Throne Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 "You're darn right the Toronto people haven't paid attention to the details. So what?" ....... oh you simply have NO idea.....whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 We hereby assure you that we are not impressed. "You're darn right the Toronto people haven't paid attention to the details. So what?" ....... oh you simply have NO idea.....whatsoever. See, this is where a perspective from someone who isn't an outsider would be helpful. How do the Toronto people actually feel about this event? Are their perceptions being affected by the details? We know how you feel about such things, but you seem to want to project those feelings onto the masses. And when you are disappointed, surely everyone must be disappointed. If they're not paying attention, then that must be the fault of the organizers for not making it so. This is where you continue to drift further and further from the reality of what the Pan Am Games are and what they mean for a city like Toronto. Let me give you some of my perspective here.. I follow sports like baseball and football and hockey pretty closely. These are sports that remain in the national consciousness virtually year round, as opposed to "Olympic sports" (as they're often referred to here) that only come around every so often, especially on a championship level. But I also revere the Olympics to the point that when they are going on, I shut out almost everything else going on in the sports world to consume as much of the Olympics as I am capable of. That said, I rarely pay attention to many of the ancillary elements of the event. To me, it's all about the event itself When the flame is lit in Olympia, this is something I maybe catch a glimpse of and talk about here (with like-minded people) but it's not something I hold in high regard to my perceptions of the event. It's not an element of an Olympics where I'll look back and think it had much weight in the success or failure of the Games. Right now, this lead-up stuff is all you have to go on. So you're not liking what you're seeing and think it's a harbinger of doom. Again, maybe you're right. But it's still way too early to make that prediction. Think about Sochi.. the last couple of weeks before the Olympics last year, they got all sorts of bad press due to a lack of preparation, largely stemming from hotels not being ready. That's when things start to matter.. when the attention of everyone, not just the host city itself, is focused and ready to form an opinion. Toronto still has the IndyCar race in mid-June. Canada as a whole has the women's World Cup all next month. As these events pass in the calendar and we get closer to what really matters with Toronto, that's when outsiders will start to judge Toronto. Not before then. And if you think it should be otherwise, then 1 of us clearly has no idea whatsoever, but I'm very confident it's not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throne Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I submit, rather emphatically, that the technological age has shattered the concepts of "top secret" and "censored" . Details are now accessible, via the MEDIA (remember them?) to virtually anyone anywhere. You would have to be missing a brain not to understand that the messiness in the details - as carried by the media and through the world wide web - leaves an impact. STOP hallucinating. The news reports concerning this event are framed unfavourably. What happened with the flame actually arriving in Toronto, is just more fuel for the media to exploit and for the city's population to justify opposing it. You are insulting the intellect of the population of the city of Toronto, when you have spent a billion dollars on an event, and in one of the definitive moments, cannot highlight the importance and relevance of such spending by getting the details - at least on this one occasion where the public's eye will be directed most - right. Whatever you do.....I hereby urge you NOT to get into International marketing and promotion. And you are still not getting the concept through your record-breakingly dense skull, that you are dealing with a sporting event that doesn't have a favourable reputation and the public of Toronto knows this. Therefore, Toronto's legacy should be directed at the changing that - NOT to make it an Olympic sized event - but to raise its hemispheric profile to where it ought to be. Can vision be so remote to one person? Dear God help him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Oh my God, this guy is a bigger joke than Rob Ford could ever dream to be...@Throne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 And you are still not getting the concept through your record-breakingly dense skull, that you are dealing with a sporting event that doesn't have a favourable reputation and the public of Toronto knows this. Therefore, Toronto's legacy should be directed at the changing that - NOT to make it an Olympic sized event - but to raise its hemispheric profile to where it ought to be. Can vision be so remote to one person? Dear God help him! No, I understand perfectly that the Pan Am Games doesn't have a favorable reputation. What I don't understand is your insistence that Toronto can single-handedly restore that reputation and if that don't succeed at that, then somehow their hosting of this event is a failure. Why are you putting this on Toronto to do what other cities (including a city that is soon to host an Olympics and another city in Canada) were unable to do? Why do you continue to