Sour grapes or what?!

[Cordelia18]

I've just reviewed all the 2012 bid city websites, and strangely enough Paris is the only website NOT to offer it's congratulations to London.

Very sad. It says it all really.  

  Please don't ask us to congratulate London when you don't even have the dignity and the elegance to confess you didn't win these games cleanely, in spite of every evidence (even The Guardian which is a British paper denounces London's methods) all the more calling us "bad losers". We can't do anything because Rogge and the IOC are on your side (for the simple reason that their interest is to smother everything) so we just accept our defeat nonetheless we now we've been fooled : this already is a big enough effort. As for the 3 other cities who congratulated you, this is not more surprising at all since they were your accomplices (according to many people, including The Guardian - read their article about it).

     To the person saying that France's moral was low and that we had many problems, let me tell you that we're doing very fine and we stand proud in spite of this shameful story.I am personally very satisfied with my government, and my standard of living is far better than many British people. If we voted "no" to the EU constitution, it might be because we don't want to make anymore alliance with people that keep dissing us all the time, and who are obviously capable of doing anything to hinder our projects (the Anglo-spanish-russian alliance for 2012 clearly illustrate it). And I believe it's a way to say we prefer an Atlantic alliance with the USA;

     New York's file was by the way the best right after Paris in my opinion, and an American victory would have been fully justified. Since Paris will never bid again anymore, I hope an American city will bid and win for 2016, for America has always displayed an staggering and wonderful capacity to organize great games, honestly won (unlike 2012). Not to mention the American people warmth and hospitality, that I've personally experienced...

[Rob2012]

We can't do anything because Rogge and the IOC are on your side

FYI Codelia, Rogge was widely believed to want a Paris win. Learn your facts and stop with your blah, blah, blah. You sound like a broken record.

As for the 3 other cities who congratulated you, this is not more surprising at all since they were your accomplices

Even if an Anglo-Spanish-Russian allience did exist it wasn't the reason London won because, believe it or not, Paris got more of Madrid's votes than London and Madrid got virtually all of Moscow's votes!

If you still believe the IOC were biased against Paris read this and perhaps you'll realise that the IOC don't have a vendetta against your oh-so-perfect city. We can all find fault if we look hard enough and, as you can see from this article, a case stronger than your own can be made that the IOC were actually pro Paris.

New York's file was by the way the best right after Paris in my opinion, and an American victory would have been fully justified.

That's your opinion. The opinion of 54 IOC members was that London's was the best. Oh well, can't win 'em all.

If we voted "no" to the EU constitution, it might be because we don't want to make anymore alliance with people that keep dissing us all the time

diddums. :cry: Of course, your President wouldn't do the same would he? Fancy a fry-up?

British grub. Can't beat it can you? Certainly looks tastier than a bunch of sour grapes.

[its a bid of magic]

If we voted "no" to the EU constitution, it might be because we don't want to make anymore alliance with people that keep dissing us all the time, and who are obviously capable of doing anything to hinder our projects (the Anglo-spanish-russian alliance for 2012 clearly illustrate it). And I believe it's a way to say we prefer an Atlantic alliance with the USA;

     New York's file was by the way the best right after Paris in my opinion, and an American victory would have been fully justified. Since Paris will never bid again anymore, I hope an American city will bid and win for 2016, for America has always displayed an staggering and wonderful capacity to organize great games, honestly won (unlike 2012). Not to mention the American people warmth and hospitality, that I've personally experienced...

I hate too break it to you, but the Americans can't stand the French Administration, and the alliance between USA and UK will always be strong.

When Saddam Hussain was torturing his own people and threatening great instability in the Middle East, who was it that crawled back under a rock, and cowered away from offering their support.  France and Chirac.

Who was it that stood in unison against terrorism and dictatorship.  Blair and Bush, amongst others. (including Spain and Australia)

You've got buckley's chance of forging a close USA-France relationship, after recent events.

[Surferdude]

What a load of bad sportsmen you have in France. It is shameful, undignified and quite frankly childish the way the Paris mayor and others are behaving.

Universally, the London presentation was acclaimed, around the world, around the IOC, even French newspapers knew that the Paris presentation was weak and was more about showing off the city rather than asking what it could do for the olympics.

