Qatar 2022

[Quaker2001]

Not just the Paralympics. But it would also impact the most important WOG federation, FISU, whose own world championships happen after the February WOGs; and would want to stay within that "winter" time frame becuz most of their sponsor are 'seasonal-winter' sponsors.

Why do posters here try to think they can come up with better calendars??

They don't, they just fail to understand it's more than a minor inconvenience for everyone involved with the Winter Olympics to adjust their calendars because FIFA has an issue they created. Why should the IOC, their NOCs and all the sport federations and all their constituencies save FIFA from the mess they created.

[stark]

Advertising and tv broadcasting will be a mess. The WC could outshine WOG in term of tv audiences in some countries.

[reindeer]

Advertising and tv broadcasting will be a mess. The WC could outshine WOG in term of tv audiences in some countries.

This is the issue here. It's neither in FIFA's nor IOC's interest to clash, but the World Cup would outshine the WOG should FIFA decide to have the tournament from mid-January to February. Nothing is prohibiting them to do so, although I don't think they will go for it. The winter games are much, much smaller and in many countries they are not followed at all.

[stark]

Even in some European countries Spain, Italy, etc... as for here, Germany will be half half (except if Munich hosts)

[baron-pierreIV]

This is the issue here. It's neither in FIFA's nor IOC's interest to clash, but the World Cup would outshine the WOG should FIFA decide to have the tournament from mid-January to February. Nothing is prohibiting them to do so, although I don't think they will go for it. The winter games are much, much smaller and in many countries they are not followed at all.

But the WC only gets global attention when it comes to 2 nites of the semi-finals and 1 night for the finals. So basically that's just 3 nites of good numbers. A WOG though offers 17 days (granted some days may not have the main marquee events) of continuous action. The point is that the marketing consultants of both would advise STRONGLY against it. Why would you cut off your nose despite your face?? The IOC owns those weeks in February. The best time for a resked WC is the Nov-Dec 2022 that they will most probably settle on. I don't get why people are trying to 2nd guess it? Do you know something that FIFA, the leagues, their marketing consultants don't?

Edited September 20, 2013 by baron-pierreIV

[reindeer]

November-December is more difficult to accomodate to club football and other international tournaments. The effect of WC would then spill to the next season, 2023-24, because the club season, that is national leagues and Champions' League, would run well into summer of 2023 due to a two month break. The qualifying matches to European Championships will begin in August or September 2022. Granted, qualifiers for a competition could begin before the previous tournament has ended, and there are no FIFA dates in late November or December anyway, but it doesn't seem very logical. Also Copa América and Asian Cup are most likely to be played in June or July 2023, so they also would need to be allocated to another time and there aren't many options for that.

[intoronto]

And even if there is a week break between the events it might create viewer and sponsor fatigue.

[baron-pierreIV]

November-December is more difficult to accomodate to club football and other international tournaments. The effect of WC would then spill to the next season, 2023-24, because the club season, that is national leagues and Champions' League, would run well into summer of 2023 due to a two month break. The qualifying matches to European Championships will begin in August or September 2022. Granted, qualifiers for a competition could begin before the previous tournament has ended, and there are no FIFA dates in late November or December anyway, but it doesn't seem very logical. Also Copa América and Asian Cup are most likely to be played in June or July 2023, so they also would need to be allocated to another time and there aren't many options for that.

Let FIFA worry about their subordinate, affiliate orgs. They will tow the line.

Edited September 20, 2013 by baron-pierreIV

[reindeer]

Let FIFA worry about their subordinate, affiliate orgs. They will tow the line.

Who will? It's not like FIFA can order UEFA, an independent entity, to stand in line and do as they are told. Nor can FIFA force the big European leagues. Granted, technically they can, as FIFA could order the release of players for their respective national teams during the World Cup according to the International Match Calendar but that would only create a giant s**t storm and a real possibility of breakaway of many national associations. The relationship between different representatives of the game are not good to start with. IF the World Cup is moved to winter, whether to December or January, it will need the consent of European elite clubs. That's decisive, and I'm not saying that WOG are insignificant but only secondary in the decision. If the European clubs agree on staging WC in January but not at the end of year, then that's what will be done. I believe this to be theoretical though because there will likely be another solution.