cling to this Utopian ideal that because Toronto is the city you believe it should be that by hosting the Pan Ams, they will be this enormous boon for the status of the event? Good for Toronto if they achieve that in any small way. If they don't and the Pan Ams run smoothly and shine a spotlight on Toronto, I'd say that's more than acceptable for an event that lacks stature in the country it's being hosted in. There's only so much Toronto can do to change that, the least of which comes from the start of the torch relay 6 weeks before the start of the Games. I submit, rather emphatically, that the technological age has shattered the concepts of "top secret" and "censored" . Details are now accessible, via the MEDIA (remember them?) to virtually anyone anywhere. You would have to be missing a brain not to understand that the messiness in the details - as carried by the media and through the world wide web - leaves an impact. STOP hallucinating. The news reports concerning this event are framed unfavourably. What happened with the flame actually arriving in Toronto, is just more fuel for the media to exploit and for the city's population to justify opposing it. You are insulting the intellect of the population of the city of Toronto, when you have spent a billion dollars on an event, and in one of the definitive moments, cannot highlight the importance and relevance of such spending by getting the details - at least on this one occasion where the public's eye will be directed most - right. Whatever you do.....I hereby urge you NOT to get into International marketing and promotion. Well, thank you for the emphasis on your submission. I don't work in marketing or promotion. What I do work in however is sports media, so allow me to help you understand an area you clearly fail to grasp.. Doesn't matter how accessible media coverage of an event is. What matters is how many people consume it. How many people consumed video and stories about the start of the torch relay the other day? Do yourself and the rest of us a favor.. actually go to some websites or other news organizations and show us these news reports that are framing the event unfavorably as opposed to merely claiming that's the case as if we're supposed to assume they agree with your point of view. On CBC's sports page, the main headline is that the Stanley Cup Finals are about to start. Other headlines and prominent links talk about the IndyCar race today, the French Open, and the Blue Jays' game today. A little further down, you'll find some mentions of the Pan Ams. On the Toronto Star sports page, they have this story.. Pan Am torch relay gets off to soggy start in Toronto. Doesn't seem to unfavorable to me, other than that the weather didn't cooperate. Again, Pan Ams coverage is far from the most prominent thing on the sports page. Here's the Toronto Sun story.. Pan Am Games torch relay starts in Toronto. Again, doesn't seem too unfavorable. But again, it's down the priority list in terms of where it's placed on the site. Now you can tell me (and probably will) that the lack of recognition is a serious demerit against Toronto and the visibility of this event. Maybe that's true, but that's also a completely different argument than "news reports concerning this event are framed unfavorably." By conflating those 2 concepts, you're missing the point of at least 1 of them. Just because images and news reports are instantly available in this age of technology is not to say that something like the start of the torch relay for the Pan Am Games (seriously, how much coverage of the start of the Olympic torch relay is there), does not mean that anyone anywhere is necessarily interested in these things. You keep telling us that those who did view the details (and thus left an impact) reacted unfavorably. That seems extremely untrue. Feel free to prove me wrong on that one. Feel free to show me a news report from someone - ANYONE - whose reaction to the start of the torch relay was along the lines of "well, I used to think this money was worth it, but now after seeing this ceremony, I'm unsure." Until you can do that - not just in response to me, but to everyone in this thread participating in this discussion - this is YOUR opinion and yours alone. And I shall treat said opinion as such. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave199 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) On my drive home I noticed the "Toronto 2015" banners up and it wasn't downtown. I was surprised to see them up on Jane St. As for the excitement in the city, it definitely isn't high but I expect that to change once the games are a week away. Edited June 1, 2015 by dave199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 First day of the relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Mata Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 It appears the torch Sheffielded at Teotihuacán. