Jump to content

Philadelphia 2016?


Recommended Posts

So, if it looks like Philadelphia might win the USOC bid, the next step is to elevate its international image, especially in sporting circles by lining up a few World Championships before '09 and a few after that; and/or a Miss Universe hosting in the summer of '09, just before the vote in Copenhagen.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 183
  • Created
  • Last Reply
It looks like Philly has been gaining a lot of momentum lately.

Too early to say ... if nothing else, people are noticing.

True, people were more concerned with Chicago and NYC bids before. It looks like it isn't going to be a easy cakewalk for Chicago as previously thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My one big "problem" with Philly is that they had their big chance to be better known internationally with a World Expo in 1976 to concur with the American Bicentennial.  Instead, for one reason or another, they blew it.  Never did happen.  Now, in the little time left, they're scrambling to build a better international image for the IOC.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another article 'bout the USOC visit to Philadelphia w/a funny picture of Uebby to boot.

Philly grabs for Olympic rings

City, Olympic officials meet to outline basics of bid process

Buy this photo

The News Journal/WILLIAM BRETZGER

Philadelphia Mayor John Street (left) speaks during a press conference before turning the podium over to U.S. Olympic Committee officials Peter Ueberroth (front) and Bob Ctvrtlik.

By KEVIN TRESOLINI

The News Journal

05/10/2006

PHILADELPHIA -- With the stacked red letters spelling out L-O-V-E providing a fitting backdrop, this city officially declared on Tuesday its desire to be the host of the 2016 Summer Olympics. ...

Philly Grabs For Olympic Rings - Delaware Online

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where is the Oympic Stadium going to be ? In the Navy Yards?

Seems having a Stadium suitable for Track and Field is a major hurdle for all candidate cities, especially CHicago.

NYC is out of it basically because it couldn't build a stadium that a city of its stature needs. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One hasto get the complete picture before rendering judgment about Philadelphia.  For one, you can't underestimate the power of labor there.  They can and mostly likely will make life very tough for organizers.  Unlike Athens, Septa employees will not back down from striking at the last minute.  The Olympic ideal does not resonate for the vast majority of Philadelphia citizens.  Yes, it's a great sports town, but US sports, not international.  Another issue is money and organization.  Philadelphia is a relatively poor city with poor organization and an antiquated government system.  It's tough to get things done and is a big reason why the city whiffs when it's on center stage.  The olympics is in a totally separate league from the political conventions and Live 8 - it takes sustained effort over a long period of time.  We'll have to see whether Philadelphia is up for it.

Concerning the map, it's quite hypothetical.  Why put the Olympic Village at the 30th St railyards?  B/c the Amtrack and Septa Station are there?  Perhaps they're banking on Penn to help since they bought the postal lands and are planning to make the area their gateway?  Earlier plans called for the use of Roosevelt Park.  I'm guessing this proposed site is due to it's central location and proximity to downtown, but the location is terrible - total wasteland and gridlock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi guys, long time stalker, first time post'r.

The map everyone including myself seemed to oggle over yesterday and today is again like someone else said in in no way "official".  It was created by the Philadelphia Daily News and their writers and artist.  Not the city spear-heading group, not the city planners and thank God not by the Mayor.  It seems that the more favorable choice for the Olympic stadium and Village would be the Philadelphia Navy Yard ,  It has more than enough space that could be reutilized for other ventures after the Olympics.  It's not just about what "feasible" and "what's already there".  Of course tons will need to be done and for any city construction would be large in scale, but It can be done.  The wealth of the city has nothing to do with it.  Phialdelphia, Chicago, SF, etc.  None of these cities has a spare 4 billion just waiting to be spent.  If the actual bidding is privatized then the actual construction and preparation would not just be a civic task but a state and federal undertaking.  Remeber its not just civic but national pride but of course everyone already knows that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One hasto get the complete picture before rendering judgment about Philadelphia.  For one, you can't underestimate the power of labor there.  They can and mostly likely will make life very tough for organizers.  Unlike Athens, Septa employees will not back down from striking at the last minute.  The Olympic ideal does not resonate for the vast majority of Philadelphia citizens.  Yes, it's a great sports town, but US sports, not international.  Another issue is money and organization.  Philadelphia is a relatively poor city with poor organization and an antiquated government system.  It's tough to get things done and is a big reason why the city whiffs when it's on center stage.  The olympics is in a totally separate league from the political conventions and Live 8 - it takes sustained effort over a long period of time.  We'll have to see whether Philadelphia is up for it.