Stop looking for excuses, for bias, for conspiracy, for reasons other than the fact that Paris wasn't as perfect as it thought and that it hadn't got the confidence of the IOC that it assumed it had. This is the French arrogance we are all talking about. It's when Paris doesn't even begin to think it might have got anything wrong. You will NEVER deserve to host anything until you realise that there may be others who might, just might be a little better than yoursleves at something. Now grow up or be alienated for ever.

[arwebb]

I've just reviewed all the 2012 bid city websites, and strangely enough Paris is the only website NOT to offer it's congratulations to London.

Very sad. It says it all really.  

  Please don't ask us to congratulate London when you don't even have the dignity and the elegance to confess you didn't win these games cleanely

Where's your evidence? Have you got any?

You may believe this was all some conspiracy against Paris, but the simple truth is more of the members voted for London than for Paris.

That's why Paris lost. Now get over it!

[The_Torch]

Ooh dear Cordelia18, it would appear I struck a nerve!  :oh:

May I congratulate you on your response. But as I previously said in my original posting... 'It says it all'

We look foward to seeing you in London in 2012 for the XXX Olympiad.

Kisses.

The_Torch

[frenchnounours]

What a load of bad sportsmen you have in France. It is shameful, undignified and quite frankly childish the way the Paris mayor and others are behaving.

Universally, the London presentation was acclaimed, around the world, around the IOC, even French newspapers knew that the Paris presentation was weak and was more about showing off the city rather than asking what it could do for the olympics.

Stop looking for excuses, for bias, for conspiracy, for reasons other than the fact that Paris wasn't as perfect as it thought and that it hadn't got the confidence of the IOC that it assumed it had. This is the French arrogance we are all talking about. It's when Paris doesn't even begin to think it might have got anything wrong. You will NEVER deserve to host anything until you realise that there may be others who might, just might be a little better than yoursleves at something. Now grow up or be alienated for ever.

i m sorry to tell you that suferdude but only the mayor react the childish way you describe.

he was the only one to speak of a conspiration.

the other sportsmens where just sad because they thought they made all they could to won the bid.

and for all of you stop speaking about the french arrogance,this is stupid.

why are we arrogant in your opinion ?because paris leaders thinks they have the best bid??pff lord coe & london leaders thinks the same

as to host anything in paris,well RWC,SWC & IAAF are a good begining don 't you think

and by the way,i can make a list of all of the bristish  fanswho have said (and who are still saying) event before london 2012 released it 's bid book that it will be the most beautiful,the gretest olympics ever make and we only hear that ifrm  london fans mouth THIS IS JUSTi let you guess....arrogant??

[Surferdude]

What a load of bad sportsmen you have in France. It is shameful, undignified and quite frankly childish the way the Paris mayor and others are behaving.

Universally, the London presentation was acclaimed, around the world, around the IOC, even French newspapers knew that the Paris presentation was weak and was more about showing off the city rather than asking what it could do for the olympics.

Stop looking for excuses, for bias, for conspiracy, for reasons other than the fact that Paris wasn't as perfect as it thought and that it hadn't got the confidence of the IOC that it assumed it had. This is the French arrogance we are all talking about. It's when Paris doesn't even begin to think it might have got anything wrong. You will NEVER deserve to host anything until you realise that there may be others who might, just might be a little better than yoursleves at something. Now grow up or be alienated for ever.

i m sorry to tell you that suferdude but only the mayor react the childish way you describe.

he was the only one to speak of a conspiration.

the other sportsmens where just sad because they thought they made all they could to won the bid.

and for all of you stop speaking about the french arrogance,this is stupid.

why are we arrogant in your opinion ?because paris leaders thinks they have the best bid??pff lord coe & london leaders thinks the same

as to host anything in paris,well RWC,SWC & IAAF are a good begining don 't you think

and by the way,i can make a list of all of the bristish  fanswho have said (and who are still saying) event before london 2012 released it 's bid book that it will be the most beautiful,the gretest olympics ever make and we only hear that ifrm  london fans mouth THIS IS JUSTi let you guess....arrogant??

