Sour grapes or what?!

[Cordelia18]

I think the problem isnt our arrogance, but the fact that we are French. For a reason I still havent figured out, we (French people), are always dissed and criticized, whatever we do. An arrogant city can't win the games and you mustnt be too conceited to win them? Ok. Our 2 past candidatures displayed too much arrogance in the IOC members' eyes? Ok, even if I think it's normal that a city does everything to defend her chances to win and shows all the pride and the love that the people have for this city.

     Now we said we had taken into account the IOC members remarks about this arrogance (which is actually a too passionate demonstration of the love and pride we have for our city) and tried not to praise our city too much, and to make a simple, but moving final presentation (in the final short movie made by Luc Besson just before the vote).

      But what on earth, can we do in order not to be blamed for being arrogant? Should we completely stop supporting our candidature? Should we say we dont want the games or should we say we're not proud of our city? Should we encourage people not to come to Paris because even we dont like the city we live in? AGAIN, the true arrogance for me is to thi

[Surferdude]

I think the problem isnt our arrogance, but the fact that we are French. For a reason I still havent figured out, we (French people), are always dissed and criticized, whatever we do. An arrogant city can't win the games and you mustnt be too conceited to win them? Ok. Our 2 past candidatures displayed too much arrogance in the IOC members' eyes? Ok, even if I think it's normal that a city does everything to defend her chances to win and shows all the pride and the love that the people have for this city.

     Now we said we had taken into account the IOC members remarks about this arrogance (which is actually a too passionate demonstration of the love and pride we have for our city) and tried not to praise our city too much, and to make a simple, but moving final presentation (in the final short movie made by Luc Besson just before the vote).

      But what on earth, can we do in order not to be blamed for being arrogant? Should we completely stop supporting our candidature? Should we say we dont want the games or should we say we're not proud of our city? Should we encourage people not to come to Paris because even we dont like the city we live in? AGAIN, the true arrogance for me is to thi

Whether it is arrogance or being French I'm not sure, but it is the way it all comes across to those those who are onlookers. There is a huge difference about being proud of your city (which is a fine quality) and suggesting that everything else is inferior to you. I'm not sure what others think, but my impression was that the Paris bid team were saying "We are so much better than you, it's not even worth you being here". And that was even more apparent in the presentation in front of the IOC.

The reason I blame the Mayor of Paris and Chirac is because I don't actually think that most of France is like that at all. Certainly, city hall opposition leader Claude Goasguen isn't like that. He gave a measured and dignified response to the accusations about London.

Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe has accused British Prime Minister Tony Blair and London bid leader Sebastien Coe of breaking the rules in their bid to stage the 2012 Olympic Games.

"I don't say they flirted (with the yellow line), they crossed right over," he told his first Paris council meeting on Monday since the International Olympic Committee (IOC) gave the Games to London.

"Victory was decided on something other than Olympism. We had a choice to make, especially as concerns corruption. I accept responsibility for the choice. We didn't lose on our bid, our respect for the Olympic rules or ethics."

However, city hall opposition leader Claude Goasguen said: "When you accuse somebody you have to prove it. Either London cheated, and you have to come up with a case to remove any doubts. Or London did not cheat and you have to accept defeat."

Paris had been favourites throughout the Olympic campaign but London's hopes were raised after two days of lobbying by Blair in Singapore and an impressive presentation by Coe to the IOC members.

A spokesman for the British Prime Minister said Monday that London's winning bid to host the 2012 Olympics was "fair," rejecting charges from Delanoe that they had broken the rules.

IOC president Jacques Rogge said last Saturday in Singapore that all the cities had conducted their campaigns according to the rules - even though he had once or twice had to remind them to be careful. from sportsbusiness.com

It really is time that Delanoe either gave proper proof or he apologises and shuts up, or he risks making matters even worse for the city he says loves the Games.