[ofan]

Who will? It's not like FIFA can order UEFA, an independent entity, to stand in line and do as they are told. Nor can FIFA force the big European leagues. Granted, technically they can, as FIFA could order the release of players for their respective national teams during the World Cup according to the International Match Calendar but that would only create a giant s**t storm and a real possibility of breakaway of many national associations. The relationship between different representatives of the game are not good to start with. IF the World Cup is moved to winter, whether to December or January, it will need the consent of European elite clubs. That's decisive, and I'm not saying that WOG are insignificant but only secondary in the decision. If the European clubs agree on staging WC in January but not at the end of year, then that's what will be done. I believe this to be theoretical though because there will likely be another solution.

I can't see national associations breaking away from FIFA. If countries haven't already because of the the joke of an organization that FIFA is right now, I don't think they ever will. Besides, it isn't in the NF's best interest to do so.

[baron-pierreIV]

Who will? It's not like FIFA can order UEFA, an independent entity, to stand in line and do as they are told. Nor can FIFA force the big European leagues. Granted, technically they can, as FIFA could order the release of players for their respective national teams during the World Cup according to the International Match Calendar but that would only create a giant s**t storm and a real possibility of breakaway of many national associations. The relationship between different representatives of the game are not good to start with. IF the World Cup is moved to winter, whether to December or January, it will need the consent of European elite clubs. That's decisive, and I'm not saying that WOG are insignificant but only secondary in the decision. If the European clubs agree on staging WC in January but not at the end of year, then that's what will be done. I believe this to be theoretical though because there will likely be another solution.

Well then...what's the world to do?? Reindeer, unless I read you wrong, I think you just want to see all these orgs butt heads, etc. I don't see you heading towards a conciliatory or remedial stance. As they say, all things work out for the best in the end. It will sort itself out.

[donutman88]

Now I know there is no way it'd happen, but it seems to me the 2022 games would've been the perfect opportunity for the Winter Olympics to move to the Southern Hemisphere. The World Cup could be moved to February, and the Olympics to June and July....a little ol' switcheroo actually would've made for an attractive option to move the winter olympics to a new place and to safely and successfully have the World Cup in Qatar....but it's too late for New Zealand or say Australia to put together a bid...had FIFA discussed moving the World Cup say 3 years ago, right after or before Qatar won the bid, I think you could've seen an Olympics in the Southern Hemisphere....

[Quaker2001]

Now I know there is no way it'd happen, but it seems to me the 2022 games would've been the perfect opportunity for the Winter Olympics to move to the Southern Hemisphere. The World Cup could be moved to February, and the Olympics to June and July....a little ol' switcheroo actually would've made for an attractive option to move the winter olympics to a new place and to safely and successfully have the World Cup in Qatar....but it's too late for New Zealand or say Australia to put together a bid...had FIFA discussed moving the World Cup say 3 years ago, right after or before Qatar won the bid, I think you could've seen an Olympics in the Southern Hemisphere....

No, you couldn't have. No city/country in the Southern Hemisphere is ready to host the Winter Olympics. Nor are all these sport federations (soccer may have numerous governing bodies to deal with, but it's still 1 sport) going to throw their calendars out of whack to host a Winter sports festival in the middle of the Northern summer. At some point in our lifetimes perhaps it'll happen, but you see all the turmoil being caused by the potential move of the World Cup. Now imagine the turmoil created by moving the Winter Olympics (and don't forget the Paralympics which need a window of their own), an event very much dependent on proper weather, and the domino effect it would have on every sport's governing body. It's just not going to work. Let alone the idea of trying to get people interested in watching winter sports in the middle of the summer. It would be a disaster

[donutman88]

No, you couldn't have. No city/country in the Southern Hemisphere is ready to host the Winter Olympics. Nor are all these sport federations (soccer may have numerous governing bodies to deal with, but it's still 1 sport) going to throw their calendars out of whack to host a Winter sports festival in the middle of the Northern summer. At some point in our lifetimes perhaps it'll happen, but you see all the turmoil being caused by the potential move of the World Cup. Now imagine the turmoil created by moving the Winter Olympics (and don't forget the Paralympics which need a window of their own), an event very much dependent on proper weather, and the domino effect it would have on every sport's governing body. It's just not going to work. Let alone the idea of trying to get people interested in watching winter sports in the middle of the summer. It would be a disaster