I agree with you, the Paris Mayor is the main offender and it was he who I referred to in the original post. Others have ben much more dignified and gracious. The French Olympic leader is an excellent example and I commend him for his words.

But there are others on this board who are repeating what Delanoe said and supporting his point of view. Cordelia18  is falling over himself to suggest that London somehow cheated and that is why Paris lost.

But thank you frenchnounours for what you have said. And yes you are right some London fans did say how wonderful London's bid was before reading it properly. These people are wrong too. Every bid has some imperfections, but it was up to the IOC to decide which it thought would best meet the needs of the olympic ideals. We should accept what the IOC has decide, whther we win or lose.

[rjmac]

I am sorry, I have to add this reply to an early post....or my tongue will start to bleed from biting it!!!!!

To Cordelia18,

It is one thing to question the opinion that the people of France are arrogant.  I don't think that all of the people of France are arrogant at all.  I do think that the opinions expressed by their bid committee and the Parisian Mayor showed arrogance right from the start of the bidding process for the games of 2012.  Their comments before and after have shown this fact.

I would also like to mention that for some reason there seems to be an arrogance from the french that is put towards anyone that speaks english.  Maybe this is an American distaste?  However, once they find out that I am from Canada, this distaste doesn't really change much.

I have been to France.  I have also been to many parts of Quebec and also to Gualeloupe (which is a french protectorate)  I have come acrosss the same thing over and over again.  Distaste for anyone that speaks english and NOT french. Yet, I also know that the people of France look in distain towards those of French Canada....I saw this in Guadeloupe. (They are not as good as us was the opinion)

So obviously, this attitude carries outside of the french borders and shouldn't happen.  It has carried down through generations to their protectorates and former colonies

As for the situation in Canada.....  The French were conquered in this country by the British and it seems that in the war for the 2012 games.  They were conquered again by the British!!!!  Maybe France should pick their battles more carefully in the future.

[dronkula]

I hope an American city will bid and win for 2016, for America has always displayed an staggering and wonderful capacity to organize great games, honestly won (unlike 2012). Not to mention the American people warmth and hospitality, that I've personally experienced...

That's funny.  Like how they honestly one the Winter Olympics for Salt Lake City?

The IOC themselves have said that nothing wrong happened in Singapore.  And if I were an IOC member, I'd be getting a bit fed up with people saying that we're corrupt and just awarded the games because of some dodgy backhanders.

[rjmac]

Okay then,

If this is the case?  Was Paris's bid BETTER than London's?  Or were the two bid compatible?  Was there enough leeway for the IOC to pick one bid over the other?  If there is NO actual separation between the two bids then there is NO reason for complaint....it just comes down to a simple choice.

As I look at it....Madrid actually had the best bid!!!!

So where does that leave the arguement for either London or Paris?

Give me some simple data before you complain about a loss.  I am sure that Moscow and New York committees would have something to say about this too.

[dronkula]

That's funny.  Like how they honestly one the Winter Olympics for Salt Lake City?

Duh!

That should, obviously, have been 'how they honestly WON the Winter Olympics'.

That'll teach me for replying first thing in the morning before I've even had my first cup of tea...

[its a bid of magic]

A cup of tea will always blow those early morning cobwebs away.  

Can't we just accept that the London Bid was 2 more votes better than Paris.  At least it was very close.  Now the decision has been made, let's not rake over old ground.  If the shoe had been on the other foot, the brits would have got behind the Paris bid and give it thier 100% support.  I know I would have.

Why can't the likes of Cordelia, do the same?? :oh:

[Ripley]

London 2012 was always fighting an uphill battle to get the games. Paris was always the front runner and it was widely accepted by many, including the IOC members, that the IOC executive was falling over itself trying to promote the Paris bid above all others. This included a bid evaluation which was glowing in its praise of Paris and did not address fundamental issues about the location and security of the proposed Olympic village which was raised by independent bid experts and in the international media. So London had no choice but to bid aggressively in the face of that bias and it did so legitimately and within the rules as confirmed by Rogges…a Paris supporter.

