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The 4 most important "factors" to win the bid


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Hello to all. Im a newbie. Maybe a little late, to take part of this forum? Hehe. OK, OK. =)

And GOOD LUCK to ALL the CITIES. The best shall win.

:;):

I dont think human being decides always evaluating "facts" and processing those to get a statistic result.

I like to decide following my feelings. Well. maybe feelings are the result of evaluate facts too?

Ermm.   :oo:

But in my opinion those human beings will have to "evaluate" the ... "impressions" won out of serveral months of studying the bids, i suposse.

But which are for you, lets say the 4 most important factors, in this evaluation of each IOC member?

P.S.: Would be very nice, if we try to find a way to discuss this without attacking other bids, countries or forum users, or even insult eachother. Like i said. Would be very nice.

:wwww:   FAIR PLAY! :upside:

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Welcome 'Good luck to all' sweetie!  No - you are never too late to join this forum as there are always Olympic votes for people on here.  Next Wednesday it will be a bit of a mess with people arguing etc, and then the forum will gear itself to the 2014 Winter Oympics vote.  It's as simple as that!!!

And besides, if Madrid wins, you will be glad to be on here to vote your opinions on what is going on with the process in  Madrid!!!  The same goes for whoever wins...  :laughlong:

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At first thanks for this nice welcome. Greetings back.

And thanks for your post answering that quick.

Ohh yes. If you think 3 or 5 or 6 factors are very important, the "spanish inquisition" went to bed already.

So we are free to put as much factors as we like! =)

:upside:

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At first thanks for this nice welcome. Greetings back.

And thanks for your post answering that quick.

Ohh yes. If you think 3 or 5 or 6 factors are very important, the "spanish inquisition" went to bed already.

So we are free to put as much factors as we like! =)

:upside:

How true - I did find it difficult just coming up with the four - I had so many more!!   :D

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Sure.

Post some more.

Or even give your opinion about who of the bids leads (trying to be fair, if possible  :upside: ) in each section/factor.

Arguments that make you think a bid is leading a cathegory would be of course welcome too, i think.

:oops:  Im just curious.

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I think that changes with every bid cycle.

But this time around...

1 - Organization (they will want an easy Games as a future model for exploring options in Africa and South America)

2 - Security (a big factor in this post-9/11 world)

3 - Cost (Athens was expensive, Beijing will be even more so.  2012 must be more cost sensitive for that and the reasons in number one)

4 - Politics (always a factor)

I would say the factors in 2008 were different

1 - Politics (JAS wanted China, especially after 1993)

2 - Marketing opportunities (China's rapidly growing economy)

3 - Prestige (the world's largest population hosting the world's biggest sporting event)

4 - Legacy (mostly for JAS and the IOC but some for China)

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POLITICS

I agree with you, thinking the next SOG will have strong bids from Africa and South America.

Maybe Rio, Buenos Aires, Santiago de Chile for South America; who knows if Cuba gets a Democracy!!! before 2009 election. And in Africa? Tunisia, South Africa and ...?

Thinking of those cities for the future, NYC, London and Madrid would have less chances to host 2012 games, cause of geographical and language aspects?  

Uhmmm. Could be a very important reason to give this games to Moscow or Paris.

Maybe politics are more important than we think. Indeed.

:oo:

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I would say that the 4 most important factors are:

Legacy

Delivery

Support

Security

I have a problem with the factor "Legacy" i must say.

How can we evaluate Legacy.

Does it means a better transport system?

A better enviroment?

High costs that wouldnt be really necessary without hosting the games and could have a better effect, investing them in a natural development of the city?

How can a IOC Member evaluate "Legacy"?

Do they have tables or do they know what is most important?

I mean support is more easily evaluable. isnt it?

Uhmmm. Or maybe someone knows a site or a report where the IOC explains this?

That would be nice, to know.  Thanks.

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POLITICS

I agree with you, thinking the next SOG will have strong bids from Africa and South America.

Maybe Rio, Buenos Aires, Santiago de Chile for South America; who knows if Cuba gets a Democracy!!! before 2009 election. And in Africa? Tunisia, South Africa and ...?

Thinking of those cities for the future, NYC, London and Madrid would have less chances to host 2012 games, cause of geographical and language aspects?  

Uhmmm. Could be a very important reason to give this games to Moscow or Paris.

Maybe politics are more important than we think. Indeed.

:oo:

Don't forget Moscow or Paris in that quotation!!   :laughlong:

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COSTS

Like it seems Mr. Rogge said all bids would deliver excellent games .... so

The lower the budget the better the chances to host the games?

The lower the impact in the city budget, the better ....

(let me see who has the lowest budget ...  :Oo: )

Are Olympic games always profitable for the hosting cities and who does control those budgets after Games? Does reports about budget after-games exist?

Poor IOC members.They must be real allround-genies.

:wwww:  WOW

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^ Geopolitics was the primary reason why Beijing won 2008, it again was the primary reason for Vancouver 2010 two years ago tomorrow, and it will be repeated on Wednesday.

