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French Potential Applicants For 2018...


cfm Jeremie

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Amen to all that.

I am glad the CNOSF seems to finally have waken up!

Rubbish!

France has always been only too keen to be present on the international sporting scene.

Unfortunately it has always been met with disdain by the anglophile majority who won't allow anyone else but themselves in what they see as their private back yard.

And before you accuse me of being a paranoid French sour grape cry baby, let be give two examples:

* repeated attempts by McQuaid of the UCI to sabotage the Tour de France, the jewel in the French sporting crown. Thankfully, it failed.

* when Jean François Lamour was touted to succeed Dick Pound at the WADA, Australia, New Zealand and the USA engineered a last minute "coup" to have him removed. Now the agency is run by a New Zealander who knows next to nothing about doping in sport.

As for France's bid to the 2018 WOG, it's just a face saving exercise by Serandour who is trying to get people to forget his incompetence as head of the CNOSF (his management of the French "badge" incident before Beijing 2008 was downright shameful....).

As I already said elsewhere, either France will be ignored for the 2018 WOGs, or it will be awarded the games if only to keep Paris away from a 2020/2024 SOG bid.

Whatever the result it'll be a lose/lose situation....

You're just negative, You look like just a loser.

If I read you, there is nothing to do... French NOC is inefficient... The Anglo-Saxon world is against France... Snif ! Snif... So we just have to stay tune on TV to watch the Olympics all around the world or go out every summer to support some athletes (not all clear!) to ride a bicycle all around France.

I am sorry, but I will not stay home, be proud of myself and just wait to see if may be by lack of applicant city there will be one day the possibility to organize the games !

We should wake up and change things...

Yes, the Anglo-Saxon countries are may be protective. But, it's because we do not have the same culture. Sport is not part of our culture. It comes after literature, arts, sciences, .... We could be proud of our history, our great writers, ... but we have nothing to be proud regarding the place of sport in our country. That must change.

- So inside our border, we should make our revolution.... It will be hard, but our politicians start to understand it, because sport is a necessity for our young generation to grow up in an healthy world. And sport could help to solve some problems of integration for example. But that's a long job. We should start now and may be will have results in only 25 years !

Regarding the CNOSF, it is also changing. I know well the French Olympic Movement since 16 years now and during the 14 first years, i would have been as much negative as you. But since 2 years and specially since a few months, things went better and the French NOC has started to prepare the future (if you read carefully the 2018 Questionnaire, you will see some points showing that professionals are involved and that CNOSF wants to control the process to be part of it and not just be a spectator like during the 2012 race).

- But also outside our borders. France has never been active on the International Sporting Scene since WW2 (beside organizing some international events). But it start to change. A new generation of sports representatives and sports experts start to be present or to work worldwide. This is new since the Paris 2012 defeat. This is the beginning of a good and modern lobbying.

Regarding your examples.

First, check your source, but John Fahley is not from New Zealand, but from Australia. May be he is not a past ministry of sport, but he is well known as a good politician and was during 6 years Finance Ministry in Australia. And it seems that it do not act too bad at the head of WADA since one year. And the election in Madrid last year show that France is not good in lobbying. We are not able to conduct the deal to the end... And, personally, I do not approve the way of reaction of Lamour. He "burned" himself and will wait a long time to play an international role. It's a shame because I thought he had a good potential...

Second, regarding the Tour de France "the jewel in french sporting crown" !!! Yes, it internationally known (I was bluffed this summer to get a free live covering each night during 2 hours in Australia !). But, that's no more part of "sport". I explain. This race, this event is unique. But, it could exist by itself. This is a business that do not need any sport regulation body. No IOC, no IF even no National Sport Ministry. ASO, the Tour de France organiser has a product related to sport they could manage by themselves. And they were ready to do it. But, for me it's nothing to deal with the Olympic Ideal. Sport is here to be together, to work together, to collaborate. I do not approve the UCI policies during all the past years, but ASO and UCI should find solutions to work together. We could have several "sports' leaders" managing a same sport (like we have in boxing with several IFs !)

S to conclude, even if France is ignored for the 2018 WOG, it will not be a disillusion, but an apprenticeship. So France will restart for YOG 2016 or 2018, SOG 2020 or WOG 2022. And sports representatives, Olympic experts, Lobbying consultants will continue to be in contact with the Olympic Family...

And at the same time, France Sport Culture will have been increased.... so we will be ready to host and organise all the biggest international events.

