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F1 2009 - The Official Thread


Rob.

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Brawn are really proving, it seems, that huge amounts of money are not the answer as Ferrari is in last place for points despite all the money they put into their efforts.

No, the opposite is true.

Brawn's car was built with one of the biggest budgets in F1, Honda's...so that argument doesn't quite fly. They don't now have the money to develop it much further but don't fool yourself into believing this car wasn't built on a huge budget with a major manufacter's backing just because it doesn't have the Honda name on it anymore. Honda built a rubbish car in 08 and decided that, rather than develop it they'd instead focus all their efforts and money on building the 09 car. They did, then pulled out of F1 because of the financial crisis, and Brawn GP have inherited a superb car built on a massive budget over a time period none of the other teams (certainly not those fighting for the championship last year) have had.

Red Bull spent a packet getting Adrian Newey's design team on board (the team that had a hand in the winning McLaren's of the last few seasons) and are also joining Ferraris and Toyotas in threatening a pull-out.

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Renault join F1 pull-out threat

Renault are the latest high-profile team threatening to quit Formula 1 unless proposals to adopt a £40m budget cap in 2010 are shelved.

On Tuesday, Ferrari joined Toyota and Red Bull in declaring their intention to pull out of F1 because of the plans.

And Renault boss Flavio Briatore has adopted a similar stance.

"If the decisions announced by the FIA are not revised, we have no choice but to withdraw from the world championship at the end of 2009," he said.

The FIA, the sport's governing body, want an optional £40m budget cap in order to encourage new teams to enter.

The plan would allow capped teams to operate with far greater technical freedom than those continuing with unlimited budgets.

However, big teams fear the rules will effectively split F1 into two tiers, those that can live with the cap and enjoy the technical advantages and those that cannot.

It is understood a flexible rear wing alone, currently outlawed but available to a team next season working within the cap, could lead to a car being two seconds per lap quicker than those without. (i.e. even though the FIA are allowing the big teams the option of going over the cap, they'll never produce a winning car if they do; so they're not really being given any option and the FIA know this)

"Renault has always considered Formula One as the pinnacle of motor sport and the perfect stage to demonstrate technical excellence," Renault F1 team president Bernard Rey said in a statement. "We remain committed to the sport.

"However, we cannot be involved in a championship operating with different sets of rules and, if such rules are put into effect, we will be forced to pull out at the end of this season."

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How can we expect teams like McLaren and Ferrari to go from a £300m+ budget to a £40m budget in one season? It's far too much too soon. And yes, the budget cap is supposed to be optional but the lack of technical freedom available for teams going over the cap will mean it won't be worth any team's time.

This will affect jobs and the motorsport industry at a time when industry should be backed. Yes, the sport should always be looking at ways of being more competitive, but I'm not sure this is the way. You're right no team is bigger than the sport, and Ferrari and Toyota are the only teams who've threatened to quit over this, but FOTA, the body representing the teams, say there is unanmity in opposing this plan.

BTW, welcome back Arwebb. Haven't seen you around for a while.

Didn't realise I was so missed.

If all the teams oppose this plan, and I'm not convinced either way on it to be honest, then it seems to me that they haven't learnt the lessons of Honda. I don't agree with Max Mosley on much, but he is right when he says the current levels of spending in Formula One are unsustainable. I fully expect that some sort of compromise will be reached in the fullness of time, but the principle of reducing costs must not be lost. That would be disastrous.

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Sir Jackie Stewart has it spot on

"The FIA simply take money, they don't make money without the teams and yet they want to tell BMW, Ferrari, Renault, Toyota, Mercedes, these huge successful companies, how much they can afford in F1. Why should I be told how to spend by someone who is not investing in my business?

"The teams employ a lot of people and if they decide they cannot afford to keep these people then that is their prerogative. But it is one thing for a team to decide to make redundancies, it is another for the FIA to decide that they have to do so by insisting on budget cuts."

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5324729,00.html

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I have enormous admiration and respect for Sir Jackie Stewart and I understand the point that he is trying to make. But there is a more important point that he and all the opponents of this measure are missing.

Over the last 15 years or so, the Formula One paddock has lost virtually all of the privateer teams, i.e. those not formed by a major motor manufacturer. Names like Brabham, Tyrrell, Lotus, Jordan, Minardi and Stewart and others have disappeared from the grid, seemingly forever, for one reason and one reason alone - it is now too expensive for a privateer team to get into Formula One and stay there for any length of time and be able to challenge for race wins, let alone championships. Because of that, the grid is smaller than it once was and, if any other teams suffered the same sort of financial meltdown that Honda did, then there is a real risk of an unsustainable series. That is the problem that the FIA, whether it is doing so rightly or wrongly, is seeking to address.