Concerning the map, it's quite hypothetical.  Why put the Olympic Village at the 30th St railyards?  B/c the Amtrack and Septa Station are there?  Perhaps they're banking on Penn to help since they bought the postal lands and are planning to make the area their gateway?  Earlier plans called for the use of Roosevelt Park.  I'm guessing this proposed site is due to it's central location and proximity to downtown, but the location is terrible - total wasteland and gridlock.

But one cannot also overestimate the power to the point that its influence is larger that it seems.  The labor unions provided the manpower in the building of Philadelphia's Sports Complex, a complex that has been hearlded nationwide, and in the demolishment of Veterans Stadium.  If you wan't to focus on the fact that the unions whined about the Real World house on 3rd & Arch, that's fine, but it not indicative of the normal behavior of the unions in this city.

As for SEPTA, they went on strike because they had to.  I mentioned this earlier in this specfic thread that their latest strike was because they were working under no contract while upper management tried to take away benefits in healthcare and pension; benefits that were in previous SEPTA contract in years past.  If you or anyone else were in the same situation as these SEPTA workers a strike would probably be your decision also.  Besides, the City and State government settled the labor dispute within a week.

As for the your comments about Philadelphia being poor, I would say that you need to have your facts updated.  Philadelphia for the first time in a long time is in a surplus and is having one of the largest housing booms that this city has seen in awhile. If you're talking about the Philadelphia of 1996, I would agree with you, but its 2006 and your point is invalid.

And considering the lack of National "center stage" opportunities this city has been given, it would be hard for me to say that it has "whiffed" on every opportunity since those chances come few and far between.

I've already said that the map is hypothetical and that it has some locations that would probably not be on the official bid (if one is ever submitted).  As for having the Olympic Village at the 30th Street Station Railyards, you have to take into consideration that this map was probably done in haste and that the Daily News was probably looking at large locations where housing could be placed.  With that criteria in mind the railyards seemed like a perfect place to put the housing at due to the available land and central location relative to the rest of the area.

I would rather have the Olympic Village on the campuses of Penn  & Drexel or down by the assumed Olympic Park on the old Naval Yard, where housing has been planned for since the mid-1990's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thrillos, a couple of questions:

1.  we haven't heard about Harrisburg's input in all this?

2.  Where do the 2 PA senators (Spectre and Santorum, right?) stand in all this?

3.  Where is the Army-Navy games usually played?

4.  What are the early conjectures about Olympic stadium?  A brand-new one?

5.  Where is the old S.S. United States now?  Wasn't it docked before in Philly's shipyards?

6.  Where do my cable/internet fees go?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thrillos, a couple of questions:

1.  we haven't heard about Harrisburg's input in all this?

2.  Where do the 2 PA senators (Spectre and Santorum, right?) stand in all this?

3.  Where is the Army-Navy games usually played?

4.  What are the early conjectures about Olympic stadium?  A brand-new one?

5.  Where is the old S.S. United States now?  Wasn't it docked before in Philly's shipyards?

6.  Where do my cable/internet fees go?

The thing about the Philadelphia 2016 Working Group is that they're very good at keeping things "hush-hush" until it's time for that piece of info to come out.  That said, nothing has been said about an Olympic Stadium from the "Group."  I've heard rumblings from commenters on the TV and in reports that Franklin Field could be renovated, but nothing concrete from the "official" sources.

Rendell issued a comment back on May 4 stating:

"As Governor, I am very proud that the U.S. Olympic Committee has chosen to visit a Pennsylvania city that is truly one of the world's great cities. The commonwealth has always been a place where people enthusiastically participate in, celebrate and support all types of sports. Meeting with the USOC will provide the opportunity to showcase Pennsylvania's tremendous assets as an international destination, and we are excited to work with the committee."

Typical blase public-relations response from Big Eddie.  As for Specter and "Tricky Ricky" Santorum, nothing from them.

The Army-Navy Game is hosted at Lincoln Financial Field since it has come back a few years back. Although it's moving to another city for another couple years.

The USS United-States is berthed in South Philly about 10 minutes from the sports complex.  The USS Olympia is docked in Penn's Landing.