[Cordelia18]

I think the problem isnt our arrogance, but the fact that we are French. For a reason I still havent figured out, we (French people), are always dissed and criticized, whatever we do. An arrogant city can't win the games and you mustnt be too conceited to win them? Ok. Our 2 past candidatures displayed too much arrogance in the IOC members' eyes? Ok, even if I think it's normal that a city does everything to defend her chances to win and shows all the pride and the love that the people have for this city.

     Now we said we had taken into account the IOC members remarks about this arrogance (which is actually a too passionate demonstration of the love and pride we have for our city) and tried not to praise our city too much, and to make a simple, but moving final presentation (in the final short movie made by Luc Besson just before the vote).

      But what on earth, can we do in order not to be blamed for being arrogant? Should we completely stop supporting our candidature? Should we say we dont want the games or should we say we're not proud of our city? Should we encourage people not to come to Paris because even we dont like the city we live in? AGAIN, the true arrogance for me is to think that one can freely diss and attack other candidates.

       Besides, the IOC isn't expected to judge cities according to the stupid and ludicrous clichés they have about them. There are precise criteria of judgement meant to determine which of the cities is the best to host the games. They are absolutely not supposed to punish anyone because of a personal mental feature, which is actually a wrong cliché. It's just like at school: teachers dont reward their students according to their personalities but according to their work and to the quality of their work. If they dont, then they're bad teachers. No one should disagree with this.

         And, after all, arrogance isnt a crime....Unlike corruption. French people might be arrogant, but I've just demonstrated you that it simply isnt NORMAL that it cost them the games. But on the other hand, the British were dishonest, disrespectful and broke the rules, and that shouldnt have cost them the games.

         Suferdude, dont worry, as long as you will have to brake the rules and to lose your dignity and integrity and to have the games, no French city will win, simply because we wont use these methods.

         Again, these are not sour grapes because I'm repeating you that if that's the way you win the games, then it's good thing we dont have them. These would have been sour grapes if we were protesting without any obvious reason; but if London had cleanely won, we would just have accepted our defeat, like we accepted Pekin's victory for 2008. The fact is just that this British win is soiled by corruption, and this logically lead the French, who deserved these games, to indignation.

[Cordelia18]

By the way surferdude, you wanted proofs for London's corruption? Why dont you go and ask your Prime Minister or Mr Coe? When they're asked whether they had received IOC members in their personal rooms before the vote, which is again strictly forbidden, they both remain silent. They dont even deny having done it. You can add to that the BBC documentary where a group of journalists had hidden a secret camera in the pocket of their jackets and were proposing large amounts of money to IOC members to make them vote for London. In this documentary, these anonymous IOC members fully agreed to do this business. So why wouldnt have Mr Coe and Mr Blair done the same things to win?

   So you see, there is absolutely no proof to give, simply because the defendants completely confess their crime, but no one does anything: why? The corrupted IOC members logically dont want to have problems so they try to smother this affair, and as for Mr Rogge, he certainly doesnt want discredit to be spread on the IOC after so many recent scandals such as the corrupted figure skating judges in Salt Lake City 2002. So it's better for everyone in the IOC to remain silent nevertheless the whole world knows London used bribery and that Paris should have had the games.

   Again if you're happy with this victory, and if you wanna keep denying the involvement of corruption in this election and put the blame on the French arrogance for this defeat; good for you. But dont forget ne thing: justice exists, and it's not completely dead in this story for  discredit and dishonor are already tarnishing your "victory"...

[Rob2012]

You can add to that the BBC documentary where a group of journalists had hidden a secret camera in the pocket of their jackets and were proposing large amounts of money to IOC members to make them vote for London. In this documentary, these anonymous IOC members fully agreed to do this business. So why wouldnt have Mr Coe and Mr Blair done the same things to win?

And what was there stopping the French members from doing the same, or the Spanish, Russians or Americans.? Answer: Nothing.