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But if you do it wrongly it can alienate a lot of teams and do considerably more damage than good.

Remember the 1 set of tire fiasco?

Now I hear there is going to be no refueling allowed during a race???

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It seems like using a guillotine to cure a headache. There must be better ways of making things more competitive and more open for privateer teams than enforcing budget cuts and job losses on the big teams.

RE: refueling, that's definitely true and as far as I know none of the teams have a problem with this.

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Now you know how we felt here in the UK when Schumacher was doing the same. As you said, congratulations to JB, it looks like he's well on his way.

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Now you know how we felt here in the UK when Schumacher was doing the same. As you said, congratulations to JB, it looks like he's well on his way.

But Schumi was a deserved World Champion! He was a good driver in a good car. Button is an average driver in a superb car. Thats a huge difference. You know i dont like him. Maybe thats reason, why i feel he is an undeserved World Champion. With this season before my eyes, I have to confess, that I was wrong. Hamilton was a deserved winner last year.

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That's big of you. Respect due.

However, I think Button will be a deserved winner if he wins. But his car is much more dominant than Hamilton's McLaren was last year (which was fairly equal to the Ferraris but had the edge on reliability). In equal cars I think the current world champion would be the winner, although he had an awful time this weekend.

This is what I was saying earlier on, the difference between a racer and a driver. Button is arguably one of the best drivers on the grid (which is why he rarely gets into trouble and is very light on his car's engine and tyres). He's not one of the best racers; that's topped by the likes of Hamilton and Alonso.

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God this season is boring, Button is a douche and just happened to have his lucky arse in the lucky car this year. If anyone else pretty much was in that car they would be winning all the races this season. boring.

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And that makes him a douche because?

Sometimes things fall right for you in sport. And that's happening for Brawn-Button. Good luck to them!

It would be nice to have things shaken up a bit though, I'd agree there. It's never good to have one team so dominant. But the onus is on the other teams to catch up - in my mind they've been the douches so far. Don't blame Brawn and Button for this season going the way it is!!

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Monaco is an odd circuit. I think Red Bull and Ferrari will do well at the next two races - Silverstone and Istanbul.

However Brawn have such a good lead at the moment that if Ferrari and Red Bull take points of each other Brawn should come home with the championship.

Could be a closer end to the season than you think - remember Schumi chasing down Alonso in 2006

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But Schumi was a deserved World Champion! He was a good driver in a good car. Button is an average driver in a superb car. Thats a huge difference. You know i dont like him. Maybe thats reason, why i feel he is an undeserved World Champion. With this season before my eyes, I have to confess, that I was wrong. Hamilton was a deserved winner last year.

Are you telling us that nobody else other than Schumacher could have won titles in the dominant Ferrari of 2001, 2002 and 2004, for example? If that's what you're saying I don't buy it. Button has always had ability and when he has had a decent car, such as 2004, that has been shown. To say he is 'average' is, in my mind, somewhat harsh.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Edit > Copy

Button wins again

Edit > Paste

Button wins again

It'll be great to see another British Champion but even I'm starting to get bored with this now!! :P

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  • 2 weeks later...

F1 teams drop breakaway bombshell

Formula 1 has been thrown into chaos after eight of its major teams said they are now planning to set up a rival championship for the 2010 season.

The threat by members of the F1 Teams Association (Fota) escalates their row with world motorsport boss Max Mosley over his budget cap proposals.

"The teams have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 F1 Championship," said the teams.

"We've no alternative than to commence preparation for a new championship."

Mosley was insistent on introducing a voluntary £40m budget cap for teams to curtail a "financial arms race" in F1.

But Fota refused to agree to his conditions, prompting championship leader Brawn GP, Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, Toyota, BMW Sauber, Red Bull Racing and Toro Rosso to take their drastic action.

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The sooner Bernie and Max are out of the loop the better, but I question how well the teams will be able to manage their own series and maintain their unity.

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I see Mosley has inevitably dismissed this. Can't say I'm surprised by that because we have been in similar places to this before. But somebody's got to knock some heads together sooner or later.

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Ironic really. The most boring race of the year and it wasn't Button that won it.

By the way, the pronouncement from Ecclestone that it's back to Silverstone if Donington Park isn't ready is certainly better late than never.

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Ironic really. The most boring race of the year and it wasn't Button that won it.

By the way, the pronouncement from Ecclestone that it's back to Silverstone if Donington Park isn't ready is certainly better late than never.

Missed that one, good news. But in this week of F1 news it's like a chocolate coating on a turd.

Donnington seems so far off being ready from what I've heard. Silverstone will be hosting next year if Ecclestone's pronouncement is correct; whether it'll be hosting F1 or "The World GP Series" (or whatever the teams call it) is another question.

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