As for where your cable/internet fees go, they will soon be going here:

comcastcenter.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thrillos, I like your optimism about Philadelphia.  Unfortunately, mine is tempered by the fact I actually lived in Philadelphia from 1997-2005 and until recently owned two houses in University City.  Trust me, I know the city well and I don't believe it's changed very much in the year since I've moved.  I did the whole nine yards - community associations, architectural committees, etc., etc., etc.  Heck, I was married at Christ Church and am very fond of the city.

That said, I don't think you've fully experienced the culture of the city.  Yeah it's changing, but as recently as several years ago, I had a friend who was trying to start up a business from his house get visited by two goodfellas saying he needed "protection."  WTF?  The Sopranos #### still happens?  You bet, in Philadelphia.  

What you have to understand about Septa is that it is made up of a number of unions.  You don't get a periodic strike from one body.  It's separate entities that usually work independent of each other causing annual or biennial strikes of one kind of the other.  Trust me, after a couple of these nasty strikes, you stop depending on mass transit if you have done so up to that point if financially possible at all - hence you get people who HAVE to ride it making up their ridership.

Compared to any of the 4 other US candidates, Philadelphia is dirt poor.  I still wouldn't buy that it's turned the corner as the job market sucks there and is still largely blue-collar unlike most major US cities.  I'll believe it when more than 5% of the students who graduates from a Philadelphia college actually stays.  The vast majority don't want to stay and those that do can't find a job - trust me, I was on that committee also.  It can easily become a bankrupt city again like when Rendell took over.  If Junior or Doc get elected, that's just one more step in that direction.  I won't get into the railyards or riverfront as some of the info I know comes from closed-door meetings, but it won't work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Typical blase public-relations response from Big Eddie.  

You have read in between the lines and no some of the history from the past 10 years.  Rendell loves the city.  He would almost certainly rather be mayor for life ala Daley of Philadelphia than governor of the great commonwealth.  HOWEVER, Street has rebuffed him numerous times unless he desperately needs money - even then, he's usually too proud.  Why?  In an effort to get out of Rendell's shadow and "be his own man," he's taken it upon himself to do it his way, everyone be damned.  I'm a democrat myself, but do you think Rendell would have endorsed Street, albeit reluctantly, if they both didn't have the big D on their chest?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Typical blase public-relations response from Big Eddie.  

You have read in between the lines and no some of the history from the past 10 years.  Rendell loves the city.  He would almost certainly rather be mayor for life ala Daley of Philadelphia than governor of the great commonwealth.  HOWEVER, Street has rebuffed him numerous times unless he desperately needs money - even then, he's usually too proud.  Why?  In an effort to get out of Rendell's shadow and "be his own man," he's taken it upon himself to do it his way, everyone be damned.  I'm a democrat myself, but do you think Rendell would have endorsed Street, albeit reluctantly, if they both didn't have the big D on their chest?

That comment was really made in jest of Big Eddie, hell I love the guy for everything he's done for the area. BTW I'm a Democrat also.  But I agree, that Street is trying too hard to get out of the shadow of Rendell.  Street has to realize that he's done some great things also, the citywide wireless initiative is one such thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am looking at some of the Philly stadia...

1.  Could Beaver Stadium possibly be converted into Olympic Stadium?  

university_park_beaver2.jpg

With a 107,000+ capacity at present, if they took out the closest ringside sectionto accommodate the track, that would still leave them with 85,000+.  It certainly looks grand enough.

2.  By this photo

philadelphia_franklin2.jpg

when it appears that Franklin Field has a track & a football field, maybe the 2011 IAAF CHamps could be pitched here?  I mean, it's not new, but it does comply with the 50,000 seating minimum?

3.  But if they're talking about Navy Yards, then that means a brand-new stadium is being thought of?  Looks like Beaver Stadium could do for me.  Just enlarge the field, raise it -- and presto, you would have your 85,000+ stadium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, the problem is that Beaver Stadium is almost 200 miles away.  

Franklin Field wouldn't work as an olympic stadium.  It is a historic building and any modifications/additions would be impossible as it's a brick building with huge foundational walls.  It is also hemmed in on each side.  There is a bit of room on the north side but you hit the squash and tennis courts pretty fast.  What little room there is to the north is used for precious parking.  

I think the stadium proposals from each city will go a long way in solidifying their status as a contender.  I don't see how Philadelphia could afford to build a new stadium and watch it sit unused afterwards.  What purpose would it serve that the Linc couldn't do?  Who will pay for its maintenance?  Penn has a historic stadium and it does fine for the Penn Relays and is overkill for any of their programs now.  Villanova is far away.  Temple uses the Linc.  There is no bigtime football program in the immediate area that could utilize it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cato...

