no choice but to repeat what Vancouver did.  None of this 2016 idea in Canada is refreshing, perhaps even a bit tiring.

I'd really love to see a Games in Toronto, but the truth is that won't be happening anytime soon.  At the very very earliest: 2020.  More likely 2024 or 2028 however.  The fact is that geopolitics clearly paved a road for Vancouver's win.....Salzburg lost 2010 in the first round of voting because the European delegates had Summer Games intentions for their nation.  Don't deny this, it's nothing more than a fact.

Toronto could bid for 2016, if it receives COC approval (which i think is a 50/50), but after going through the shortlist that's as far as i think the bid will get.  Failing to win would just be another Olympic embarassment and dissapointment for the city, and would hurt Vancouver a little being that for a short period all of Canada's Olympic attention would be focused on Toronto.  

The best path for Toronto I think is to continue on with its Expo 2015 bid and go on from there.

[splinterhead]

and the COC decides Toronto over Montreal.

Has their been talk of Montreal bidding?  Are the '76 games paid for yet?  Imagine the speculation and talk if it were to bid, let alone win!

[mr.x]

and the COC decides Toronto over Montreal.

Has their been talk of Montreal bidding?  Are the '76 games paid for yet?  Imagine the speculation and talk if it were to bid, let alone win!

There was talk by Montreal's mayor last year to bid for the Olympic Summer Games, as a way to erase Montreal's image as the city with the big fat Olympic debt and a way to do something with Olympic Stadium.

[dave199]

Summer/Fall 2007 - NOC's to inform the IOC of the name of an applicant city (by letter)

I'm a little concerned that if this event falls before the municipal election, then Toronto can kiss their Olympic hopes goodbye. If it's after the election then Toronto has a chance...that is if David Miller is not mayor next term.

The municipal election will be taking place Fall 2006. I'm not too sure about the Provincial elections but I know they will be taking place in 2007. It could happen in the Summer or Fall.

[Kenadian]

The idea of Montreal 2016 was raised temporarily in the champagne haziness of the celebrations following the successful aquatic world championships last year.  But like a champagne hangover, it faded soon, unlike Montreal's Olympic hangover.

[dave199]

and the COC decides Toronto over Montreal.

Has their been talk of Montreal bidding?  Are the '76 games paid for yet?  Imagine the speculation and talk if it were to bid, let alone win!

Montreal's mayor brought the issue up right after the city hosted the FINA World Aquatic Championships last summer. I doubt that the city will actually put forth a bid. The citizens of Montreal still have a bad taste in their mouth from '76. I believe they will have paid off their debt from those games sometime this year, 30 years later.

[dave199]

But put it into reality, bidding and hoping to win another Olympics 6 years after the last one is a bit too much. All of Canada's resources and some of the nation's most powerful corporations (RBC, Bell, Petro) are all focusing on Vancouver.  VANOC and TO's OCOG would  be fighting over each other for attention, ideas, and resources, and Vancouver would be an after thought of the Toronto Games (just take a look at the media: TSN may as well be Toronto Sports Network, and CBC and CTV are completely Eastern Canada biased).

Yes, it can be a bit too much. I agree with you on that note. But to say that Toronto would be fighting with Vancouver for attention is completely ridiculous. I'm sure a common ground could be met. Toronto has enough corporate support within its own city and on the East coast that it doesn't even need all the sponsors that Vancouver has piled up at this moment. Did Salt Lake City take anything away from Atlanta before and during the 1996 Olympics? I would like to hear an American perspective on this issue. Was there any tension or rivilaries between SLC and Atlanta during that time?

And lets put an emphasize on bid.  Lets face it, Vancouver will be pouring out Canada's heart and soul in culture.    These are also marketed "Canada's Games"......then what the hel! would Toronto be?  Toronto would have no choice but to repeat what Vancouver did.  None of this 2016 idea in Canada is refreshing, perhaps even a bit tiring.

Here my friend, you are wrong!! It wouldn't necessarily be tagged Canada's games even though they will be. But if you followed Toronto 2008 bid, their slogan was "Expect the World", therefore, a possible Toronto Olympics would be the World's games, an Olympics right in a backyard in one of the world's most multi cultural cities. It wouldn't be played out as you put it.

I'd really love to see a Games in Toronto, but the truth is that won't be happening anytime soon.  At the very very earliest: 2020.  More likely 2024 or 2028 however.  The fact is that geopolitics clearly paved a road for Vancouver's win.....Salzburg lost 2010 in the first round of voting because the European delegates had Summer Games intentions for their nation.  Don't deny this, it's nothing more than a fact.