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Let's look at a few facts:

  • How many French IF President compared to let's say Italy? (answer : one, René Roch who never managed to get elected to the IOC)
  • When was there a French IOC Members on the Executive Board for the last time?
  • Except Killy, the French IOC members are non-existant and (former IOC member) Serandour and Drut both managed to get warning from the Ethics Commission
  • The CNOSF is well known in the Olympic Movement for spending more time defending French language than anything else. Look at how many Paris presenters spoke a foreign language during Paris 2012 presentation compared to London where both Craig Reedie and Tony Blair spoke French: it's only a symbol but it tells a lot.
  • The CNOSF has failed for years getting a French athletes elected to the IOC athletes commission because it preferred putting forward athletes popular among French politicians than among the athletes...
  • How many women on the CNOSF board?
  • Lamour refused to fight for the WADA Presidency. He could at least have tried to get elected but prefer to withdraw for fear of losing. That's a sportsman spirit.
  • "anglophile majority"? For years, the Olympic Movement was governed by Samaranch / Nebiolo / Rana, all well known anglophiles... Even now, Rogge is as much anglophile than he is francophile, Diack spent a lot of his life in France...

Before being awarded the 2012 Games, UK has failed 3 times (Birmingham and Manchester twice), also failed to be awarded WC 2006 and Rugby WC 2007, lost the organisation of the IAAF 2005 WC... But, except for a few people on this board, they are not whiners, they got their act together and won London 2012.

So yea, keep whining about the world being unfair to us French, that will certainly help us getting the Games.

And I don't see wining 2018 as a losing situation. Even without 2018, it won't be easy to get the Games to Paris any time soon.

Well said.

I will just add something regarding your first point. The only IFs president, René Roch, has never do nothing to help French Olympic Bids in the past.... May be if did not see positive things inside the old french NOC... But things change. I don't know if it is directly connect to an french NOC evolution, but Roch was a support of the Paris 2010 bid to organize the Fencing World Championship in Paris. And it's done, as Paris will welcome in November 2010 in Grand Palais (near the Champs Elysees) this event.

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To win 2024, I think Paris has to replace the Stade de France with a more imaginative, iconic stadium that better represents La Belle France and what could possibly be a 3rd-time hosting duty. It has to be a beautiful, state-of-the-art structure -- not necessarily as extravagant as Birds Nest, but certainly something that will capture the IOC's imagination, and on which to anchor the bid. Let Mo have a go at it -- I bet the GB regulars could put together quite a competent, realistic Paris 2024 bid package.

I agree.

Stade de France would be too old for SOG in 15 years

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Let's look at a few facts:

[*]How many French IF President compared to let's say Italy? (answer : one, René Roch who never managed to get elected to the IOC)

Whose fault is that?

You can hardly blame France for not getting elected to an international federation if they're not wanted.

Is it Segolène Royal's fault the French electors didn't vote her in?

Funny logic if you ask me....

[*]When was there a French IOC Members on the Executive Board for the last time?

ditto

[*]Except Killy, the French IOC members are non-existent and (former IOC member) Serandour and Drut both managed to get warning from the Ethics Commission

ditto

I don't remember when Sérandour was warned by the ethics commission. As for Guy Drut, his misdemeanours had *nothing* to do with the IOC or sport in general and were purely domestic. At least France has an independent judiciary and French politicians are brought to justice.

[*]The CNOSF is well known in the Olympic Movement for spending more time defending French language than anything else. Look at how many Paris presenters spoke a foreign language during Paris 2012 presentation compared to London where both Craig Reedie and Tony Blair spoke French: it's only a symbol but it tells a lot.

Excuse me but the last time I looked French was one of the two official languages of the IOC.

What are our bidders suppose to do? Learn Mandarin?

[*]The CNOSF has failed for years getting a French athletes elected to the IOC athletes commission because it preferred putting forward athletes popular among French politicians than among the athletes...

Oh right.

So if there are no French athletes elected to the IOC athletes commission, it's the CNOSF's fault?

Has it ever occurred to you that the AC just don't want French athlete?

(there I go again being paranoid!!)

[*]How many women on the CNOSF board?

How many women in the IOC?

[*]Lamour refused to fight for the WADA Presidency. He could at least have tried to get elected but prefer to withdraw for fear of losing. That's a sportsman spirit.

Lamour was perceptive enough to recognise a bear trap when he saw one. He turned to Pound for support but he was too busy eyeing the ICAS presidency and needed all the friends he could get so dropped him like a hot potato. Lamour wasn't going to give his enemies in the WADA the satisfaction of a public humiliation and did the right thing. He left....

So yea, keep whining about the world being unfair to us French, that will certainly help us getting the Games.

I'm not whining.

I'm level headedly stating cold facts.

I'm sorry if those facts don't meet with your rose tinted agenda.

As for getting the Games, I'm not so sure that the French have got it in their heart to go for it. Not in the foreseeable future, that is.

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To win 2024, I think Paris has to replace the Stade de France with a more imaginative, iconic stadium that better represents La Belle France and what could possibly be a 3rd-time hosting duty. It has to be a beautiful, state-of-the-art structure -- not necessarily as extravagant as Birds Nest, but certainly something that will capture the IOC's imagination, and on which to anchor the bid. Let Mo have a go at it -- I bet the GB regulars could put together quite a competent, realistic Paris 2024 bid package.