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throne Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Pan Am torch relay gets off to soggy start in Toronto. If you think that this headline is only a reference to the weather, I'm sorely afraid that you are seriously handicapped at reading between the lines. Look. I don't think you mean ill - will. I assure you that I certainly don't. But I am pointing out how detrimental overconfidence is in relation to these things. Getting the visible details right is strategically important to the promotion. And should you ace your promotion, then you'll ace the attendance and that is HALF of the success story. The other half is acing the smooth running of the event. The tragedy is that if I am a potential attendee to this event, and for all the times ( or most of the times) when stories related to this event are foregrounded in the media, those stories are unfavourable, particularly if I see a manifestation of THE VISIBLE things lacking organisation, i.e. the sense that these games are "no big deal" - that will influence my attitude as a product consumer, and it will affect my decision to spend my hard earned money - which is always "A BIG DEAL" - to go see something that has not been presented to me as important. I think you are not grasping this. Further insult to injury is that you spend a billion dollars that I have to repay on an event that is not so important THEN expect me to pay additional money on tickets to actually go see this think? That is extremely insulting to the intellect of the consumer who will resent you for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throne Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Aha! Read the comments following the Pan Am torch relay gets off to soggy start in Toronto. and it is clear that I am correct trajectory of analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTHarner Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 The comments beneath any Pan Am Games article in that paper all always the same, written by the same people over and over. They used to tick me off with their worn out rhetoric, but then I decided they are just a bunch of people who don't like sports and complain constantly about their politicians. To judge the impending success or failure on 20 comments (don't know the exact number since I ignore them), which may or may not have been written by 20 different people is just preposterous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throne Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Advice: You must now foreground the arrival of National Teams in the Media in a dynamic way. The comments beneath any Pan Am Games article in that paper all always the same, written by the same people over and over. They used to tick me off with their worn out rhetoric, but then I decided they are just a bunch of people who don't like sports and complain constantly about their politicians. To judge the impending success or failure on 20 comments (don't know the exact number since I ignore them), which may or may not have been written by 20 different people is just preposterous And how do you know they are the SAME people everytime...all the time? They represent a sample. Such epic denial on your part will not help the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistercorporate Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Throne, Where are you located and what is your primary language? I ask this because, though your spelling is fine for the most part, your usage of grammar and the context of your chosen words is rather bizzare for an English speaker. I've travelled extensively and yet I cannot pinpoint where they speak English like that. Just curious, as I can usually spot someone from Singapore, Eastern Europe, South Asia or Latin America from their usage of English, but yours puzzles me. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Pan Am torch relay gets off to soggy start in Toronto. If you think that this headline is only a reference to the weather, I'm sorely afraid that you are seriously handicapped at reading between the lines. Look. I don't think you mean ill - will. I assure you that I certainly don't. But I am pointing out how detrimental overconfidence is in relation to these things. Getting the visible details right is strategically important to the promotion. And should you ace your promotion, then you'll ace the attendance and that is HALF of the success story. The other half is acing the smooth running of the event. The tragedy is that if I am a potential attendee to this event, and for all the times ( or most of the times) when stories related to this event are foregrounded in the media, those stories are unfavourable, particularly if I see a manifestation of THE VISIBLE things lacking organisation, i.e. the sense that these games are "no big deal" - that will influence my attitude as a product consumer, and it will affect my decision to spend my hard earned money - which is always "A BIG DEAL" - to go see something that has not been presented to me as important. I think you are not grasping this. Further insult to injury is that you spend a billion dollars that I have to repay on an event that is not so important THEN expect me to pay additional money on tickets to actually go see this think? That is extremely insulting to the intellect of the consumer who will resent you for this. Aha! Read the comments following the Pan Am torch relay gets off to soggy start in Toronto. and it is clear that I am correct trajectory of analysis. No, that seems less clear than ever. Are you sure you're not just seeing what you want to see and convincing yourself their analysis agrees with yours? Because that's what it looks like from where I'm sitting. First off, the article and the headline do not require reading between the lines. It was a reference to the weather and I don't see a lot of overly negative references to the ceremony. If you're seeing such things there, you are either A.) hallucinating or B.) so convinced of your own opinion that anything that is written about the Pan Am Games will, to you, make you believe others agree with you. And the comments don't bear that out either. I can't speak to other articles that BTHarner may have