No one can deny this. It's been said numerous times but Toronto does have the option of bidding and the possibility of taking a chance this time around even though the cards may be stacked against them. No one can deny a possible superior bid from Toronto, if they bid I'm sure it will be the best of the bunch. But as it's been repeated many times, geopolitics do not favour the city.

Mr.X, just curious, let's say Toronto does put forth a bid. Will you support it since your an avid Vancouver 2010 supporter?

[Expect the World]

And lets put an emphasize on bid.  Lets face it, Vancouver will be pouring out Canada's heart and soul in culture.    These are also marketed "Canada's Games"......then what the hel! would Toronto be?  Toronto would have no choice but to repeat what Vancouver did.  None of this 2016 idea in Canada is refreshing, perhaps even a bit tiring.

Perhaps. But then again, Toronto isn't Vancouver. I personally am not going to rival Vancouver with regards to what we have and don't have. But I will say that I'm in awe on the progress Toronto has made throughout the years.

Like some cities in Canada, Toronto started with the English, Irish, Scottish, and French. Then came the Italians and the Jewish who became the first entrepreneurs. Many of the names echo Italian and Jewish descendents. Degrassi, Reichmann, Lombardi, Znaimer and Jewison. Then came the Polish, Dutch, Germans, and Ukranians. And as populations grew, and the new innovations such as Insulin was discovered. Toronto become the industrial place. A place to do business. Toronto became a name on the map.

More people would come to this place. And many immigrants from the West Indies, India, Pakistan, and all of South East Asia have come to settle, creating neighbourhoods like Little Italy, Greektown (Danforth), Chinatown, Koreatown, and Cabbagetown. Subways, streetcars, buses, and taxi have created this complex network of transportation. Innovation zooms from one place to another at the speed sound.

Toronto builds itself gradually with over 2,057 building projects in total, 1,644 completed, 206 proposed, 85 approved, and 51 under construction. Toronto has become a renaissance with Frank Gerhy and Daniel Libenskend designing the Art Gallery of Ontario and the Royal Ontario Museum.

Toronto has over dozens of festivals including Caribana, North by Northeast Music Festival, the Molson Indy, the Toronto Film Festival, the Toronto Jazz Festival, Canadian National Exhibition, and the Santa Claus Parade.

Toronto has over hundreds of museums and galleries, as well as many restaurants, nightclubs, pubs, spas, hotels, and shopping centres. It has become the 3rd largest theatre district, and has the 3nd largest entertainment capital next to New York and Los Angeles.

Toronto is the design, media, and business hub of all of Canada. The TSX runs the market from dawn till dusk. The Ontario College of Art and Design and the Design Exchange are two of Canada's top design institution. Toronto is the biggest media outlet in the world with over hundreds or TV, cable, radio, web, newspaper and magazine companies all situtated here.

But if you deny the fact that Toronto has all of this, then come take a look at this thread...

     Please click here!

[mr.x]

But to say that Toronto would be fighting with Vancouver for attention is completely ridiculous. I'm sure a common ground could be met. Toronto has enough corporate support within its own city and on the East coast that it doesn't even need all the sponsors that Vancouver has piled up at this moment. Did Salt Lake City take anything away from Atlanta before and during the 1996 Olympics?

Do you want to play it safe or do you want to take a gamble?

America has 10 times as many people and its economy is much larger than ours.  They have a countless number of corporate sponsors.

Mr.X, just curious, let's say Toronto does put forth a bid. Will you support it since your an avid Vancouver 2010 supporter?

It is in Canada's best interest to give all it has to Vancouver before jumping onto another (and it's in Toronto's best interest to wait into the future and go for something else, like Expo 2015).

We're all Canadian.  I would support Toronto 2016, but not as much as I would like to as it would hinder what should be the focus in Canada:  Vancouver.  Though, I would be nowhere optimistic about the odds of winning.

Yes, Toronto should be the city hosting the Games in Canada but lets put that aside now and face reality.  We have to give Vancouver every advantage we are able to give and focus everything we've got on these Games for the foreseeable future.

Obviously, I'd give Toronto my full support for Expo....though the fair has passed its golden days, it still can do wonders to the host city.  Just look at what it has done to Vancouver, 1986.