What proof do we have that Coe and Co did this? Answer: the same amount of proof we have that Mr Chirac and co did it. i.e. none.

But dont forget ne thing: justice exists, and it's not completely dead in this story for  discredit and dishonor are already tarnishing your "victory"...

In the eyes of a few sad losers our proud victory is tarnished. In the eyes of every sane person there is nothing to tarnish it. I don't care what you think but at least you're honest enough to admit you don't have any proof to back up your claims - and I'll hold you to that admission. The fact is, we have the Olympics and you don't.

See you in 2012!

[arwebb]

By the way surferdude, you wanted proofs for London's corruption? Why dont you go and ask your Prime Minister or Mr Coe? When they're asked whether they had received IOC members in their personal rooms before the vote, which is again strictly forbidden, they both remain silent. They dont even deny having done it. You can add to that the BBC documentary where a group of journalists had hidden a secret camera in the pocket of their jackets and were proposing large amounts of money to IOC members to make them vote for London. In this documentary, these anonymous IOC members fully agreed to do this business. So why wouldnt have Mr Coe and Mr Blair done the same things to win?

   So you see, there is absolutely no proof to give, simply because the defendants completely confess their crime, but no one does anything: why? The corrupted IOC members logically dont want to have problems so they try to smother this affair, and as for Mr Rogge, he certainly doesnt want discredit to be spread on the IOC after so many recent scandals such as the corrupted figure skating judges in Salt Lake City 2002. So it's better for everyone in the IOC to remain silent nevertheless the whole world knows London used bribery and that Paris should have had the games.

   Again if you're happy with this victory, and if you wanna keep denying the involvement of corruption in this election and put the blame on the French arrogance for this defeat; good for you. But dont forget ne thing: justice exists, and it's not completely dead in this story for  discredit and dishonor are already tarnishing your "victory"...

Let us know when you've got some evidence to back up your claims. What you've said just sounds like an awful lot of very sour grapes to me.

Ask yourself this - why did London lobby? They knew they had ground to make up on their competitors and they did it.

Now ask yourself this - why is the Paris Mayor whining so much? I'll offer this theory - he knows in his heart of hearts that his team could and should have done more to make up members minds.

Both you and he need to accept defeat with a bit more grace and dignity than has been on display thus far.

[its a bid of magic]

I agree

Cordelia you have taken the comments made by the mayor of Paris and his sour grapes, which this whole thread is all about.  And now you think that what he says is true, and sod the rest of anyone who has a different view.

The Mayor of Paris Bertrand Delanoe has no factual, real evidence to back up his comments, which are based on his oppinions at best, or his complete lack of good sportsmanship at worse.  If he had put the same amount of passion and demonstrated what Paris could have given to the Olympics, and not what the Olympics would do for Paris, when meeting the IOC members like Coe, Livingstone and Blair did, then maybe Paris would have won on July 6th.  Then again, maybe not.  

[lexolympics]

I think the problem isnt our arrogance, but the fact that we are French. For a reason I still havent figured out, we (French people), are always dissed and criticized, whatever we do. An arrogant city can't win the games and you mustnt be too conceited to win them? Ok. Our 2 past candidatures displayed too much arrogance in the IOC members' eyes? Ok, even if I think it's normal that a city does everything to defend her chances to win and shows all the pride and the love that the people have for this city.

I agree, there's nothing wrong with being proud of your city. The Paris video did a great job of portraying that.  

But the Olympics aren't all about the Parisians being proud of themselves and their city, and wanting the games.  

I felt that in order to win, Paris's presentation needed to be based around a global theme, a theme that was about more than just the Parisians' wanting their self-perceived overdue moment of glory.  Sydney was  about ecology.  Athens was obviously about history. Beijing was about the bridging the gap between East and West. London was about youth.   I'm  still not sure what Paris was about, apart from itself.

Oh and by the way, if Paris really wanted to woo foreigners to their city, what about sending all your sales assistants, waiters and taxi drivers to charm school?