Please..you left and lived in one of the most troubled sections of the city.

We are running a surplus and the city has grown in the last year more than the last 2 before.

"Ten new towers—mostly high-end offices and luxury condos—are now under construction. Most not only push this primarily low-lying city skyward, but reimagine its predominately aristocratic architecture and brick structural aesthetic with transparent and dynamic forms. Cesar Pelli, FAIA’s nearly completed, 435-foot Cira Centre, a 28-story, blue-glass-prism office building near 30th Street train station, already alters the city’s skyline and mirrors the cloudscape. Once it is completed in 2007, Robert Stern, FAIA’s 57-story, 975-foot, crystal-like obelisk, the Comcast Center, will be the tallest building between New York and Chicago. (Stern is also designing a high-rise condo on Center City’s Rittenhouse Square.) Solomon Cordwell Buenz’s 43-story, tubelike glass condo complex, The Murano, will be one of the area’s tallest-ever residences, and Wallace Roberts & Todd’s five-tower Waterfront Square complex will be the first of many residential projects slated for the city’s once-all-industrial Delaware River waterfront.

ADVERTISEMENT

Twenty other towers are planned, including Handel Architect’s 485-foot, 44-story condo building dubbed the Residences at the Ritz-Carlton, and Richard Meier, FAIA’s 41-story, 608-foot Mandeville Place, a lithe, glass condo tower that will rise along the recently completed Schuylkill River Pathway.

Driving this downtown makeover, explains AIA Philadelphia Executive Director John Claypool, are two key forces: companies wanting iconic headquarters, and residents wanting previously unavailable high-end housing options. While low interest rates (which are now rising) and a local real estate tax abatement have encouraged development, the condo market is mainly thriving because of increased migration into Center City from the local suburbs, and even from New York (1.5 hours away by train). Recently, 1,350 apartment and condo units opened citywide; 3,574 will open by 2008. Another 7,205 are proposed for completion by 2010. "

http://archrecord.construction.com/news....lly.asp

That's just in the last 2 years.

We're also about a month away from the announcement for the locations of about 1 Billion in casino construction.

http://www.realcities.com/multime....casinos

and ...

"A residential population boom and retail growth power a comeback.

By Joseph A. Slobodzian

Inquirer Staff Writer

A crowd scene at Broad and Chestnut streets. Center City is gaining national recognition as a walkable urban environment, rich in tradition, history and the arts.

Peter Tobia / Inquirer

A crowd scene at Broad and Chestnut streets. Center City is gaining national recognition as a walkable urban environment, rich in tradition, history and the arts.

   * Rising prices threaten neighborhood character

   * Center City schools get special attention

   * Home to young, educated, richest - and the poorest

   * New voters could shake up city politics

   * Slideshow | Center City

   * Part Two | Center City retail resurgence

Frank Plateroti and John Mully could have chosen anywhere for a shared weekend getaway for their affluent North Jersey families.

New York? Too difficult to get in and out.

The Jersey Shore? Too overpriced and good only two seasons a year.

A Philadelphia townhouse at 18th and Montrose? Just right.

Plateroti, 54, a communications consultant with a 16-year-old daughter and a 12-year old son, and Mully, 52, a dentist with an 11-year-old son, chose a new Quincy Court townhouse to be near Center City's arts and culture, restaurants and nightlife, affordability, and big-city life on a human scale. Philadelphia is "rich in history and tradition," and easy to get around, Plateroti said. "It's very culturally rich."

That's an opinion shared by an army of out-of-towners, recent college graduates, and suburban empty-nesters who are swelling Center City's population and remaking its neighborhoods.

Consider the following:

Though Philadelphia as a whole is still losing residents, Center City has the third-largest downtown population after New York and Chicago. Since 2000, its population has increased 11.5 percent, from 78,902 to 88,000. Experts say it could reach 96,000 to 105,000 by 2010.

Retail occupancy in Center City is now at 90 percent - 3 percent higher than 2004. This year, the Urban Land Institute listed Center City among the nation's top 10 for urban retailing."

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/business/13490895.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, the problem is that Beaver Stadium is almost 200 miles away.  