Dave, Expect the World.  You do both realize that Vancouver will be using the multicultural card abundantly during its Olympics?

Whether or not it's the English, Irish, Scottish, French, Chinese, Japanese, Italians, Greeks, etc..... all of it is still multiculturalism.

[Stu]

I really think any benefit Toronto may think it had due to previous bids has been lost with the success of the Vancouver bid - the Canadian NOC had a choice whether to pursue a Summer Games with Toronto or a Winter Games with Vancouver, they made their choice.  Toronto doesn't have to wait, but it is unlikely to be successful - recent contests (and most likely 2016 too) for the Summer Games have shown shortlists of cities all capable of a very successful Olympics, the IOC will therefore be searching for excuses to discount individual candidates - a Winter Games just a few months after the election would be just such an opportunity to discount Toronto.

First, Toronto has successfully made the shortlist twice in the previous 2 bids. So there is no question in my mind that they are capable of hosting the Olympics.

Secondly, Toronto would need to convince the IOC that we play a different drum than Vancouver. Of there's the nature, the history, and aboriginal culture that is represented in Canada with the Vancouver bid. But Toronto needs to show its raw urbanism, the technology, the savvyness and the multiculturalism! Something that Vancouver lacks.

True, Toronto has successfully made the shortlist on two occasions, however, it is not in the position that Beijing was in or that Paris will probably be in next time - Toronto wasn't narrowly defeated, it was trounced.....twice.  There is no question of Toronto having the capabilities to host the Summer Olympics and no question that they could be a phenomenal Games.  The problem Toronto would have, and this was the point I was trying to make earlier, is that the shortlist would have four other cities all capable of a phenomenal Olympics - just as capable as Toronto.  The shortlist for 2012 is an obvious example of this, but many of the cities already considering a 2016 bid are just as capable, and in some cases just as glamorous, as those who bid for 2012.  Tokyo, Rome, Madrid, New York - they are all large and relatively wealthy cities.  The European cities would struggle due to London 2012, but I see no reason why Tokyo would struggle due to Beijing 2008 (Tokyo is one of the worlds "big four" and obviously wealthy enough to hold the Olympics - Asia is over half the world's population so another Olympics within eight years is hardly disproportionate, especially as they will have only hosted three Summer Games before 2016).  An American city would be an obvious early favourite, by the vote in 2009 much of the anti-American feeling around the world would hopefully have eased and there is no question that the Americans can put on a good show (as long as they avoid the tacky/Atlanta approach).  Add to that list Toronto, a very well-known city but not at the same level of celebrity as New York, Tokyo or Rome and possibly even Madrid, then add to that Vancouver 2010 less than a year from the 2009 Copenhagen election and add to that a possible Hamilton Commonwealth Games - I really think Toronto would struggle to gain support from the IOC membership.

Toronto is a city that I've heard many positive things - my brother spent quite a bit of time there in the 1990's and my parents will be holidaying there and Vancouver later this year.  I'm sure Toronto has a very different atmosphere to Vancouver - but that's irrelevant, it's still Canada, and as someone not from Canada I would consider them to have more similarities than they do differences.  

Look on the bright side; if the USOC choose Chicago, well that's virtually Canada anyway!

   :wwww:

[Expect the World]

The problem Toronto would have, and this was the point I was trying to make earlier, is that the shortlist would have four other cities all capable of a phenomenal Olympics - just as capable as Toronto.  The shortlist for 2012 is an obvious example of this, but many of the cities already considering a 2016 bid are just as capable, and in some cases just as glamorous, as those who bid for 2012.  Tokyo, Rome, Madrid, New York - they are all large and relatively wealthy cities.

Don't try to underestimate Toronto as not being as glamourous as other cities. Toronto IS glamourous! It is up there with New York, London, Los Angeles as being one of the entertainment capitals of the world! The Toronto International Film Festival is 2nd only to Cannes. The theatre district is 3rd largest next to New York and London. And the major studio project that is on the waterfront will be the biggest in North America!

An American city would be an obvious early favourite, by the vote in 2009 much of the anti-American feeling around the world would hopefully have eased and there is no question that the Americans can put on a good show (as long as they avoid the tacky/Atlanta approach).

As long as Toronto's a liberal hotzone, and the fact that the US continues the fight for the "War on Terrorism", this Anti-Americanism will be brought up again and again.

add to that Vancouver 2010 less than a year from the 2009 Copenhagen election and add to that a possible Hamilton Commonwealth Games - I really think Toronto would struggle to gain support from the IOC membership.