I’m not inclined to criticise any Paris supporter for being bitterly disappointed, because I know I would have been had London lost. Its natural for such a massive disappointment to overflow into angry comments in the immediate aftermath of the announcement, but its now time for people to move on. Like I have already said, there is nothing “unfair” about London and the UK being given the opportunity to host such a significant event as 2012….as a country we have been conspicuously absent from hosting major events in the recent past…in complete contrast to France/Paris. To  continue to begrudge us this opportunity is extremely churlish.

I am going to France for my summer holidays this year because I love it …the people, the food and the culture. I do not think all French people are arrogant at all, but I think your politicians are. I also think you spend too much time trying to protect your culture and language and in the end you forget to allow it to live, change and grow. The obsession with the “anglo saxon world” and the sense of injustice your culture feels in relation to it is causing you to appear arrogant as a country…even though this is not what I have experienced at street level.

[Cordelia18]

If we voted "no" to the EU constitution, it might be because we don't want to make anymore alliance with people that keep dissing us all the time, and who are obviously capable of doing anything to hinder our projects (the Anglo-spanish-russian alliance for 2012 clearly illustrate it). And I believe it's a way to say we prefer an Atlantic alliance with the USA;

     New York's file was by the way the best right after Paris in my opinion, and an American victory would have been fully justified. Since Paris will never bid again anymore, I hope an American city will bid and win for 2016, for America has always displayed an staggering and wonderful capacity to organize great games, honestly won (unlike 2012). Not to mention the American people warmth and hospitality, that I've personally experienced...

I hate too break it to you, but the Americans can't stand the French Administration, and the alliance between USA and UK will always be strong.

When Saddam Hussain was torturing his own people and threatening great instability in the Middle East, who was it that crawled back under a rock, and cowered away from offering their support.  France and Chirac.

Who was it that stood in unison against terrorism and dictatorship.  Blair and Bush, amongst others. (including Spain and Australia)

You've got buckley's chance of forging a close USA-France relationship, after recent events.

     Well sorry to tell you that too but what you're talking about is totally obsolete. I dont think the American administration and Mr Bush are stupid enough to hold a grudge against France for the war in Iraq. Much time went by since then and the two countries got over it.

     By the way, I went to the US in 2004 and I had no mark of hostility or hatred from the American people, who were just as kind as the American friends I've had for a few years. They totally understand that even if our president was against the war, some of the French population (20% to be exact, including me) was for the war and gave their support to Mr Bush. And above all, they understand that if we said no to the war, it wasnt to diss the USA, but just to preserve ourselves and to keep terrorism away. Excuse me, but when we see what happened in Madrid or in London, we can't help but think "what would have happened in France if we had said yes to the war?".

So we for sure are on the US side because we know they fight for freedom and justice, but no one can blame us for wanting to be careful, and to keep our country safe. But this has nothing to deal with olympism. I've always loved America for many reasons, especially for its culture which I think is unequalled in the XXth century and certainly after (cinema, television, ...) and in spite of the hatred you're talking about that I've never experienced, I'll keep supporting them because it's a wonderful country  

[Cordelia18]

I would also like to mention that for some reason there seems to be an arrogance from the french that is put towards anyone that speaks english.  Maybe this is an American distaste?  However, once they find out that I am from Canada, this distaste doesn't really change much.

I have been to France.  I have also been to many parts of Quebec and also to Gualeloupe (which is a french protectorate)  I have come acrosss the same thing over and over again.  Distaste for anyone that speaks english and NOT french. Yet, I also know that the people of France look in distain towards those of French Canada....I saw this in Guadeloupe. (They are not as good as us was the opinion)

    I can't believe that one could be capable of so many absurdities in one post. A hatred against the english-speaking people? What would be the point of such an attitude? And why the people who speak english? Without any offense Rjmac, you're making yourself sound absolutely ridiculous.

     The USA is the country I love most, with my own country of course. I spent my  best vacation there and I have many American friends , that I see regularly. I dont have the slightest feeling of hostility against an english-speaking person, simply because I think, on the contrary, that english is one of the most beautiful language in the world (which I think is the reason why it was accepted by everybody as the international language without any difficulty). I also think American people are often open-minded and easy-going, which makes me want to communicate with them instead of rejecting them. As for the British people, I just think they're a bit colder and more distant than the Americans, but that doesnt mean I "hate" them.