Franklin Field wouldn't work as an olympic stadium.  It is a historic building and any modifications/additions would be impossible as it's a brick building with huge foundational walls.  It is also hemmed in on each side.  There is a bit of room on the north side but you hit the squash and tennis courts pretty fast.  What little room there is to the north is used for precious parking.  

I think the stadium proposals from each city will go a long way in solidifying their status as a contender.  I don't see how Philadelphia could afford to build a new stadium and watch it sit unused afterwards.  What purpose would it serve that the Linc couldn't do?  Who will pay for its maintenance?  Penn has a historic stadium and it does fine for the Penn Relays and is overkill for any of their programs now.  Villanova is far away.  Temple uses the Linc.  There is no bigtime football program in the immediate area that could utilize it.

As I've mentioned previously this would be the perfect opportunity to bring an MLS franchise into the city post-Olympics.  Build an 80,000 seater for standard purposes but afterwards like in London's bid decrease the size of the facility so that it isn't such a burden on the city or organization in charge of its upkeep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please..you left and lived in one of the most troubled sections of the city.

Thrillos, no offense, but you need to get your head out of your ass.  Did you grow up in the city?  You've probably only lived in the city for the past couple years.

Most troubled?  You've obviously never been to Kensington, Point Breeze, Strawberry Mansion, Mantua, etc.  Outside of Center City and more suburban-type areas of the city like Chestnut Hill, University City is one of the best places to live in the city.  

The development you mentioned hardly means anything.  It is a drop in the hat compared to most cities.  Again, I am on your side and think it's ridiculous when people give Philadelphia no chance.  But, you have to temper your enthusiasm with some reality.  Is the city better than 10 years ago?  Yes.  Is it heading in the right direction?  Yes.  Will it continue?  Umm...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, Thrillos.  That last post was meant for zur.

Overall, I wouldn't brag about Philadelphia running a surplus in recent memory.  Do you know how much money a city like NY and SF pulls in?  CA is picking up where it left off in 2000 with all the googleaires cashing in their stock options now.  

Greece as a country will pay off its 16 billion dollar olympic debt for generations.  CA is paying 6 billion+ just to rebuild half of the Bay Bridge.  Chew on that for a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, Thrillos.  That last post was meant for zur.

Overall, I wouldn't brag about Philadelphia running a surplus in recent memory.  Do you know how much money a city like NY and SF pulls in?  CA is picking up where it left off in 2000 with all the googleaires cashing in their stock options now.  

Greece as a country will pay off its 16 billion dollar olympic debt for generations.  CA is paying 6 billion+ just to rebuild half of the Bay Bridge.  Chew on that for a bit.

I was going to say, look to the left and see who wrote that one ... cause it sure wasn't me.  :upside:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greece as a country will pay off its 16 billion dollar olympic debt for generations.  CA is paying 6 billion+ just to rebuild half of the Bay Bridge.  Chew on that for a bit.

Let me interject here.  With Mr. Surplus-side Olympics Ueberroth running the USOC and guiding another Olympic host city, how can even a Philadelphia lose money in a 2016 Games?  Migod, the TV revenues alone for a SOG to return to the US, with the Eastern time zone live, will be the biggest TV sports prize in history.  I'd say if the US, and it was an Eastern time-zone city, bagged 2016, the TV rights alone could go for at least $1 billion -- and the host city could conceivably get a minimum of $650 mil from that -- from the US sale alone.

So I wouldn't worry about any city losing their shirt on a 2016 US Games.  Under Ueberroth's guidance, and experience from Atlanta and Salt Lake, we should continue to put on the most surplus-side Olympics just so we can show the IOC that we do it correctly here in the US.

As Thrillos said, a new MLS arena for Philly will also come into play as a possible semi- or a finals site for a 2018 or a 2022 World Cup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Mr. Surplus-side Olympics Ueberroth running the USOC and guiding another Olympic host city, how can even a Philadelphia lose money in a 2016 Games?

Famous nice words.  Nice going Baron.  :cool:  Thrillos, you can thank Baron for jinxing it now.  How could Philadelphia lose the UN?  How could Philadelphia lose the Athletics and Warriors.  How could Philadelphia lose all its major companies but Comcast and Penn to the burbs?  (Though Penn came one vote short of moving to Valley Forge in the 60s).  How could Philadelphia blow all the money that poured in when rail was king and Philadelphia was its throne?  We can now add: how can even Philadelphia lose money in a 2016 Games...

Yeah, but it's all different now.  So are the Cubs - when do I get my world series?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...