Right....I know it never would've happened. I just thought it'd be an interesting idea and probably "the best" chance (or I guess you could say excuse) at having them in the Southern Hemisphere for a long time to come, but yes exactly nobody is prepared to host them. I'm one of those people who always likes to see the olympics go to new places, if they'd likely be successful and no major issues are currently present. (Hence why I didn't support Istanbul b/c of Syria, and especially after the doping drama). I agree that it's madness with the World Cup and the same would happen if you moved the Olympics/Paralympics and the viewership might go down, but I was just thinking about that today with the IOC coming out and saying they want nothing to do with moving the World Cup. I do hope at some point the IOC moves beyond the typical countries that host the Winter Games, because time and time again its the same exact countries, where at least during the summer games you get a fair variety of hosts. Still though, I think if anybody is prepared to host, it'd be say Melbourne or far into the future Santiago and/or Auckland, but yes, I think it will be a long time until that happens.

[baron-pierreIV]

2022 will only have a domino effect on other football events. Maybe when the icecaps melt might the southern hemisphere have a chance of hosting a WOG...but don't hold your breath until then.

[yoshi]

What's it like in Qatar at this time of year? Or in March/April? Could they stage WC around now?

[intoronto]

And winter athletes would be affected if their marquee event is moved to July

[reindeer]

What's it like in Qatar at this time of year? Or in March/April? Could they stage WC around now?

Temperatures around 40 degrees Celsius, I guess I don't have to link some weather site here. It's hot at least from May to September but of course July and August are the hottest months. I have read about proposals within FIFA to stage the tournament from May to early June when it's somewhat cooler than in midsummer and have the matches kick off in the evening. That would also solve the problem of Confederations' Cup as it could be easily played in the same timeframe as the WC. And let's not forget that for example in 1994 matches were played in midday heat in places like Florida and Texas.

[baron-pierreIV]

And let's not forget that for example in 1994 matches were played in midday heat in places like Florida and Texas.

Well, those were to accommodate TV prime-time viewers in a certain wee continent that starts with an "E."

Edited September 21, 2013 by baron-pierreIV

[ofan]

What's it like in Qatar at this time of year? Or in March/April? Could they stage WC around now?

Well, Doha proposed to hold the Olympics in October, so I don't see why this time wouldn't work.

[baron-pierreIV]

Well, Doha proposed to hold the Olympics in October, so I don't see why this time wouldn't work.

It's up against the World Series in the US and the supposed leagues in Europe are also headed for their closing weeks, aren't they? That's why.

[Rob2012]

How many more must die for Qatar's World Cup?

With the European football association, Uefa, reaching the unavoidable conclusion that you cannot play competitive sport in the 50C heat of a Qatari summer, the way is clear for the international football association, Fifa, to break with precedent and make a decision that does not seem corrupt or senseless or both.

All being well, the 2022 tournament will be held in the winter. Just one niggling question remains: how many lives will be lost so that the Fifa World Cup™ can live up to its boast that it is the most successful festival of sport on the planet. "More workers will die building World Cup infrastructure than players will take to the field," predicts Sharan Burrow, general secretary of the International Trade Union Confederation. Even if the teams in Qatar use all their substitutes, she is likely to be right.

Qatar's absolute monarchy, run by the fabulously rich and extraordinarily secretive Al Thani clan, no more keeps health and safety statistics than it allows free elections. The Trade Union Confederation has had to count the corpses the hard way. It found that 83 Indians have died so far this year. The Gulf statelet was also the graveyard for 119 Nepalese construction workers. With 202 migrants from other countries dying over the same nine months, Ms Burrow is able to say with confidence there is at least one death for every day of the year. The body count can only rise now that Qatar has announced that it will take on 500,000 more migrants, mainly from the Indian subcontinent, to build the stadiums, hotels and roads for 2022.

Not all the fatalities are on construction sites. The combination of back-breaking work, nonexistent legal protections, intense heat and labour camps without air conditioning allows death to come in many guises. To give you a taste of its variety, the friends of Chirari Mahato went online to describe how he would work from 6am to 7pm. He would return to a hot, unventilated room he shared with 12 others. Because he died in his sleep, rather than on site, his employers would not accept that they had worked him to death. There are millions of workers like him around the Gulf. When we gawp at the wealth that allows the Qatari royals to buy the Olympic Village and Chelsea Barracks, we miss their plight, and the strangeness of the oil rich states, too.