Should I also mention that Vancouver won because of those European cities who wanted to bid for 2012? Voting for Vancouver would kill any hopes of Toronto 2012 and would be a big blow to NYC 2012. The final saga of the 2010 soap opera is about to end. Yes, 2010. Not 2012. 2012 began all with 2010. Geopolitics.

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Most important things for IOC active members during the vote :

1) quality of food they had in the morning

2) quantity of money they will receive in end of the month

3) quality of bed they slept in

4) quality of cable TV and internet to have few information on candidates cities

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Most important things for IOC active members during the vote :

1) quality of food they had in the morning

2) quantity of money they will receive in end of the month

3) quality of bed they slept in

4) quality of cable TV and internet to have few information on candidates cities

you forgot the best department Stores for the IOC wives to shop in.  And they will remember the Oprah incident with Hermes.  New York has much better department stores than Paris or Madrid.   :)

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^ Geopolitics was the primary reason why Beijing won 2008, it again was the primary reason for Vancouver 2010 two years ago tomorrow, and it will be repeated on Wednesday.

Should I also mention that Vancouver won because of those European cities who wanted to bid for 2012? Voting for Vancouver would kill any hopes of Toronto 2012 and would be a big blow to NYC 2012. The final saga of the 2010 soap opera is about to end. Yes, 2010. Not 2012. 2012 began all with 2010. Geopolitics.

Interesting indeed.

(Im a "madrileño". I support 2M12, but i think it could probably be to early since Barcelona 92.)

Do we have to consider Albertville 1992?

Great Britain didnt host games since 48.

And if like you said NYC 2012 has a big handycap with Vancouver, Paris should better get a quick majority of the votes, because, and i think im not the only one who could think that, most of the IOC NYC-votes would go to London easily.

If Madrid fails before NYC, most probaly Paris get best chances to win, also.

------------------------------------

Please, this is just my opinion and i still hope for Madrid 2012 (we really support the games in our city and country), allthough im not convinced that Madrid has a lower quality bid, maybe the opossite. Low cost, highest support, maybe best transport, "green-games" (Greenpeace supports the bid), almost 83% of venues build or getting build, but also Madrid has the Peineta-bomb, Barcelona 92, ...

But .... im not the IOC and its the one who has to decide.

So ... the best shall win.

:;):

Saludos from the sunny Spain.

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Most important things for IOC active members during the vote :

1) quality of food they had in the morning

2) quantity of money they will receive in end of the month

3) quality of bed they slept in

4) quality of cable TV and internet to have few information on candidates cities

you forgot the best department Stores for the IOC wives to shop in.  And they will remember the Oprah incident with Hermes.  New York has much better department stores than Paris or Madrid.   :)

:shocked:

Ohhh s**t. Yesssss.

Wives of members.  How could we foret them.

Most important factor.

Wives are the real "voters".  :oops:

If you wanna buy a car (supossing you are male), who decides?

If you wanna buy a house, who decides?

If you have to choose the place to go on vacations, the beach to head, who decides?

Maybe Madrid has atleast best chances, cause of the Beach-and Sun-Topic? hehe

Opps. I forgot Madrid doesnt have a beach.  :upside:

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I don't think legacy will have any impact on this run.  Only two of these cities will see any real legacy from hosting the Olympics - Moscow and Madrid - as their global profiles will be increased.  The other three cities are among the best known and powerful cities on the planet - Rome, Hong Kong and Tokyo being on that list as well.  The legacy of the Games in Paris, NYC or London will be mostly equal.  Compared to some other past host cities, these 3 have less to do in order to prepare for the Olympics and they all come from wealthy nations who can put on big shows.  The Olympics will not transform these cities in the way that Barcelona was transformed and it will not showcase these cities in the way Sydney was showcased because pretty much everyone knows something about these cities.  Their legacy will be minimal and thus the impact of legacy on this vote will be minimal.

And that's why these 3 are so attractive and this race so fascinating.  You have three of the world's leading cities battling head to head (with a couple of spoilers in there to make it more interesting).  In the first part of this century, the IOC shipped the Games off to two cities that are kind of question marks because of political favours owed.  Athens was a shaky choice and Beijing was a controversial choice.  The IOC now stands a chance for a relatively easy ride in 2012.

If the IOC really wanted a "legacy" this time around they would have put Rio de Janeiro on the short list.

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And Vancouver won because it had a very competent bid.  Actually, in retrospect, Vancouver clearly had the best bid for 2010 because it was a respectible and responsible bid.  They have experience, they have many of the venues in place, they didn't promise giant construction projects that were unnecessary, they have a great location for prime time USA ratings, excellent local, national and international support/sponshorship, they have one of the best ski facilities in the world, and they have a metropolitan population of over 2 million that can provide the resources needed to organize excellent OWG's (Salzburg taps in around 200,000;  PyeongChange province has about 45,000).
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And Vancouver won because it had a very competent bid.  Actually, in retrospect, Vancouver clearly had the best bid for 2010 because it was a respectible and responsible bid.  They have experience, they have many of the venues in place, they didn't promise giant construction projects that were unnecessary, they have a great location for prime time USA ratings, excellent local, national and international support/sponshorship, they have one of the best ski facilities in the world, and they have a metropolitan population of over 2 million that can provide the resources needed to organize excellent OWG's (Salzburg taps in around 200,000;  PyeongChange province has about 45,000).