read, but in reading these, I understand what he's talking about that these comments seems like they're coming from a very small cross-section of people that have probably opposed the Pan Am Games from day one. Sounds like the same type of people you have for every such event. I'm betting Londoners had some of the same opinions when they had the Olympics and it was those folks who took to posting their comments on articles such as this. So no, I'm not putting additional weight behind those who would post such things as if they represent more of a majority than it would seem. So again, show me where in the article where people are being overly negative ABOUT THE CEREMONY. Not the same boilerplate objections that get posted about every event. Show me where people are looking at this ceremony with the same scrutiny and negative analysis that you have provided? You can't, can you. Because very few people - if anyone - are considered it such a damnation against Toronto an the overall event. You keep preaching how the visible details are so important. Again, I'm not doubting they are important to you, but I think you continue to over-estimate how important they are to other people. You are correct in the fact that people have probably formed some strong opinions with regard to the event based on whether or not taxpayer money should have been spent and if this was a wise investment in the first place. But those opinions were probably formed a long time ago and are not likely to be heavily swayed over what - to most everyone else - is the minor details of the overall event. If there's a Toronto native (or a non-native) who didn't want them to spend on the Pan Am Games, then of course that person is going to look at almost everything he/she sees in a negative light. Still, that comes from an overall feeling rather than a specific viewpoint on this particular ceremony where they say "this is terrible, what is Toronto doing?" And in terms of promotion, we know there are some conflicting reports on ticket sales. The thing is though, if you are planning on attending the event, chances are you're not going to have a sudden change of heart and not attend now. You keep talking about unfavorable stories in the media, but I don't see that. Nor have you shown me otherwise. Now you may be correct in your sense that these games are no big deal, but again, that's a separate matter altogether. You continue to conflate these different concepts as if they are one in the same. They're not. 1 last thing.. when you talk about paying additional money on tickets, is that to mean you think Toronto residents should get tickets for free since it's their tax dollars that got spent? How is that different from any of these types of events? How many billions of dollars get spent on an Olympics or a World Cup. Do people get tickets for free there? Are they going through the favelas in Rio handing out tickets because all the poor folk there have to see construction of stadiums nearby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throne Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Quaker.....you are - most certainly - a quacker. You have NO argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Quaker.....you are - most certainly - a quacker. You have NO argument Whatever. But please, continue to convince us of what we all know is not true and what no one else out there seems to agree with you on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTHarner Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Look who is calling the vase Ming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throne Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 This is why persons like yourselves must NEVER be associated with any future, serious (if that can be achieved) bid for the Olympics from Toronto. You cannot distance your emotions from the truth and follow a trajectory of logical reasoning as you have so eloquently and vividly shown. You have been repeatedly, explicitly, overtly, clearly presented with explanations as it relates to WHY Toronto is struggling with ticket sales in the context of a sporting event that isn't fully appreciated in the hemisphere in which it is located. Would someone be so kind as to compare the ticket sales of Guadalajara and Rio to Toronto at this stage - if you can? EVEN IF TORONTO'S TICKET SALES ARE BETTER THIS MUST BE UNDERSTOOD WITHIN CONTEXT (KINDLY NOTE CAPITALS --> kindly renote that the message preceding this one is in capitals). Moreover, the hosting of the games in RIO signalled a turn around in interest in these games of sorts. Certainly, Rio was and still is indexed as a profile raising point of the Pan Ams. Since they managed to achieve that, it was most effectively used as a convincing buttress in their bid for the Olympics. Clearly, Guadalajara built on that and I was honestly surprised at what Guadalajara was able to achieve. Toronto appears to have been resting on its laurels too much. I dare say that should Guadalajara enter a race with Toronto for a more serious event - it would put it quite a credible performance and may even spring a surprise. So, alas, you are NOT MATURE ENOUGH to be real. The fact that you must consistently resort to various visual aids to attempt to make an emphatic point ( you sit on a throne of lies....yada yada.applauding..bro thingy) I think, most accurately, specifies your maturity levels. The people of your stunning city will not allow their intellect to be insulted. Unfortunately, the attempt has been made - and successfully so - on several occasions preceding the opening