As a Hamiltonian, I would really love to see Steeltown hosting to Commonwealth Games sometime in the future. But the reality is that Halifax might take the games out of Hamilton's hands leaving another games in Canada, "too soon after Halifax." I just hope and pray Halifax loses to England or Scotland (that is if they bid).

[mr.x]

As a Hamiltonian, I would really love to see Steeltown hosting to Commonwealth Games sometime in the future. But the reality is that Halifax might take the games out of Hamilton's hands leaving another games in Canada, "too soon after Halifax." I just hope and pray Halifax loses to England or Scotland (that is if they bid).

well gee, that's quite selfish.  I'm wondering now why the hel! should I even be supporting a Toronto Olympic bid if this is how it's suppose to go.

Halifax will bring more benefits to Canada than Hamilton hosting would......and since when did Halifax throw itself a party?  Halifax needs this, Hamilton doesn't.

Forget Toronto 2016, there's a better chance that every forum member in GamesBids would win the lottery sometime during their life. It won't happen and would be a wasted effort.

[dave199]

This is sort of offtopic but still related to Toronto.

I can't wait for this baby to be built. Trump International made such a great video. You guys should check it out.

http://www.trumptoronto.ca/movie_files/trumpto_movie.htm

[dave199]

As a Hamiltonian, I would really love to see Steeltown hosting to Commonwealth Games sometime in the future. But the reality is that Halifax might take the games out of Hamilton's hands leaving another games in Canada, "too soon after Halifax." I just hope and pray Halifax loses to England or Scotland (that is if they bid).

well gee, that's quite selfish.  I'm wondering now why the hel! should I even be supporting a Toronto Olympic bid if this is how it's suppose to go.

Halifax will bring more benefits to Canada than Hamilton hosting would......and since when did Halifax throw itself a party?  Halifax needs this, Hamilton doesn't.

Forget Toronto 2016, there's a better chance that every forum member in GamesBids would win the lottery sometime during their life. It won't happen and would be a wasted effort.

Mr.X, your stupid. Just because one person says that doesn't mean everyone else believes the same thing. But what can you expect from a child.

Anyways, I don't know why Hamilton was brought up since they don't have the nod to as Canada's bidding city for 2014 Commonwealth games.

I also believe that Halifax would benefit more from a CWG than Hamilton would. They would be able to get a new stadium which then would lead to the city getting a CFL franchise.

[Stu]

Don't try to underestimate Toronto as not being as glamourous as other cities. Toronto IS glamourous!

I didn't say Toronto wasn't glamorous, I said that there were many other glamorous cities interested in applying for the 2016 Olympics.  The problem for Toronto will be that there will be four other major cities in the shortlist just as capable as Toronto but having not staged a Summer or Winter Olympics for a number of years if ever.  I even think that Torino 2006 will be a possible disadvantage to a Rome bid so Vancouver will almost certainly be a reason for some IOC members to think of placing their votes elsewhere - there will be candidates, like Tokyo, who haven't staged either Winter or Summer Games for some time by 2009 despite being capable of a very successful event.

I have nothing against Toronto trying, it's just that they will be facing an uphill struggle to convince many people that it is their turn before Vancouver 2010 has even occured.

[baron-pierreIV]

Don't try to underestimate Toronto as not being as glamourous as other cities. Toronto IS glamourous! It is up there with New York, London, Los Angeles as being one of the entertainment capitals of the world! The Toronto International Film Festival is 2nd only to Cannes. The theatre district is 3rd largest next to New York and London.

That's not what I hear from my cousin there.  It's a business city first and foremost.  Does ET have a correspondent there?  Theatre District - uhmm, I think Tokyo has the 3rd largest theatre district in the world after New York & London.  Film Festival?  I think Toronto is right up there with Sundance and Cannes.   

An American city would be an obvious early favourite, by the vote in 2009 much of the anti-American feeling around the world would hopefully have eased and there is no question that the Americans can put on a good show (as long as they avoid the tacky/Atlanta approach).

As long as Toronto's a liberal hotzone, and the fact that the US continues the fight for the "War on Terrorism", this Anti-Americanism will be brought up again and again.

 Huh?    What does Toronto's liberalism have to do with a US city's chances?  If u want 'liberal' hot zone, then we'll put up San Francisco, and Cindy Sheean will head the bid.

Toronto won't be a viable candidate until maybe 2024.