All of what you just said is very true and was a huge factor in why our bid won 2010. Vancouver should and did win; it was by far the best technical bid as you said. As much as I would love to defend Vancouver, geopolitics was the final decisive factor.

HOST CITY VOTE 2010

City                 Round 1          Round 2

Pyeongchang         51                   53

Salzburg               16                    -

Vancouver         40                   56

Explain where those 16 additional votes Vancouver got from Round 2 came from. The only explanation is Salzburg, all 16 votes were European, after the bid was eliminated. The two additional votes Pyeongchang got in Round 2 were from Austria after their country was eliminated.

Geopolitics or geopolitics now, what counts in the end is that the best technical bid, Vancouver, won. :)

AND tomorrow, July 2 @ 8:41 am PST would be Vancouver's second anniversary for winning the 2010 Games.

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Most important things for IOC active members during the vote :

1) quality of food they had in the morning

2) quantity of money they will receive in end of the month

3) quality of bed they slept in

4) quality of cable TV and internet to have few information on candidates cities

you forgot the best department Stores for the IOC wives to shop in.  And they will remember the Oprah incident with Hermes.  New York has much better department stores than Paris or Madrid.   :)

A chance you didn't say London, because NYC can not compete with such stores like Harrods really... Also i am sure It is already hard against Galeries Lafayette in Paris ... ahahah

And, LVMH rulezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  :D

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I don't think legacy will have any impact on this run.  Only two of these cities will see any real legacy from hosting the Olympics - Moscow and Madrid - as their global profiles will be increased.  The other three cities are among the best known and powerful cities on the planet - Rome, Hong Kong and Tokyo being on that list as well.  The legacy of the Games in Paris, NYC or London will be mostly equal.  Compared to some other past host cities, these 3 have less to do in order to prepare for the Olympics and they all come from wealthy nations who can put on big shows.  The Olympics will not transform these cities in the way that Barcelona was transformed and it will not showcase these cities in the way Sydney was showcased because pretty much everyone knows something about these cities.  Their legacy will be minimal and thus the impact of legacy on this vote will be minimal.

And that's why these 3 are so attractive and this race so fascinating.  You have three of the world's leading cities battling head to head (with a couple of spoilers in there to make it more interesting).  In the first part of this century, the IOC shipped the Games off to two cities that are kind of question marks because of political favours owed.  Athens was a shaky choice and Beijing was a controversial choice.  The IOC now stands a chance for a relatively easy ride in 2012.

If the IOC really wanted a "legacy" this time around they would have put Rio de Janeiro on the short list.

Well. I can agree with the point that legacy wont count as much as before. maybe its cause all cities are big and developed cities.

But, and its not cause im from Madrid, i cant agree that the games would leave a great legacy in Madrid.

Some facts.

Madrid has already most venues finished or under construction. What means: doesnt matter if Madrid host or not the games these venues will be build. Also its why the Madrid budget is one of the lowest or i dont know if the lowest of all 5 bids.

Transports would do a nice legacy too, but als the transport network is, the frontrunner of all 5 cities. Its the IOC who say this. Not me. For example: London has a very high budget on transport to get ready in time for the games. (i know London will manage it fast, efficient and in time - no doubt) But this this would mean,the legacy for London would be much higher in transport-aspect. Green-spaces. Madrid is the second mayor city in the world with more green-spaces per habitant.

Please, i know Madrid isnt that big or important as all other 4 cities are, and maybe Spain sound more like fun and sun,and less technology and organisation. Also another reason why Barcelona 92 was that surprising sucessefull. Enhorabuena Barcelona.

IOC reports speak about:

significant enviromental legacies  --- all cities

but in case of Paris the report speaks of significant legacies in Paris and across France.

London --- A whole region of London would profit of the legacy of games ... also it says: Given the "magnitude of the project (sounds like a big legacy and effort?), careful planning would be required to ensure ....

Madrid --- large areas (east side of madrid is just not contructed just plains, nothing to be regenerated or rehabilitated) into new parks and green zones (more green spaces for the city) maybe after this Madrid isnt the second mayor city in world with most greeen spaces? Would be great =)

transport legacy --- madrid and paris has high capacity and quality transport system --- London would have a big legacy in this aspect. It says for London: Provided that the "substancial" ( very big?) programme (not yet met/plans)...of public transport improvements is fully 8why the word fully?) delivered before 2012 ... the commission believes (not sure?) that transport demands would be met (why not fully met? like in Paris and Madrid f.e.)

And i repeat, i knew british people andi have no doubt the will make it, but its a clear legacy for London.

Sports legacy:

Paris--- shall i go on?

Madrid has already builded or started building 83% of venues...

Maybe i would have thought same as you about Madrid (funand sun - topic), but legacies are not that big in this city.

Really =)

Saludos from the sunny and funny Spain =)

Opps. :upside:

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