[Surferdude]

There's a real sense that Paris still has no idea why it lost and why London won. That really says it all. It's complete blindness and denial that it might not have portrayed itself as the best bid (regardless of whether it was actually the best or not). Everyone else can see the reasons so clearly without too much trouble, so why can't Paris?

[Surferdude]

Tony Blair has been cleared of acting improperly for his part in helping London win the 2012 Olympic Games.

The prime minister had been accused of breaking bidding rules by meeting International Olympic Committee members in Singapore ahead of the final vote.

But IOC president Jacques Rogge said: "Mr Blair was very successful in selling the idea that members should vote for London.

"London won because it was a great bid and its candidature file outstanding."

BBC Sport

[LuigiVercotti]

"Victory has many fathers...defeat is an orphan"

Looks like Delanoe is even contesting the paternity of Paris's failed bid

[Surferdude]

"Victory has many fathers...defeat is an orphan"

Looks like Delanoe is even contesting the paternity of Paris's failed bid

Not even the French think that Delanoe got it right.

[Surferdude]

Delanoë slips

Yesterday the Mayor of Paris again accuses the British of cheating to obtain the Games of 2012. Declarations not very sporting  that surprised Paris as well as London.

(rough translation)

[mr.x]

Shame on Paris.......though I have to say that Paris has wanted the Games for a long time and this time, they were so so so close but one country north of them ruined it all..............THANK YOU LONDON 2012!

[BABYLON]

See you in 2012!

I think I'm gonna hang Tony Parker's photo taken when Rogge said "LONDON"!  :devil:  The guy always said in his official website that Paris is "already the winner" showing us how arrogant some people could be!

"If you can't dance, don't blame the dance-floor!" That's what we say in my hometown about losers who just don't want to face the fact that they lost and it's over.

The Host City of Games of the XXXth Olympiad in 2012 and the first city to host the Olympics three times is LONDON, Great Britain PERIOD.

[Surferdude]

See you in 2012!

I think I'm gonna hang Tony Parker's photo taken when Rogge said "LONDON"!  :devil:  The guy always said in his official website that Paris is "already the winner" showing us how arrogant some people could be!

"If you can't dance, don't blame the dance-floor!" That's what we say in my hometown about losers who just don't want to face the fact that they lost and it's over.

The Host City of Games of the XXXth Olympiad in 2012 and the first city to host the Olympics three times is LONDON, Great Britain PERIOD.

Oh what website was that? Bet you he's not crowing now!

[BABYLON]

Oh what website was that? Bet you he's not crowing now!

I can't find most of what he said but take a look at his 3rd question in this interview. Parker here interviews Bertrand Delanoë.

we have nothing to worry about, Paris shall host the game in 2012!

[its a bid of magic]

Sydney was  about ecology.  Athens was obviously about history. Beijing was about the bridging the gap between East and West. London was about youth.   I'm  still not sure what Paris was about, apart from itself.

Couldn't agree more.

[argentak]

The IOC rules dictate that lobbying is not allowed outside the arena of sport and marketing that relates to sporting legacy. London (a la the sudden pitch for aid to African governments), as well as the other cities (Moscow's oil endorsements, Paris and New York's media company spree, and Madrid's "we vote for you, you vote for is in 4 years" pyramid style scheme), all went outside that boundary.

Sensationalist nationalism can't change that.

London won the vote, but none of the 5 cities played a clean game. Deserving victory for London? Absolutely. Victory for the Olympic movement? Not really. It's my hope that all 5 cities and their supporters stop complaining, come clean, and start worrying about things that matter like supporting their own athletes for future games.

[Aly]

London's pitch for increased aid for Africa was designed to win the Olympics?  Now I've heard it all!!!

Breaking News on Gamesbids.com - Bob Geldof a secret ambassador for London 2012.  Remember, you heard it here first!!!!