How to characterise them? "Absolute monarchy" does not begin to capture a society such as Qatar, where migrants make up 99% of the private sector workforce. Apartheid South Africa is a useful point of reference. The 225,000 Qatari citizens can form trade unions and strike. The roughly 1.8 million migrants cannot. Sparta also comes to mind. But instead of a warrior elite living off the labour of helots, we have plutocrats and sybarites sustained by faceless armies of disposable migrants.

The official justification for oppression is, as so often, religious. Migrants and employers are bound by the kafala system – taken from Islamic law on the adoption of children. "Kafala" derives from "to feed". Nourishment is the last thing the system provides, however. It delivers captive labour instead. Migrant workers cannot change jobs without their sponsoring employers' consent. As Human Rights Watch says, if workers walk out, the employers – the adoptive parents – can say they have absconded and the authorities will arrest them.

In order to leave Qatar, migrants must obtain an exit visa from their sponsor. This stipulation means that they can be held hostage if they threaten to sue over a breach of contract. Wouldn't it make a bracing change if the religious leaders we hear condemning free speech as blasphemy so often could find the time to damn this exploitation?

It is not just poor construction workers who suffer. One might expect that Fifa would have been concerned about the fate of foreign footballers working under kafala contracts. Abdeslam Ouaddou, who once played for Fulham, has warned players not to go near Qatar. Speaking from experience – he played for Qatar SC in the Qatari domestic league – he said that if a player is injured or his form drops, the club can break his contract. If the player goes to lawyers, the club (as "sponsor") can refuse to let him leave the country until he drops his case.

Ouaddou got out of Qatar after much tortuous negotiation. But French player Zahir Belounis, a former captain of the team Al-Jaish, is trapped in the country with his family and hasn't been paid for two years. When he went to the international press, he was threatened with defamation proceedings.

After promising the International Trade Union Confederation that it would ensure human rights were respected in Qatar, Fifa tells me that it is "promoting a dialogue" to ensure dignified working conditions. Sharan Burrow's colleagues say all they hear is PR flam.

It is not just Qatar in 2022. The corruption and waste around the 2014 World Cup has provoked riots in Brazil. As for 2018, Putin's Duma has already restricted the rights of workers preparing the stadiums for the World Cup.

Fifa strikes me as a decadent organisation in the political rather than literary meaning of the word. It is an institution whose behaviour contradicts all of its professed purposes. If it cared about football, it would not even have thought of staging a tournament in the Qatari summer. If it cared about footballers, it would take up the case of Belounis. And if it respected human life, it would say that the kafala system could not govern World Cup contracts.

I don't know how much longer sports journalists can ignore the abuse Fifa tolerates. The World Cup is overturning all the cliches. People say that "football is a matter of life or death", said Bill Shankly. "It's more important than that." Shankly was joking. Qatar and Fifa appear to mean it. Sport is "war minus the shooting", said Orwell. There may not be any actual shooting in Qatar but workers will die nonetheless.

The quote that ought to haunt all who love football is CLR James's paraphrase of Kipling: "What do they know of cricket that only cricket know?" James was writing about how sport was bound up in the Caribbean with colonialism, race and class. Anyone writing about the World Cup must also acknowledge that the beautiful game is now bound up with racial privilege, exploitation and the deaths of men, who should not be forgotten so readily.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/21/qatar-human-rights-sport-cohen?CMP=twt_gu

[hektor]

Maybe it is a good opportunity for Oslo. The weather in March must be comparable to February in Germany.

[ofan]

It's up against the World Series in the US and the supposed leagues in Europe are also headed for their closing weeks, aren't they? That's why.

I meant in terms of the weather.

[BABYLON]

What's it like in Qatar at this time of year? Or in March/April? Could they stage WC around now?

April and early May 2022 won't work because it will be Ramadan. September and October tend to be hotter the the hottest summer in Europe. You really need to be in an air-conditioned space from May until the end of October. What we call in the U.S. "heat wave" is the normal weather in the Arabian desert and if you have a light skin, you better cover it with plenty of sunscreen all the time.