I don't think that's a vote winner for any budding French politician...

"Hello French voters. Lets raze the SdF to the ground and spend billions an' billions of Euros so that we can host the Olympics games. You know, those games for which we got slapped in the face three times! Oh, btw, don't forget to vote for meeeeee!”

:P

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You're just negative, You look like just a loser.

If I read you, there is nothing to do... French NOC is inefficient... The Anglo-Saxon world is against France... Snif ! Snif... So we just have to stay tune on TV to watch the Olympics all around the world or go out every summer to support some athletes (not all clear!) to ride a bicycle all around France.

I am sorry, but I will not stay home, be proud of myself and just wait to see if may be by lack of applicant city there will be one day the possibility to organize the games !

We should wake up and change things...

Yes, the Anglo-Saxon countries are may be protective. But, it's because we do not have the same culture. Sport is not part of our culture. It comes after literature, arts, sciences, .... We could be proud of our history, our great writers, ... but we have nothing to be proud regarding the place of sport in our country. That must change.

- So inside our border, we should make our revolution.... It will be hard, but our politicians start to understand it, because sport is a necessity for our young generation to grow up in an healthy world. And sport could help to solve some problems of integration for example. But that's a long job. We should start now and may be will have results in only 25 years !

Regarding the CNOSF, it is also changing. I know well the French Olympic Movement since 16 years now and during the 14 first years, i would have been as much negative as you. But since 2 years and specially since a few months, things went better and the French NOC has started to prepare the future (if you read carefully the 2018 Questionnaire, you will see some points showing that professionals are involved and that CNOSF wants to control the process to be part of it and not just be a spectator like during the 2012 race).

- But also outside our borders. France has never been active on the International Sporting Scene since WW2 (beside organizing some international events). But it start to change. A new generation of sports representatives and sports experts start to be present or to work worldwide. This is new since the Paris 2012 defeat. This is the beginning of a good and modern lobbying.

I hear what you’re saying.

I’m just hoping you’re right.

If you are, I’m prepared to eat my words.

(thanks for the ‘loser’ btw….)

Regarding your examples.

First, check your source, but John Fahley is not from New Zealand, but from Australia. May be he is not a past ministry of sport, but he is well known as a good politician and was during 6 years Finance Ministry in Australia. And it seems that it do not act too bad at the head of WADA since one year. And the election in Madrid last year show that France is not good in lobbying. We are not able to conduct the deal to the end... And, personally, I do not approve the way of reaction of Lamour. He "burned" himself and will wait a long time to play an international role. It's a shame because I thought he had a good potential...

http://www.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/...711078820071117

“Born on Jan 10, 1945 in New Zealand, he became a naturalized Australian in 1973.”

Would you consider Rupert Murdoch as being Australian or American?

Second, regarding the Tour de France "the jewel in French sporting crown" !!! Yes, it internationally known (I was bluffed this summer to get a free live covering each night during 2 hours in Australia !). But, that's no more part of "sport". I explain. This race, this event is unique. But, it could exist by itself. This is a business that do not need any sport regulation body. No IOC, no IF even no National Sport Ministry. ASO, the Tour de France organiser has a product related to sport they could manage by themselves. And they were ready to do it. But, for me it's nothing to deal with the Olympic Ideal. Sport is here to be together, to work together, to collaborate. I do not approve the UCI policies during all the past years, but ASO and UCI should find solutions to work together. We could have several "sports' leaders" managing a same sport (like we have in boxing with several IFs !)

The repeated attempts by an IOC member to damage our most important sporting event is indicative of the whole attitude of some members’ hostility to France.

Btw, I don’t remember any IOC members springing to the defence of the TdF.

“Qui ne dit mot, consent….”

S to conclude, even if France is ignored for the 2018 WOG, it will not be a disillusion, but an apprenticeship. So France will restart for YOG 2016 or 2018, SOG 2020 or WOG 2022. And sports representatives, Olympic experts, Lobbying consultants will continue to be in contact with the Olympic Family...

I think you’re confusing Paris with Istanbul!

Stalkers we ain’t…..

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Whose fault is that?

You can hardly blame France for not getting elected to an international federation if they're not wanted.

Is it Segolène Royal's fault the French electors didn't vote her in?

Funny logic if you ask me....

Two remarks:

  • How many French candidates to top position within IF?
  • When you run for a position, if you are not elected it's partly your fault. It's insulting for the voters to imply that it is wrong for them not to vote for you... You have a very strange idea of democracy.

ditto

Again, how many times has a French ran for a seat on the Executive Board? I can remember of Guy Drut running once in the last 20 years...