of the Pan Ams. Having said that, the games can still be a success OR they can still be a failure. Because of the what has been presented so far to the public, the needle is leaning slightly towards..... The Toronto people have worked hard - I am sure. But there has been, unfortunately, very important areas which have been neglected and which are crucial to the promotion of the event. The Toronto people must ask themselves these questions: WHY is Toronto hosting this event? What is the PRIME Reason? WHAT is the perception of these games among the population of Toronto, and WHY is that perception dominant? IS there something/anything (DEAR GOD) we have done to sustain/increase/diminish this dominant perception? Can we, a year from now, index this event as having been successful and having contributed to the image of the city? This requires extraordinarily honest reflective skill....the likes of which, I'm afraid, many of the posters on this thread do not have. yours honestly, Throne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I plead of everyone in this group, specifically Quaker, to stop entertaining this fool and just move on 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 The comments beneath any Pan Am Games article in that paper all always the same, written by the same people over and over. They used to tick me off with their worn out rhetoric, but then I decided they are just a bunch of people who don't like sports and complain constantly about their politicians. To judge the impending success or failure on 20 comments (don't know the exact number since I ignore them), which may or may not have been written by 20 different people is just preposterous. You will never find a greater hive of scum and villainy than the comments section for a newspaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinXTC Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 I plead of everyone in this group, specifically Quaker, to stop entertaining this fool and just move on Exactly! People couldn't stop and ignore a certain wanker who made so many ridiculous claims, and here's this guy and people still keep on bitching about the things he says and how he says them. For those that continue to humor him or pay him any attention, you're the ones that are ending up looking like the fools here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throne Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Exactly! People couldn't stop and ignore a certain wanker who made so many ridiculous claims, and here's this guy and people still keep on bitching about the things he says and how he says them. For those that continue to humor him or pay him any attention, you're the ones that are ending up looking like the fools here. No...I actually consider persons such as yourself Latin ...to be the shimmering example of a fool. You and ofan, who, due to the constraints of knowledge about this particular topic, can do nothing better. Make no mistake, while I may appear to be savagely harsh in some of my contributions to Quaker and BT, I can actually follow their trajectory of reasoning and in some instances (though I insist quite a few), their arguments are valid. There is a mature conversational context, albeit understated, that exists between them and me. Of course, they may perceive of this rather differently, but I declare publicly that all things aside, they are wonderful conversationalists, though a bit off track in some of their reasonings as I certainly am in some of mine. Nevertheless, I prefer to engage with them and can only hope that the continue to engage with me.....at this level. Do have a most pleasant day Throne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistercorporate Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Why I fathom that what you gentlemen have been saying is rather solocious. Betwixt, I shall cordially attempt to extricate myself from this thread as long as thine pompous weirdo continues to post a plethora of this pretentious diatribe. So ergo, I bid a coloquial adieu in the same juxtaposed vein as our verbose friend over here while I go wax my jacuzzi... Oh, and do have yourselves a most salubrious day! Ta-ta! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throne Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Why I fathom that what you gentlemen have been saying is rather solocious. Betwixt, I shall cordially attempt to extricate myself from this thread as long as thine pompous weirdo continues to post a plethora of this pretentious diatribe. So ergo, I bid a coloquial adieu in the same juxtaposed vein as our verbose friend over here while I go wax my jacuzzi... Oh, and do have yourselves a most salubrious day! Ta-ta! LOLOLOL.....In all decent things I beseech you, destitute stranger, do not this hour uttereth those damned things from your lips - unless you yourself have, in complete abandon, bestowed such unworthiness upon thine own head - and in your own delight of such grave madness, do spit forth the most defiling dirt which MUST BE only deserving of a place in the chamber pot upon which your master's arse do dwell, if only to appease his the fermenting depths of his bowels ......temporarily. Great sport misincorporate! LOLOLO!!!! Yours most graciously, Throne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throne Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Review update: Aces: The you tube videos (official) of the Torch relays are very well done. While still a tad bit too early, the crowds are encouraging. stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.