[Daffyd Pollard]

London's pitch for increased aid for Africa was designed to win the Olympics?  Now I've heard it all!!!

Breaking News on Gamesbids.com - Bob Geldof a secret ambassador for London 2012.  Remember, you heard it here first!!!!

And the real cunning of it all is that the bidding process was first started 20 years ago with Live Aid! Now there's foresight for you...LOL

[Surferdude]

Here's Tony Parker's initial reaction

Tony Parker of the NBA champion San Antonio Spurs said Paris's loss showed that the IOC had an Anglo-Saxon bias.

"It's been three times now that Paris has been refused - 1992, 2008 and 2012. I find that bizarre," Parker said. "We did everything we had to do. I don't know what more we could have done.

"It proves that the committee is Anglo-Saxon. They prefer the English."

Then just as the French were running out of unripened vinyards. He helpfully clarified his comments on his website (as if what he said wasn't that clear!)

We must congratulate London !

Press release :

I would like to put into perspective the importance of my declaration following the IOC’s decision on a day when London felt victim to the blind fury of some. Paris’ bid was excellent, an impressive presentation, full of reason and sensibility but we lacked the killer instinct and fighting spirit of our Anglo-Saxons friends. It is in part thanks to some good lobbying which is well accepted and normal. Being the son of an American citizen, living and working in the US, such methods and attitudes are not bothering but it would have been useful to practice them more. I did not mean the IOC was ruled by Anglo-Saxons. We must congratulate our friends from London. They have been able to convince the IOC by emphasizing the dream (our dream as athletes and children of the world) above material matters. Best regards.

Doesn't look like clarification to me, more of a U-turn after being accused of being a poor loser.

[The_Torch]

I've just reviewed all the 2012 bid city websites, and strangely enough Paris is the only website NOT to offer it's congratulations to London.

Very sad. It says it all really.  

[Ripley]

I think the problem isnt our arrogance, but the fact that we are French. For a reason I still havent figured out, we (French people), are always dissed and criticized, whatever we do. An arrogant city can't win the games and you mustnt be too conceited to win them? Ok. Our 2 past candidatures displayed too much arrogance in the IOC members' eyes? Ok, even if I think it's normal that a city does everything to defend her chances to win and shows all the pride and the love that the people have for this city.

     Now we said we had taken into account the IOC members remarks about this arrogance (which is actually a too passionate demonstration of the love and pride we have for our city) and tried not to praise our city too much, and to make a simple, but moving final presentation (in the final short movie made by Luc Besson just before the vote).

      But what on earth, can we do in order not to be blamed for being arrogant? Should we completely stop supporting our candidature? Should we say we dont want the games or should we say we're not proud of our city? Should we encourage people not to come to Paris because even we dont like the city we live in? AGAIN, the true arrogance for me is to thi

France has nothing to complain about...you have had your fair share of sporting events...much more than the UK in recent years.

Albertville 1992

FIFA WC France 1998

IAAF Paris 2003

Rugby World Cup 2007

France/Paris should not be bitter that London/UK has managed to win a prestigious event. Nobody in the UK begrudged the French winning Rugby WC 2007 recently against England.

The French are not a victims of injustice...they were beaten at their own game....politics! You only have to look at the french manipulation of the EU to see that!

[dronkula]

I get the feeling over the Channel as well that there's generally some serious moral problems over there.

High unemployment, the vote on the EU constitution, the Government generally not being very popular and they were hoping that winning the Olympics would increase moral amongst the population.

People in charge seem to be trying to setup a scapegoat to direct peoples accusations away from themselves - just like when they attacked the UK over our EU rebate to stop people talking about the fact that France had just voted against the EU constitution.

So, they're busy saying 'It's not our fault - those pesky British cheated by actually talking to the IOC'.

Personally, if I were in charge, I'd be more inclined to fix the problems in the first place rather than just papering over the cracks.