      And we feel very close to the French-Canadian people from the Quebec, who have the same roots as us. We just make fun of their accent sometimes (the French they speak is actually an 18th century-French so who could blame us for laughing?) but there's nothing mean about it. As for the people of Guadeloupe, they dont hate english-speaking people: they hate almost everybody. I've been there too and although French is my language, they said they hated white French people from real France because we used them as slaves a long time ago...as if we were responsible...

    Now I hope you're going to think twice before talking nonsense and putting discredit on a whole nation. You come from a beautiful country too, so try to be worthy of it  ::

[LA84]

I wondered how long is ws going to be before some Paris supporter started blowing in the wind about Anglo Saxon bias, cheating, conspiracy, blah blah blah  

Bottom line is that Paris didn't learn anything from Athens after the 1996 vote when the arrogant approach of entitlement cost them the games to Atlanta.  The difference is that Athens learned from their mistake and went on to win 2004.

And if anyone on here think that what Prime Minister Blair allegedly did is an isolated incident then they are fooling themselves.  I seriously doubt that Hillary Clinton, King Juan Carlos, Queen Sophia, Chirac and any other heavy hitters that were in Singapore just spent their time being tourist and wearing their countries bid uniforms.

[frenchnounours]

i m asking once again the question

when & where the french was arrogant, during the biding time????

qit 's starting to get on my nerves!!

i can 't stand it anymore

paris bids leader always says that they weren t the frontrunner and that 's every city has a great bid so tell me how we were arrogant??

[Rob2012]

i m asking once again the question

when & where the french was arrogant, during the biding time????

qit 's starting to get on my nerves!!

i can 't stand it anymore

paris bids leader always says that they weren t the frontrunner and that 's every city has a great bid so tell me how we were arrogant??

I don't think the French bid was arrogant. Some of its supporters were though.

[Ripley]

i m asking once again the question

when & where the french was arrogant, during the biding time????

qit 's starting to get on my nerves!!

i can 't stand it anymore

paris bids leader always says that they weren t the frontrunner and that 's every city has a great bid so tell me how we were arrogant??

It wasn't an arrogant bid, but presenting the IOC with a bunch of men in grey suits and a very traditional presentation seemed a bit undynamic on the day. I think Paris 2012 went out of its way to avoid being seen a arrogant...they just took that approach too far. I guess London struck a more balanced approach and they benefited by not being seen to be front runners. I think the Paris bid's backfired because taking a "soft" less advesarial approach in fact ended up looking like complacency. Also saying in the presentationi that "Paris needs the games!" seemed quite self-obsessed when set against London's presentation which was all about energising the olympic movement in the interests of the youth of the world.

[Surferdude]

i m asking once again the question

when & where the french was arrogant, during the biding time????

qit 's starting to get on my nerves!!

i can 't stand it anymore

paris bids leader always says that they weren t the frontrunner and that 's every city has a great bid so tell me how we were arrogant??

I don't think the French bid was arrogant. Some of its supporters were though.

The bid wasn't arrogant, but the bid leaders were and so was the presentation.

[Mekky]

it makes me sick... by all saints of food, save us ... a chance british food now is mixed with other foods from pakistan or india, it makes it more tasty...

Take example :

Take care of your health !  

[DanTheMan]

I've been to France many times, and even stayed with a French family for a month.

I think the French are wonderful people. Their culture, food and way of life is second to none. However, whilst most French people are brilliant, I do think in Paris there is a bit of arrogance that has been previously mentioned. It may just be a capital mentality that can be found all over the world, I don't know. But I think the people who criticise the French as arrogant either only visited Paris or listened to uninformed people.

However, I love France and fully intend to go back sometime.

[Surferdude]

I agree. The Mayor of Paris and others do their country no favours in their cries of foul play. They will do their country and it's desire to bid for future sporting events huge damage if they carry on like this.

[Surferdude]

Actually, if it wasn't the Mayor's arrogance that killed off the Paris bid, I've discovered what it was. It took me a while, but now it has all become so clear to me. Duh!! Should have worked it out sooner.

The real reason why Paris lost