Get you facts straight before whining.

ditto

I don't remember when Sérandour was warned by the ethics commission. As for Guy Drut, his misdemeanours had *nothing* to do with the IOC or sport in general and were purely domestic. At least France has an independent judiciary and French politicians are brought to justice.

Well Serandour was warned. See IOC Ethics Commission Recommendation.

So what if the misdemeanours of Drut had nothing to do with the IOC or sport in general. It remains that 2 of 3 French IOC members had problems with justice: it certainly didn't put the French Olympic movement in a positive light. I have no doubt that France could put forward candidates with no problem with ethics.

Excuse me but the last time I looked French was one of the two official languages of the IOC.

What are our bidders suppose to do? Learn Mandarin?

Precisely, one of the two official languages.

The very least you could expect is for French sports officials to speak decent English.

It's a matter of efficiency: a lot of IOC members do not speak French. French bidders have to make an effort to reach out to these members.

Speaking a litlle Spanish wouldn't hurt either.

Oh right.

So if there are no French athletes elected to the IOC athletes commission, it's the CNOSF's fault?

Has it ever occurred to you that the AC just don't want French athlete?

(there I go again being paranoid!!)

Let me tell you a little story.

For the Athens 2004 Olympics, the French athletes wanted to put forward Stéphane Diagana as a candidate. The CNOSF chose David Douillet, a friend of Chirac. Problems: Douillet was not very popular among the French athletes for a start, judo is a minor sports within the Olympics (athletes from a given sport tend to vote for their sport representatives). I can assure you that Diagana would have had a far better chance of getting elected.

How many women in the IOC?

(Too) few. So what?

Compare Paris 2012 delegation in Singapore to those of other candidate cities: old white men in grey... No woman, no people of colour, no athletes presenting... This reflects neither the nature of the French society nor the Olympic Movement.

Lamour was perceptive enough to recognise a bear trap when he saw one. He turned to Pound for support but he was too busy eyeing the ICAS presidency and needed all the friends he could get so dropped him like a hot potato. Lamour wasn't going to give his enemies in the WADA the satisfaction of a public humiliation and did the right thing. He left....

That's a way to see it.

I stick to my opinion: Lamour demonstrated poor sportsmanship.

I'm not whining.

I'm level headedly stating cold facts.

I'm sorry if those facts don't meet with your rose tinted agenda.

As for getting the Games, I'm not so sure that the French have got it in their heart to go for it. Not in the foreseeable future, that is.

I have proven you didn't post facts, merely opinions.

About my rose tinted agenda: I have been working with the various (French and from other countries) candidate cities for more than 10 years, I have worked with the IOC Athletes Commission, I have followed IOC Sessions, I have met and exchanged with several IOC members.. I know what I am talking about.

Your kind of attitude, which basically says "We are candidates, we should be given the Games", is precisely the reason why we are tagged as arrogant, over and over again.

When you fail to get elected you have to ask yourself questions, even tough ones.

Thankfully, that's what the CNOSF has started doing...

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I was under the impression that the whole point of this MB was for one to be able to voice an opinion.

Apologies if I got it wrong......

You can patronize me all you want: you claimed you have stated cold facts when you didn't.

And this last sentence is tasty from someone who called someone else post rubbish...

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I don't think that's a vote winner for any budding French politician...

"Hello French voters. Lets raze the SdF to the ground and spend billions an' billions of Euros so that we can host the Olympics games. You know, those games for which we got slapped in the face three times! Oh, btw, don't forget to vote for meeeeee!”

:P

well then, 2024 won't go Paris' way. You can't have it both ways. The IOC doesn't care what the voters think -- because if they aren't presented with a beautfiul plate by one city, they can always get it from another. So have it your way...

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Well, Paris 2024 could propose fanciful reconstruction and renderings of SdF and then after winning the bid, declare that such reconstruction is too taxing on the budget, the environment, and what ever cause-du-jour is popular in 2019.

France could also heavily support Munich 2018 and Zaragoza 2022 to eliminate Berlin and Madrid from the "next for Europe" turn in 2024. They'll still have Rome to worry about, but that would just make the race interesting.

Anyway, as for France 2018...I still don't care for the idea as I think they should gun for Paris 2024. But if that is the case, then Nice would be nice. :)

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Oh, it's not necessary. Rome(orwhateverelse) is probably going to kill its own bid. And btw I'm pretty confident Italy won't get them before the 30's.

I wouldn't say that. If a European country 2020, the next would be in Rio or Cape Town and than back to Europe to 2028.

Rome, Berlin, Paris and Madrid all seem in line for the games at some point soon. Barcelona hosting in 1992 and Italy hosting in 2006 would mean that advantage Paris and Berlin but if Munich wins 2018, it would be advantage Paris and we all know how easily they are beaten.

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